Asking about a promotion at work (new hire)

[emma1420]

So we just hired a new person (X), and yesterday was their first day.  The position that X was hired into was newly created coordinator position. We have needed this position for the last several years.  We are all very happy that we have someone on board.

Part of the procedure that we have where we work is that all new hires meet with the staff in the various departments to get an idea about what they do.   We do this because we are a small organization and our jobs are often highly dependent on others in the organization.  This position will be working with various departments providing support to those departments as needed.  

When I met with X yesterday, X only asked one question.   What do you need to do to get promoted, and how does that work?  I found that a little odd given that it was X's first day on the job.  As some context X was in a more senior role with their previous employer, and has take at least three steps down to take this role (X was let go from their previous job due to "restructuring"), so I understand that they want to climb back up the ladder as soon as possible.  I just found it odd that would be the only question that X had for me.   Is this normal for the first day?   To me it seemed to be overly ambitious.  However, we don't have a lot of turn over (we perhaps hire 1-2 staff a year), and so I don't know if this is normal or not any more?


 

[Phoenix84]

No, it's odd to ask such questions.

[hoops902]

I don't think it sounds that odd.  That was one of the new hire things we did during training "Here's the logical progression of your position, if you want ot move into the next position up, these are the kinds of things taht would lead you there".

What better time to figure that kind of thing out than Day 1?  If you ask 6 months in it sounds like you're angling for a promotion, then everyone says "It's only been 6 months and already they think they're gonna get promoted?".  Think of the question as "What does the company value in employees?".  It also might be a technical question.  Are there a limited number of spots available?  Can everyone be "Job Position 3" if qualified, or are there a certain number of 1s, 2s, and 3s and they need to wait for an opening. 

[Opti]

I don't find it odd either. This person wants to know what gets rewarded in the organization with promotions. I think X is telling you they know how to be promoted and perhaps they believe you know your local office politics.

[Lizard Queen]

Person X sounds annoying.

 (I wonder what it means that I am so annoyed by ambition...probably nothing good.) 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

I'm not sure what your position is, so it's hard to determine whether or not it was appropriate.  For my last employer, it was explained very clearly how the system worked from HR, and the info was available online.   If this information is not available, how else was this person to find out about this?

[cronewitch]

They should ask in the interview what the prospects for promotion are if any.

[shanendoah]

I ask those kinds of questions in the interview process, so Day 1 seems kind of late to be asking that, to me...

[ArchietheDragon]

Jul 7, 2015 12:19:02 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

I ask those kinds of questions in the interview process, so Day 1 seems kind of late to be asking that, to me...

Maybe she is asking for the "real" process.... not the shiny nice one they present to interviewees, but that no one really follows. 

[dannylion]

Since it was her first day and the purpose of meeting with you was apparently not to discuss her career prospects but to begin to learn her job, I think it was odd to the point of being something of a red flag.  She was supposed to be meeting with you to learn what you do so she can do her job, but it seems she could not even pretend enough interest in her new job and learning to do it well to avoid focusing entirely on herself on day 1. I would wonder just how much effort she's going to put into doing the actual job well as opposed to doing only those parts of it she thinks will get her promoted.  She wasn't hired to get promoted; she was hired to do a job you need to have done.  Promotion might and probably should be the result of performing well, but making it look like promotion was more important to her than performing well doesn't make a very good impression, IMHO. 

[bobosensei]

I think what is odd is that it was the only question the person asked.  I mean it is fine to ask about promotions, but you need to do the job you are hired for until you get the promotion...

[zibazinski]

Well, you can ask DS how well that works. He just had a 26 year old promoted over him because he doesn't put himself out there. He thinks because he's brilliant, someone will notice and promote him. Sigh. We have had this discussion, him and I before, it just doesn't sink in. Maybe this time it did.

