Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 10:50:20 GMT -5
for the record, I did not complain or accuse, other then here.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Jul 27, 2015 10:56:24 GMT -5
I don't understand all the kid hatred. I can see if the kid's like 4-5 and being a huge PITA, but a little 1-2 year old just squeaking and playing? How is that kid deserving of being kicked? I don't hate kids... I just like most dogs better than I like most kids. How is a dog who howls, you know... like ANIMALS do... deserving of being kicked?
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 27, 2015 10:56:55 GMT -5
::Can you imagine a scenario where you see a dog and know that it is not a service dog? Some things are obvious. Some scams are obvious. Putting a "service dog" vest on your dog so you can take it into McDonalds is kind of a scam, imo.:: No, I can't. I can't imagine a scenario where I see a dog and just know the dog's life story and whether at any time it has gone through one of many trainings.::I guess it could have been a real service dog in the same sense that the Nigerian prince really does need me to help get his money out of Nigeria.:: It would only be in the same sense if there were literally millions of legitimate cases where Nigerian princes needed help to get money out of Nigeria, and you decided which ones were or weren't legitimate based on the font used. Or unless you think all animals labeled as service animals are fraudulent. You're taking a scenario which is legitimate in millions of cases, and simply claiming you can spot a fake by looking at it because...well because you say so. That's massively different from claiming that all/nearly all of a scenario are fraudulent (as in the case of the Nigerian prince). I do not need to know the life history of a dog to know it is not a service dog. Maybe it is hard to tell with some. With other dogs that bark, howl and interact with strangers it is not hard to tell. There's no requirement that a service dog have ANY training for how to behave in public (which is what some of us think is one of hte many issues with how service dogs are handled). If I went and took a vicious dog from the pound who tried to kill everything it saw, including humans, but trained it to bark at 3:00 and 9:00 every day to remind me to take my medication (or to recognize when I'm having an anxiety attack and lick my face to calm me down)...that would legally be classified as a service dog. I don't WANT dogs like that to get service dog status, but that's why I find it highly suspect that you can look at a dog and determine whether it is legally a service dog or not. Because there is absolutely nothing about how a dog behaves in public that determines whether it is a legally defined service dog.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 27, 2015 10:57:33 GMT -5
I don't understand all the kid hatred. I can see if the kid's like 4-5 and being a huge PITA, but a little 1-2 year old just squeaking and playing? How is that kid deserving of being kicked? I'm sure not bothered by a small child squeaking and playing. It makes me smile.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 27, 2015 10:58:18 GMT -5
I don't understand all the kid hatred. I can see if the kid's like 4-5 and being a huge PITA, but a little 1-2 year old just squeaking and playing? How is that kid deserving of being kicked? I don't hate kids... I just like most dogs better than I like most kids. How is a dog who howls, you know... like ANIMALS do... deserving of being kicked? I didn't say a dog DESERVES to be kicked, I just said unlike a kid you could kick them to make them stop. If you kick a kid they're just going to cry louder.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 27, 2015 11:00:16 GMT -5
Dogs are most likely going to howl louder if you hurt them also. I'm not even sure why someone would think kicking a dog is the answer to any sort of misbehavior but then some people just don't think.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jul 27, 2015 11:02:30 GMT -5
I don't understand all the kid hatred. I can see if the kid's like 4-5 and being a huge PITA, but a little 1-2 year old just squeaking and playing? How is that kid deserving of being kicked? I don't hate kids... I just like most dogs better than I like most kids. How is a dog who howls, you know... like ANIMALS do... deserving of being kicked? Because dogs should use their words, not their howls.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jul 27, 2015 11:03:35 GMT -5
::Service dogs are a huge issue for me as a dog person. The system is completely flawed. Service dogs provide a great need and do wonderful work, but there is no regulation of them. Meaning that anyone can take a dog anywhere and say it's a service dog and no one is allowed question it (thanks ADA) - which has led to abuse.:: They can question it, they just can't question it the way most of us would like it to be to prevent fraud. It's pretty similar to the issue of people with handicap placards. You can ask them questions, but you can't really ask them what you'd want to ask them to really figure out if they are handicapped or not.
