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[Shooby]

Ombud - No amount of rationality is going to convince someone who feels entitled to something. Frankly, you shouldn't even be wasting your time with this. You should be the one who is OFFENDED by approach to you. You have been generous. Honestly, it isn't likely she is going to have some epiphany over your math and think Oh yeah, you are right. When my kids were younger, they got into a sibling rivalry thing where one said I did more for the other, blah, blah. Sorry, but you don't have to ACCEPT that kind of manipulation and guilting into your life. I would just tell her that you have done a Hell of a lot for her and her brother. And, the bank of mom is now closed. There is no "fair share" because you are under no obligation to have been passing out money to grown ass adults in the first place!

[Shooby]

And, not only did you save her rent, she no doubt ate your food, you fed her kids, bought them clothes and ad infinitum.

[Deleted]

Jul 22, 2015 1:44:14 GMT -5 msventoux said:

I have an 82 year old client who has been the bank of mom for her 3 ne'er do well kids for their entire lives.  She's going to run out of money within the next 5 years.  She's hoping one of the kids will take care of her or she passes on before she runs out of money.  She always dreamed of traveling once her husband passed away but couldn't afford it because of taking care of her adult kids.  It would have been cheaper for her to have sold everything and traveled to her hearts content rather than enabling her now 45-55 year old kids for their entire lives. 

And no, you're not close to even with the kids.  $50K is a drop in the bucket compared to years of expenses, strife and loss of enjoyment of your own environment. 

That's exactly what I was trying to say. You can't put a price tag on the toll this has taken on you. IIRC your daughter isn't even nice to you sometimes. And moving her boyfriend in when you don't want him there is disrespectful on both their parts. How much is all that worth?

If you've taken on debt for the first time in many years, and now instead of working PT just to have something to do, you're working because you need to, it's time to rethink your generosity.

[murphath]

Wow, just wow... If one of my three had said something like that to me, I would just tell him/her that since they were so offended/unhappy with what they would inherit, then they would get nothing at all.

What an ingrate!

Ombud: You need to start thinking about your own life and retirement. It's just around the corner, right? Are you staying put or will you sell and move to something smaller? Do you think you have to stay put because of the age of some of your grandkids? Sounds like your daughter uses them to get to you. Not a good position to be in at all.

[debthaven]

Ombud, if you don't want to all live together forever, what solution do YOU see to getting them out of the house / independent?

I would have been SOOOO tempted to link the 50K down payment to your DS renting to your DD (his sister) but I know you can't do that, it's absolutely not fair to your DS. (I don't mean in his house, I had the impression there was a separate apt, but I may have gotten that wrong.)

[The Captain]

It's not fair to beat up on Ombud because as a decent person she's not going to throw the Grandkids out on the street (and I mean this).  I'm pretty sure her DD knows that as well which is why baby #4 appeared no too long ago.

What concern's me more (besides the OP draining her own retirement security) is the example it's setting for the grandkids as far as being self supporting.

[debthaven]

I don't think anybody is beating up on Ombud ... we all know she's been suffering from this situation for many years.

ETA: I'm also concerned that DD is going to expect you to help her other kids with activities / camp / college too, and the youngest is still a baby ... 

[Ombud]

No one here is picking on me. I just want to make sure that my kids are even after reading how uneven cawiau's upbringing was. That's a tear jerker.

Yes, DD's kids expect more help then DS's do ... but then she doesn't see the value of education. And DS didn't bring up how things aren't equal (although he shot me down ASAP re: DD being his tenant unless I bought 1/2 the townhouse instead of gifting 50k which he was more than open to).

Anyway I don't know how to get them out. Sometimes I wonder where her paranoia (re: standard medical / education) comes from and there are those who know us in RL who call her toxic ... but so far GS1 is great so there's hope for the next generation.

I want a few non-retirement unemployed years but I don't know how

[Ombud]

DD has a 3:30 appointment with a lender set up by a local realtor. She's interested in a manufacturer home (sp?) that goes for 87 - 100k. BF has 5 yr work history but don't buyers need a down payment like for a regular house?

[saveinla]

Maybe she thinks you will give her the DP similar to how you gave your son money when he bought the house  .

If it will get her out of the house, go ahead and give her the money, rent out your house and move into a studio or one bedroom condo immediately.

[Ombud]

I'm sure she thinks that but the Bank of Mom has to be closed as I would be borrowing that. I told her I borrowed the money for him at 5%. I'm hoping the lender / realtor combo will reiterate how unrealistic it is

This is why I can't just write another 50k gift:

My budget (the part I stick to bc it's all on autopay):
♤ 1952 net pension
♡ -758.7 (dbl car pymts end 11/15/16)
◇ -250 savings for prop tax / earthquake ins
♧ -100 phone (down from 173)
♤ - 88 pge (my part) 
♡ - 50 water
◇ - 25 garbage
♧ -115 cable
♤ -173 auto / home / umbrella ins
♡ -120 gardener
◇ - 50 charity (yes I give that cash no matter what)
♡ -221 for gas / food. And it works


From my salary of only 1k net in slow months:
♤ $200 lowering to $100 Starbucks
♡ $250 vacations
◇ $150 all GKs (DS & DD)
♧ invest for fun on hold until I finish WIRS
☆ whatever on hold until out of WIRR

In that the realtor also gets paid in a rental agreement, maybe he'll find that for them?

