d

[Ombud]

I have 2 supposedly grown kids:

♤ DS - Launched. Good job in SF, owns rental + home I helped him get by gifting 50k to bring him to 20% dn on new home (he had 10% + 6 months mortgage in savings)
♧♧♧ GD2 - 11yo
♧♧ GS3 - 2yo
♧ due December 2015

♡ DD - moved back home in 2008 w/3 kids after a foreclosure. Moved in BF (I repeatedly kicked him out but she won). Had kid #4 last year. Just got a job
◇◇◇◇ GS1 moving to college in a month
◇◇◇ GS2 mensa but unmotivated 14yo
◇◇ GD1 - 9yo
◇ GD3 - 14 months

Noticed that the IOU DS signed was witnessed by DD but amount never put in. Although it was noted that anyone could borrow from me by signing an IOU & the 1% annual compounded interest rate would be paid to executor [DS] upon settlement of estate to collect debt from their part of estate prior to disbursal (per attny suggestion) this amount somehow wasn't there.

So here's the $$ question:
--- DS got 50k in May + Roth in 2012 & 2013
--- DD got 6 yrs of housing + 6k used Honda Civic Hybrid, I've taken her kids on my taxes 2009 - 2014 making me HOH vs Single thereby drastically reducing tax liability
--- I put DS's IOU @ 20k. Are they close to even?

[Shooby]

Gee, I don't know. Honestly, that isn't something I would even try to figure out personally. I dont' feel that I have to be "even" with my kids. I give them what they need. Sometimes one gets more, sometimes less and so on. I have no plans to drive myself crazy in that regard, lol. But, of course I understand that you want to feel that you are doing something for them both and you are.

[zibazinski]

I very much try to make things even with my kids

[Shooby]

I don't. Because there is a span of time. I mean, I think it all probably evens out in the end. But, like Christmas, when DD was little, she was the youngest and happy to get a few inexpensive toys whereas the boys were into electronics. So, I spent more on their Christmas gifts. I dont' feel like I needed to go out and spend equal amounts. Keeping track would make me crazy and I am not up for that.

[Ombud]

DD brings up the fact that she thinks DS got more. That's why I'm asking. I thought it was fairly even as the house would rent for 3k a month but I could be wrong as I still live here too

[MJ2.0]

Has she been living rent free for 7 years? In your house? With a man you didn't want there? If so, she's winning.

[mollyanna58]

If you're asking because you want things to be more or less even, that's one thing.  If you're asking because DD demands things be even, that's another.  And if she's adding things up, she'll never accept that she got at least as much as her brother.

Let's say she had rented an apartment for 6 years @ $1,000. per month: $72,000. 

[Deleted]

So what does your daughter think moving in with you 7 years ago with her 3 kids, having another baby and moving her boyfriend into YOUR home is worth? To me, giving up your privacy and supporting her and her family for years is kind of priceless unless you're into that kind of generational living. I'm not, unless someone is sick.

I probably should leave this one alone, because I don't think I can be objective. It strikes a nerve with me.

[Deleted]

Explain how you are putting the house up for sale and she can tell you after another 7 years how much she spend when she can no longer mooch off you.

Seriously, your daughter has a gigantic set of balls.

[Shooby]

Jul 21, 2015 17:35:56 GMT -5 Ombud said:

DD brings up the fact that she thinks DS got more. That's why I'm asking. I thought it was fairly even as the house would rent for 3k a month but I could be wrong as I still live here too

  Our kids know that they have extremely generous parents.  Once in awhile, they will go on a whinefest.  However, i won't tolerate it.  So, if they want to compare to one another, have at it.  I have a long, long memory of all the things DH and I have done and spent on them.  It really doesn't take very long for them to figure out that they are out of line.   

[Shooby]

  Oh, btw, my kids do not get to tell me how i may spend MY money.  If i want to buy something for DS, then i will.  That doesnt' necessarily mean everybody gets one.  Boo hoo.  I buy them plenty of stuff and they all get exactly what they need.  I am not going to play that accounting game nor is it their role to keep account of their supposed lack.   And, especially if they are grown adults.  I would shut that down right now.

[Ombud]

I'm sorry I let her move in. I probably should have bought her previous home and left her there


Coulda shoulda woulda doesn't help now

[Shooby]

Don't beat yourself up. You tried to help and did what you thought was right.

[Shooby]

You need to close the bank and let them figure out their own lives.

[saveinla]

Ombud,

You don't have to answer to her or feel guilty. It's your money and how you choose to spend it is on you. 

[Shooby]

Exactly. Don't let her take you task. That isn't her place. You don't have to justify anything to her.

[mmhmm]

Jul 21, 2015 18:26:27 GMT -5 Ombud said:

I'm sorry I let her move in. I probably should have bought her previous home and left her there


Coulda shoulda woulda doesn't help now

IMO, she's just trying to displace her guilt onto you, Ombud. She knows darned well she's used and misused you. I wouldn't tolerate her whining any further. She certainly didn't consider your needs, or feelings when she moved BF into your house multiple times when you didn't want him there. Tell her she's on her own and mean it!

[Ombud]

OK. I feel better. Thanks for letting me sound off. Single mom over 60. I worked a PT job as a Weight Watchers Leader b4 she moved back in for something to do but now I need 16-24 hours a week to make ends meet.

Plus I'm in debt. Been decades since I've been here (racing $6621 on car + not racing 2k on Mastercard, investments going in reverse).

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I'm so sorry she's treating you this way. 

[Deleted]

I'm glad you feel better Ombud.