::There are a group of service dogs that go through extensive training (guide dogs and autism dogs come to mind) but there is a whole subset of dogs who are acting as service dogs, but have no training to be in public. Service dogs should be bomb proof. :: This is why I find it very unlikely if not impossible to determine whether a dog is a service dog based on how it acts. To be a legitimate service dog all I have to do is train a dog to calm me down whenever I experience a PTSD episode. The dog doesn't have to be housebroken, well behaved, non-aggressive, or anything else. It only has to be trained to do that one thing. People hear the term "service dog" and start thinking a well behaved german shepherd leading a blind person around with perfect social interactions. I don't think people realize how low of a hurdle it is to be a legitimate service dog. Here handicap placards are issued by physicians and managed by DMV. Not everyone can get them. Training -To me, that is the issue. The dog only has to be trained to do that one thing. However, your dog can not calm you down if he's freaking out he because he's not in a place he's trained to deal with. He should not get into a fight with another dog. He should be safe around kids/loud noises, etc. Yes, true service dogs are hard to get. A lot fail out of the program. But there should be a level of training that is required before they are allowed to act as one in public. I have no problem with service/comfort/ whatever dogs. In fact, I think we need to expand the program. But it has to be done right. Right now, there is way too much abuse , and it makes it hard for those who need them.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on Jul 27, 2015 11:03:35 GMT -5
There's no requirement that a service dog have ANY training for how to behave in public (which is what some of us think is one of hte many issues with how service dogs are handled). If I went and took a vicious dog from the pound who tried to kill everything it saw, including humans, but trained it to bark at 3:00 and 9:00 every day to remind me to take my medication (or to recognize when I'm having an anxiety attack and lick my face to calm me down)...that would legally be classified as a service dog. I don't WANT dogs like that to get service dog status, but that's why I find it highly suspect that you can look at a dog and determine whether it is legally a service dog or not. Because there is absolutely nothing about how a dog behaves in public that determines whether it is a legally defined service dog.That's very interesting. I assumed a service dog would have to have training to behave properly in public.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 27, 2015 11:11:08 GMT -5
I don't understand all the kid hatred. I can see if the kid's like 4-5 and being a huge PITA, but a little 1-2 year old just squeaking and playing? How is that kid deserving of being kicked? I don't hate kids... I just like most dogs better than I like most kids. How is a dog who howls, you know... like ANIMALS do... deserving of being kicked? I took hoops902 post as not really serious, hence why I "liked" it. I don't advocate kicking any living thing unless it's attacking you.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 27, 2015 11:11:58 GMT -5
::Here handicap placards are issued by physicians and managed by DMV. Not everyone can get them.::
Same here. I realize it's a little different than being able to buy a service dog vest freely, my point was more around questioning people using the "thing". For example, you're only supposed to use the handicap placard if that person is in the car...it isn't for your friend Joe to borrow your car and park in the handicapped spot.
::Yes, true service dogs are hard to get. A lot fail out of the program.::
True service dogs are easy to get. GOOD service dogs are hard to get. True service dogs to do something complex like guiding a blind person around reliably are hard to get. I think that's the image most of us have in our mind when we hear "service dog". We're thinking dogs doing super complex things pretty much all day long.
::Dogs are most likely going to howl louder if you hurt them also.::
I'm just assuming. I haven't kicked my dog, but when it ran into an electric fence once it just kind of cowered down and didn't make a noise in a very similar way to when I yell at him.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jul 27, 2015 11:17:51 GMT -5
There's no requirement that a service dog have ANY training for how to behave in public (which is what some of us think is one of hte many issues with how service dogs are handled). If I went and took a vicious dog from the pound who tried to kill everything it saw, including humans, but trained it to bark at 3:00 and 9:00 every day to remind me to take my medication (or to recognize when I'm having an anxiety attack and lick my face to calm me down)...that would legally be classified as a service dog. I don't WANT dogs like that to get service dog status, but that's why I find it highly suspect that you can look at a dog and determine whether it is legally a service dog or not. Because there is absolutely nothing about how a dog behaves in public that determines whether it is a legally defined service dog.That's very interesting. I assumed a service dog would have to have training to behave properly in public. There are groups that train for the blind/autism and a few others that have extensive training programs. But more and more, dogs are being used for medical alert/comfort /emotional support which do not necessarily go through training to behave in public. And you can buy a jacket on the internet, so just because they are wearing a jacket, doesn't mean they have any training to be in public.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Jul 27, 2015 11:18:55 GMT -5
I don't hate kids... I just like most dogs better than I like most kids. How is a dog who howls, you know... like ANIMALS do... deserving of being kicked? I took hoops902 post as not really serious, hence why I "liked" it. I don't advocate kicking any living thing unless it's attacking you. Isn't this part of how you get a thread to over 10 pages. You keep the one debate going (service dogs) and then introduce other sub topics that will get people heated like kicking dogs and unruly children in restaurants.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 27, 2015 11:27:47 GMT -5
My aunt found an organization online out of California that would certify her dog as a therapy dog. She just needed to get a physician to sign off that she had emotional issues and needed the dog with her. She has no issues, she just wants to take the dog with them when they travel and get it into hotels that other wise prohibit pets.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Jul 27, 2015 11:32:22 GMT -5
I don't hate kids... I just like most dogs better than I like most kids. How is a dog who howls, you know... like ANIMALS do... deserving of being kicked? I took hoops902 post as not really serious, hence why I "liked" it. I don't advocate kicking any living thing unless it's attacking you. why was my post taken so seriously? is it because I am known for walking down the street and kicking kids?
