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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 13:31:36 GMT -5
I agree there is some percentage of republican voters who have been staying at home in the last elections. However, what Trump is also waking up are those moderate Republican and independent voters like myself who are appalled at the thought of such a loud mouthed racist being president. I'm certain there are a lot of people (like me) who aren't excited about Hillary, but, if faced with the possibility of having Trump as the POTUS, would get off our asses and drive to the polls just to vote against him. My prediction - if Hillary stays low, avoids any scandals and controversies and picks a solid VP, and if she's running against Trump, she may be the first person elected president not because of who she is and what she's proposing, but simply because she isn't Trump. Trump is gambling that there are enough angry white people to elect him. I think the republicans will manage to keep him from the nomination, which will cause Trump to run as an independent, splitting the Republican vote and guaranteeing Clinton will walk away the winner. ALL my Democrat friends- literally every single one of them- are voting for Trump. must not be very good friends if you call them "Democrat friends".
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Post by Opti on Dec 9, 2015 13:33:03 GMT -5
I think Paul is pro-Trump because if Trump implodes or gets less popular, those votes should go to Cruz.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 13:35:33 GMT -5
no. he is talking about banning ALL MUSLIMS, INCLUDING US CITIZENS, PAUL. please stop making ill informed posts on this. you are not getting the entire picture. No, he isn't. And he never proposed a "registry" for muslims, either. And he said that it's temporary until we can figure out what the hell is going on. no. he doubled down, Paul. he said "until the problem is solved". that would be....FOREVER. he SAYS temporary- but his stipulations = forever. this is a rapidly moving story, with a lot of details to report. we should probably start a thread on it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 13:42:52 GMT -5
Well, once again literally EVERYONE is wrong and Trump is right. This is why he's leading. He has not only not proposed anything illegal or unConstitutional, he has in effect said that he would IMPLEMENT a provision of the law (it's already law, kids): 8 U.S. Code § 1182 - Inadmissible aliens reads, in part: We're done. The debate over the law and the Constitution is over. This is now a policy debate- should we, or shouldn't we? Can we is settled law. glad to see that you are conceding that the US Code is the rule of law. i will make a note of that for our future discussions.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 13:44:20 GMT -5
OK, you're gonna love this...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 13:43:53 GMT -5
I think Paul is pro-Trump because if Trump implodes or gets less popular, those votes should go to Cruz. only if Carson is out, which i think he is. otherwise, only half will go to Cruz. and yeah, that might be enough.
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 9, 2015 13:52:16 GMT -5
Well, once again literally EVERYONE is wrong and Trump is right. This is why he's leading. He has not only not proposed anything illegal or unConstitutional, he has in effect said that he would IMPLEMENT a provision of the law (it's already law, kids): 8 U.S. Code § 1182 - Inadmissible aliens reads, in part: We're done. The debate over the law and the Constitution is over. This is now a policy debate- should we, or shouldn't we? Can we is settled law. No. I'm sure you'd find some legal scholars who would claim it was unconstitutional to deny access to our country based simply by religion, since freedom of religion is part of our bill of rights. Deny access to citizens of a country we are at war with - sure. But not every member of a religion. Besides, this proposal is stupidly unworkable. If someone wants to destroy us, are they doing to admit they're a Muslim going through customs? Or are they going to cross their fingers and claim to be Christian? How will you know they are really Muslim? Make them eat a sausage? Make them tear a page out of the Quoran? Make them recite a Bible verse? Or do you believe terrorists aren't capable of lying about that? Laughably unworkable. It will piss off honest Muslims and the terrorists will slip on through and go blow something up. If this is the type of 'fixes' Trump finds attractive, we're in serious shit should he be president.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 13:54:32 GMT -5
