emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 7, 2015 20:28:02 GMT -5
We are told that if we don't look ambitious and eager in interviews and we should say clever things like "In 5 years I will have your job." But once we get in the door we are suppose to bury our ambition and just do the job we have been given. I stopped giving jobs to people who advertised their ambition. My department was too small, too specialized and too stagnant for a lot of opportunity - so I figured they would bail out in a couple of years for some greener grass. I don't think it's a bad thing if someone is ambitious and wants to get ahead. However, I also think as a prospective employee its critical to do your due diligence about the organization before you accept the position. However, I also think that employers need to be clear and realistic about the opportunities for advancement with potential employees. This is small organization, we have several great employees who have worked here for years and who have never been promoted. Promotions, especially past the first rung are few and very far between. X is also reasonably young (late 20s or early 30s) and changed jobs relatively frequently (every year or so) to take more senior positions. I am sure X is frustrated to some degree that they are in a job that is similar to their first job upon college graduation and wants to get ahead. i just don't know that the best way to do that is to ask how to get promoted on your first day without asking any other questions about the job you were hired to do.
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flamingo
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Post by flamingo on Jul 7, 2015 20:42:28 GMT -5
I work with someone who sounds similar to X-fairly young, was in a a bad position, needed out, and took a lateral step for this position, with the same basic title for the same pay, moved from a LCOLA to a HCOLA. She's been with our company for 6 months now. First couple weeks, this employee was great. Head down, nose to the grindstone, getting stuff done. Attending trainings, asking questions to figure things then. Then week 3 or 4 hits. This person starts talking about how they have a PhD. And how said PhD means they should be making more money by now and how they shouldn't still be in a "assistant" director position. And how their PhD means they know as much about how to do the job as the boss and others on the management team, and starts asking how to advance in the company. It is SO HARD to work with this person. Every conversation devolves into how can this person get ahead. And this person doesn't listen to any advice, because, again, the PhD. Some of the angst is because this person has a hard time making ends meet on the salary in our city. But (as I really want to point out but don't ) the PhD should have helped her make a budget to know that she couldn't make ends meet on that salary in our city. I feel for you. Hopefully your situation doesn't devolve as badly as mine has. Because the DRAMA this person's PhD brings is more than I can handle most days.
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on Jul 8, 2015 5:33:33 GMT -5
Giving X the benefit of the doubt: Is it possible X needs time to sit down, think thru and integrate all the different info she is getting from all of you?
However, job history of 18 months/job is a BIG red flag IMHO. Most new hires are worthless for about 6 months. Slighly productive the next 6 monhs. Can become assets after about a year (I was a team leader in my old job).
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 8, 2015 8:09:39 GMT -5
I work with someone who sounds similar to X-fairly young, was in a a bad position, needed out, and took a lateral step for this position, with the same basic title for the same pay, moved from a LCOLA to a HCOLA. She's been with our company for 6 months now. First couple weeks, this employee was great. Head down, nose to the grindstone, getting stuff done. Attending trainings, asking questions to figure things then. Then week 3 or 4 hits. This person starts talking about how they have a PhD. And how said PhD means they should be making more money by now and how they shouldn't still be in a "assistant" director position. And how their PhD means they know as much about how to do the job as the boss and others on the management team, and starts asking how to advance in the company. It is SO HARD to work with this person. Every conversation devolves into how can this person get ahead. And this person doesn't listen to any advice, because, again, the PhD. Some of the angst is because this person has a hard time making ends meet on the salary in our city. But (as I really want to point out but don't ) the PhD should have helped her make a budget to know that she couldn't make ends meet on that salary in our city. I feel for you. Hopefully your situation doesn't devolve as badly as mine has. Because the DRAMA this person's PhD brings is more than I can handle most days. I understand how annoying it can be to work with someone like this. It is also sad to see someone so unhappy. This person worked hard to do all the "right" things, and now her life has ended up someone she doesn't want to be. I get that she isn't doing the right thing now by wearing her unhappiness on her sleeve. Clearly her frontal lobe has been derailed by her emotions.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 8, 2015 8:44:26 GMT -5
