djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 31, 2015 20:25:06 GMT -5
I said at best yes, you did. oh, Happy New Year, oped. it has been a pleasure posting with you.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 31, 2015 21:09:58 GMT -5
Trump represents at best what, 16% of the public? At best. about half that. 27% are registered Republicans, 40% like Trump, and 60% of them are committed. that is roughly 1/4 of 27% or 8%. So... anybody who isn't a registered Republican isn't "represented" by Mr. Trump, anybody registered Republican who prefers one of the other candidates isn't represented by Mr. Trump, and anybody not fully committed to Mr. Trump isn't represented by Mr. Trump? The kicker is that if we ran the same calculation for all the candidates in both parties and added the results, we'd wind up with a number less than 20%, meaning that fewer than 1 in 5 Americans is actually "represented" by any of the candidates vying to lead America's representative government. Man, you're cynical. Also, 27/4 < 7. Just... as a helpful hint from a concerned citizen.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 31, 2015 21:59:10 GMT -5
i would hope that everyone that supports Trump would read that link, and come to grips with it's implications. The problem is that factcheck.org has been repeatedly discredited which means even if they're right- it no longer matters to anyone with a brain because they're dismissed out of hand as the leftwing partisan hack outfit that they are. ObamaCare 'fact checking' in particular ruined the entire 'fact checking' scam- it's always been a scam, but ObamaCare and the Josh Gruber revelations were the end.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 31, 2015 22:02:10 GMT -5
You do realize Obama was elected and re-elected? fuck that example. let's use 2004, instead. 1996 qualifies as well. My overall point is that it's silly to dismiss the fact that there are in fact enough out to lunch, misinformed, and outright crazy people that vote.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2015 22:03:27 GMT -5
Paul, notice what factcheck does that your sources never seem to do? Includes links and source material so you can check their conclusions...
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 1, 2016 9:29:26 GMT -5
A fear that Fox News and right wing nutters work very hard to keep whipped to a froth You do realize Fox News has been at war with Trump from the beginning. He is not their choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2016 9:48:10 GMT -5
An irony that gives me no little pleasure, as he is a manifestation of the fear they and their ilk have whipped to a froth.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 1, 2016 11:18:57 GMT -5
An irony that gives me no little pleasure, as he is a manifestation of the fear they and their ilk have whipped to a froth. Would that be fear of climate change, fear of guns, fear of conservatives waging war on women, fear of revisions to historical textbooks, fear of white privilege, fear of the Confederate flag, fear of privatized social security, fear of speech denouncing LGBTism, fear of cuts to social welfare, fear of women being oppressed in the workforce, or fear of "right wing nutters" exerting their influence through the democratic process? I lose track sometimes.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 1, 2016 11:49:11 GMT -5
An irony that gives me no little pleasure, as he is a manifestation of the fear they and their ilk have whipped to a froth. Would that be fear of climate change, fear of guns, fear of conservatives waging war on women, fear of revisions to historical textbooks, fear of white privilege, fear of the Confederate flag, fear of privatized social security, fear of speech denouncing LGBTism, fear of cuts to social welfare, fear of women being oppressed in the workforce, or fear of "right wing nutters" exerting their influence through the democratic process? I lose track sometimes. Wooooo Hooo Virgil Good One!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2016 12:25:59 GMT -5
An irony that gives me no little pleasure, as he is a manifestation of the fear they and their ilk have whipped to a froth. Would that be fear of climate change, fear of guns, fear of conservatives waging war on women, fear of revisions to historical textbooks, fear of white privilege, fear of the Confederate flag, fear of privatized social security, fear of speech denouncing LGBTism, fear of cuts to social welfare, fear of women being oppressed in the workforce, or fear of "right wing nutters" exerting their influence through the democratic process? I lose track sometimes. Do those things scare you V? Do they have you talking about the end of times and arming yourself?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 1, 2016 15:10:45 GMT -5
about half that. 27% are registered Republicans, 40% like Trump, and 60% of them are committed. that is roughly 1/4 of 27% or 8%. So... anybody who isn't a registered Republican isn't "represented" by Mr. Trump, anybody registered Republican who prefers one of the other candidates isn't represented by Mr. Trump, and anybody not fully committed to Mr. Trump isn't represented by Mr. Trump? The kicker is that if we ran the same calculation for all the candidates in both parties and added the results, we'd wind up with a number less than 20%, meaning that fewer than 1 in 5 Americans is actually "represented" by any of the candidates vying to lead America's representative government. Man, you're cynical. Also, 27/4 < 7. Just... as a helpful hint from a concerned citizen. yeah, fuzzy math there. but for the record, i was pointing out that only 7% were COMMITTED to him at this juncture. that is according to polls.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 1, 2016 15:12:27 GMT -5
i would hope that everyone that supports Trump would read that link, and come to grips with it's implications. The problem is that factcheck.org has been repeatedly discredited which means even if they're right- it no longer matters to anyone with a brain because they're dismissed out of hand as the leftwing partisan hack outfit that they are. ObamaCare 'fact checking' in particular ruined the entire 'fact checking' scam- it's always been a scam, but ObamaCare and the Josh Gruber revelations were the end. actually, i would not describe them as "left wing hack". the best critique of factcheck i have ever seen came from the loopy lefty Maddow. they do their job poorly, but as you just said, it doesn't mean they are wrong in this case. they aren't.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 1, 2016 15:14:21 GMT -5
An irony that gives me no little pleasure, as he is a manifestation of the fear they and their ilk have whipped to a froth. Would that be fear of climate change, fear of guns, fear of conservatives waging war on women, fear of revisions to historical textbooks, fear of white privilege, fear of the Confederate flag, fear of privatized social security, fear of speech denouncing LGBTism, fear of cuts to social welfare, fear of women being oppressed in the workforce, or fear of "right wing nutters" exerting their influence through the democratic process? I lose track sometimes. the Power Of Nightmares has been how we govern since the 60's. i hope you are not blaming it on the left, because that is NOT where it started.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 1, 2016 15:14:41 GMT -5
Yeah, I noticed the math thing too. I just figured that picking on a Republican for his lack of math skills was just too easy....
