ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
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Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jun 19, 2015 20:46:36 GMT -5
He committed murder - and it was premeditated.
(Not to mention, a hate crime...)
No need to take up time & resources for a lengthy trial and long prison sentence (costing even more money for feeding, clothing & housing him for 20+ yrs - this is one case where I'm 100% in favor of capital punishment. Bring on the lethal injection.
This young man probably won't reform if he can plan and execute such a crime at his age - and sticking him in prison will only make him a more hard-core thug - or someone's prison bitch.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 19, 2015 21:02:16 GMT -5
Something to think about.....
In an analysis of FBI and other federal government data, the non-profit Violence Policy Center said Americans are far more likely to hurt themselves or others when handling a lethal weapon. In 2012, it said, only 259 “justifiable homicides” involving a private citizen were reported, compared to 8,342 criminal homicides committed with a gun.
Put another way, for every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. And that does not take into account “tens of thousands” of gun-related suicides and unintentional shootings.
The influential National Rifle Association contends that “guns are necessary for self-defence,” said Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center in Washington.
“But this gun industry propaganda has no basis in fact,” he said in a statement.
“In fact, in a nation of more than 300 million firearms, it is striking how rarely guns are used in self-defense.”
www.rawstory.com/2015/06/guns-rarely-used-for-self-defense-in-us-there-are-32-criminal-homicides-for-every-1-justifiable-shooting/
I would say the same for criminal homicides, only 8342 out of 300 million.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 19, 2015 21:40:32 GMT -5
It is a hate crime and there is additional penalty. The problem in trying him in South Carolina courts, where he will have to be tried, is that South Carolina (and 4 other states) have no hate crime laws. So South Carolina cannot charge him with a hate crime. I don't know if the guy can be tried in federal court where hate crimes are recognized. The thing is, from a legal standpoint, does it matter?
He's either going to get life in prison or the death penalty whether it's a hate crime or not. Can't get harsher penalties than those. Plus, truth be told, he's probably more likely to get executed under South Carolina laws than under federal laws. Federal executions are rare. There's still debate as to whether the Boston marathon bomber will really be executed.
Phoenix-FYI Why Dylann Roof has been charged with murder, and not with a hate crime
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 19, 2015 22:43:00 GMT -5
Yes, bc I think there is an additional penalty or something. I also think it's important bc this is going to be an event that will be remembered for a long time and I think it's important for people to remember the true motive behind this horrible massacre. It is a hate crime and there is additional penalty. The problem in trying him in South Carolina courts, where he will have to be tried, is that South Carolina (and 4 other states) have no hate crime laws. So South Carolina cannot charge him with a hate crime. I don't know if the guy can be tried in federal court where hate crimes are recognized. If they charge for a hate crime it becomes possible to use RICO statutes for prosecution. That is certainly a possibility in this case, considering the patches seen on his jacket in one of the pictures taken prior to this incident.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 19, 2015 22:56:22 GMT -5
It is a hate crime and there is additional penalty. The problem in trying him in South Carolina courts, where he will have to be tried, is that South Carolina (and 4 other states) have no hate crime laws. So South Carolina cannot charge him with a hate crime. I don't know if the guy can be tried in federal court where hate crimes are recognized. If they charge for a hate crime it becomes possible to use RICO statutes for prosecution. That is certainly a possibility in this case, considering the patches seen on his jacket in one of the pictures taken prior to this incident. mmhmm-read the link I provided Phoenix above your post and why he won't be charged with a hate crime. Makes sense.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 19, 2015 23:04:41 GMT -5
If they charge for a hate crime it becomes possible to use RICO statutes for prosecution. That is certainly a possibility in this case, considering the patches seen on his jacket in one of the pictures taken prior to this incident. mmhmm-read the link I provided Phoenix above your post and why he won't be charged with a hate crime. Makes sense. I'm aware SC has no hate crime laws so he won't be so charged here. That, however, doesn't stop the federal government from stepping in with such charges if they choose to do so.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 19, 2015 23:07:03 GMT -5
