Knee Deep in Water Chloe
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Post by Knee Deep in Water Chloe on Jun 16, 2015 20:08:11 GMT -5
Oh, I thought Virgil was talking about the elephants on Winnie the Pooh.
On a side note, or back on topic I suppose:
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
Aristotle
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Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 16, 2015 20:11:25 GMT -5
Why can't you post in politics and CE? Technical reasons. I was just saying that I think a healthy discussion was trying to take place here in this thread before you posted in it. Your posts are sort of a distraction from the issues that need discussing. No offense. Fair enough. I'll leave you guys to it.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2015 20:27:20 GMT -5
Why are you unable to post on certain boards, Virgil? And why should you have to explain why you post anywhere? Did I miss something?
ETA: Never mind. MYOB, GEL.
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Peace Of Mind
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[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 16, 2015 20:33:19 GMT -5
Why can't you post in politics and CE? Technical reasons. I was just saying that I think a healthy discussion was trying to take place here in this thread before you posted in it. Your posts are sort of a distraction from the issues that need discussing. No offense. Fair enough. I'll leave you guys to it. You don't need to go! That was her opinion and according to her she ain't all that! If it matters I still you!
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honeysalt
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Post by honeysalt on Jun 16, 2015 21:20:01 GMT -5
IMHO, the jenner thread was great. I wish more threads could be like that. I am not sure what the issue is. I agree. It was really interesting and fun for me. Honestly, I particularly enjoyed interacting with the posters who were unlike me. IRL, I mostly gravitate towards people who think and have lifestyles like mine. It is really interesting to interact and have conversations with people who don't have the same views as I do. Clearly there is a lot of back story that I am not privy to and, just as clearly, this issue was quite personal for a lot of people, but I enjoyed the generous support I received as well as the opposing views.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2015 21:26:47 GMT -5
I learned from you, honeysalt. I learn from a lot of posters here. You post with grace and eloquence. You will have quite an audience when you post in that manner. Nothing but good can result from education by a poster who walks the walk rather than someone posting a bunch of links that will have just as many links disputing them.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 17, 2015 7:49:47 GMT -5
I'm not upset at you... I actually went out of my way to make my post NOT sound upset. I was just saying that I think a healthy discussion was trying to take place here in this thread before you posted in it. Your posts are sort of a distraction from the issues that need discussing. No offense. No, I don't agree with most of what you say... But that's not why I made my request. I hoped you would understand that. I agree. Without people who disagree everything goes much more peachy for those posting. It would be more efficient too as everyone could use the 'yea that' smiley thing. It would save tons of reading for me. lol.....yes......just the opening post and then a bunch of emoticons. My idea of message board hell!
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jun 17, 2015 7:57:22 GMT -5
Virgil Showlion, how can I put this nicely.... I think we can better identify and work to resolve our communication issues on here if you would kindly observe from the sidelines. I know I can't make you but just consider it a friendly request from one adult to another. I promised admin back in April that I'd stay out of Politics and CE for all but a handful of topics (specifically, those pertaining to finance and elections). I've honoured that promise and will continue to honour it. Politics and CE now qualify as graveyards anyway, except for the occasional flourish when Paul shows up. I don't apologize for participating in the Jenner thread, which was in YMOT. I'm not sure why you're upset about it. Our paths barely crossed in that thread. I don't recall addressing your comments in any way besides 'liking' a few of them. If you don't like my opinions on social issues, join the club. What I desperately wish is that the few remaining conservative posters that 'like' my posts, publicly defend me, and send me supportive PMs and e-mails would own their beliefs and boldly express them so that the few debates I do participate in aren't Virgil vs. the World. I realize there are harsh consequences for unequivocally expressing socially conservative views, and that's not going to change, but even having one or two brothers (or sisters) -at-arms willing to share the load makes a world of difference. I am shocked, I tell you shocked, that someone would tell you to cool it on the boards. It sure as hell does not apply to other mods on the board spewing their leftwing socialist views. Surprised?? No. Shocked that one of their own would be held to a lesser standard than the others? YES. OH, wait, YOU are held to a higher standard.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 17, 2015 8:16:04 GMT -5
This isn't about Virgil anyway. It's about a scary precedent being set. If you can't make the minority bow to your opinion, shut them down. If that doesn't bother anyone else and they'd rather talk about Virgil, then I don't know what to say.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Jun 17, 2015 8:21:06 GMT -5
Yes, I agree with GEL. It is concerning not only on this message board but in real life that differing opinions must be attacked and "shamed."