[tskeeter]

Jul 7, 2015 12:45:50 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Well, you can ask DS how well that works. He just had a 26 year old promoted over him because he doesn't put himself out there. He thinks because he's brilliant, someone will notice and promote him. Sigh. We have had this discussion, him and I before, it just doesn't sink in. Maybe this time it did.

Don't bet on it.  I've watched my brother, with the sme philosophy, get aced out for the last 40 years.

The problem with being brilliant is that you see problems coming and prevent them from happening.  That means no drama for management to get drawn into.  No drama = no opportunity to rush to the rescue and be a hero.  No hero = no visibility with management.  No visibility with management = the young snot who probably screwed stuff up and had to fix it got the visibility and the promotion.

[zibazinski]

I'll remind hm of this. Thank you.

[happyhoix]

Well I guess it would depend on how you met her.

If someone brought her to you and said "Hey, this is employee X, she'll be doing ABC, she's going around visiting each group to see how everything fits together" and then her only question was 'what do I have to do to get promoted" that seems odd. She should have been focusing on learning her new job.

If, however, you met her in the break room getting coffee, and you introduced yourself as having been with the company for twenty years and worked your way up from the receptionist job to your current job, I don't think it's odd at all.

Context is everything.

[justme]

Jul 7, 2015 13:58:32 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I'll remind hm of this. Thank you.

Or just get good at keeping the bosses informed. You see something wrong and fix it before it's a problem you send manager a note. Something like I fixed x by doing y, just wanted to let you know in case someone asks you about the change. Ie making them think you're telling them for their benefit.

[zibazinski]

Another good point.

[emma1420]

Jul 7, 2015 12:08:08 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

I'm not sure what your position is, so it's hard to determine whether or not it was appropriate.  For my last employer, it was explained very clearly how the system worked from HR, and the info was available online.   If this information is not available, how else was this person to find out about this?

I am about two levels more senior that this person.   As we are small organization there isn't a nice and clear path to advancement.  Typically, promotion involves a new position being created.  And, it's more a case of you taking on new duties, getting a new title, and keeping a lot of your old duties (although you do eventually get to phase some of them out over time).  However, I know this was covered during the interview process.  One, because I also interviewed "X" and they asked, and two because I know that my boss (who hired this person) always discusses this with applicants.

 I guess, I was a little surprised as it was the only question that was asked.  There were no other questions posed about the work or about what types of work I may assign "X".  

[ArchietheDragon]

sounds like a bad fit. Start posing the ad again.

[emma1420]

Jul 7, 2015 14:57:38 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Well I guess it would depend on how you met her.

If someone brought her to you and said "Hey, this is employee X, she'll be doing ABC, she's going around visiting each group to see how everything fits together" and then her only question was 'what do I have to do to get promoted" that seems odd. She should have been focusing on learning her new job.

If, however, you met her in the break room getting coffee, and you introduced yourself as having been with the company for twenty years and worked your way up from the receptionist job to your current job, I don't think it's odd at all.

Context is everything.

In this case, we were in a conference room for an hour long discussion of the work involved, etc.  I didn't find the question itself that odd, more that it was the only question that was asked.  Especially, given that the meeting was about the items I work on and how this new role fits into my work.

[Deleted]

It would be appropriate question for the new hire's manager or HR.

Did you have a presentation ready for them on what you expected from them in the new role, or how you interface with them? Usually I provide them the framework of how the groups/departments work together & then ask if they have questions. If their only question after that was how to get promoted, I'd be convinced that they didn't listen to/understand a damn thing I'd said!!

[emma1420]

Jul 7, 2015 16:07:14 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

sounds like a bad fit. Start posing the ad again.

My boss thinks X is a great hire, so that is unlikely to happen.  And the person is nice and has the potential to do well, but to me comes across as overly ambitious given that they've been employed here less than 48 hours.

[emma1420]

Jul 7, 2015 16:08:07 GMT -5 @rockit said:

It would be appropriate question for the new hire's manager or HR.

