billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jul 31, 2015 16:51:48 GMT -5
No, did I post something inadvertently awesome? You offered one of basic principles of it, teaching kids to make choices through options. You might want to check out Love and Logic.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 16:51:52 GMT -5
Honey. I don't think the list was talking about 'brush it off' as far as picking up a baby. I think the meant do not hold a baby unless they have indicate their permission for you to pick them up.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 31, 2015 17:03:12 GMT -5
IDK, I, too, had trouble determining if the article was serious or a parody... It's a good example of Poe's Law ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law) Generally, I'm all for giving kids a 'choice' - but you need to LIMIT the number of things they are choosing between. If you need your kid to put on their shoes - you don't ask them which of the 10 pairs of shoes they own they want to wear (cause you are assuming they know which pair is appropriate). You tell them to choose between TWO parent approved pairs. I totally get that kids should have a choice in who they hug or don't hug etc... and that a parent needs to help them with the appropriate behavior/what to say/how to do it maybe many many many times over during their young lives. I do think that kids do need to have limited/controlled/supervised interactions with potentially dangerous things - mostly so they don't become 10 year olds who EXPECT their food to be cut up for them so they can then eat it. Again, I do think the article has some merit... kids LEARN how to act/behave appropriately thru PRACTICE. Sometimes just watching someone do it isn't enough they need some coaching (so some explaination of WHY a behavior or action is to be done or why they have to choose between 2 pairs of brown colored shoes and not the white or black ones). Just saying I think there's some "truth" in the article, but it comes across as farce.
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jul 31, 2015 17:13:50 GMT -5
on the "Telling them to stop crying" point...
Pretty much the only kids I've ever heard told to 'stop crying' were the one's who were really good at controlling their parents.... so 'crying' as a last ditch effort by the kid to get their way - would result in 80% of the time them getting their way. The other 20% of the time the parent had been pushed too far or was just too cranky or the kid was pushing for something outrageous (because the kid was tired/hungry/angry/emotionally overwhelmed) and the parent couldn't take the crying AND wasn't gonna give the kid what they wanted... and so would usually snap "stop crying!" at the kid. Usually the parent would "win" this battle - mostly because whatever the kid was 'crying' about wasn't gonna happen in this Universe.
Maybe parents tell their kid to stop 'crying' more often in private for stuff that really matters to the kid? Don't know.
FWIW: I wonder what dinner time looks like at the household in the article. I bet if there is more than one kid - Mom's a short order cook because I'm guessing she's making separate dinners for each kid.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 31, 2015 17:14:05 GMT -5
I would have gone to the bug museum.
We did go. The tarantulas were downright cuddly compared to the fish tank full of cockroaches.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 17:16:56 GMT -5
Yeah. I don't tell my kids to stop crying or whining. But at a certain age I might have told them that tantrum behavior is unacceptable where we currently are and if they do not choose to stop, I will not be asking for permission to pick them up and carry them out.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 31, 2015 17:22:44 GMT -5
Yeah. I don't tell my kids to stop crying or whining. But at a certain age I might have told them that tantrum behavior is unacceptable where we currently are and if they do not choose to stop, I will not be asking for permission to pick them up and carry them out. I've been doing that since DS turned 3. By around 3-4 they should know what's expected of them regarding behavior. I also take other factors into account when there is a meltdown (fatigue, hunger, boredom) and address them when possible. Except I don't tolerate tantrums ANYWHERE - not even at home. I tell DS repeatedly to tell me what's wrong until he does. If he continues to act out, I either put him in time out or carry him out if we're out.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 17:26:34 GMT -5
Do you make your kid brush their hair occasionally if they don't want to?
