Deleted
Joined: Oct 12, 2024 9:29:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 15:29:25 GMT -5
Murder also has a colloquial definition. I do not believe GEL is a lawyer and she is certainly not speaking in court. True. She could also mean that abortion is a group of crows. She could but not many people would understand her. I understand what she means if she were to state that abortion is murder. Millions of other people would also understand her. The colloquial definition of abortions is not a group of cows. What millions of people think of when they hear "murder" is the colloquial definition. Words have meanings, both formal and ordinary, everyday meanings. I am not going to argue further with you. You are one of my favorite posters and I have been arguing with those too much lately.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,380
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 16, 2015 15:31:30 GMT -5
True. She could also mean that abortion is a group of crows. She could but not many people would understand her. I understand what she means if she were to state that abortion is murder. Millions of other people would also understand her. The colloquial definition of abortions is not a group of cows. What millions of people think of when they hear "murder" is the colloquial definition. Words have meanings, both formal and ordinary, everyday meanings. I am not going to argue further with you. You are one of my favorite posters and I have been arguing with those too much lately. You, my friend, have a fine afternoon and enjoy a beer, if that is your pleasure.
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2015 15:36:43 GMT -5
My purpose for starting this thread was that something was on my mind. I'm guessing it's the same "purpose" a lot of people have. Did I need a special purpose?
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,380
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 16, 2015 15:44:41 GMT -5
The thing that Virgil Showlion has right about the forum is that there are a ton of straw men. No one light a match or we will all burst into flames. But I don't think there is anything wrong with straw men. They are endlessly more fun to argue with than a strawless man.
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2015 15:46:33 GMT -5
My purpose for starting this thread was that something was on my mind. I'm guessing it's the same "purpose" a lot of people have. Did I need a special purpose? It worked for Steve Martin in The Jerk I KNEW you'd get that!!!!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 12, 2024 9:29:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 15:50:00 GMT -5
So, to you
I understand that some of you want to shame and humiliate poor people, and only allow them the most bland and unattractive food possible, because you believe they are lazy and enjoy their lives of indolence on the tax payer dime, sitting around watching TV and playing video games
Equals
You pieceofshit woman-hating general in the war on women...dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"
|
|
grumpyhermit
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jul 12, 2012 12:04:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,445
|
Post by grumpyhermit on Jun 16, 2015 15:54:16 GMT -5
Just as a general note - when you start a thread wondering why we can't have adult, rational discourse - calling posters that express contrary viewpoints angry and confrontational - may not be the best way to go about achieving that goal. Some people could take that statement the wrong way. Just saying...[also using phrases like that - doesn't help]
I didn't read any anger in oped's post, and I don't write this one with any anger either - though I'm sure some could be perceived. I did read some degree of condescension in you post to oped. This being a written format, I have no idea if you actually meant there to be. Perception and tone can be very fickle beasts. Only the writer can know their true intent, but once the word is out there - everyone is going to form their own opinion. I think to truly get to the point where we can have debate, without it devolving into name calling - it is important to avoid potentially loaded statements. Identifying those statements is not always easy given our own personal biases and hot buttons.
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2015 15:58:54 GMT -5
It's not my intent to be condescending because that term means I feel superiority toward someone. That would be impossible because the only people I may be superior to are...nobody!
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Jun 16, 2015 15:59:34 GMT -5
It's very simple. Todays grownups cannot handle someone who disagrees with them.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Jun 16, 2015 16:00:14 GMT -5
It's not my intent to be condescending because that term means I feel superiority toward someone. That would be impossible because the only people I may be superior to are...nobody! Some opinions ARE superior.
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2015 16:01:11 GMT -5
lol..that may be true, Shoooby. But not mine! I just have run-of-the-mill opinions.
|
|
grumpyhermit
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jul 12, 2012 12:04:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,445
|
Post by grumpyhermit on Jun 16, 2015 16:01:21 GMT -5
That just highlights my point - and I didn't mean it as an accusation - only my interpretation of your post. When you are lacking body language, and other social cues, actually getting someones meaning and intent, from words alone, can be difficult. Which is what makes civil, online debate all the more difficult.
|
|
Green Eyed Lady
Senior Associate
Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
Joined: Jan 23, 2012 11:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 19,629
|
Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jun 16, 2015 16:02:55 GMT -5
That just highlights my point - and I didn't mean it as an accusation - only my interpretation of your post. When you are lacking body language, and other social cues, actually getting someones meaning and intent, from words alone, can be difficult. Which is what makes civil, online debate all the more difficult. I totally agree.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Jun 16, 2015 16:03:21 GMT -5
Except only one side gets to determine " civil". Just start squawking " hate" when losing the argument on merit.