Well, once again literally EVERYONE is wrong and Trump is right. This is why he's leading. He has not only not proposed anything illegal or unConstitutional, he has in effect said that he would IMPLEMENT a provision of the law (it's already law, kids): 8 U.S. Code § 1182 - Inadmissible aliens reads, in part: We're done. The debate over the law and the Constitution is over. This is now a policy debate- should we, or shouldn't we? Can we is settled law. No. I'm sure you'd find some legal scholars who would claim it was unconstitutional to deny access to our country based simply by religion, since freedom of religion is part of our bill of rights. Deny access to citizens of a country we are at war with - sure. But not every member of a religion. Besides, this proposal is stupidly unworkable. If someone wants to destroy us, are they doing to admit they're a Muslim going through customs? Or are they going to cross their fingers and claim to be Christian? How will you know they are really Muslim? Make them eat a sausage? Make them tear a page out of the Quoran? Make them recite a Bible verse? Or do you believe terrorists aren't capable of lying about that? Laughably unworkable. It will piss off honest Muslims and the terrorists will slip on through and go blow something up. If this is the type of 'fixes' Trump finds attractive, we're in serious shit should he be president. it only takes about 30 seconds to come up with those objections, and yet many people seem to actually take the proposal as if it was serious policy. i think that Trump wakes up with a head full of bullshit, and starts writing memos. i am not convinced that he ever does ANY research. edit: i am starting to think that he isn't very smart, either- despite what he says.
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 9, 2015 13:57:48 GMT -5
Another temper tantrum from el bebé. Donald Trump Blasts Time For Not Naming Him Person Of The Year"I told you @time Magazine would never pick me as person of the year despite being the big favorite They picked person who is ruining Germany 7:53 AM - 9 Dec 2015" Donald Trump Blasts Time For Not Naming Him Person Of The Year
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 9, 2015 14:04:53 GMT -5
I don't know that he's smart, but I think he's very cunning.
He's very good at figuring out what people want to hear. There is a certain type of person that is attracted to successful people, so he excels at promoting himself as a business genius who always wins, and he can make America and everyone else in it win, too. That can be a seductive message, especially to people who feel like they always get screwed over.
Underneath that façade, though, there isn't any policy, or thought, or planning. I think that's why he annoys the mainstream candidates, who all spend so much time crafting their platform and message - Trump flies by the seat of his pants, and his brain is literally in his mouth.
I think this will ultimately hang him. It's fine to insist we build a giant wall between us and Mexico without explaining where all the money will come from, and it's fine to threaten to bar all Muslims from entering the country without thinking through how to positively identify a Muslim in the first place, but you keep piling these gaffes one on top of the other and eventually it will become evident to all but his more hard core fans that the man talks out of his ass.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 14:05:46 GMT -5
No. I'm sure you'd find some legal scholars who would claim it was unconstitutional to deny access to our country based simply by religion, since freedom of religion is part of our bill of rights. Deny access to citizens of a country we are at war with - sure. But not every member of a religion. Besides, this proposal is stupidly unworkable. If someone wants to destroy us, are they doing to admit they're a Muslim going through customs? Or are they going to cross their fingers and claim to be Christian? How will you know they are really Muslim? Make them eat a sausage? Make them tear a page out of the Quoran? Make them recite a Bible verse? Or do you believe terrorists aren't capable of lying about that? Laughably unworkable. It will piss off honest Muslims and the terrorists will slip on through and go blow something up. If this is the type of 'fixes' Trump finds attractive, we're in serious shit should he be president. it only takes about 30 seconds to come up with those objections, and yet many people seem to actually take the proposal as if it was serious policy. i think that Trump wakes up with a head full of bullshit, and starts writing memos. i am not convinced that he ever does ANY research. edit: i am starting to think that he isn't very smart, either- despite what he says. It's not a proposal. It's the law. It has already stood the test when Carter invoked the law to halt immigration from Iran and order Iranian students to register, then expelled those on expired visas. The only question is, is it prudent in light of 9/11 and the five deadly islamic terror attacks since- including the deadliest islam-motivated jihadist attack in San Bernardiono, to temporarily suspend immigration from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Syria? Most reasonable people agree this is prudent. Trump gets a YUGE bump from this.