[Ombud]

I'm so mad at me!! I'm a sap!! DD just said they were only 1 verify away from being approved for 187 + he has 7k in his Roth which can be used for a down payment on a MFH that sells for 110k. Why weren't they out b4 if that's true??   

[mollyanna58]

Just be glad they'll be out now.

[zibazinski]

As soon as they're out get rid of that house so you can't be used again.

[Ombud]

My dilemma: I love my house on 1/3 acre (which is huge here) & used to have home office, music room, guest room, only 1 bedroom. Thinking of dumping guest room for exercise room but unless I can find a cottage in Walnut Creek for the same price (protecting prop 13), I just can't let them return. It's complicated in California. My prop taxes are 2700, it'd be 8000 unless the replacement is the same price.

[mmhmm]

Ombud, sweet one, let them buy the manufactured home and move the heck into it! When they're carrying their last box of belongings out the door, tell them in no uncertain terms they're not welcome back - ever - period! As soon as they clear the front porch, have a locksmith on the ready to change all your locks. Do it, dear. You've done all you can do for them, and more. It's time for them to do for them. 

[debthaven]

It's sad that you have to leave a house you love but given the history, I'd really really encourage you to find something else you like and downsize.

Otherwise, like Arnold, DD will be BACK. 

[Deleted]

Ombud, when DD moved out I gave her the furniture that was in her bedroom and my living room furniture. I have a den and never used the living room and didn't want the furniture anyway. I'd already gotten rid of my son's bedroom furniture.

My intent was to paint every room and refinish my wood floors while the rooms were empty, then replace all the furniture. Well, I still haven't gotten around to buying beds or sofas. Why? Because I discovered that not having extra beds and sofas discourages a few people from wanting to stay at my house for extended periods. It's not just my daughter that would move in if I allowed it.

I do have 2 toddler beds in one room so my grandbabies can be comfortable when they spend the night. I'll eventually buy sofas for the living room and a real bed for one of the extra bedrooms, but not yet. People might think it's strange, but I don't care. The rooms I use have beds and sofas and are comfortable.

Don't sell your house if you don't want to. Unless you invite guests to spend the night often, your home doesn't HAVE to be a comfortable place for other people to crash, as long as it's comfortable for you.

ETA: I'm not suggesting you empty your house. Repurpose some of your extra bedrooms into an office, an exercise room, a library, things like that.

ETAA: I must have still been sleep when I read your post. I see you've already thought of that. LOL!

[Shooby]

You just need to live your life independent of her life. What do you want to do? That is what you need to ask yourself.

[Ombud]

I plan on her taking their bedroom furniture (yes I bought it) & the family room sofa / love seat and only replacing the sofa / love seat but with something smaller


Now if only she isn't fabricating again

[Deleted]

Jul 24, 2015 8:28:01 GMT -5 Ombud said:

I plan on her taking their bedroom furniture (yes I bought it) & the family room sofa / love seat and only replacing the sofa / love seat but with something smaller


Now if only she isn't fabricating again

What does that mean?

[Ombud]

She tends to make stuff up. Like yesterday when she spoke to DIL who was at the Drs with GS3. When she got off the phone DD said GS3 was sick. So I texted a get well soon & sad face to GS3 (via DIL) who texted back that he wasn't sick .... just a well toddler check

[sarcasticgirl]

ombud- let me just say, my mom would have slapped me across the face if I had complained to her about not feeling like I got my fair share while living with her for 6 years. 

Actually, my mom would have kicked me out and made me stand on my own two feet.

You are enabling her to act this way. She's grown, I assume around 40- she needs to act like an adult. 

Monetarily, she's winning by thousands over your contribution to your DS. 
I'm not sure why it always seems to work this way. My DH had a sister who has 2 kids, countless boyfriends (2 in jail) and quit a job when she felt like it. She got so much financial support from my ILs... they paid for everything and basically enabled her to do this. Silly DH, became a responsible adult and was never gifted any money except once, his Dad bought him a $700 tv, because they felt bad that they just spend 10K+ on a new car for his sister. 



If anyone has the right to feel slighted, it is DS... but chances are, he won't because he's a responsible adult and feels that standing on his own two feet is the way things SHOULD be. 

It is hard- i'm sure, but you need to set up some rules and boundaries for your daughter, including a timeline to get her out of your house. 

[Ombud]

sarcasticgirl, your history is why I wondered if it was sort of even between my 36 yo DS & 34 yo DD (yep, teen mom)

[zibazinski]

You need to start saying what furniture you're giving her and what you're going to be doing when she's finally out. Make it so there's no excuses to not be actually leaving. Hopefully her feelings will be hurt enough and she actually will leave. I'd be saying the same stuff to the boyfriend. Glad you're finally getting yourself out if my house Don't let her use those grandkids against you. If she doesn't take care of them properly call cps on her. I can't believe the number of my friends being used because of grandchildren blackmail.