mmhmm-read the link I provided Phoenix above your post and why he won't be charged with a hate crime. Makes sense. I'm aware SC has no hate crime laws so he won't be so charged here. That, however, doesn't stop the federal government from stepping in with such charges if they choose to do so. I think the federal government will be okay with SC prosecuting the guy, especially if they go for the death penalty. Cannot get any more severe than that.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 19, 2015 23:10:33 GMT -5
I'm aware SC has no hate crime laws so he won't be so charged here. That, however, doesn't stop the federal government from stepping in with such charges if they choose to do so. I think the federal government will be okay with SC prosecuting the guy, especially if they go for the death penalty. Cannot get any more severe than that. The governor has asked for the death penalty. This, however, is a very visible case nationwide. Hard to know, at this point, how much involvement the feds will want. Depends on what kind of pressure is put on them, I'd say. For now, it looks like it will be the state laws that will decide it, but I'll be watching to see what the feds do on this one. I sure won't be surprised if they do decide to weigh in.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 19, 2015 23:12:37 GMT -5
I'm aware SC has no hate crime laws so he won't be so charged here. That, however, doesn't stop the federal government from stepping in with such charges if they choose to do so. I think the federal government will be okay with SC prosecuting the guy, especially if they go for the death penalty. Cannot get any more severe than that. Sure it can. Put him in the prison general population and watch them tear him apart. Slowly.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 19, 2015 23:21:48 GMT -5
This crap gets old. NRA board member blames victim for Charleston shootingHOUSTON — A Houston attorney on the National Rifle Association's board of directors is blaming the deadly Charleston church shooting on one of the victims, saying the slain pastor had opposed concealed carry legislation as a state senator that could have saved him and his fellow worshippers. In an interview Friday with The Associated Press, Charles Cotton confirmed writing that "innocent people died because of (Clementa Pinckney's) position on a political issue." The post appeared Thursday in an online discussion board about concealed handguns. Nine people were killed Wednesday night after a 21-year-old gunman opened fire during a Bible study at The Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, where Pinckney was pastor. Cotton told the AP that he was expressing a personal opinion not reflective of the NRA. He also said he was "stumped" that his comments were still visible because he had deleted them after later deciding they were inappropriate. Cotton said that Pinckney had voted against a concealed carry measure as a South Carolina senator, but a search of legislative archives could not immediately find any such measure. And he noted that the South Carolina law that bans guns in places of worship unless specifically allowed was the exact opposite of Texas law, which allows guns unless theyspecifically are prohibited. Cotton, a former police officer in Friendswood, south of Houston, said he carries a gun into church. NRA board member blames victim for Charleston shooting
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jun 19, 2015 23:41:28 GMT -5
Something to think about.....
In an analysis of FBI and other federal government data, the non-profit Violence Policy Center said Americans are far more likely to hurt themselves or others when handling a lethal weapon. In 2012, it said, only 259 “justifiable homicides” involving a private citizen were reported, compared to 8,342 criminal homicides committed with a gun.
Put another way, for every justifiable homicide involving a gun, 32 criminal homicides carried out with a firearm occurred. And that does not take into account “tens of thousands” of gun-related suicides and unintentional shootings.
The influential National Rifle Association contends that “guns are necessary for self-defence,” said Josh Sugarmann, executive director of the Violence Policy Center in Washington.
“But this gun industry propaganda has no basis in fact,” he said in a statement.
“In fact, in a nation of more than 300 million firearms, it is striking how rarely guns are used in self-defense.”
www.rawstory.com/2015/06/guns-rarely-used-for-self-defense-in-us-there-are-32-criminal-homicides-for-every-1-justifiable-shooting/
For what ever it is worth, A view from the other side.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 19, 2015 23:42:03 GMT -5
On a somewhat related note... my 75+ year old mother just got her CC Permit THIS YEAR! (I gave her and her husband a pre-paid "card" the class for it as an Anniversary Present, late last year. They took the class this Spring) Why Richard...?
