Do you talk "money"with your friends?

[RoadToRiches]

I was thinking about this lately, since I got in a little argument with my good friend. He was going on a road trip out of state and I said that I really can't go because .. gulp...it's not in a budget. That is exactly what I said. Well, we got into a little argument. He said "Maaann you gotta live a little!" to what I said "Oh I WILL!" lol...he then said to another friend that I was making him feel guilty for going on the trip! lol...

I personally don't really care what others do with their money. I really don't. If they think that I am "not living", whatever that means.. then that's their opinion.

This friend is really good friend of mine. I know he is in some debt, going through divorce and stuff, but really I do not see him changing his ways of life. It's like nothing happened and everything is peachy. I don't know. Maybe it's just me.

Anyways, I have another good friend that him and I are both really tackling our debt. We ALWAYS talk money and we always pump each other up, constantly talking about how awesome it will be when we are both debt free.

I wonder, why it is so "insulting" (??) or makes some people mad when someone else talks about money. I am not telling anyone WHAT to do or that they are doing something wrong. I am just saying what I AM doing. I WANT TO GET OUT OF DEBT SO I CAN RETIRE EARLY. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE DEBT. That is exactly what I say to some. But they just get all weird on me and insulted. It almost seems to me like they get like that because they KNOW that is what THEY should be doing, but they simply don't want to FACE IT and get pissed because I am doing it?

Thoughts?

[Deleted]

People don't always react well when you make changes to better yourself and your life. They prefer you remain the person they've gotten use to. I think sometimes it's because it makes them more aware of what they could be doing better but they don't want to deal with that so they try to keep you on their level or try to make you feel bad instead.

Or they don't want to lose something; their partner in crime, so to speak. Like *friends* who try to get you to have a drink with them after you've stopped drinking, or try to get you to keep partying all the time when you decided to settle down some, or try to get you to keep chasing women when you decide to commit to just one, and on and on. Or encourage you to splurge on things you've determined you can't afford because you have a master plan and you're reigning in your spending. It's about the *friend* and how what you do benefits them (or not) instead of it being about a friend who's happy that you're working towards something beneficial to you.

[money100]

I think you hit the nail on the head with the fact that in most cases, people do know what the right thing to do is but are ignoring it successfully until you show up with your damned "living responsibly" bit.

My MIL is a bit like this with me. I mentioned that DH dropped his wedding ring and it rolled all over the icky floor at the cheap theatre ($2.99 to see Steve Carrell & Tina Fey? Boo-yah!) and she felt that this totally casual, NOT AT ALL ABOUT MONEY, conversation was the perfect ground to explain that we don't have a life, money isn't everything, we're missing out, etc, etc. You've been through it, you know what I'm talking about.

To answer your main question, I used to have a rule about never bringing it up in any context whatsoever. However, one of my friends lost a job, another went with me to a retirement seminar (this one opened up a LOT of convos with many other friends when we shared our newfound knowledge), my family and I are planning a big trip & my inlaws resolved some private money issues which caused my MIL to cut way back on presents which obviously caused some family discussion.

These recent changes caused a lot more dialogue which for the most part, was incredibly positive while also being terrifying in how ill-prepared some older folks are for retirement and how financially illiterate many of my streetwise friends are. I hope to have made a difference in a non-preachy, "just sharing what I learned" kind of way.

[azphx1972]

I talk about money to my best friend all the time, but we're on the same page as far as our views on finances are concerned. I think that's part of why we get along so well. Most of my other friends have different views about money, and it doesn't seem as important to them, so we don't really talk about our finances much.

If I were your friend, and I really wanted you to come along on the trip, I would either offer to pay for your costs or shut up after you told me that you couldn't swing it financially right now. It's too bad that he's trying to guilt you into spending money that you don't have. Maybe he feels like he needs the road trip to destress from his divorce or whatever. In that case, as a friend I'd offer to do something with him that doesn't cost a lot of money and see how he receptive he is to that idea. People are prone to making bad decisions when they're under stress, and going financially in the hole just compounds the problem.

Good luck to you and your friend.