I don't think it's a bad thing if someone is ambitious and wants to get ahead. However, I also think as a prospective employee its critical to do your due diligence about the organization before you accept the position. However, I also think that employers need to be clear and realistic about the opportunities for advancement with potential employees. This is small organization, we have several great employees who have worked here for years and who have never been promoted. Promotions, especially past the first rung are few and very far between. X is also reasonably young (late 20s or early 30s) and changed jobs relatively frequently (every year or so) to take more senior positions. I am sure X is frustrated to some degree that they are in a job that is similar to their first job upon college graduation and wants to get ahead. i just don't know that the best way to do that is to ask how to get promoted on your first day without asking any other questions about the job you were hired to do.Just to play devils advocate here - so you met, explained what it was you might be asking her to do on future projects, and she got it, she didn't have any questions about the work. And in fact, many questions aren't relavent until you are actually doing a particular project, so - having worked several levels above this one previously - she got it, or as much as she was going to get it without taking on a specific project, and she knew that and went on to her question. Also - why is the promotion question NOT about the job she was hired to do? Because - unless the answer was sleep with the boss - isn't it going to really underscore what about her current job is actually valued by the organization? I guess I am of the philosophy that you focus on the job you were hired to do at least initially. You have to prove that you can contribute in that role before you start talking about getting a promotion once you start the job. However, I also believe that it's critical be relatively cautious the first few weeks/months into a new job. It takes time to figure out the organization and department's culture, and it takes time to figure how to do the job and what opportunities are available to prove your worth. I also work for an organization where it takes most people a good year to figure how to do their job, even when the tasks seem straight forward on paper, and even when the person comes in with experience. I don't have an issue with discussing advancement during the interview, I think that is a critical and important piece of information that most potential employees want to know. However, I think that is the time to ask that question until you've been employed for awhile.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 8, 2015 8:56:10 GMT -5
Giving X the benefit of the doubt: Is it possible X needs time to sit down, think thru and integrate all the different info she is getting from all of you?
However, job history of 18 months/job is a BIG red flag IMHO. Most new hires are worthless for about 6 months. Slighly productive the next 6 monhs. Can become assets after about a year (I was a team leader in my old job).
That is possible. And I know this person indicated in their interview that they wanted a place to stay for awhile. For me, it's going to come down to how good they are at the job they were hired to do. If they work hard, do the work assigned, and take some initiative to contribute to the team, then they will do well and probably get promoted over the next year or two (which was my response when this person asked about promotion). My biggest concern at the moment is that this person focuses all their time on duties not assigned to them because that is what they want to do.
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marvholly
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Post by marvholly on Jul 9, 2015 5:41:31 GMT -5
Giving X the benefit of the doubt: Is it possible X needs time to sit down, think thru and integrate all the different info she is getting from all of you?
However, job history of 18 months/job is a BIG red flag IMHO. Most new hires are worthless for about 6 months. Slighly productive the next 6 monhs. Can become assets after about a year (I was a team leader in my old job).
That is possible. And I know this person indicated in their interview that they wanted a place to stay for awhile. For me, it's going to come down to how good they are at the job they were hired to do. If they work hard, do the work assigned, and take some initiative to contribute to the team, then they will do well and probably get promoted over the next year or two (which was my response when this person asked about promotion). My biggest concern at the moment is that this person focuses all their time on duties not assigned to them because that is what they want to do. Major red flag.. Prediction: gone one way or another in about 6-9 months.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Jul 9, 2015 5:42:10 GMT -5
That is the problem with hiring someone in her situation - also, if she is already rubbing you the wrong way it makes me wonder if her being downsized out of her director level job was an easy way for her previous employer to correct a hiring mistake.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jul 9, 2015 5:52:12 GMT -5
Doesn't sound like ambition to me. Sounds more like a sense of entitlement.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 9, 2015 6:39:28 GMT -5
That is the problem with hiring someone in her situation - also, if she is already rubbing you the wrong way it makes me wonder if her being downsized out of her director level job was an easy way for her previous employer to correct a hiring mistake. X was in their previous job a little less than a year. During that time their CEO was let go and a new person was brought in. That's when the restructing occurred, although there is a person in X's previous position so the restructuring didn't eliminate X's position. To me this is a case of a new CEO coming in and realizing X wasn't a good fit and firing them (despite X saying it was a restructuring). My boss new X's old CEO, and thought she was unfairly dismissed. My boss also believes that this CEO was brought on with the idea that they would also bring their "team" of staff. So my in bosses mind X was a victim of circumstance. I know that happens. However, I also think that there had to have been major staffing issues if the board felt that they needed a new CEO with a built in staff.
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