Did you have a presentation ready for them on what you expected from them in the new role, or how you interface with them? Usually I provide them the framework of how the groups/departments work together & then ask if they have questions. If their only question after that was how to get promoted, I'd be convinced that they didn't listen to/understand a damn thing I'd said!!

Kind of a presentation.  This person won't be working with me just yet (there are two other people who have items that take priority), but I did give them an overview of what I did and what they might be assisting me with in the future.  I also provided a detailed cheat sheet of all the major projects associated with our department and which staff member was responsible for those projects.   And asked them if they had any questions about my work or anything from our department.  This person did seem pretty disinterested in the information.   They asked no questions at all about the information I provided.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 7, 2015 16:09:03 GMT -5 emma1420 said:

Jul 7, 2015 16:07:14 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

sounds like a bad fit. Start posing the ad again.

My boss thinks X is a great hire, so that is unlikely to happen.  And the person is nice and has the potential to do well, but to me comes across as overly ambitious given that they've been employed here less than 48 hours.

I was wondering if this was that person but then I blanked on who'd posted it and was too lazy to go look up the other thread.  So thank you for clearing up my confusion. 

[Deleted]

Sounds like this is a perfect example as to why you do not hire over-skilled people for jobs. Unless they have an intentional reason that they are down leveling; they are just going to be a pain-in-the-ass!

My last ex-boss was a nightmare this way. ooooo - look at all the skills we can get for this rock bottom price, because they are desperate for work they will take it. I really didn't like that boss at all.

[emma1420]

Jul 7, 2015 16:36:50 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Be nice to your future boss. ....

That is never going to happen  I hope if that happens I'll be long gone.

In all honesty, if someone is pretty good they get promoted to the next rung pretty quickly.   However, this person left a director level position, and the only directors in our organization have terminal degrees and/or 30+ years of experience.  This person has neither.  And, no matter how great my boss thinks an employee is, she doesn't have the power to promote anyone.  She can recommend a promotion, but it's ultimately the CEO's call (the pitfall of being in a small organization).  This person has also never been in one job for more than 18 months, so I would be surprised if they'd wait around for a couple decades to get back to where they were at the old organization. 

[kent]

I don't like the new person at all - this will turn into a nightmare employee within six months.

[tskeeter]

Jul 7, 2015 13:58:32 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I'll remind hm of this. Thank you.

I think the real key to career success is to help your boss, and your boss's boss understand what you are doing for them.

As painful as it is, this means sit down once a month and send your boss and your boss's boss an email that tells them what you did.

For example: In consultation with Bob (the Engineering Manager), concieved and developed a strategy to increase the buildable square footage of the property we just purchased from 25% to 50% of the property through a creative approach to application of local zoning ordinances.  Being able to build on more of the property will allow us to increase our output by about another $5 million a year, or about $120 miilion in current dollars, over the next 25 years.

Wouldn't you think this person is a superstar?  They just made you $120 million!

The literal translation of this example is: I told Bob to move the parking spaces required by the zoning ordinances to leased property under the power line adjacent to the new property.  This allows us to build a building that is twice as big, with twice the capacity. 

You can let everybody think that Bob is brilliant, or you can take credit for your own brilliant idea.  And give credit to Bob for working with you to flesh the concept out.  Both you and Bob can get promotions, instead of just Bob.  

[tskeeter]

Jul 7, 2015 17:23:34 GMT -5 kent said:

I don't like the new person at all - this will turn into a nightmare employee within six months.

Sounds like  a person you want to help find a job that is more in line with their experience and aspirations as soon as possible.  Inside or outside the company.  Who knows, they could end up being a great co-worker or boss.  Working for a great boss isn't a bad thing. 

[thyme4change]

We are told that if we don't look ambitious and eager in interviews and we should say clever things like "In 5 years I will have your job."  But once we get in the door we are suppose to bury our ambition and just do the job we have been given.  

I stopped giving jobs to people who advertised their ambition.  My department was too small, too specialized and too stagnant for a lot of opportunity - so I figured they would bail out in a couple of years for some greener grass.