[swasat]

Jul 21, 2015 18:26:27 GMT -5 Ombud said:

I'm sorry I let her move in. I probably should have bought her previous home and left her there


Coulda shoulda woulda doesn't help now

Actually it does.

I know you are hurting and you are just venting here. Kinda.

But, you are the one who enabled her. You are working PT job, incurring debt and using you invested money to support her, her 4 kids AND the BF in YOUR house and then on top of all that your DD has the balls to pile on guilt on you?

To be frank, you need to grow some balls of your own.

If she stays in your house, on your support mostly then she needs to learn her boundaries. And that boundaries need to come from you.

No way is any of my kids going to tell me how or what to spend. And the moment anyone tries guilting me.... Forget about being objective !!!

[Deleted]

Better yet, let's all work together with you to come up with a giant ass bill for everything you've given her and hers, and that BC you don't want there, and then say you'll write off the portion of it equal to son and then accept payments for the rest...

[Ombud]

She buys their food, pays $250 monthly, BF pays $400 monthly

Utilities doubled to:
$109 cable $20 their HD
$62.25 GS1 cell
$288 PGE up from $80

So $20 + 208 + 62 + 50 (water / garbage) = $340 - 650 they pay = 310 month

310 × 12 = 3720 per yr

As to kids:
Marching Band 350 per kid × 2 = 700
Music trips 2000 x 2 = 4,000
I have no way to add up clothes, other activities

So I guess I'm only out housing??

[swasat]

Jul 21, 2015 21:34:29 GMT -5 Ombud said:

She buys their food, pays $250 monthly, BF pays $400 monthly

Utilities doubled to:
$109 cable $20 their HD
$62.25 GS1 cell
$288 PGE up from $80

So $20 + 208 + 62 + 50 (water / garbage) = $340 - 650 they pay = 310 month

310 × 12 = 3720 per yr

As to kids:
Marching Band 350 per kid × 2 = 700
Music trips 2000 x 2 = 4,000
I have no way to add up clothes, other activities

So I guess I'm only out housing??

How are you only out housing ??

I guess you are the one paying for the band and the music trips .

And WHY would you pay $4k (!!!!!) for music trips when your DD can't afford it, and you obviously can't since you are in debt?

Honestly .... I understand your love or GKids. But you are sending a VERY wrong message to them. That it's ok to get your wishes at the expense of others......

[Ombud]

So I'm not out housing bc I own the house outright? I thought wear & tear counted for something but maybe I'm wrong. Willing to admit that but it is saving her the cost of renting

Yes I pay GKs expenses: music, school trips, clothes, shoes, activities

[Deleted]

Jul 21, 2015 21:46:06 GMT -5 Ombud said:

So I'm not out housing bc I own the house outright? I thought wear & tear counted for something but maybe I'm wrong. Willing to admit that but it is saving her the cost of renting

Yes I pay GKs expenses: music, school trips, clothes, shoes, activities

No, the cost is much higher than housing costs

[Ombud]

So back to initial premise : if she rented over the hill in a lower area, 2 bedroom house would be 1500 a month. DS rented out his 2 bedroom townhouse for 1700 month but could've gotten 1800 (failed to fully search comps, went with what realtor said). This house would rent for 2900 month per Zillow. They have 3 bedrooms here and I have 1. Taking average = 2000 × 12 months × 7 yrs = 168,000. Taking the least = 1500 × 12 × 7 = 126,000. So that's what I feel I saved her. So DS gift of 30k isn't out of line

I should have Mastercard paid off within 2-3 months and car by November 2016. Now if I can just stay out of savings / backsliding ..... 2 yrs till I can start drawing on SSA in worst case scenario

[Deleted]

Jul 21, 2015 17:35:56 GMT -5 Ombud said:

DD brings up the fact that she thinks DS got more. That's why I'm asking. I thought it was fairly even as the house would rent for 3k a month but I could be wrong as I still live here too

DD will always thing DS got more. Perspective is skewed. She does not value the rent, nor the gray hairs she has given you.

You are the only one that can decide what is fair. 

DD probably thinks you taking deduction for kids evens out all you spent. Doubt it remotely comes close. But that's what she'll think.

You need to crunch the numbers and decide.

[debthaven]

So I guess I'm only out housing??

No, you're also out the 7 years of your life you've been living like this.

Ombud, when you posted about gifting your DS 50K for his home, I swear, I KNEW this would happen. And perhaps it would have been easier to do the same for her in 2008 (but I think you inherited from your parents recently so that probably wasn't an option.)

The new BF is a recent addition, you didn't have his $400 until recently.

Fair isn't the same as equal. But monetarily, you've spent MUCH more on your DD. 

This said, I'd want them out (I would have wanted them out long ago...) If you are considering gifting more money, could you help buy your DD a smaller place (now that GS1 is off to college) and write things up so they are evened out later with your inheritance? If you let GS1 stay with you during breaks then DD has one less child to house. 

But let me be clear: I wouldn't be doing it for her, I'd be doing it for me, so I could have some peace. 

[msventoux]

I have an 82 year old client who has been the bank of mom for her 3 ne'er do well kids for their entire lives.  She's going to run out of money within the next 5 years.  She's hoping one of the kids will take care of her or she passes on before she runs out of money.  She always dreamed of traveling once her husband passed away but couldn't afford it because of taking care of her adult kids.  It would have been cheaper for her to have sold everything and traveled to her hearts content rather than enabling her now 45-55 year old kids for their entire lives. 

And no, you're not close to even with the kids.  $50K is a drop in the bucket compared to years of expenses, strife and loss of enjoyment of your own environment.