Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Aug 2, 2015 14:54:02 GMT -5
Some of it sounds flat out wrong, some of it sounds like a good idea.
I don't agree with the concept "connecting" being the response to disciplinary problems.
But I do agree that you should give children a choice where possible. And I think it's a good idea to respect their personal space, and not assume they want to be picked up or touched. But I do think that's silly for a infant or baby. But once they're old enough to talk, I think it's ok to ask if they want to be picked up and touched before doing so.
Giving them choices in what to wear is fine too.
The one about taking pictures and posting them was kind of silly too. A 1 year old isn't going to understand or appreciate what taking a picture means.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 17:34:18 GMT -5
Many things on that list just sound wacky to me. My first problem is what "rights of children". Many of the things listed aren't rights I have as an adult. I don't have a "right" to not be laughed at. I don't have a "right" to not be talked about, as if I weren't there. I may have some "rights" about where my image is used, but that doesn't stop my SM from posting bad pictures of me on facebook. These kids may find things very difficult when they get a job in fast food and their manager hands them a uniform, clearly infringing on their "right" to wear what they want.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 2, 2015 20:33:12 GMT -5
I can see some logic behind a few of these points, but not much. Like the one about taking things from kids. Taking something just because we can probably doesn't set the best precedent -- especially when we tell them not to take things from others. But DQ has it spot on that if the item is dangerous, there may not be time for reason.
The "don't pick kids up" is interesting. I remember a friend's 4 year old getting incredibly angry because we helped her on an escalator. He explained to me that she freaked out because she is trying to be independent and wants to do it herself, and we totally took that away from her. Makes sense I guess.
The point about how kids lack of rights comes as compensation for softer responsibilities is a good one. I may explain to the kid why we are leaving the park as we are leaving or after we've left. But it isn't a negotiation.
I realize I'm living in the wrong universe for this, but people in general are far too free with their damn cameras.
But y'all don't ever have to worry about me breeding. My great genes, and my line will die with me.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Aug 2, 2015 22:27:26 GMT -5
I agree with most of the ideas in the article, in broad theory. The overriding theme of "rights of children" though had me SMH.
I never really thought about some of these things in the same way the author does. Yes, newborns and babies need touch, so I picked them up and held them often. But from the very beginning I talked to the babies, as I did things, telling them what I was doing, chattering to them, acting as if I was having a conversation with them in response to their gurgles and coos and facial expressions. I would ask questions like "Do you want to get up now?" It is really not long before they can indicate "up".
I tried to let the kids make choices, but I naturally limited it to things appropriate for them: this snack or that, would you like to wear this shirt, what should we play now? I did ask them to give me things I didn't want them to have, if it wasn't incredibly dangerous; generally they would. I also tried to proactively remove dangerous items from their range, so they weren't unnecessarily tempted, and could wander freely without hearing "No" from me all the time. I tried to model the positive behavior I wanted them to learn, asking not grabbing, please and thank you, no hitting one another. I also tried to explain in a simple, age-appropriate way WHY we do or don't do something. E.g., we don't hit one another; you don't like to get hit, do you? Then other people wouldn't like it, either, would they? I tried to get them to think of others in addition to themselves, I encouraged cooperation as well as independence.
We let the kids try things, even if things might not come out quite right, so they learned not to be afraid of failure, and learn from it. We let them experiment, explore interests, learn from consequences.
We've laughed at and with the kids all the time, but I like to think we've shown them it is good natured, and not mocking in nature. Life is more enjoyable if you can find the humor and joy in it, and we encourage that. We laugh at ourselves, too. Oh, yeah, and telling funny anecdotes about each other is just sharing that with friends and extended family, too. Nobody is off limits, but we do respect each other's feelings; I wouldn't share something if one of the kids didn't want me to.
I don't really do FB and don't have a smart phone, so I'm not taking and posting pix all over the place. I do feel that others are totally oversharing. We have limited pix of the kids online, from security concerns due to DH's previous work. I'm also sensitive to privacy issues regarding posting pix of patrons at work w/o written permission.
This weekend we were camping with the two youngest boys, and I drove the cat out to stay with DD3 while we were gone. The cat hates car rides, and whined pitifully the whole way. I found myself murmuring soothingly to him just as I would a newborn, telling him I knew how terrible it was, he'd be ok, try to settle down and sleep... Our last night of camping, DS5 (who is 10) was having a rough night - sunburn where he'd missed with the sunscreen, overtired from hours of playing soccer and staying up late watching an outdoor movie, probably too many snacks, uncomfortable on the ground - so woke up crying/whining in the middle of the night. DH got a bit snappish when it carried on too long, and told DS5 to stop crying. It's been quite a while since we've had to deal with little ones crying, but my default response again told me to soothe him, try to distract from his unhappy thoughts, get him to relax, which DH's barked order did not achieve. I guess I'm trying to say that for me it is not whether I tell children (or pitiful cats) not to cry, but rather the tone of voice used to help them stop themselves. I don't think it is wrong to ask them to stop crying, but ordering them is, if you KWIM?
