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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 9, 2011 11:01:27 GMT -5
You did too leave the off! Nyah!
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 9, 2011 11:04:27 GMT -5
Pfft. The cops know me too. You still need to show ID. In Oct 2009, one week following my son's death, I was back to work and in a fog and daze... I boarded a subway train at the World Trade Center, and walked from one car to the next using the doors at the end of the train. Happens to be a violation subject to a ticket. Sure enough a cop was standing there. Stopped me, first thing he asked was for my ID. Got a $75 ticket. They can ask, but there is no requirement to have an ID. The only requirement is if you are driving. I live in Chicago, there are people here that never drive or get drivers licenses. I know a few people in New York that are the same. You are not required to have a photo ID to get a job (you can provide your SS card and voter registration card, or other forms), you can open a bank account without an ID and do all your transactions online or through an ATM. I'm not against having to provide proper identification, I just don't think that the government should be able to require you to pay prior to voting. I also am against putting weird or difficult restrictions on who and where and when you can vote.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Mar 9, 2011 11:13:49 GMT -5
I am from Wisconsin so this is up for consideration in my State.
I generally vote independent. I don't get it. Democrat or Republican everyone should expect that all people who vote have the right to vote. I can't imagine anyone not having or needing a state issued ID. My 16 year old son has a DL and a Passport and my 14 year old has a passport.
I do not support the use of a school ID as ID for voting. I just don't feel there is enough control in the issue of the ID.
In WI I would bet that most college students have state issued ID. I live in the Milwaukee area and yes, we need ID to cash checks. Even if the teller knows you the bank requires they ask for ID in many instances.
So if you want to vote you do what is necessary to vote. I am neutral on same day voting. We now have same day voting and no ID required. If we have same day voting and and ID required it will be better than what we have now.
What will happen if the address on your ID is wrong? Have they addressed that? I have been in my house for 5.5 years and my DL still has my old address on it. My DL expires next year so I will get a new one then. If I need to have current addy an the DL to vote you better believe I will go get a new one.
When I was 18 I had both a DL and a State ID. My MIL has a Non Driver DL for ID purposes. I don't know if it was mainly for the bank or for travel purposes but I know she has one.
If we pass the law and people feel that one group is trying to disenfranchise them, we will probably have a large group go register to vote/vote in the next election. It might have a positive effect on voter turnout.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 9, 2011 11:13:52 GMT -5
I'm not against having to provide proper identification, I just don't think that the government should be able to require you to pay prior to voting.
To pay what?
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 9, 2011 11:14:33 GMT -5
I'm not against having to provide proper identification, I just don't think that the government should be able to require you to pay prior to voting. To pay what? To pay to get an ID, so that you can vote.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 9, 2011 11:15:11 GMT -5
I'm not against having to provide proper identification, I just don't think that the government should be able to require you to pay prior to voting. To pay what? state IDs are not free.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 9, 2011 11:15:44 GMT -5
What will happen if the address on your ID is wrong? Have they addressed that? I have been in my house for 5.5 years and my DL still has my old address on it. My DL expires next year so I will get a new one then. If I need to have current addy an the DL to vote you better believe I will go get a new one.
you can change your address online now. You also need to register as a voter in your district and be on the rolls with an address in the voting district.
As far as voter disenfranchment, the left fought tooth and nail to prevent overseas military personell from voting in the recent elections.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 9, 2011 11:17:07 GMT -5
I'm not against having to provide proper identification, I just don't think that the government should be able to require you to pay prior to voting. To pay what? state IDs are not free. Life isn't free, though.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 9, 2011 11:18:18 GMT -5
What will happen if the address on your ID is wrong? Have they addressed that? I have been in my house for 5.5 years and my DL still has my old address on it. My DL expires next year so I will get a new one then. If I need to have current addy an the DL to vote you better believe I will go get a new one. you can change your address online now. You also need to register as a voter in your district and be on the rolls with an address in the voting district. As far as voter disenfranchment, the left fought tooth and nail to prevent overseas military personell from voting in the recent elections. Really? I didn't know about that. What did they do? Im pretty sure NY, which is primarily a Dem state, extended the deadline for absentee ballots for active duty military.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 9, 2011 11:18:21 GMT -5
state IDs are not free.
And? The problem is what? Being a responsible citizen and participating in the electoral process takes some effort. It is one's duty.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 9, 2011 11:19:52 GMT -5
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 9, 2011 11:22:19 GMT -5
But voting is according to the supreme court.
Getting a state issued ID is not a poll tax.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 9, 2011 11:23:27 GMT -5
I don't see requiring ID to be a poll tax. Yes, you have to pay for an ID, but you have to pay for the transportation to get yourself to the polls, and you have to pay for the clothes you wear so you're not voting naked, which I'm pretty sure would be Public Lewdness. If you're poor, you can find organizations to give you food and clothes, you can also get cash assistance which you can use to get an ID, which is a basic requirement for life.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Mar 9, 2011 11:25:24 GMT -5
Some college kids want to vote in the community where they attend college. One of the arguments is that local legislation can and does impact them and since they live there, the majority of the year, they should have a say. Also, some students reside in their college towns all year. Finding summer school and jobs that carry through the year. If they are paying taxes in that state and locality, they feel they should be able to vote there. That's easy enough to solve by going to the DMV and changing your ID to your new address, is it not?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 9, 2011 11:27:18 GMT -5
Some college kids want to vote in the community where they attend college. One of the arguments is that local legislation can and does impact them and since they live there, the majority of the year, they should have a say. Also, some students reside in their college towns all year. Finding summer school and jobs that carry through the year. If they are paying taxes in that state and locality, they feel they should be able to vote there. That's easy enough to solve by going to the DMV and changing your ID to your new address, is it not? Yes, but then you have to pay for a new license.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 9, 2011 11:30:12 GMT -5
That's easy enough to solve by going to the DMV and changing your ID to your new address, is it not? Yes, but then you have to pay for a new license. didn't you just say: If you're poor, you can find organizations to give you food and clothes, you can also get cash assistance which you can use to get an ID, which is a basic requirement for life. how is this different?
