ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Dec 9, 2015 16:09:03 GMT -5
How is Trump going to lead? Fire everyone? Bankrupt the country? Insult every foreign leader? He'll lead by example, and we've seen his example.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 9, 2015 16:26:02 GMT -5
We lost the country with George W Bush and Dick Cheney. Obama couldn't fight the do nothing Congress to fix everything. Rhetoric aside, is there something Congress stopped Obama from doing? This has been the go-along-to-get-along Congress. The Rubber Stamp congress. Really? I thought it was the "I'll shut the whole damn thing down if I don't get my way" congress.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 9, 2015 16:31:51 GMT -5
Donald Trump is filling the leadership void of Barrack Obama, John Boehner, and Mitch McConnell. This is what happens. Donald Trump is saying what angry white people want him to say, and chumming the waters for attention. My guess is he quits when he loses a couple primaries and insists he's not a loser because he never intended to be President. No way he would want to be POTUS and give up control of his company for 4 years, and while he claims he's for the middle class, he was born into the upper class and lives the 1% lifestyle. He won't want to give up that up in order to rub elbows with the unwashed middle class. Can you imagine the current Mrs Trump showing up for the inauguration in a cloth coat instead of one of her furs so that she can demonstrate she's 'one of the people?' Won't happen.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Dec 9, 2015 16:37:09 GMT -5
Rhetoric aside, is there something Congress stopped Obama from doing? This has been the go-along-to-get-along Congress. The Rubber Stamp congress. Really? I thought it was the "I'll shut the whole damn thing down if I don't get my way" congress. Yes and they did shut down the government. They got paid while others didn't and citizens were denied access to parks, monuments etc. Cost the government about $25B. Hey that's our money!! Thanks GOP.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 9, 2015 16:37:14 GMT -5
We lost the country when we elected Obama. ... ... we lost the country in 2001-2003. .... ... We lost the country with George W Bush and Dick Cheney. ... My two cents: We lost this country when after taking control of the world economy and developing one hell of a high standard of living, we didn't adjust our standard of living when we lost that control. Instead we declared it Morning in America and pulled out the credit card. We have been living on borrowed time/money ever since.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Dec 9, 2015 16:41:10 GMT -5
Bill. When times were good we got complacent, thinking it would always be like that. Not sure we got lazy, I didn't, but maybe many forgot the hard work and values that got us to that level.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 16:42:04 GMT -5
we did fine, up until about 1981. our debt/GDP ratio had gone from 1.1 to 0.5.
we are now back up to 1.1
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 9, 2015 17:02:19 GMT -5
we did fine, up until about 1981. our debt/GDP ratio had gone from 1.1 to 0.5. we are now back up to 1.1 Yep, it was starting to slip about then. We had a decision to make in 80 and I think that going with the smiling grandfather who assured us it would all be okay was not a good choice.
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Virgil Showlion
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[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 9, 2015 17:11:58 GMT -5
Donald Trump is saying what angry white people want him to say, and chumming the waters for attention. I'm sorry. As true as this statement may be, weren't you among the cohort balking at statements like "Pres. Obama is the black welfare voters' candidate." during the 2012 elections? That statement was statistically truer than this one, and yet I recall you condemning such statements as "racist stereotyping". If you want to make generalizations about all the angry white people out there (who have good reason to be angry, by the way), be my guest, but would you mind not chiming in during the next debate on the merits of stereotyping? You clearly don't have any problem with sweeping generalizations, and the truly ironic thing is that this particular generalization has no relevance to Mr. Trump's leadership ability or to the rest of your reply. You appear to have invoked the stereotype for no reason besides the desire to invoke the stereotype. My thanks in advance.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 9, 2015 17:19:24 GMT -5
Donald Trump is saying what angry white people want him to say, and chumming the waters for attention. I'm sorry. As true as this statement may be, weren't you among the cohort balking at statements like "Pres. Obama is the black welfare voters' candidate." during the 2012 elections? That statement was statistically truer than this one, and yet I recall you condemning such statements as "racist stereotyping". If you want to make generalizations about all the angry white people out there (who have good reason to be angry, by the way), be my guest, but would you mind not chiming in during the next debate on the merits of stereotyping? You clearly don't have any problem with sweeping generalizations, and the truly ironic thing is that this particular generalization has no relevance to Mr. Trump's leadership ability or to the rest of your reply. You appear to have invoked the stereotype for no reason besides the desire to invoke the stereotype. My thanks in advance. I don't recall that I said that, but that was 4 years ago. I've slept since then. I was stating why Trump is popular. He appeals to a certain type of person - people who feel like they are being screwed over and that the minorities are gaining the upper hand. That's why they love his anti immigration statements. I didn't say ALL white people think this way. Just some. So it's not racial stereotyping.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Dec 9, 2015 17:25:15 GMT -5