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 3, 2015 5:01:34 GMT -5
Lord... I need to send this article to a few Haitian mothers. LOL!
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 3, 2015 13:04:18 GMT -5
To respond to some of the comments here:
There's a big difference between picking up a toddler-4 year old who doesn't want to be picked up, and not picking up a baby until you receive permission from that baby. Some of the people who say it matters what the thing is that the child has...definitely. The author of the story thinks you shouldn't take away scissors or knives from your child...you just ask for them back.
I agree with quince, it is important to treat children like people. It is not important to treat children like a dictatorial ruler. A child is not a possession, but the phone they have in their hand is my possession. I'm going to be responsible if the knife you took ends up plunged into your little brother's neck. I can't wait all day until you decide you're "ready" to leave the playground (yes giving a little leeway to ride the slide 1 more time is nice...but if you go by the article you can't set the leave time, you have to talk it out).
IMO the article wants to make a point about not treating your children as if they are your possessions, but goes way too far in the other direction by forcing parents to become the possession of their children.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Aug 3, 2015 14:43:49 GMT -5
To respond to some of the comments here:
There's a big difference between picking up a toddler-4 year old who doesn't want to be picked up, and not picking up a baby until you receive permission from that baby. Some of the people who say it matters what the thing is that the child has...definitely. The author of the story thinks you shouldn't take away scissors or knives from your child...you just ask for them back.
I agree with quince, it is important to treat children like people. It is not important to treat children like a dictatorial ruler. A child is not a possession, but the phone they have in their hand is my possession. I'm going to be responsible if the knife you took ends up plunged into your little brother's neck. I can't wait all day until you decide you're "ready" to leave the playground (yes giving a little leeway to ride the slide 1 more time is nice...but if you go by the article you can't set the leave time, you have to talk it out).
IMO the article wants to make a point about not treating your children as if they are your possessions, but goes way too far in the other direction by forcing parents to become the possession of their children.
I think that the author neglected to include teaching her children about considering and respecting the rights of others. Leading by example is a good first step, but I think kids need some explanation, too, about thinking beyond yourself. The Golden rule is a good one for kids to judge by.
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Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 3, 2015 15:31:32 GMT -5
They walk among us! ... *ahem* ... Sorry. Back to your high-minded discussion.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Aug 3, 2015 16:01:03 GMT -5
I made my last post from a smartphone I took off a kid without asking, after picking him up without permission, and placing him in time out. I then laughed maniacally about it and then said to DW right in front of said kid "I just took this kid's phone". ETA: I wonder how many people will "like" my last post based on the statement it contains that I'm not reproducing...
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 3, 2015 17:31:58 GMT -5
Was it a decision thrust upon you by nature or by your own preference? Either way, who cares - just take the "like"!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Aug 3, 2015 21:01:18 GMT -5
I just realized this explains the kid continually kicking the back of my seat on the plane trip home. I couldn't figure out why the mom kept saying, "Bradley, please stop kicking the seat. Bradley, let's have a dialog about why kicking the seat isn't appropriate. Bradley, please put down that juice so that we can discuss positive alternatives to throwing the juice. Bradley, may I have permission to take the juice from you? Now I'm all wet and purple, Bradley; you aren't respecting my rights as your caregiver. Bradley, let's dialog about why you're still kicking the seat. ..." And when the stewardess showed up: "No, we're perfectly fine. Please step back two paces, you're violating my son's personal space. Yes, I'm aware there's juice on the ceiling, but your microagressions are violating my right to a positive space. Let's dialog about why talking about a child without his consent is a violation of his human rights. ..."
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Aug 4, 2015 0:10:01 GMT -5
Kids need rules and boundaries because the world isn't going to cater to their "I'm a special snowflake and I can do whatever I want" perspective. You can do that and still explain why your kid can't do X or needs to do Y. except that's not exactly true. there are plenty of people who do whatever they want without any regard for consequences and depending on how lucky they are, they might actually come out ahead. I think kids need rules and boundaries bc they crave them. bc otherwise the world gets too scary for them. And I think kids really do want guidance bc it gets too hard for them otherwise.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 0:22:50 GMT -5
ummmm, I disagree. But I don't really feel like putting any energy into the argument. I taught my kids and grandkids (I think) critical thinking skills. They can make their own arguments
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Aug 4, 2015 10:53:05 GMT -5
Hmm, maybe that's where having an only or homeschooling is the best. You have 2 competing for your attention and interacting with each other, all bets are off. We would never get anywhere on time and dressed if I left it up to the kids. The 2 yo would be barefoot and in only a diaper most of the time. He would get terrible diaper rash, as he rarely wants to get his diaper changed. The 5 yo is tired of getting dressed "all of the time", so he'd go around in his pj's. We might make it to school on time 1 day of the week. I suppose I should go read the article. . I'm sure I'm doing everything all wrong. Ditto. Based on the comments we've had posted here so far, I AM doing everything wrong.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Aug 4, 2015 11:33:35 GMT -5
I've embraced being a crappy parent. If I wasn't a crappy parent then who would people be able to look their noses down to and tell others not to follow that example?
I am providing a public service.
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