[Deleted]

I suggest you stop worrying about it being even. You will never be able to do enough for your daughter to feel like it's enough. That's just how those people are. I have one of those too. My daughter sucks up way more of my resources (time, energy and money) than my son, and before he moved out of state, she had the nerve to express an issue with me dropping him off at work on my way to work. I not-so-nicely told her it's my car and my gas, I can do whatever the hell I want with it. She was living with me at the time, he was not. He had a job, she did not.

He came home this past Christmas and I helped him get an I-phone he wanted. Note, I helped him get it, I didn't pay for the whole thing. DS had mailed me a b-day present (a tablet) and came home bearing gifts. When he first moved out of state, I gave him some money to help him get started and he has not asked me for a penny since. He works and for a few months, worked 2 full time jobs. Before he moved out of state, he asked me for $10 or $20 sometimes, but he also kept my yard neat and my car clean and did odd jobs around my house even though he didn't live here anymore. He didn't care if I paid him or not, he did those things just to help his Momma out. And when he'd ask for a few bucks, he'd offer to do something else to work it off. I usually just gave it to him.

And DD got jealous about me helping him get a phone. She doesn't see that he doesn't expect me to fix all his problems, that he's done things to help me out, he's thoughtful, and he has a JOB, whereas she mostly just complicates my life and I spend a lot of resources on her NEEDS so I'm not all that interested in her wants.

If anybody should be irritated, it should be the kid that's more responsible or mature. DS is more mature in a lot of ways and he's the youngest.

My Mom has spent way more resources on my brother. She couldn't make it even if she tried. I do get angry about it, but not because I want more. I get angry because he upsets her and stresses her out and she can barely take care of herself, let alone him and his kids. I get angry because I know he'll never stand on his own to feet until my Mom cuts him loose and she won't. I don't want my Mom to keel over from a stroke or something because she's always stressed and upset. She actually had a heart attack in November. I wasn't surprised and I don't want her to have another one. She needs to cut my brother loose, for his sake and for hers.

So I see it as the parent and I see it as the child. And I still say you shouldn't worry about what DD thinks about whether it's "even" or not. If it were your son expressing that thought, I'd encourage you to talk about it with him and try to clear the air. But I don't think you owe your daughter an explanation or anything else.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Monetarily, she's winning by thousands over your contribution to your DS.
I'm not sure why it always seems to work this way. My DH had a sister who has 2 kids, countless boyfriends (2 in jail) and quit a job when she felt like it. She got so much financial support from my ILs... they paid for everything and basically enabled her to do this. Silly DH, became a responsible adult and was never gifted any money except once, his Dad bought him a $700 tv, because they felt bad that they just spend 10K+ on a new car for his sister.

OMG that is me and my brother.  Only I've never gotten a $700 TV.

My brother used to throw in my face I live in my grandma's house.  Yeah I do but I pay rent, I handle the property taxes, I pay the utilities and had to take out a $5k loan to fix the roof b/c our parents didn't have the money to do it themselves.

Yeah that is SO MUCH BETTER than him living rent free in their house without a care in the world besides where he'd get his next pot fix.

My parents totally enabled him.

It's been good for everyone that he moved two states away to Colorado.  He's still co-dependent but at least it's not in my face all the time.

I would not try to make it even, you can't make it even b/c people like your daughter Ombud are NEVER happy, they will always want more.   It's their victim mentality.  You could never give your son a dime again as long as you live and she'll still find a way to claim you favor him.

 My brother decided our parents owed him b/c I was born first!  Kinda hard to even the score on that don't ya think?

 You can't win with these people.   If she's that damn unhappy then tell her she is free to move her ass and her boyfriend's ass out of your house.  If you feel you must say the kids can stay but the adults need to go out and support their own ungrateful asses.


If anybody should be irritated, it should be the kid that's more responsible or mature. DS is more mature in a lot of ways and he's the youngest.



If one more person tells me i need to let it go and be grateful I don't "need" the help I am going to punch them.  I don't want to be my brother but at the same time this has really done some damage that will have long last consquences into the future.  I am not going to abandon my parents and smugly tell them that's what they get in thier old age.  So guess who will be left cleaning up the mess?

[debthaven]

If you feel you must say the kids can stay but the adults need to go out and support their own ungrateful asses.

NOOOOOO! I'd be worried that they take you up on the offer to keep the kids. 

[mollyanna58]

My brother used to throw in my face I live in my grandma's house. Yeah I do but I pay rent, I handle the property taxes, I pay the utilities and had to take out a $5k loan to fix the roof b/c our parents didn't have the money to do it themselves.

Yeah that is SO MUCH BETTER than him living rent free in their house without a care in the world besides where he'd get his next pot fix.

So, did he move to CO because pot is now legal there?

[whoisjohngalt]

First of all, your DD is not moving out, no matter what she is approved for.

And second of all (and yes The Captain - you can yell at me if you want) - you shouldn't really be upset about any of this at all.  You should just accept it.  Bc of how you have been describing your DD - there is no way in hell she would have ever ended up homeless on the streets.  She seems to be very good at getting things that she needs.  So, if you REALLY wanted to - you could have evicted her a long time ago.