I don't see Mr. Trump as a leader, I'm afraid. I'm aware some do. I, however, see him as a narcissist. That comes closer to equating with a tyrant than with a leader. MOO
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 17:35:34 GMT -5
we did fine, up until about 1981. our debt/GDP ratio had gone from 1.1 to 0.5. we are now back up to 1.1 I have to keep reminding you: at 0% interest.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 9, 2015 17:43:21 GMT -5
I'm sorry. As true as this statement may be, weren't you among the cohort balking at statements like "Pres. Obama is the black welfare voters' candidate." during the 2012 elections? That statement was statistically truer than this one, and yet I recall you condemning such statements as "racist stereotyping". If you want to make generalizations about all the angry white people out there (who have good reason to be angry, by the way), be my guest, but would you mind not chiming in during the next debate on the merits of stereotyping? You clearly don't have any problem with sweeping generalizations, and the truly ironic thing is that this particular generalization has no relevance to Mr. Trump's leadership ability or to the rest of your reply. You appear to have invoked the stereotype for no reason besides the desire to invoke the stereotype. My thanks in advance. I don't recall that I said that, but that was 4 years ago. I've slept since then. I was stating why Trump is popular. He appeals to a certain type of person - people who feel like they are being screwed over and that the minorities are gaining the upper hand. That's why they love his anti immigration statements. I didn't say ALL white people think this way. Just some. So it's not racial stereotyping. Understood. I'm just saying that in future, somebody might feel obliged to state why Bernie Sanders (for example) is popular. He appeals to a certain type of person - blacks on welfare who feel like he could give them a bit more loving from the public purse. That's why they love his myriad "free crap for everybody" statements. The poster won't say ALL black people think this way. Just some. So it's not racial stereotyping. And you shouldn't call it that.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Dec 9, 2015 18:26:34 GMT -5
we did fine, up until about 1981. our debt/GDP ratio had gone from 1.1 to 0.5. we are now back up to 1.1 Let's consider where we might go from here. The economy shows very low inflation (and a relatively recent, slight deflation) and low-yielding 10 year Treasuries today. In 1981, inflation was high and the 10 year Treasury yields were very, very high (in the teens). Going forward, it seems inevitable that the 10 year Treasury yield will normalize. Perhaps not as rapidly as the fear mongering financial press would like everyone to swallow, but inevitably. When it happens, the debt picture will worsen. My point being that when debt/GPD was OK at 0.5 in 1981, the future was rosy considering the actions Volker began and continued. With the debt/GDP at a lousy 1.1 today, the future looks even lousier since monetary policy has few arrows in its quiver, and fiscal policy is completely absent. The only way to get more arrows into the monetary policy quiver is to raise overnight rates repeatedly, potentially/likely raising the long term yields as well. The Fed's not dumb, so they won't fall into that trap. So we'll be stuck with little that monetary policy will be able to do, and I see no end to the Dem vs. Rep wars which prevent any fiscal policy at all. GDP at about 2% shows no signs of increasing, so it would be ridiculous to expect growth to help kick the debt can down the road. I predict that the debt/GDP will get worse; worse to the point of hurting. The solution has to start with fiscal policy, but citizens will have to realize that they can't fight their way to overcome the problem, and vote only for conciliators, not pugilists. We need a McKinley, not a Cleveland.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Dec 9, 2015 19:29:17 GMT -5
we did fine, up until about 1981. our debt/GDP ratio had gone from 1.1 to 0.5. we are now back up to 1.1 I have to keep reminding you: at 0% interest. Even assuming that was true (it's not), near-zero interest rates are a plague for investors. Banks, insurance companies, pension funds, college funds, retail investors, institutional investors... all rely on some non-negligible yearly return in the bond markets. Thus far the Fed has been able to limit the carnage by goosing the stock market and buying up banks' junk assets on the cheap, but QE is over now. The stock market is stagnating, moving sideways. Manufacturing and especially transports are tumbling. The S&P 500 is back in the red for 2015. Near-zero interest rates are unsustainable, make no mistake about it. They're a shot of epinephrine. Yeah you can keep pumping epi into the patient but eventually his whole body is going to give out. As I've said before many times, the world's central banks chose the cancer over the car crash.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Dec 9, 2015 19:42:12 GMT -5
Donald Trump is filling the leadership void of Barrack Obama, John Boehner, and Mitch McConnell. This is what happens. Where the hell is Godwin when we need him?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 20:27:02 GMT -5
we did fine, up until about 1981. our debt/GDP ratio had gone from 1.1 to 0.5. we are now back up to 1.1 I have to keep reminding you: at 0% interest. you got it wrong the last time, so i will remind you again. it is 2.2% interest.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 20:28:44 GMT -5