If you don't come out with unequiviical support of gay marriage, transgenderism, or any number of other issues, you're filled with hate, a bigot, shamed, attacked ect.
The great irony being that those doing the shaming pat themselves on the back for being "open minded" and "accepting."
The level of political correctness and desire not to offend at any cost constrains the free exchange of ideas, and damages the fabric of a free society.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 17, 2015 8:22:36 GMT -5
Yes, I agree with GEL. It is concerning not only on this message board but in real life that differing opinions must be attacked and "shamed." If you don't come out with unequiviical support of gay marriage, transgenderism, or any number of other issues, you're filled with hate, a bigot, shamed, attacked ect. The great irony being that those doing the shaming pat themselves on the back for being "open minded" and "accepting." The level of political correctness and desire not to offend at any cost constrains the free exchange of ideas, and damages the fabric of a free society. Just want to say that just the fact that we have people writing this is awesome. We have come a long way baby!
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 17, 2015 8:23:57 GMT -5
I stated the reason I made my request to Virgil (for this thread only!)... I also clarified to him privately my larger reason for doing it. At the risk of sounding patronizing to other posters that I like and respect, some of them were allowing Virgil's posts to be a red herring of sorts - taking swipes at him instead of discussing the bigger issues that GEL, Sroo, and others were bringing up. Even though I could see he was being facetious, his posts on the Jenner thread obviously riled people up... and I'm not saying that what he did was okay. What I'm saying is that his behavior in that thread shouldn't be the focal point in this thread. It should be made into its own subject in the "Mod Beef" forum.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 17, 2015 8:25:00 GMT -5
I don't apologize for participating in the Jenner thread, which was in YMOT. I'm not sure why you're upset about it. Our paths barely crossed in that thread. I don't recall addressing your comments in any way besides 'liking' a few of them. If you don't like my opinions on social issues, join the club. What I desperately wish is that the few remaining conservative posters that 'like' my posts, publicly defend me, and send me supportive PMs and e-mails would own their beliefs and boldly express them so that the few debates I do participate in aren't Virgil vs. the World. I realize there are harsh consequences for unequivocally expressing socially conservative views, and that's not going to change, but even having one or two brothers (or sisters) -at-arms willing to share the load makes a world of difference. The bible promised that Christians will be persecuted - so take your lone space as a sign from god that he trusts you to spread the word and stand up for your beliefs even when they are unpopular. It isn't like you are being literally fed to the lions, or jailed for your opinions. Your reward will be in heaven.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 17, 2015 8:26:35 GMT -5
Yes, I agree with GEL. It is concerning not only on this message board but in real life that differing opinions must be attacked and "shamed." If you don't come out with unequiviical support of gay marriage, transgenderism, or any number of other issues, you're filled with hate, a bigot, shamed, attacked ect. The great irony being that those doing the shaming pat themselves on the back for being "open minded" and "accepting." The level of political correctness and desire not to offend at any cost constrains the free exchange of ideas, and damages the fabric of a free society. This is true of all liberals on every subject. Everyone is right, except those that disagree with them.