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,380
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Jun 16, 2015 16:04:58 GMT -5
Except only one side gets to determine " civil". Yup. The winning side.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 12, 2024 9:29:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 16:06:32 GMT -5
That just highlights my point - and I didn't mean it as an accusation - only my interpretation of your post. When you are lacking body language, and other social cues, actually getting someones meaning and intent, from words alone, can be difficult. Which is what makes civil, online debate all the more difficult. did you read the Jenner thread or the Duggar thread? It was not lack of body language that made those threads uncivil. It was people feeling way to superior to someone they disagreed with and acting that way.
|
|
Shooby
Senior Associate
Joined: Jan 17, 2013 0:32:36 GMT -5
Posts: 14,782
Mini-Profile Name Color: 1cf04f
|
Post by Shooby on Jun 16, 2015 16:07:01 GMT -5
If u were actually winning you would not have to resort to calling people haters , etc now would you?
|
|
kittensaver
Junior Associate
We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
Joined: Nov 22, 2011 16:16:36 GMT -5
Posts: 7,983
|
Post by kittensaver on Jun 16, 2015 16:34:33 GMT -5
Regarding certain suspect revisions, I think it would be wrong to assume the public is aware of even a tenth of what went on behind the scenes to motivate them. It could be the public is critically underinformed on the matter, and perhaps they might not hasten to judgment. Regarding polite discourse: I think it would be wrong to assume that posters only rarely conflate "expressing opinions politely and respectfully" with "expressing opinions conditionally, ambivalently, noncommittally, euphemistically, and phrased in the passive voice". Indeed we might consider that for some posters, "polite and respectful discourse" (as it applies to one's ideological opponents) carries the implicit requirement for soft equivocal language, a willingness to expressly acknowledge the merit (even just a bit) of opposing arguments, and "wiggle words" such as "I believe that...", "It seems to me that...", "It might possibly be right to assume that..." that clearly emphasize the writer's passivity and unwillingness to commit. Failure to present one's arguments in a way that satisfies all of these requirements might lead such posters to erroneously perceive hostility, prompting them to "retaliate" in hostile fashion. Just some theoretical food for thought. This discourse on civility brought to you by the person who responded to another poster with "woozle, woozle."
|
|
andi9899
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 6, 2011 10:22:29 GMT -5
Posts: 31,332
Member is Online
|
Post by andi9899 on Jun 16, 2015 16:54:12 GMT -5
This discourse on civility brought to you by the person who responded to another poster with "woozle, woozle." "woozle, woozle" is uncivilized? I hate having to check urban dictionary. Is this one of those new fangled phrases I don't know about? Did you just call me a thot? You're so basic!
|
|
happyhoix
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Oct 7, 2011 7:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 21,589
Member is Online
|
Post by happyhoix on Jun 16, 2015 16:58:32 GMT -5
So, to you I understand that some of you want to shame and humiliate poor people, and only allow them the most bland and unattractive food possible, because you believe they are lazy and enjoy their lives of indolence on the tax payer dime, sitting around watching TV and playing video games Equals You pieceofshit woman-hating general in the war on women...dieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!" Yes, it's an example of a blatant misrepresentation of what I said, in an effort to paint me as something I'm not and imply that that I said something that I didn't. Interesting, if you read that alone out of context, what do you think the comment I made was? I think that was my comment. It was on a thread in the Politics board, if I'm not mistaken, and it was in argument against the posters on that board (and there were many) that were advocating only allowing food stamp users to be able to buy the most basic foods, like beans and oatmeal, because if they couldn't buy anything good to eat, that would be the motivation they needed to get off their lazy asses and off the government dime. Blatant misrepresentation is pretty much par for the course on the Politics board. Posters have told me I want to kill people because I don't want another pipeline to ship oil. I've been told I should leave the country because I'm so un-American. I'm anti-industry, anti-science and anti-progress and the American way because I think we are experiencing climate change caused by human activities. I'm an idiot because I don't believe what Rush Limaugh or Ayn Rand says. Frankly, if you want to participate on that board, you have to have a thick skin and a very strong sense of humor, because someone will be there to call you out, regardless of whether you hang out on the right or the left end of the political spectrum. Blatant misrepresentation of what you've posted is pretty much the nicest thing that can happen to you on the Politics thread. I've always thought discussions on the YM board were pretty civilized, but maybe I hang out on the Politics board too much- ya'll seem much nicer in comparison.