we did fine, up until about 1981. our debt/GDP ratio had gone from 1.1 to 0.5. we are now back up to 1.1 Let's consider where we might go from here. The economy shows very low inflation (and a relatively recent, slight deflation) and low-yielding 10 year Treasuries today. In 1981, inflation was high and the 10 year Treasury yields were very, very high (in the teens). Going forward, it seems inevitable that the 10 year Treasury yield will normalize. Perhaps not as rapidly as the fear mongering financial press would like everyone to swallow, but inevitably. When it happens, the debt picture will worsen. My point being that when debt/GPD was OK at 0.5 in 1981, the future was rosy considering the actions Volker began and continued. With the debt/GDP at a lousy 1.1 today, the future looks even lousier since monetary policy has few arrows in its quiver, and fiscal policy is completely absent. The only way to get more arrows into the monetary policy quiver is to raise overnight rates repeatedly, potentially/likely raising the long term yields as well. The Fed's not dumb, so they won't fall into that trap. So we'll be stuck with little that monetary policy will be able to do, and I see no end to the Dem vs. Rep wars which prevent any fiscal policy at all. GDP at about 2% shows no signs of increasing, so it would be ridiculous to expect growth to help kick the debt can down the road. I predict that the debt/GDP will get worse; worse to the point of hurting. The solution has to start with fiscal policy, but citizens will have to realize that they can't fight their way to overcome the problem, and vote only for conciliators, not pugilists. We need a McKinley, not a Cleveland. you're probably correct, but it might not cause us a great deal of trouble. please note how i phrased that before you or anyone else comes after me for suggesting that we SHOULD carry more debt. we shouldn't.
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fishy999
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Post by fishy999 on Dec 9, 2015 21:18:21 GMT -5
Donald Trump is filling the leadership void of Barrack Obama, John Boehner, and Mitch McConnell. This is what happens. Trump is filling the candidate void for the ugly underbelly of this nation that is angry as hell, scared (and of course the bigots/white identity/Christian Dominionist/xenophobic folks) He started with the Mexicans and pivoted right on cue to Muslims- and will pivot as necessary to make sure he is seen as the solution to whatever problem said underbelly blames for their problems in life. And of course he is- his plan IMO is to be on stage to the end- and I predict he will go independent if he doesn't get the nomination if not sooner. He is going to make sure he is part of the presidential debates no matter how he has to get there. He wants to be in the spotlight, not actually be president- again my opinion.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 23:53:24 GMT -5
Donald Trump is filling the leadership void of Barrack Obama, John Boehner, and Mitch McConnell. This is what happens. Donald Trump is saying what angry white people want him to say, and chumming the waters for attention. My guess is he quits when he loses a couple primaries and insists he's not a loser because he never intended to be President. No way he would want to be POTUS and give up control of his company for 4 years, and while he claims he's for the middle class, he was born into the upper class and lives the 1% lifestyle. He won't want to give up that up in order to rub elbows with the unwashed middle class. Can you imagine the current Mrs Trump showing up for the inauguration in a cloth coat instead of one of her furs so that she can demonstrate she's 'one of the people?' Won't happen. You know, if Trump's opponents don't come up with a better argument than "RACISTBIGOTSEXISTHOMOPHOBE!!!" every time Trump says something they don't like, Trump is going to be elected President. All the phony rhetoric that's supposed to do Republicans in, Trump is immune to. I think we've gotten to the point where there's a segment of society so completely and utterly out of touch with where the people that make this country work are, they don't recognize that Trump isn't nutty, or hateful, or even particularly controversial. Trump has simply started the first adult conversation decades on numerous issues and the GOP establishment-Democrat-Media complex in this country simply don't know how to handle it. When they tell you you've gone too far, you're supposed to stop and apologize, and your supporters are supposed to abandon you. I have news for you: we're off script now. You're going to have to make a coherent counter-point. Name calling and race baiting isn't going to cut it this time around.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 23:55:45 GMT -5
Donald Trump is filling the leadership void of Barrack Obama, John Boehner, and Mitch McConnell. This is what happens. Trump is filling the candidate void for the ugly underbelly of this nation that is angry as hell, scared (and of course the bigots/white identity/Christian Dominionist/xenophobic folks) He started with the Mexicans and pivoted right on cue to Muslims- and will pivot as necessary to make sure he is seen as the solution to whatever problem said underbelly blames for their problems in life. And of course he is- his plan IMO is to be on stage to the end- and I predict he will go independent if he doesn't get the nomination if not sooner. He is going to make sure he is part of the presidential debates no matter how he has to get there. He wants to be in the spotlight, not actually be president- again my opinion. I predict the GOP establishment loses their ever loving minds and throws Trump out of the party, the TEA Party and the GOP base comes along with him-- not because they like Trump so much as they HATE the GOP establishment. In other words- yes. I think Trump goes third party, but not willingly.