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mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 17, 2015 8:27:27 GMT -5
I stated the reason I made my request to Virgil (for this thread only!)... I also clarified to him privately my larger reason for doing it. At the risk of sounding patronizing to other posters that I like and respect, some of them were allowing Virgil's posts to be a red herring of sorts - taking swipes at him instead of discussing the bigger issues that GEL, Sroo, and others were bringing up. Even though I could see he was being facetious, his posts on the Jenner thread obviously riled people up... and I'm not saying that what he did was okay. What I'm saying is that his behavior in that thread shouldn't be the focal point in this thread. It should be made into its own subject in the "Mod Beef" forum. I couldn't like that post more if we had a button to apply 100 likes!
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mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 17, 2015 8:28:29 GMT -5
Yes, I agree with GEL. It is concerning not only on this message board but in real life that differing opinions must be attacked and "shamed." If you don't come out with unequiviical support of gay marriage, transgenderism, or any number of other issues, you're filled with hate, a bigot, shamed, attacked ect. The great irony being that those doing the shaming pat themselves on the back for being "open minded" and "accepting." The level of political correctness and desire not to offend at any cost constrains the free exchange of ideas, and damages the fabric of a free society. This is true of all liberals on every subject. Everyone is right, except those that disagree with them. Nothing is true of all liberals (or, conservatives, for that matter) on every subject.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jun 17, 2015 8:28:59 GMT -5
FYI- Virgil made that "promise" of his own accord. He was certainly not asked to stay off of the P&M Board.
deminmaine- Moderator.
If possible, without telling secrets from behind the magic curtain, why would Virgil have to "promise" anything? Anything other than cooling it about snow leopards, should not have been discussed, in the interest of a fair and honest board. Did all mods have to "promise" anything? Other than to be fair and balanced?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 17, 2015 8:29:13 GMT -5
Yes, I agree with GEL. It is concerning not only on this message board but in real life that differing opinions must be attacked and "shamed." If you don't come out with unequiviical support of gay marriage, transgenderism, or any number of other issues, you're filled with hate, a bigot, shamed, attacked ect. The great irony being that those doing the shaming pat themselves on the back for being "open minded" and "accepting." The level of political correctness and desire not to offend at any cost constrains the free exchange of ideas, and damages the fabric of a free society. This is true of all liberals on every subject. Everyone is right, except those that disagree with them. conservatives are only upset because liberals are winning at every subject.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jun 17, 2015 8:30:51 GMT -5
I stated the reason I made my request to Virgil (for this thread only!)... I also clarified to him privately my larger reason for doing it. At the risk of sounding patronizing to other posters that I like and respect, some of them were allowing Virgil's posts to be a red herring of sorts - taking swipes at him instead of discussing the bigger issues that GEL, Sroo, and others were bringing up. Even though I could see he was being facetious, his posts on the Jenner thread obviously riled people up... and I'm not saying that what he did was okay. What I'm saying is that his behavior in that thread shouldn't be the focal point in this thread. It should be made into its own subject in the "Mod Beef" forum. I couldn't like that post more if we had a button to apply 100 likes! The opposing button disappeared years ago due to liberal outrage on the board
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Green Eyed Lady
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Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 17, 2015 8:31:17 GMT -5
Yes, I agree with GEL. It is concerning not only on this message board but in real life that differing opinions must be attacked and "shamed." If you don't come out with unequiviical support of gay marriage, transgenderism, or any number of other issues, you're filled with hate, a bigot, shamed, attacked ect. The great irony being that those doing the shaming pat themselves on the back for being "open minded" and "accepting." The level of political correctness and desire not to offend at any cost constrains the free exchange of ideas, and damages the fabric of a free society. True, however, it's my feeling that some people SHOULD be ashamed of their stances on things - just like I'm sure people think I should be. That doesn't negate their right to have them.
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mmhmm
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It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 17, 2015 8:33:38 GMT -5
FYI- Virgil made that "promise" of his own accord. He was certainly not asked to stay off of the P&M Board.
deminmaine- Moderator.