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 1, 2016 15:27:26 GMT -5
Yeah, I noticed the math thing too. I just figured that picking on a Republican for his lack of math skills was just too easy.... groan. Happy New Year, tall.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 4, 2016 18:24:47 GMT -5
Trump's first TV ad is drawing quite a bit of attention, though not good attention. His video claims it is illegal immigrants crossing our southern border into the U.S. But not is all what it seems. The video clip in Trump's ad is actually Moroccans crossing the border from Morocco into Melilla, a Spanish enclave on the coast of Africa and surrounded by Morocco. Here is Trump's ad: And here is the video from Italian television network RepubblicaTV. The video was taken on May 3, 2014, and shows Moroccans crossing into Melilla. Trump ad shows footage of migrants in Morocco, not at 'southern border'
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 4, 2016 19:06:40 GMT -5
Here is why that campaign ad is not a complete lie: the people pictured really are immigrating. So there.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 4, 2016 22:14:10 GMT -5
Here is why that campaign ad is not a complete lie: the people pictured really are immigrating. So there. There are plenty of reasons- good reasons- to oppose the nomination of Donald Trump for GOP presidential candidate. The trouble with Trump opponents, is they ignore the low hanging fruit and reach for the nitpickiest of nonsense. Donald Trump has had more political affiliations than there have been Presidential terms since 1999. Who's to say what he really believes? Donald Trump voted for Obama. Twice. Now, he wants to clean up the Obama mess? Why any GOP voters are giving him a pass on this, I will never understand? Donald Trump defends funding Planned Parenthood because of the women's health aspect- which shows him to be either cynically unprincipled, or grossly ill-informed. Donald Trump defends other government pork like ethanol subsidies. I could go on-- and I did go on with numerous people while I manned the Ted Cruz booth at the gun show last weekend. Instead, they nab a video clip which shows what open borders looks like and complain that it's not Mexico, but Morroco? That's your Trump complaint? No wonder the guy is beating these idiot's brains in.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 4, 2016 22:23:32 GMT -5
I could go on-- and I did go on with numerous people while I manned the Ted Cruz booth at the gun show last weekend. Instead, they nab a video clip which shows what open borders looks like and complain that it's not Mexico, but Morroco? That's your Trump complaint? No wonder the guy is beating these idiot's brains in. While I have to agree that Moroccogate hits a new low in actual relevance, you realize that our local anti-Trumpers consider everything on your list to be reasons why Americans should vote for him?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 22:29:55 GMT -5
HEY! I do not support pork and ethanol subsidies Seriously I'm not for trump though... But then not for any of the other wing it's likely to get nominated to that side either... And yes, unfortunately and unbelievably, he honestly wouldn't be the worst one.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 4, 2016 22:59:23 GMT -5
HEY! I do not support pork and ethanol subsidies Seriously I'm not for trump though... But then not for any of the other wing it's likely to get nominated to that side either... And yes, unfortunately and unbelievably, he honestly wouldn't be the worst one. who would be worse. you got me curious.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2016 23:09:34 GMT -5
I'm not for the ultra conservator religious positions on women and abortion and race and sexuality etc. trump's a crazy man... But most of what he says he'll do he really can't do.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 4, 2016 23:49:42 GMT -5
I could go on-- and I did go on with numerous people while I manned the Ted Cruz booth at the gun show last weekend. Instead, they nab a video clip which shows what open borders looks like and complain that it's not Mexico, but Morroco? That's your Trump complaint? No wonder the guy is beating these idiot's brains in. While I have to agree that Moroccogate hits a new low in actual relevance, you realize that our local anti-Trumpers consider everything on your list to be reasons why Americans should vote for him?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 4, 2016 23:54:48 GMT -5
I'm not for the ultra conservator religious positions on women and abortion and race and sexuality etc. trump's a crazy man... But most of what he says he'll do he really can't do.The "wall" is already law- a matter of execution. We've also covered the legality of halting muslim immigration- again, already the law, already on the books. Those are the big two I've heard people say he "can't" do-- is there something else you think he "can't" do? The problem is that we're nearing the end of four full presidential terms- 16 years-- a generation of people under 35 who literally have no idea the president can't just do whatever the hell he or she wants. Trust me when I tell you- he can. And he will. There'll be the hue and cry, but Republicans will defend him to the end, just as Dems now defend their own lawless president.