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verrip1
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Post by verrip1 on Dec 9, 2015 23:56:30 GMT -5
Let's consider where we might go from here. The economy shows very low inflation (and a relatively recent, slight deflation) and low-yielding 10 year Treasuries today. In 1981, inflation was high and the 10 year Treasury yields were very, very high (in the teens). Going forward, it seems inevitable that the 10 year Treasury yield will normalize. Perhaps not as rapidly as the fear mongering financial press would like everyone to swallow, but inevitably. When it happens, the debt picture will worsen. My point being that when debt/GPD was OK at 0.5 in 1981, the future was rosy considering the actions Volker began and continued. With the debt/GDP at a lousy 1.1 today, the future looks even lousier since monetary policy has few arrows in its quiver, and fiscal policy is completely absent. The only way to get more arrows into the monetary policy quiver is to raise overnight rates repeatedly, potentially/likely raising the long term yields as well. The Fed's not dumb, so they won't fall into that trap. So we'll be stuck with little that monetary policy will be able to do, and I see no end to the Dem vs. Rep wars which prevent any fiscal policy at all. GDP at about 2% shows no signs of increasing, so it would be ridiculous to expect growth to help kick the debt can down the road. I predict that the debt/GDP will get worse; worse to the point of hurting. The solution has to start with fiscal policy, but citizens will have to realize that they can't fight their way to overcome the problem, and vote only for conciliators, not pugilists. We need a McKinley, not a Cleveland. you're probably correct, but it might not cause us a great deal of trouble. please note how i phrased that before you or anyone else comes after me for suggesting that we SHOULD carry more debt. we shouldn't. Well, then, perhaps I should note that I made no suggestion that you approve of higher debt levels. Nor did I suggest there that tax and spend liberals care nothing about the debt. Let's see, what else can I note that I didn't say that will likely get under somebody's skin? Point made?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 23:58:50 GMT -5
you're probably correct, but it might not cause us a great deal of trouble. please note how i phrased that before you or anyone else comes after me for suggesting that we SHOULD carry more debt. we shouldn't. Well, then, perhaps I should note that I made no suggestion that you approve of higher debt levels. Nor did I suggest there that tax and spend liberals care nothing about the debt. Let's see, what else can I note that I didn't say that will likely get under somebody's skin? Point made? sure. that was not so much for you, verrip. some posters think that i love taxes and deficits, and hate guns. they are wrong on all three counts. but you know that.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 10, 2015 0:36:15 GMT -5
I have to keep reminding you: at 0% interest. you got it wrong the last time, so i will remind you again. it is 2.2% interest. Doesn't change the point.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 10, 2015 0:39:44 GMT -5
you got it wrong the last time, so i will remind you again. it is 2.2% interest. Doesn't change the point. no, it doesn't. so why not be accurate?
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 10, 2015 1:54:59 GMT -5
You KNOW who you're talking to, and you can STILL ask that?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 10, 2015 2:55:20 GMT -5
You KNOW who you're talking to, and you can STILL ask that?
i am not the only one that needs reminding.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Dec 10, 2015 3:42:07 GMT -5
Perhaps, but at least in my defense I asked out of incredulousness, not sincerity.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 10, 2015 6:53:49 GMT -5
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Dec 10, 2015 8:30:56 GMT -5
Really? I thought it was the "I'll shut the whole damn thing down if I don't get my way" congress. Yes and they did shut down the government. They got paid while others didn't and citizens were denied access to parks, monuments etc. Cost the government about $25B. Hey that's our money!! Thanks GOP. Actually Ken, We can thank the bureaucracy of government ( Don't let a good crisis go to waste) that shut down the monuments and National Parks, Where it cost more to keep the public out than it would have just to keep the parks open, And of course we stepped up, paid them any way. Here in AZ our Governor Said Keep the Grand Canyon Open WE will Pay for it. Nope did not happen, just did not fit in the Government agenda!!
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