|
|
Value Buy
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Posts: 18,680
Today's Mood: Getting better by the day!
Location: In the middle of enjoying retirement!
Favorite Drink: Zombie Dust from Three Floyd's brewery
Mini-Profile Name Color: e61975
Mini-Profile Text Color: 196ce6
|
Post by Value Buy on Jun 16, 2015 17:06:52 GMT -5
Yes, it's an example of a blatant misrepresentation of what I said, in an effort to paint me as something I'm not and imply that that I said something that I didn't. Interesting, if you read that alone out of context, what do you think the comment I made was? I think that was my comment. It was on a thread in the Politics board, if I'm not mistaken, and it was in argument against the posters on that board (and there were many) that were advocating only allowing food stamp users to be able to buy the most basic foods, like beans and oatmeal, because if they couldn't buy anything good to eat, that would be the motivation they needed to get off their lazy asses and off the government dime. I've always thought discussions on the YM board were pretty civilized, but maybe I hang out on the Politics board too much- ya'll seem much nicer in comparison. Hmmn, I thought it was to stretch the food dollars to buy good quality food. Truth be told it was when members came over to P&M board from YM board and said "you cannot be uncivilized to fellow posters! wah wha wah." Everyone was of the same fabric and thoughts on YM until then. After the members decided they had done enough destruction of that board, they migrated back to their old home board and started attacking each other just like at P&M, but felt they were above the fray. They weren't .
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 16, 2015 17:56:16 GMT -5
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,049
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 16, 2015 18:30:41 GMT -5
Virgil Showlion, how can I put this nicely.... I think we can better identify and work to resolve our communication issues on here if you would kindly observe from the sidelines. I know I can't make you but just consider it a friendly request from one adult to another.
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Jun 16, 2015 18:34:52 GMT -5
I use those words when 1. I don't actually know the person in RL we are speaking of/about; 2. It's how I understand/perceive the situation/conversation I'm responding to; and 3. I am smart enough to know I'm not that smart about every single topic I post about where I can use definitive words when trying to express my thoughts. Or that's what I believe I do as it seems to me. But it might possibly be right to assume that I clearly emphasize the passivity and unwillingness to commit.
|
|
Value Buy
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 17:57:07 GMT -5
Posts: 18,680
Today's Mood: Getting better by the day!
Location: In the middle of enjoying retirement!
Favorite Drink: Zombie Dust from Three Floyd's brewery
Mini-Profile Name Color: e61975
Mini-Profile Text Color: 196ce6
|
Post by Value Buy on Jun 16, 2015 18:43:22 GMT -5
Okay, I admit it. I had to hit the link to get it. To the right were ten words now trending Pansexuality was one of them Small world.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 16, 2015 19:23:26 GMT -5
Virgil Showlion, how can I put this nicely.... I think we can better identify and work to resolve our communication issues on here if you would kindly observe from the sidelines. I know I can't make you but just consider it a friendly request from one adult to another. I promised admin back in April that I'd stay out of Politics and CE for all but a handful of topics (specifically, those pertaining to finance and elections). I've honoured that promise and will continue to honour it. Politics and CE now qualify as graveyards anyway, except for the occasional flourish when Paul shows up. I don't apologize for participating in the Jenner thread, which was in YMOT. I'm not sure why you're upset about it. Our paths barely crossed in that thread. I don't recall addressing your comments in any way besides 'liking' a few of them. If you don't like my opinions on social issues, join the club. What I desperately wish is that the few remaining conservative posters that 'like' my posts, publicly defend me, and send me supportive PMs and e-mails would own their beliefs and boldly express them so that the few debates I do participate in aren't Virgil vs. the World. I realize there are harsh consequences for unequivocally expressing socially conservative views, and that's not going to change, but even having one or two brothers (or sisters) -at-arms willing to share the load makes a world of difference.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 12, 2024 9:29:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 19:34:34 GMT -5