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 31, 2015 17:36:48 GMT -5
No, did I post something inadvertently awesome? You offered one of basic principles of it, teaching kids to make choices through options. You might want to check out Love and Logic. Ah. I've read a few parenting books. Will have to request that one from my library. My holy grail is Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk.Also Unconditional Parenting. I try not to be an overboard hippie but somewhere in the middle between a door mat and a military brat.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 31, 2015 17:38:42 GMT -5
Do you make your kid brush their hair occasionally if they don't want to? Half the time I don't even remember, lol. But when I do, I do it. I try to make it quick and painless - usually I'll tell him I need to do 10 brushes, and make sure I brush his hair in exactly 10 strokes.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 17:41:37 GMT -5
I tend to be very child centered. I definitely believe in choices and natural consequences and talking about reasons. But this family always makes me understand my line is closer than I like to think. The toddlers always have rat nest matted hair and I don't know if I could have done that? ...
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Jul 31, 2015 17:41:55 GMT -5
Sounds like the author has a difficult time determining differences between adults and children.
I want my five minutes back.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 31, 2015 17:45:20 GMT -5
Do you make your kid brush their hair occasionally if they don't want to? Hair? No. Teeth, yes. I pick my battles.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Jul 31, 2015 17:46:13 GMT -5
Sounds like the author has a difficult time determining differences between adults and children. I want my five minutes back. Because... they are both people with feelings.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 31, 2015 17:47:11 GMT -5
Kids need rules and boundaries because the world isn't going to cater to their "I'm a special snowflake and I can do whatever I want" perspective. You can do that and still explain why your kid can't do X or needs to do Y.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 31, 2015 18:22:24 GMT -5
I agree with some of the ideas, but the tone is too much for me. Kids ARE people. They are not objects. They are developing people, though, and to me, that means paying attention to them and adjusting how much freedom/input you give them appropriately, instead of assuming they deserve/need none. (Or treating them like very small autonomous adults.) And respect costs nothing but effort, so fucking give them respect. Don't pick them up/hug them/dress them in ways they do not want unless there is actually a good reason, and "I don't like pink and orange together" is a shit reason. It is 20 below zero outside and shorts are not appropriate is a good reason. I definitely ask my kid for things first...even if I didn't care about how he felt, I don't want to model that snatching things away is a good behavior. If an object is dangerous, but he is not behaving in an extremely risky fashion, I will take the time to try to coax it away from him instead of snatching. I talk about him in front of him, but not so much differently than I do my husband...but I probably should pay closer attention to that. It's not a right not to be laughed at, but you should pay attention to how the way you treat someone makes them feel, child or adult. You are not OBLIGATED to, but if you laugh at someone and ignore that it hurts their feelings, you are an asshole. I do work on getting my son to let me change his diaper. It's one of those things...I give him time to come around, but the time is not unlimited, and it is influenced by other circumstances. (like, for instance, leakage.) My kid loves his photo taken. If he didn't, I wouldn't. My parents absolutely respected me NOT liking photos taken as a kid. (Thank you mom and dad!) Dunno about time out yet. Treating kids like people is incredibly important to me. Their feelings matter. Their opinions matter. Sometimes I will absolutely override what my son wants ( I brush his teeth every day. He does not want this. I try to make it brief and as non-intrusive as possible, and I take time to coax him, because even if I DIDN'T give a shit what he felt, having him dread tooth brushing is not a good long-term dental strategy.) Before we even had kids, my husband and I agreed that what we would try to respect our children as individuals, adjusting our approach as needed, but generally defaulting to allowing more autonomy rather than less. Hypothetical situations like opting in/out of vacations and activities were brought up, and yes, we do lean toward kids getting to say no. Maybe that means the family doesn't all go to Hawaii. Maybe one parent stays with the opt-out kid, and the other goes. Yes, this means our lives will adjust to what our kids want and we won't be able to just bulldoze over them. I'm OK with that, especially for optional crap like vacations, stylish clothing, and event attendance. They get to deal with us coaxing, but finally exercising authority when it comes to medical situations, safety, and budget.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 18:53:44 GMT -5
My brother has stairstep kids. As they got old enough to walk and use the potty, I would keep them overnight or for several nights in a row fairly often. I learned quickly that yelling scared them half to death. I don't run around yelling at kids, but if one is running toward the street or something, i'll yell for them to stop while I'm running to catch him or her. I'd also yell at an adult that's stepping into the street in front of a car. But their Mom had 4 kids and always spoke softly to them, never raised her voice at them. I admired her restraint and patience.