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 9, 2015 14:08:14 GMT -5
Another temper tantrum from el bebé. Donald Trump Blasts Time For Not Naming Him Person Of The Year"I told you @time Magazine would never pick me as person of the year despite being the big favorite They picked person who is ruining Germany 7:53 AM - 9 Dec 2015" Donald Trump Blasts Time For Not Naming Him Person Of The YearBless his heart. Is there a psychological word for the need to win everything all the time? Besides, didn't Time make Hitler man of the year once? I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to be picked for this.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 14:10:39 GMT -5
I don't know that he's smart, but I think he's very cunning. He's very good at figuring out what people want to hear. There is a certain type of person that is attracted to successful people, so he excels at promoting himself as a business genius who always wins, and he can make America and everyone else in it win, too. That can be a seductive message, especially to people who feel like they always get screwed over. Underneath that façade, though, there isn't any policy, or thought, or planning. I think that's why he annoys the mainstream candidates, who all spend so much time crafting their platform and message - Trump flies by the seat of his pants, and his brain is literally in his mouth. I think this will ultimately hang him. It's fine to insist we build a giant wall between us and Mexico without explaining where all the money will come from, and it's fine to threaten to bar all Muslims from entering the country without thinking through how to positively identify a Muslim in the first place, but you keep piling these gaffes one on top of the other and eventually it will become evident to all but his more hard core fans that the man talks out of his ass. Politically this is a whole 'nother story. It's brilliant. Trump now occupies a political position at odds with the GOP establishment- which GOP primary voters HATE; at odds with Barrack Obama- who's magic is long gone, and who is a drag on the Democratic Party; and at odds with Hamas; as well as has the media in full blown hysterics. In today's political environment, to be occupying a hill with an angry electorate against the GOP establishment, Barrack Obama & The Democrats, The Media, and Hamas-- that's a pretty nice place to be. This is a lot more than merely pandering-- in fact, I don't think it is pandering. This is Art of the Deal stuff. This is the opening proposal in what Trump KNOWS will be a negotiation, so that by the time he has the nomination sewn up, and buries Hillary-- he will actually get the "reasonable" items he wants. It's stunning how few people see it.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 14:11:26 GMT -5
Another temper tantrum from el bebé. Donald Trump Blasts Time For Not Naming Him Person Of The Year"I told you @time Magazine would never pick me as person of the year despite being the big favorite They picked person who is ruining Germany 7:53 AM - 9 Dec 2015" Donald Trump Blasts Time For Not Naming Him Person Of The YearBless his heart. Is there a psychological word for the need to win everything all the time? Besides, didn't Time make Hitler man of the year once? I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to be picked for this. Merckel? Not the leader of ISIS? Not Vladimir Putin? What the hell were they thinking?
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 14:13:10 GMT -5
I think Paul is pro-Trump because if Trump implodes or gets less popular, those votes should go to Cruz. only if Carson is out, which i think he is. otherwise, only half will go to Cruz. and yeah, that might be enough. I'm perfectly comfortable with Trump sucking up all the oxygen in the room. You'll note Cruz is the only conservative outsider besides Carson and Trump- and I do think Carson is done. People finally agree with me on Carson: nice guy, bit of a story-teller, but mainly we can't afford a leader that needs training wheels.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 14:16:14 GMT -5
The caveat to my strategy, though, is that I now believe Trump will win the nomination. GOP primary voters are entitled to select their nominee-- this elitist notion that there's some such thing as "we" and "we" can't "let" Trump get the nomination is not my idea of fair play. What defeats a bad idea is a better idea. If Trump is a gift to Hillary Clinton, and Hillary will beat Trump so badly, then pray tell, GOP candidates: why can't YOU beat Trump? And does it not stand to reason that if YOU can't beat Trump, but Hillary can, that YOU also cannot beat Hillary?