[ZaireinHD]

I had a super best friend and we used to have savings competitions, talk about how much we made in a year, we used to talk about everything. But now that we are more like acquaintances. I'm uncomfortable talking to her about almost anything.
But you are correct people are offended because you are doing the right thing and they know they should also.

indebt Karma = 11

[Elizabeth]

Mar 10, 2011 22:11:32 GMT -5 @pinkcshmere said:

People don't always react well when you make changes to better yourself and your life. They prefer you remain the person they've gotten use to. I think sometimes it's because it makes them more aware of what they could be doing better but they don't want to deal with that so they try to keep you on their level or try to make you feel bad instead.

Or they don't want to lose something; their partner in crime, so to speak. Like *friends* who try to get you to have a drink with them after you've stopped drinking, or try to get you to keep partying all the time when you decided to settle down some, or try to get you to keep chasing women when you decide to commit to just one, and on and on. Or encourage you to splurge on things you've determined you can't afford because you have a master plan and you're reigning in your spending. It's about the *friend* and how what you do benefits them (or not) instead of it being about a friend who's happy that you're working towards something beneficial to you.

Yes, yes, and yes! 100% agree! Karma I have stopped talking about money with my friends because I am trying to straighten things out, and they just keep spending and taking on more debt. I used to give my advice (always solicited BTW) but they always do what they want anyway so now I don't bother. But I will admit it gets under my skin when I hear about them financing their next new purchase, like a new bathroom, or trading in their 3 year old car for something else. They always have a good "reason."

[Peace Of Mind]

Not as much as we used to. People do the dumbest things with their money and then whine how "lucky" we are as they spend, spend, spend. I've learned to avoid money topics because I will try to teach them how to be "lucky" too, but they don't want to change their ways. I've ended a lot of relationships with people who are financial/life train wrecks and I'm much happier.

We constantly turn down invitations to party's, going to clubs, dinner, shows, trips, cruises, etc. My friends get mad at me, but the truth is we are really not interested in a lot of their choices and we are concentrating on retirement and other goals. Most of them understand but then they think we should just do something with them... but they all say that. LOL! I try to go shopping and/or lunch with them so they don't feel like I don't care and we have get together/parties at each others houses at least once a month.

We have an acquaintance that spends like a drunken sailor and then wants to have jewelry parties constantly to make money. She gets mad that we won't host parties for her or buy her stuff. She wants US to finance her poor spending habits. Thank you, but no thank you. Everybody is sick of her so it's not just me.

[sapphire12]

I talk money with friends, but the conversation could be different based on their attitude about money. I've learned to point out facts as opposed to merely expressing my opinion and that seems to go over better with those who aren't the best with their money. One of my friends is horrible with money; she knows it and makes no excuses for it. We have rather enjoyable conversations. Another friend, who is not good with money can find every excuse in the world and blames everyone else for money problems. Geez. Then, there are the few friends who are on the same wavelength, these are enlightening conversations as well.

[Nazgul Girl]

I don't talk money with friends, although I'll say that I bought a such-and-such car and I hope to have it paid off in so many years if they ask my how I can afford a "new" car. In most cases, my husband and I have more money than they do, and spend less of it, so there would be jealousy and unpleasantness if I let them know how I really felt about some of their spending habits. But then again, most friends and acquaintances have never been down as far as I have been, much less come back from it.

I do discuss money issues with some of my family members. I try to teach my daughter as much as possible about money management, based my both my successes and mistakes.

[skubikky]

Mar 10, 2011 21:41:14 GMT -5 RoadToRiches said:

Well, we got into a little argument. He said "Maaann you gotta live a little!" to what I said "Oh I WILL!" lol...he then said to another friend that I was making him feel guilty for going on the trip! lol...

What he heard and what you said might be two different things.
Saying, "it's not in the budget" might make it appear that it's out of your hands. The real answer was, I choose not to as I have other priorities for my money. It might not be a money issue in that he just might have been disappointed that you couldn't go.

Mar 10, 2011 21:41:14 GMT -5 RoadToRiches said:

This friend is really good friend of mine. I know he is in some debt, going through divorce and stuff, but really I do not see him changing his ways of life. It's like nothing happened and everything is peachy. I don't know. Maybe it's just me.