If possible, without telling secrets from behind the magic curtain, why would Virgil have to "promise" anything? Anything other than cooling it about snow leopards, should not have been discussed, in the interest of a fair and honest board. Did all mods have to "promise" anything? Other than to be fair and balanced? Virgil didn't "have to promise" anything. It was something he chose to do. It's not something that needs to be discussed here, anyway. It was Virgil's decision and it is Virgil's business.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 17, 2015 8:35:12 GMT -5
This is true of all liberals on every subject. Everyone is right, except those that disagree with them. Nothing is true of all liberals (or, conservatives, for that matter) on every subject. You are right. But, it does seem to be a common thread for many committed liberals on many subjects.
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mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 17, 2015 8:36:19 GMT -5
Sorry, @sroo4. I didn't read your last post before I posted. I agree with you completely. GEL started this thread with a topic and we'll accomplish more by sticking to that topic.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 17, 2015 8:37:17 GMT -5
Sorry, @sroo4. I didn't read your last post before I posted. I agree with you completely. GEL started this thread with a topic and we'll accomplish more by sticking to that topic. Yes! I had a special purpose! I seem to have forgotten what it was.
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mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
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Post by mmhmm on Jun 17, 2015 8:37:31 GMT -5
Nothing is true of all liberals (or, conservatives, for that matter) on every subject. You are right. But, it does seem to be a common thread for many committed liberals on many subjects. I've seen that sort of thing from both sides, frankly. Its manifestation uses different terminology but the result seems meant to be the same.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 17, 2015 8:37:42 GMT -5
This is true of all liberals on every subject. Everyone is right, except those that disagree with them. conservatives are only upset because liberals are winning at every subject. for now... the pendulum will swing back. It always does, even for a little while.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 17, 2015 8:38:10 GMT -5
conservatives are only upset because liberals are winning at every subject. for now... the pendulum will swing back. It always does, even for a little while. And then, liberals will be even more angry.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Jun 17, 2015 8:39:45 GMT -5
FYI- Virgil made that "promise" of his own accord. He was certainly not asked to stay off of the P&M Board.
deminmaine- Moderator.
If possible, without telling secrets from behind the magic curtain, why would Virgil have to "promise" anything? Anything other than cooling it about snow leopards, should not have been discussed, in the interest of a fair and honest board. Did all mods have to "promise" anything? Other than to be fair and balanced? When I was appointed a mod here, I had to promise nothing. I do however have my own standards for my behavior. I try very hard to be "fair & balanced" (that's a joke, ok) but it is true. I attempt to keep my personal beliefs just that, personal. In an attempt to moderate YM and YMOT, I try to keep in mind the CoC that should control the behavior of all of us, whether we have mod status or otherwise. Do I make errors at times, yes I do....don't I VB? But I admitted I was wrong to take the steps I did and apologized to the person I had offended.
Do the mods disagree among themselves? Yes, we do, but eventually will reach a consensus. Each issue is dealt with on an individual basis and serious steps i.e. locking a thread is discussed carefully.
One of my personal goals is to put principles before personality. If I can achieve that on a daily basis I feel as though I have been successful with my decisions.
I hope this answers some of your questions.
BG - Admin YM & YMOT.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 17, 2015 8:43:01 GMT -5
I couldn't like that post more if we had a button to apply 100 likes! The opposing button disappeared years ago due to liberal outrage on the board I think Moon decided it would not exist when we moved to PB V5 or something. I see the , but I'm fairly sure this was an executive decision. I know I wanted to keep both, but do agree having both, can set a negative tone at times.
FWIW. Can you imagine what would happen on corporate & personal FB pages if one could dislike the entity or person? (Not on FB, will be soon.)
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 17, 2015 8:44:05 GMT -5
for now... the pendulum will swing back. It always does, even for a little while. And then, liberals will be even more angry. I feel like in 50-100 years modern society will be Idiocracy... plus The Purge every fiscal quarter.
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