I had to always be mindful not to terrorize my nieces and nephews by raising my voice to get their immediate attention when they were at my house.
Lucky for me, they figured out that if I slipped and raised my voice it didn't mean I was going crazy and the world wasn't about to end. I swear I don't know how you can raise four kids and never yell.
I think the article makes some good points, some of it is a bit much.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 31, 2015 18:55:03 GMT -5
IMO input and autonomy is learned and they get more input/autonomy as they get older and understand their choice making abilities better. I never thought to ask my son to let me change his diaper - I just did it because that's what you do. He hated it sometimes but it's either that or horrible diaper rash (which he got often). Potty training has been a combination of asking, coaxing, and "making". DS would sit in his own waste for hours if that meant he'd never stop playing, and I'm not going to spend half the day cleaning pee/poop off the floor because he didn't feel like going to the potty. But that's me. I'm not a granola mom.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jul 31, 2015 19:23:06 GMT -5
...I'm not a "granola" mom either. My son has never had diaper rash, and he comes and sits down to get his diaper changed when I ask. Sometimes he brings me the diaper. If he decides NOT to come, I give him a minute, ask again, then grab him and change him.
You don't automatically let them make every decision. You give them opportunities to make decisions. These are not the same things.
If I had a kid who liked to sit in his poop, or who never came when I asked him to come to get a diaper change, he would still get his diaper changed because I am not a neglectful parent. Of COURSE input/autonomy is learned. The point (to me...not sure about the author of the article...) is not to assume your kid can't make a decision. My child DOES come when I ask him to get his diaper changed. If I never asked, I wouldn't know that, and he wouldn't have an opportunity to make a good decision.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 31, 2015 19:27:38 GMT -5
Okay, that makes sense. Sounds like the article was saying more of "kids should make evert decision".
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 31, 2015 19:45:05 GMT -5
Hmm, maybe that's where having an only or homeschooling is the best. You have 2 competing for your attention and interacting with each other, all bets are off. We would never get anywhere on time and dressed if I left it up to the kids. The 2 yo would be barefoot and in only a diaper most of the time. He would get terrible diaper rash, as he rarely wants to get his diaper changed. The 5 yo is tired of getting dressed "all of the time", so he'd go around in his pj's. We might make it to school on time 1 day of the week. I suppose I should go read the article. . I'm sure I'm doing everything all wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 20:35:25 GMT -5
Call me a terrible Mommy- I went back to work when he was 6 weeks old so I'm used to it- but I actually let DS make his own decisions on meds when he was 5. He had an ear infection- rare for him- and balked when I handed him the antibiotic and the OTC decongestant and pain relievers the doc recommended.
I told him the antibiotic was non-negotiable. I explained the functions of the other two and left the decision on those to him. He took one of them and we were both happy. Lesson he learned at a very early age: it's your body and you get to use some of your own judgment about what goes into it.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 31, 2015 20:58:03 GMT -5
Hmm, maybe that's where having an only or homeschooling is the best. You have 2 competing for your attention and interacting with each other, all bets are off. We would never get anywhere on time and dressed if I left it up to the kids. The 2 yo would be barefoot and in only a diaper most of the time. He would get terrible diaper rash, as he rarely wants to get his diaper changed. The 5 yo is tired of getting dressed "all of the time", so he'd go around in his pj's. We might make it to school on time 1 day of the week. I suppose I should go read the article. . I'm sure I'm doing everything all wrong. Eh, okay I read it now. I guess I'm not that bad after all. I do try to listen to my kids and their cues. Sometimes, however, I have to step in and be the executive. . (Believe me, left to their own devices, my kids would love to be the not so benevolent dictator of the house.) Time out, however, seems fine to me. That one seems sort of ridiculous. I do I take away sharp things, but if it isn't a danger, I'll ask instead. The diaper thing, though. I try to follow my kid's cues, but sometimes you just gotta make him. Mornings are tough. One kid wakes up too early, while the other is happy to hang in his crib half the morning. I'm not sure what the purpose of this article is. Is it supposed to be sort of lighthearted or serious? Maybe the British style is throwing me off.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jul 31, 2015 22:40:49 GMT -5
I think it just depends on the kids. I read the list and think the author must not have had difficult children. If my older 2 had a knife and I asked for it back, they would have given it to me, no problem. My youngest, well there is a good chance he takes off running with the knife because he doesn't want to give it up.