Yes, he's probably going through a tough time. And it's certainly not up to you to stand in judgement. You obviously have had your own personal issues. In your case financial ones and might try to understand that each person's priorities differ.

Mar 10, 2011 21:41:14 GMT -5 RoadToRiches said:

I wonder, why it is so "insulting" (??) or makes some people mad when someone else talks about money. I am not telling anyone WHAT to do or that they are doing something wrong. I am just saying what I AM doing. I WANT TO GET OUT OF DEBT SO I CAN RETIRE EARLY. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE DEBT. That is exactly what I say to some. But they just get all weird on me and insulted. It almost seems to me like they get like that because they KNOW that is what THEY should be doing, but they simply don't want to FACE IT and get pissed because I am doing it?

Thoughts?

You remind me of someone who has recently quit smoking and then becomes judgmental regarding those who still smoke. Financial decisions and issues are very personal. Why are you discussing this with people? Keep it to yourself. Maybe it has to do with the way you sound. Holier than thou kind of thing perhaps. Which of course is amusing because you got yourself in this position by making mistakes. One would hope you'd be humbled.

Because, in the end, it's your personal life...no one really cares. From the tone of your post I think that you have some need to feel superior to these supposed "friends" probably due to other self-esteem issues. It's played out on these boards everyday. It's not often that we can be objective about our own behavior.
JMHO.

[RoadToRiches]

Some good replies.

I came to the conslusion that I have 3 type of friends:

1. Those who are openly willing to talk about money. Not as much about how much they make and all the details, but about what they are going through and if they do or do not have debt, etc. This is my friend that I am doing the debt payoff with. We both know round number how much we are in debt and roughly how much each of us makes. Even what we budget for fun or gas. These type of conversations are really cool and makes me feel like I have someone to talk to not just "think" it in my head. For example I would say something like "Man, I budgeted 100 bucks for gas, but I think I will have to adjust it for next paycheck"..stuff like that.

2. Those who know for sure they are making bad decisions but just don't want to change at all. They figure they will work extra hours and the gratification of the item they just purchased is worth just pile it on top of everything else, so they work 12 hour shifts for 6-7 days. I have a friend like that. He openly tells me in a joking way that they are in debt. But yet, they buy all this crap.

3. Those who have debt, keep quiet about it and deep inside are ashamed because they don't want other friends to see that really, all their "show" and "looks" are financed and they are not doing that good. They know it deep inside, but they don't want to face it. They can't even think about toning down their expectations, stop trying to keep up with others and just want to continue living in this lie. But over time, the whole thing just crumbles down and truth comes out. Those friends dont' like to talk about money - paying off debt to be exact. This is type of friend that I was talking to.

I think I might of come out too strong to him because I am so pumped about my plan and been working really hard this year without folding to keep everything glued together. I think best thing to do is to just shut the hell up and don't say anything and just do my thing.

[RoadToRiches]

Good stuff skubikky.

Well, I know that I screwed up and I say it to my friends too. I just say something to the effect that I am just simply sick of paying all these bills and want to get out of them and how stupid I was to get into it. I am not discussing how much I make, what's the exact amount of debt that I have, what my payment schedule is. I just simply said that , first time when he asked, I really can't go. Then second time few hours later, I said.. if I knew about it earlier, then maybe I could go, but this weekend I can't because I didn't budget for it and I have stuff I gotta pay. That's pretty much it.

It probably has to do with the way I sound, so you are right. I just get so passionate about this whole thing and I am overall very excited person lol...so I get into this talk and sometimes maybe I come out wrong. But I do not say anything about what THEY should do! I just say what I AM doing. I think it would be different if I was telling them that they are doing this or that wrong, but that's not the case at all!

[cytoglycerine]

Mar 11, 2011 1:57:39 GMT -5 Peace Of Mind said:

People do the dumbest things with their money and then whine how "lucky" we are as they spend, spend, spend.