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 19, 2015 23:48:08 GMT -5
This crap gets old. NRA board member blames victim for Charleston shootingHOUSTON — A Houston attorney on the National Rifle Association's board of directors is blaming the deadly Charleston church shooting on one of the victims, saying the slain pastor had opposed concealed carry legislation as a state senator that could have saved him and his fellow worshippers. In an interview Friday with The Associated Press, Charles Cotton confirmed writing that "innocent people died because of (Clementa Pinckney's) position on a political issue." The post appeared Thursday in an online discussion board about concealed handguns. Nine people were killed Wednesday night after a 21-year-old gunman opened fire during a Bible study at The Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, where Pinckney was pastor. Cotton told the AP that he was expressing a personal opinion not reflective of the NRA. He also said he was "stumped" that his comments were still visible because he had deleted them after later deciding they were inappropriate. Cotton said that Pinckney had voted against a concealed carry measure as a South Carolina senator, but a search of legislative archives could not immediately find any such measure. And he noted that the South Carolina law that bans guns in places of worship unless specifically allowed was the exact opposite of Texas law, which allows guns unless theyspecifically are prohibited. Cotton, a former police officer in Friendswood, south of Houston, said he carries a gun into church. NRA board member blames victim for Charleston shooting"he had deleted them after later deciding they were inappropriate."...Inappropriate,..?? No sh*t D ick Tracy...to say the least......
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 20, 2015 1:22:15 GMT -5
When news broke that a young white man had gunned down nine people in a historically black church in Charleston, South Carolina, Wednesday night, most people quickly seemed to infer that racial animus was a likely motivation for the attack, especially once authorities began referring to it as a hate crime. Not the cast of Fox & Friends. This morning the show brought on E.W. Jackson, a black pastor and former lieutenant governor candidate in Virginia known for referring to the gay rights movement as “a cancer” and President Obama as a “radical anti-American” and “anti-Christian.” Without mentioning the possibility that the killings were racially motivated, Jackson explained that he was worried about the fact that the attack happened at a church. “We’re urging people wait for the facts, don’t jump to conclusions,” Jackson said. “But I’m telling you, I’m deeply concerned that this gunman chose to go into a church, because there does seem to be a rising hostility against Christians across this country because of our biblical views. I just think it’s something that we have to be aware of and not create an atmosphere in which people take out their violent intentions against Christians.”
www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/18/fox_and_friends_on_charleston_shooting_it_s_extraordinary_that_they_re_calling.html
Surprise! It was the damned atheists!
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 20, 2015 1:24:27 GMT -5
The following link is to a rather long article, but one that offers a good deal more information on the perp and his family, and a sort of timeline prior to this event. I found it an interesting read: WASHINGTON POST ARTICLE
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 20, 2015 1:25:48 GMT -5
So, let's recap, shall we? It was the victim's fault. It was the atheists' fault. I've also heard that it's Obama's fault. It couldn't possibly the fault of a racist whack-job with a legally-bought gun.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 20, 2015 1:49:45 GMT -5
The following link is to a rather long article, but one that offers a good deal more information on the perp and his family, and a sort of timeline prior to this event. I found it an interesting read: WASHINGTON POST ARTICLEThanks for that.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 20, 2015 2:05:22 GMT -5
The following link is to a rather long article, but one that offers a good deal more information on the perp and his family, and a sort of timeline prior to this event. I found it an interesting read: WASHINGTON POST ARTICLEThanks for that. You're welcome. It's the first article I've found that puts so much information together. Gives a broader look than anything else I've seen.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 20, 2015 7:10:38 GMT -5
The families have already forgiven him. The DA, I think it was, is going to interview the families before deciding to go for the death penalty. Although she isn't bound by what the families say, I'm sure it will weigh heavily on her decision.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jun 20, 2015 7:53:50 GMT -5
The following link is to a rather long article, but one that offers a good deal more information on the perp and his family, and a sort of timeline prior to this event. I found it an interesting read: WASHINGTON POST ARTICLEThank you for the post mmhmm.. true a bit long but so well written and seems to leave more questions then answers..If true about his family..that was not the cause of his actions..in fact anything but...I off the cuff and with a quick interpetation of his actions..he basically is a young uneducated..{ his choice..} no future kid...many of them around ...who probably blames the world and others for his situation...and in this case settled on those of color...my sum up...the perp is a loser. Interesting that he told police he almost didn't do the act because they were so nice to him ..{ welcoming him to the gathering..}..Didn't know that about the Confederate battle flag..South Carolina...reason it is always flying...and over the country flag...{ will withhold comment...why bother..[sigh]..} A non disinguished member of Congress reasoning on the reason SC flies the Confederate battle flag.. www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/06/lindsey-graham-defends-confederate-flag