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Dec 9, 2015 14:18:04 GMT -5
I don't know that he's smart, but I think he's very cunning. He's very good at figuring out what people want to hear. There is a certain type of person that is attracted to successful people, so he excels at promoting himself as a business genius who always wins, and he can make America and everyone else in it win, too. That can be a seductive message, especially to people who feel like they always get screwed over. Underneath that façade, though, there isn't any policy, or thought, or planning. I think that's why he annoys the mainstream candidates, who all spend so much time crafting their platform and message - Trump flies by the seat of his pants, and his brain is literally in his mouth. I think this will ultimately hang him. It's fine to insist we build a giant wall between us and Mexico without explaining where all the money will come from, and it's fine to threaten to bar all Muslims from entering the country without thinking through how to positively identify a Muslim in the first place, but you keep piling these gaffes one on top of the other and eventually it will become evident to all but his more hard core fans that the man talks out of his ass. Politically this is a whole 'nother story. It's brilliant. Trump now occupies a political position at odds with the GOP establishment- which GOP primary voters HATE; at odds with Barrack Obama- who's magic is long gone, and who is a drag on the democratic party; and at odds with Hamas; as well as has the media in full blown hysterics. In today's political environment, to be occupying a hill with an angry electorate against the GOP establishment, Barrack Obama & The Democrats, The Media, and Hamas-- that's a pretty nice place to be. This is a lot more than merely pandering-- in fact, I don't think it is pandering. This is Art of the Deal stuff. This is the opening proposal in what Trump KNOWS will be a negotiation, so that by the time he has the nomination sewn up, and buries Hillary-- he will actually get the "reasonable" items he wants. It's stunning how few people see it. Paul, do you think a businessman used to being the head of his own company and being able to strong arm his adveraries into submission will successful as POTUS? I think it would be like Henry the VIII of England as mayor of New York. You aren't allowed to declare bankruptcy, or cut loose underperforming segments of the government and sell them off, or seize money from the Church to prop up the federal treasurer, or cut off anyone's head when they don't do what you want. Should Trump make it to POTUS, he will face a congress that not only won't work with him, but will set out to screw him over. Not just the Dems, the Republican members would also rather shit in his hat than look at him. One man, no matter how special or good at making deals, can't run the country single handed, and Trump is not the kind of person who plays well with others. If he got elected, it would be 4 years of gridlock - or rather whatever length of time it takes for him to be impeached.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Dec 9, 2015 14:20:35 GMT -5
I think Trump is just laying ground for a new reality TV show. Knowledgeable voters won't pick Trump. He can't stand to lose. So bye-bye after the first caucus.
Carson has done great things as a doctor. I don't know why he got into this fiasco.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 14:39:42 GMT -5
it only takes about 30 seconds to come up with those objections, and yet many people seem to actually take the proposal as if it was serious policy. i think that Trump wakes up with a head full of bullshit, and starts writing memos. i am not convinced that he ever does ANY research. edit: i am starting to think that he isn't very smart, either- despite what he says. It's not a proposal. It's the law. It has already stood the test when Carter invoked the law to halt immigration from Iran and order Iranian students to register, then expelled those on expired visas. The only question is, is it prudent in light of 9/11 and the five deadly islamic terror attacks since- including the deadliest islam-motivated jihadist attack in San Bernardiono, to temporarily suspend immigration from Saudi Arabia, Iraq, and Syria? Most reasonable people agree this is prudent. Trump gets a YUGE bump from this. it is utterly without an prudence whatsoever, and hopefully he will get spanked hard for it. edit: if his polling numbers go up, this is the last primary cycle i vote Republican. the party has gone totally off the rails if it can't see through this guy's bullshit.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 14:40:36 GMT -5
The caveat to my strategy, though, is that I now believe Trump will win the nomination. GOP primary voters are entitled to select their nominee-- this elitist notion that there's some such thing as "we" and "we" can't "let" Trump get the nomination is not my idea of fair play. What defeats a bad idea is a better idea. If Trump is a gift to Hillary Clinton, and Hillary will beat Trump so badly, then pray tell, GOP candidates: why can't YOU beat Trump? And does it not stand to reason that if YOU can't beat Trump, but Hillary can, that YOU also cannot beat Hillary? i think that if he takes the nomination to the convention, it is going to be an all out war.