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Jul 27, 2015 11:35:23 GMT -5
I don't hate kids... I just like most dogs better than I like most kids. How is a dog who howls, you know... like ANIMALS do... deserving of being kicked? I didn't say a dog DESERVES to be kicked, I just said unlike a kid you could kick them to make them stop. If you kick a kid they're just going to cry louder. and I didn't say a kid DESERVES to be kicked.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 27, 2015 11:35:42 GMT -5
I took hoops902 post as not really serious, hence why I "liked" it. I don't advocate kicking any living thing unless it's attacking you. why was my post taken so seriously? is it because I am known for walking down the street and kicking kids? I didn't want to say anything, but some photo evidence surfaced...
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 27, 2015 11:36:19 GMT -5
I hope my post was taken seriously....because I was serious.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Jul 27, 2015 11:37:05 GMT -5
why was my post taken so seriously? is it because I am known for walking down the street and kicking kids? I didn't want to say anything, but some photo evidence surfaced... DAMNED TECHNOLOGY! can't do ANYTHING without shit going viral.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Jul 27, 2015 11:40:20 GMT -5
I hope my post was taken seriously....because I was serious. I agree with you wholeheartedly that dogs shouldn't be kicked (unless you are being attacked and defending yourself - then kick, a dog/a child/a unicorn, whatever you gotta kick) and that anyone that does so, should be prepared for any repercussions they get. If the dog turns around and bites you- well, you deserved it.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 27, 2015 11:41:35 GMT -5
I hope my post was taken seriously....because I was serious. I keeck you, mang!!!
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 27, 2015 11:44:55 GMT -5
I don't understand all the kid hatred. I can see if the kid's like 4-5 and being a huge PITA, but a little 1-2 year old just squeaking and playing? How is that kid deserving of being kicked? Kids: the last remaining socially acceptable prejudice.
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PK Bucko
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Post by PK Bucko on Jul 27, 2015 11:45:51 GMT -5
My aunt found an organization online out of California that would certify her dog as a therapy dog. She just needed to get a physician to sign off that she had emotional issues and needed the dog with her. She has no issues, she just wants to take the dog with them when they travel and get it into hotels that other wise prohibit pets. That's screwed up. My father has a guide dog. Most people don't even know that the animal is there until we get up to leave. Then they see the dog. They never hear him. If any true Guide Dog was howling as described in the OP, then you can figure that the poor animal was in miserable pain.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 27, 2015 11:46:05 GMT -5
I hope my post was taken seriously....because I was serious. I keeck you, mang!!! LOL!! Is that text-speak?
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Jul 27, 2015 11:49:31 GMT -5
My aunt found an organization online out of California that would certify her dog as a therapy dog. She just needed to get a physician to sign off that she had emotional issues and needed the dog with her. She has no issues, she just wants to take the dog with them when they travel and get it into hotels that other wise prohibit pets. That's screwed up. My father has a guide dog. Most people don't even know that the animal is there until we get up to leave. Then they see the dog. They never hear him. If any true Guide Dog was howling as described in the OP, then you can figure that the poor animal was in miserable pain. I know. It pissed me off when I heard about it. I know her PCP won't sign off on such nonsense though. The dog is a brat. Barks at everything, tries to bite people, etc. It should stay at home!
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 27, 2015 11:52:23 GMT -5
Kids: the last remaining socially acceptable prejudice. You forgot smokers. Oh yeah. That's true. People can just not smoke, though. Kids can't just stop being kids.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 27, 2015 11:52:54 GMT -5
Does anyone actually know anyone that smokes?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 27, 2015 11:54:39 GMT -5
Actually my neighbor does something with guide dogs but she's buds with therapy or some sort and she says that an animal will start to howl if something is wrong and the person it's protecting doesn't deal with it. It won't initially but only if it's ignored.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 27, 2015 11:55:14 GMT -5
Does anyone actually know anyone that smokes? My sister and her husband, though now she may only vape. My MIL, BIL and his wife. Some cousins.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jul 27, 2015 11:57:10 GMT -5
I have a dear friend who smokes like a chimney. It's really not that fun to go anywhere with him because he's always having to step outside to smoke. Dinner...a movie (he can't set through an entire movie without having to take a smoke break)...a bar....anywhere. He loves going to casinos because they allow smoking while he drinks. He doesn't want to travel by air because he can't smoke. To me, that's way too limiting a life-style, but then I have bad habits I can't seem to break either.
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