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 20, 2015 9:50:55 GMT -5
The families have already forgiven him. The DA, I think it was, is going to interview the families before deciding to go for the death penalty. Although she isn't bound by what the families say, I'm sure it will weigh heavily on her decision. That foregiveness is raw at this time. That foregiveness may not exist once friends and family have buried their dead, I don't see how the state DA cannot go forward with a death penalty case. It wasn't just one person murdered. Add the numbered of those mudered to a racial motive for the crime and it seems easy to make it a death penalty case. The citizens of Charleston, the citizens of South Carolina, and the rest of us in the U.S. are watching. We have put to death criminals for far, far less criminal actions than what Roof is 'alleged' to have committed and confessed to having committed. Time will tell.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 20, 2015 10:09:53 GMT -5
True but the families may not want to have to relive over and over again how their loved ones were murdered by a punk. They may get little say in the matter but their wishes should be listened to. I'm not a "turn the other cheek" kinda gal but these people are. True Christians.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 20, 2015 10:17:43 GMT -5
True but the families may not want to have to relive over and over again how their loved ones were murdered by a punk. They may get little say in the matter but their wishes should be listened to. I'm not a "turn the other cheek" kinda gal but these people are. True Christians. Keep in mind the families are going to have to hear how their loved ones died several times anyway whether it is a LWOP or death penalty case. I would think the families could be spared hearing testimony if the DA offers a plea deal of LWOP to the guy and Roof and the presiding judge accept the offer. I don't think that is going to happen based upon the severity of the crime. I could easily be wrong.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 20, 2015 10:19:12 GMT -5
Too bad the little bastard didn't kill himself. Typical coward.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 20, 2015 10:31:47 GMT -5
time to consider allowing people to carry firearms if they want too...It seems there is to much of this going on..As far as gun controls it has gone to far in my estimation for that to ne effective today...It's estimated that there are over 300 million firearms in the hands of civilens today...My feelings is that is just to hard a number to over come plus the country, right or wrong is gun happy...and it's not going to change. To expect the police to stop these actions before they happen is asking to much of them...they can't be everywhere when these events happen...To be available to be called and hope they arrive to apprehend and stop actions as they are happening..ok..but till they arrive to take charge..it may have to be left to the civilens in the area of the happening. That doesn't mean everyone should have to be a carrier of a weapon. It has to be a voluntary situation but I am thinking a loosening of the ability to get permits to carry...possible pass some exam , safety course...but not make it so hard to get a permit as some states make it today might be the answer. www.courant.com/nation-world/ct-charleston-shooting-20150617-story.html"9 people, including state senator, fatally shot at church in Charleston, S.C"According to eyewitness accounts- one of the survivors- one person killed 9 people in close quarters and re-loaded his weapon 5 times. I'm very sorry for the loss of life here on Wednesday, but a person would have to be quite blinded by their anti-gun ideology not to acknowledge that if ONE person- let alone many- in that room were armed, the outcome would have been different. #RaceWarFail #NotBaltimore btw...
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jun 20, 2015 10:36:00 GMT -5
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 20, 2015 10:45:40 GMT -5
Put him in general popp and tell the others what he did - no fuss no muss. Are you okay with the murder of people you think are bad? Is that what you are suggesting should happen? Are you seriously asking me if I think a person who murdered 9 people in cold blood deserves to die?
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 20, 2015 11:22:45 GMT -5
Put him in general popp and tell the others what he did - no fuss no muss. Are you okay with the murder of people you think are bad? Is that what you are suggesting should happen? Are you seriously asking me if I think a person who murdered 9 people in cold blood deserves to die? I think the question is are you okay with telling criminals that, this time wink-wink, it is okay for you to kill someone.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jun 20, 2015 11:32:14 GMT -5
Well, it didn't take long. I expected it, and sure enough......! Some idiots are saying this was, like Sandy Hook, a false flag operation orchestrated by Obama, as a way to confiscate guns from American citizens.
::sigh::
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Jun 20, 2015 11:37:53 GMT -5
... I'm not a "turn the other cheek" kinda gal but these people are. True Christians. Kinda like the Duggar women?
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