This is my absolute pet peeve...Just thinking about the people who've called me "lucky" in the past, and their reasons for it, is getting me all riled up! I was once called lucky because I have retirement funds saved up, and several short-term cash savings accounts...Really?? I'm Lucky??!? HOW!?!!!!??! Do you think I woke up one morning and this money was just sitting there, all properly invested (i hope lol) and nicely segregated into these tidy little accounts?!?! I sacrificed for YEARS to get to where I'm at today, all the while you were living it up going out for dinner, buying new phones and clothes and TVs and just generally being the "grasshopper" while I was being the "ant". But I'm the "lucky" one. Bite me.


Sorry, rant over.


To answer the OP, I do talk money with friends/family, but I try to limit these conversations to being only those whose values and actions align with mine. Although sometimes it tends to come up out of the blue with other people....A few months ago, my husband's cousin and her new BF came to visit us for the evening and have dinner. It was the first time we met this guy (he was pretty cool), and somehow, him and my Hubby got into a money conversation. Hubby mentioned how I've got a death grip on the finances (which is something the two of us mutually agreed upon, Hubby has no interest in managing the money, and I'd whither away and die if I couldn't manage it lol) and how he gets a spending allowance twice a month. This guy started laughing and making fun of Hubby's allowance, basically insinuating that he was a dork for letting his wife control his spending. Hubby just stared at him and said "How much do YOU have in YOUR retirement savings account"...The guy stopped dead in his track and said "Uhhh...Let's not talk about that". Mmmmhmmm, thought so. Thankfully, the convo ended there, and no feelings were hurt.

[Deleted]

well I do talk money with my one friend. She took out loans for grad school (necessary for her career path), and she was able to completely pay them off in 3 years by hunkering down and living with her parents. She has a job that she loves and pays well (plus she does per diem work), she just paid off her car, has no debt whatsoever, and is currently looking to buy her own place (a townhouse because the resale value on condos is crap). We exchange tidbits on how to save money doing everyday things. I tell her how I save money buying groceries, and she's amazed at the things we can save money on.

[Small Biz Owner]

Not at all. Except to comment on gas prices or stock market up and downs.
Trying to tell others how to spend or save or budget is just asking for a lot of discord.

[cael]

I only talk money with friends in a few situations: if they brought it up & asked for advice (in which case I'm as general and vague as possible so I don't piss them off telling them what to do!), or if a friend & I are having a discussion about retirement savings or student loans or anything and I know they manage their money well (or similarly to me). I have one friend who, when I got my new job, would make the occasional comment like "well you don't have to worry about much, $xx grand is a really good salary!" and stuff like that, and it bothered me soooo much. (she only found out because another friend told her - that friend just read the job description that stated the starting salary) It's annoying... she stopped doing that luckily.

Jenny I have a friend like that and I talk money with her sometimes because we're on the same page, and we both admire things the other has been able to do or pay off or save. I actually like talking money with my like-minded friends. With not-so-like-minded friends, I avoid it like the plague 'cuz inevitably, I'd say something harsh and I'd regret it!

[happyscooter]

'This is my absolute pet peeve...Just thinking about the people who've called me "lucky" in the past, and their reasons for it, is getting me all riled up! I was once called lucky because I have retirement funds saved up, and several short-term cash savings accounts...Really?? I'm Lucky??!? '

I heard a saying the other day. "The harder I work, the luckier I am.'

Boy, that's the truth! ;D

[cytoglycerine]

Mar 11, 2011 9:36:48 GMT -5 happyscooter said:

'This is my absolute pet peeve...Just thinking about the people who've called me "lucky" in the past, and their reasons for it, is getting me all riled up! I was once called lucky because I have retirement funds saved up, and several short-term cash savings accounts...Really?? I'm Lucky??!? '

I heard a saying the other day. "The harder I work, the luckier I am.'

Boy, that's the truth! ;D

Yep!! Definitely true for me! Hubby has a saying with a similar attitude - To all those people who spend frivolously, and then can't cope with a minor financial obstacle, so they whine that life is always "pooping" on them - "You don't like it? Get out of the toilet!!"

[qofcc]

I do with co-workers more than friends. We work in finance and like to bounce ideas off each other, so usually we talk about things in theory or big picture strategies, not our personal details.

I don't bring up money with friends, but when they ask for opinions I like to help them explore the options and point out the pros & cons. I try to avoid telling them what to do, but I think it's fun to help them brainstorm and figure out what they want and I'll usually share things that worked or didn't work for me.