With timeouts, my oldest never needed them. My middle child though, there is no loving her out of a tantrum. All additional attention does is set her off more and any physical interaction results in her trying to scratch or kick you. She absolutely needed time outs because she needed to be alone to calm herself down. Youngest isn't quite at that age yet, so will we see with him.
And newborns need to be held, they want to be held. No reason to ask permission for something so important at that age. As they get older it makes sense.
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MarleyKeezy78
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Post by MarleyKeezy78 on Aug 1, 2015 1:15:59 GMT -5
I made you, I make the rules! Mind you, my kid is pretty spoiled but if you are running around with something I don't want you to have I will take it from you. He gets his input a ton but I do lay down the law sometimes on some of the things on the list.
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Spellbound454
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Post by Spellbound454 on Aug 1, 2015 4:16:57 GMT -5
Its supposed to be serious. I'm British and have never heard of this woman but there are a plethora of books on how to raise your kids with alternative thinking. You would think no-one had ever raised a child before...... and not that we have been doing it successfully for generations, over millennia. Its a wonder that the human race has survived without all this knit-your-own-yoghurt stuff.
2 year olds can be naughty....They have discovered they have autonomy and can use the word "No" They can be very disruptive to a household.
...but they don't rule the roost, the adult is in charge.
So get the nappy changed, take the knife off them (before they kill something)... and if they punch their sister, they go on the naughty step.(I min for every year of their life) and have consideration for the rest of the family, whose lifestyle the toddler is fitting in to... and not vice versa.
Children need a structure in which to grow up safely. They need boundaries, routines, regular mealtimes and enough sleep.
I think most parents already know this......and are doing just fine.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 1, 2015 9:00:01 GMT -5
The ones that aren't we see their kids acting up in public places while their parents ignore them.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Aug 1, 2015 9:12:45 GMT -5
I'm somewhere in the middle of "my way or the highway" and "complete and total free-range parenting". It depends upon the situation. I agree that they deserve respect and that, barring a medical need or emergency, some control over their own bodies, but they don't get to run amok and leave a trail of chaos and/or hurt feelings. I'm trying to raise good and good-hearted, critical-thinking, adventurous, compassionate children. Of course, that will mean I will have to rein in some of their free will. Oh well, too bad, so sad. Other people deserve respect, as well. There is a constant give and take, a balancing, that goes on in life. We don't need a world of privileged, entitled, self-centered brats, but we also don't need a world of robotic followers. I wasn't brave enough as a parent to let my kids figure it out on their own. Besides, I wanted an opportunity to finally rule my own little fiefdom...err, umm...family. And make room on the "farce or serious" bench for me, although I read it as farce.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Aug 1, 2015 9:47:13 GMT -5
Yeah, it seems like most of these new child raising philosophies take decent core ideas to an absurd level. Like, it's important to establish secure attachment, but that doesn't require physical attachment 24-7. Or, it's important to pay attention to your kids feelings, but not so much that they dictate everything.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Aug 2, 2015 12:37:53 GMT -5
We do a lot of these things (though in a less extreme way) but I strongly agree with Angel!, the kid matters. If you're being so considerate of their rights, you should also understand there isn't only one correct answer or approach.
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