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 9, 2015 14:42:45 GMT -5
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 15:20:59 GMT -5
The caveat to my strategy, though, is that I now believe Trump will win the nomination. GOP primary voters are entitled to select their nominee-- this elitist notion that there's some such thing as "we" and "we" can't "let" Trump get the nomination is not my idea of fair play. What defeats a bad idea is a better idea. If Trump is a gift to Hillary Clinton, and Hillary will beat Trump so badly, then pray tell, GOP candidates: why can't YOU beat Trump? And does it not stand to reason that if YOU can't beat Trump, but Hillary can, that YOU also cannot beat Hillary? i think that if he takes the nomination to the convention, it is going to be an all out war. So, the question is: do you want to be Donald Trump right now, or Jeb Bush?
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 15:23:01 GMT -5
i think that if he takes the nomination to the convention, it is going to be an all out war. So, the question is: do you want to be Donald Trump right now, or Jeb Bush? why is that the question? how about this question: would you want to be Donald Trump right now, or Hillary Clinton?
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 15:29:09 GMT -5
So, the question is: do you want to be Donald Trump right now, or Jeb Bush? why is that the question? how about this question: would you want to be Donald Trump right now, or Hillary Clinton? I'd still rather be Donald Trump. If I lose- which is a pretty big "if" right now- I'm still a billionaire. Like I have said before-- my real opinion is that this is all just fun and games at this point. We're all dead. We lost the country when we elected Obama. There is realistically no way to salvage it at this point.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 15:31:53 GMT -5
why is that the question? how about this question: would you want to be Donald Trump right now, or Hillary Clinton? I'd still rather be Donald Trump. If I lose- which is a pretty big "if" right now- I'm still a billionaire. Like I have said before-- my real opinion is that this is all just fun and games at this point. We're all dead. We lost the country when we elected Obama. There is realistically no way to salvage it at this point. we lost the country in 2001-2003. Obama might not have helped, but he wasn't the cause of our demise.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Dec 9, 2015 15:41:25 GMT -5
why is that the question? how about this question: would you want to be Donald Trump right now, or Hillary Clinton? I'd still rather be Donald Trump. If I lose- which is a pretty big "if" right now- I'm still a billionaire. Like I have said before-- my real opinion is that this is all just fun and games at this point. We're all dead. We lost the country when we elected Obama. There is realistically no way to salvage it at this point. We lost the country with George W Bush and Dick Cheney. Obama couldn't fight the do nothing Congress to fix everything.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 15:53:27 GMT -5
I'd still rather be Donald Trump. If I lose- which is a pretty big "if" right now- I'm still a billionaire. Like I have said before-- my real opinion is that this is all just fun and games at this point. We're all dead. We lost the country when we elected Obama. There is realistically no way to salvage it at this point. We lost the country with George W Bush and Dick Cheney. Obama couldn't fight the do nothing Congress to fix everything. Rhetoric aside, is there something Congress stopped Obama from doing? This has been the go-along-to-get-along Congress. The Rubber Stamp congress.
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 9, 2015 15:54:21 GMT -5
Donald Trump is filling the leadership void of Barrack Obama, John Boehner, and Mitch McConnell. This is what happens.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Dec 9, 2015 16:04:57 GMT -5
Really?? They got along? No. They did very little. Then when Obama stepped in with executive orders to do what they should have worked out he was chastised. On record as the worst congress for 8 years.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 9, 2015 16:07:07 GMT -5
Donald Trump is filling the leadership void of Barrack Obama, John Boehner, and Mitch McConnell. This is what happens. i disagree that he is showing leadership, in the conventional sense.
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