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Post by billisonboard on Jan 5, 2016 8:53:22 GMT -5
... The problem is that we're nearing the end of four full presidential terms- 16 years-- a generation of people under 35 who literally have no idea the president can't just do whatever the hell he or she wants. Trust me when I tell you- he can. And he will. There'll be the hue and cry, but Republicans will defend him to the end, just as Dems now defend their own lawless president. I have posted this before: "On January 20th, 2009, if George Bush and Dick Cheney are not appropriately held to account this Administration will hand off a toolbox with more powers than any President has ever had, more powers than the founders could have imagined. And that box may be handed to Hillary Clinton or it may be handed to Mitt Romney or Barack Obama or someone else. But whoever gets it, one of the things we know about power is that people don't give away the tools." — John Nichols www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/profile.html and it is that much more true for January 20th, 2017. A problem I see is that the GOP in Congress have made it too personal in regards to "getting" Barack Obama. Any attempt now to rein in presidential power will be seen simply as attacking the current resident of the White House.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 5, 2016 9:11:02 GMT -5
I'm not for the ultra conservator religious positions on women and abortion and race and sexuality etc. trump's a crazy man... But most of what he says he'll do he really can't do.The "wall" is already law- a matter of execution. A wall like Trump proposes will cost an enormous amount of money. Trump claims that's ok because he'll get Mexico to pay for it. Even if we could somehow make Mexico pay for it (and we can't) that won't close up all the other ways that illegals can get into our country. So - Trump can't really eliminate illegal immigration like he claims he can. We've also covered the legality of halting muslim immigration- again, already the law, already on the books. And the UK is already investigating why the US didn't allow a family of British Muslims into the country to visit Disneyland. Pissed off our ally and - worst of all, pissed off the Mouse. Again, technically he could keep any Muslims from visiting, but the push back would be enormous, especially from business - and he would back down. So he can't do that, either. Those are the big two I've heard people say he "can't" do-- is there something else you think he "can't" do? The problem is that we're nearing the end of four full presidential terms- 16 years-- a generation of people under 35 who literally have no idea the president can't just do whatever the hell he or she wants. Trust me when I tell you- he can. And he will. There'll be the hue and cry, but Republicans will defend him to the end, just as Dems now defend their own lawless president. You may be surprised to know there are a lot of Republicans who really detest Trump and fear that he will permanently ruin the Republican party should he get elected. Go look at the polls of Republicans who claim they would not only never vote for Trump, but would be embarrassed if he got elected. There are many prominent Republican party members who have publically stated they would vote Democratic for the first time - ever - should Trump get the Republican nomination.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jan 5, 2016 9:35:11 GMT -5
Maybe someone can tell me why showing lots of people scaling a wall to get into another country is a good argument for building more of the wall in Mexico.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 5, 2016 10:18:39 GMT -5
Maybe someone can tell me why showing lots of people scaling a wall to get into another country is a good argument for building more of the wall in Mexico. In fairness, the only part of the video they actually show is the swarm crossing the trench. The barrier beyond that is a fence, not a wall. The ad is somewhat duplicitous. It gives the impression that there are swarms of aliens bum rushing the US-Mexico border in broad daylight. But the reality is that hundreds of thousands of aliens are crossing into America, even if not in the manner depicted, and what realistic 3-second clip is the ad going to show that screams "we have a problem"? There isn't one. Pretty much by definition, advertisements, movies, television shows, anything that communicates a narrative takes creative licenses in service to that narrative, and this video clip is hardly a major abuse.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 5, 2016 10:33:02 GMT -5
there is another reality, and that is that there has been no NET change in immigration, from Mexico* at least, in quite some time.
is that reality ever even mentioned?
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dondub
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Post by dondub on Jan 5, 2016 12:08:40 GMT -5
That reality is never mentioned nor is the reality that Obama has been the deporter in chief. Why let facts get in the way of trashing B. Hussein on every point imaginable.
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