I avoid the topic with family (except my husband & daughter who I try to educate) unless they're asking for money. Borrowed money or solicited gifts always come with advice on what they need to do to avoid asking me for money in the future, that's part of the deal.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I talk money with some friends and family and not others. It really depends on our relationship.

[cytoglycerine]

Mar 11, 2011 10:05:16 GMT -5 @cheapcat said:

A coworker comes in at least 1/2 hour late every day, doesn't start acutally working for at least another 1/2 hour, is constantly on the phone for obvious not work issues & then constantly complains about how she has soooo much work to do that she'll never get it done. Whnever she asks if i have X or Y done she'll then say how "lucky" I am, even though my workload has been almost double hers for the past 2 years. Aaaaggghhh.....

Haha I thought you were going to say that this co-worker does all this slacking, and then come raise/bonus/promotion time, they get passed up, and then they turn into a green-eyed monster and complain about how "unfair" it is and how "lucky" you are to have gotten rewarded. Grrr!! My blood is boiling and it's not even a real situation, just what I thought you were going to say was the situation!!! LOL

[busymom]

Yup, I remember how "lucky" I was when DH & I built our first house before the kids were born. DH had a killer job working 6 or 7 days a week. I had a full-time and a part-time job. So between the 2 of us, we were squirreling away money toward a healthy down payment, while some of our friends were partying their 20's away. Lucky, right?

indebt, in a few years or more, you will have the last laugh when you have all of your debts paid off & a healthy retirement fund. Then your friends can call you "lucky" too!

[kimber45]

We have acquaintances too that whine about being broke, etc but in the next breath talk about the concert they went to or show off their new tattoo. Urgh!!

[Gardening Grandma]

I generally do not talk finances with our friends. We are better off than most of them and they attribute it to "luck". They ignore the fact that we both worked for over 30 years for the same company while some of them were exploring other options.
When asked for advice, I try to give the best advice I can within the limits of the information I'm given, but friends rarely ask for advice.
One of my sons does, from time to time.

[midjd]

DH's sis and cousin are two of those people who complain that "life hates them" because they can't afford a new car, or go on vacation. In both cases, this is the result of several years of extremely poor choices that are finally coming back around to bite them.

Edited because I didn't really answer the OP I try not to discuss anything specific with friends, but I have one who also recently bought a house, so we'll talk about repair costs and similar home-related things.

DH's cousin hit him up for money about 6 months ago, and when DH told the cousin he would have to talk about it with me, but that the cousin needed to think about finding a job (he quit his last one almost 4 years ago), DH got to hear that he was "lucky" for having a wife who forced him to save money and didn't spend him into debt. I did like that ;D

[kdamron]

Made the mistake of 'helping' a very good friend and her husband with their finances once. I took a look at their bank account, counted up the 30 some odd NSF charges (most for charges less than $10) and told her for heavens sake if you're going to live beyond your means at least take out money in cash to pay for all those stupid charges instead of using the debit card and get just one NSF fee instead of 10.

We didn't remain friends long after that. Go figure...

[Artemis Windsong]

The spendthrift braggers get to me. Very annoying. I like the smart spenders better. and a lot of them are wealthy.

One friend gave me a great investment idea I went into so we'll talk about that.

[tea4me]

I have a few friends that understand what it means to be financially responsible. They are the only ones I talk to about money.

My other friends live off their parents, SOs, or the gov. I have been avoiding them more and more.

[tractor]

I usually confine any money talk to retirement planning. We often compare notes about different stocks, and how much we put away for retirement. Although I have no idea how much money anyone actually has, it does seem that we are all at about the same point in our lives. If someone were to ask, I'd probably share more detail with them, but no one has asked.

[TrixAre4Kids]

I have only one friend (from work) that I talk finances with. We are union, so get paid the same wage. We talk about our hopes for retirement and 401k's, and financial planner advice etc.
She is a cancer survivor, never knowing if it will return so she doesn't have the same priorities and strict budget as I do. Meaning, she spends more here and now, while I save more...It's all about your life and your priorities. I will probably be able to retire before her, while she lives more in the moment.