Virgil Showlion, how can I put this nicely.... I think we can better identify and work to resolve our communication issues on here if you would kindly observe from the sidelines. I know I can't make you but just consider it a friendly request from one adult to another. I promised admin back in April that I'd stay out of Politics and CE for all but a handful of topics (specifically, those pertaining to finance and elections). I've honoured that promise and will continue to honour it. Politics and CE now qualify as graveyards anyway, except for the occasional flourish when Paul shows up. I don't apologize for participating in the Jenner thread, which was in YMOT. I'm not sure why you're upset about it. Our paths barely crossed in that thread. I don't recall addressing your comments in any way besides 'liking' a few of them. If you don't like my opinions on social issues, join the club. What I desperately wish is that the few remaining conservative posters that 'like' my posts, publicly defend me, and send me supportive PMs and e-mails would own their beliefs and boldly express them so that the few debates I do participate in aren't Virgil vs. the World. I realize there are harsh consequences for unequivocally expressing socially conservative views, and that's not going to change, but even having one or two brothers (or sisters) -at-arms willing to share the load makes a world of difference. I like you because you are smart and I think you rely on logic for many of your arguments. I am socially liberal. Why can't you post in politics and CE? Debate the post not the poster was a great way to moderate posts, too bad that left when the old ym ended.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Jun 16, 2015 19:35:13 GMT -5
I use those words when 1. I don't actually know the person in RL we are speaking of/about; 2. It's how I understand/perceive the situation/conversation I'm responding to; and 3. I am smart enough to know I'm not that smart about every single topic I post about where I can use definitive words when trying to express my thoughts. Or that's what I believe I do as it seems to me. But it might possibly be right to assume that I clearly emphasize the passivity and unwillingness to commit. I use words like that because they're true. What I believe, or what seems to me to be true doesn't necessarily have to be the be-all, end-all of truth for everyone. People are entitled to hold different opinions. I don't consider myself so far superior to others that I get to call "dibs" on The Truth. It has absolutely nothing to do with passivity or unwillingness to commit. While I may be committed, another may be just as committed, but differently.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 11,049
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 16, 2015 19:39:42 GMT -5
Virgil Showlion, how can I put this nicely.... I think we can better identify and work to resolve our communication issues on here if you would kindly observe from the sidelines. I know I can't make you but just consider it a friendly request from one adult to another. I promised admin back in April that I'd stay out of Politics and CE for all but a handful of topics (specifically, those pertaining to finance and elections). I've honoured that promise and will continue to honour it. Politics and CE now qualify as graveyards anyway, except for the occasional flourish when Paul shows up. I don't apologize for participating in the Jenner thread, which was in YMOT. I'm not sure why you're upset about it. Our paths barely crossed in that thread. I don't recall addressing your comments in any way besides 'liking' a few of them. If you don't like my opinions on social issues, join the club. What I desperately wish is that the few remaining conservative posters that 'like' my posts, publicly defend me, and send me supportive PMs and e-mails would own their beliefs and boldly express them so that the few debates I do participate in aren't Virgil vs. the World. I realize there are harsh consequences for unequivocally expressing socially conservative views, and that's not going to change, but even having one or two brothers (or sisters) -at-arms willing to share the load makes a world of difference. I'm not upset at you... I actually went out of my way to make my post NOT sound upset. I was just saying that I think a healthy discussion was trying to take place here in this thread before you posted in it. Your posts are sort of a distraction from the issues that need discussing. No offense. No, I don't agree with most of what you say... But that's not why I made my request. I hoped you would understand that.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Oct 12, 2024 9:29:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2015 19:48:04 GMT -5
I'm not upset at you... I actually went out of my way to make my post NOT sound upset. I was just saying that I think a healthy discussion was trying to take place here in this thread before you posted in it. Your posts are sort of a distraction from the issues that need discussing. No offense. No, I don't agree with most of what you say... But that's not why I made my request. I hoped you would understand that. I agree. Without people who disagree everything goes much more peachy for those posting. It would be more efficient too as everyone could use the 'yea that' smiley thing. It would save tons of reading for me.
|
|