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Mar 9, 2011 11:31:21 GMT -5
College kids would typically vote in their home towns via absentee voting. but they are not required to do so. they can absolutely declare residency in the place where they live the majority of the year. celebrities declare residency wherever they wish, why can't the average Joe College Student do the same? chiver: It is not about not allowing college students to vote; it's about not allowing college students to vote in a place of temporary residence where their votes could swing LOCAL elections, the results of which could have a long-term impact on the community where the college or university is located. Eventually the student graduates and leaves that area behind and they won't have to "live" with their vote. This is not about taking away anyone's right to vote. It is just about making sure that the block of votes that comes from temporary residents does not result in a different outcome than what might otherwise have been if the student population voted absentee thereby spreading their votes among their own communities back home. Quite frankly, I don't understand why ANYONE (democrat or republican) is against this. How is it stifling anyone's right to vote? Don't the citizens of a university community have an equal right to an election outcome that is determined by people who actually plan to live there indefinitely (not just for four years)?
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 9, 2011 11:34:50 GMT -5
I don't see requiring ID to be a poll tax. Yes, you have to pay for an ID, but you have to pay for the transportation to get yourself to the polls, and you have to pay for the clothes you wear so you're not voting naked, which I'm pretty sure would be Public Lewdness. If you're poor, you can find organizations to give you food and clothes, you can also get cash assistance which you can use to get an ID, which is a basic requirement for life. There is no requirement to pay for transportation or clothes to vote, you are allowed to obtain those items any way you feel. Requiring an ID is very specific in that you have to pay a government agency for it. If you are poor you can get cash assistance? So this is a tax on people who are not poor? I'm not seeing the difference. If you want to require an ID give it away for free with the voter registration card.
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ChiTownVenture
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Post by ChiTownVenture on Mar 9, 2011 11:37:42 GMT -5
but they are not required to do so. they can absolutely declare residency in the place where they live the majority of the year. celebrities declare residency wherever they wish, why can't the average Joe College Student do the same? chiver: It is not about not allowing college students to vote; it's about not allowing college students to vote in a place of temporary residence where their votes could swing LOCAL elections, the results of which could have a long-term impact on the community where the college or university is located. Eventually the student graduates and leaves that area behind and they won't have to "live" with their vote. This is not about taking away anyone's right to vote. It is just about making sure that the block of votes that comes from temporary residents does not result in a different outcome than what might otherwise have been if the student population voted absentee thereby spreading their votes among their own communities back home. Quite frankly, I don't understand why ANYONE (democrat or republican) is against this. How is it stifling anyone's right to vote? Don't the citizens of a university community have an equal right to an election outcome that is determined by people who actually plan to live there indefinitely (not just for four years)? How do you decide who is going to live there indefinitely and who is not? If a person wants to claim residence they should be able to whether they are in college or not.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Mar 9, 2011 11:40:39 GMT -5
What will happen if the address on your ID is wrong? Have they addressed that? I have been in my house for 5.5 years and my DL still has my old address on it. My DL expires next year so I will get a new one then. If I need to have current addy an the DL to vote you better believe I will go get a new one. you can change your address online now. You also need to register as a voter in your district and be on the rolls with an address in the voting district. As far as voter disenfranchment, the left fought tooth and nail to prevent overseas military personell from voting in the recent elections. Really? I didn't know about that. What did they do? Im pretty sure NY, which is primarily a Dem state, extended the deadline for absentee ballots for active duty military. In most places the "deadline" for receipt of an absentee ballot is written into law. Where I live, the ballot HAS TO be received by election day for it to be counted. Some areas did not get their ballots printed in a timely manner so that they could be mailed overseas and received back by the deadline.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 9, 2011 11:47:27 GMT -5
I don't see requiring ID to be a poll tax. Yes, you have to pay for an ID, but you have to pay for the transportation to get yourself to the polls, and you have to pay for the clothes you wear so you're not voting naked, which I'm pretty sure would be Public Lewdness. If you're poor, you can find organizations to give you food and clothes, you can also get cash assistance which you can use to get an ID, which is a basic requirement for life. There is no requirement to pay for transportation or clothes to vote, you are allowed to obtain those items any way you feel. Requiring an ID is very specific in that you have to pay a government agency for it. If you are poor you can get cash assistance? So this is a tax on people who are not poor? I'm not seeing the difference. If you want to require an ID give it away for free with the voter registration card. I don't have a problem with a voter registration card as you suggested.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Mar 9, 2011 11:49:39 GMT -5
chiver: It is not about not allowing college students to vote; it's about not allowing college students to vote in a place of temporary residence where their votes could swing LOCAL elections, the results of which could have a long-term impact on the community where the college or university is located. Eventually the student graduates and leaves that area behind and they won't have to "live" with their vote. This is not about taking away anyone's right to vote. It is just about making sure that the block of votes that comes from temporary residents does not result in a different outcome than what might otherwise have been if the student population voted absentee thereby spreading their votes among their own communities back home. Quite frankly, I don't understand why ANYONE (democrat or republican) is against this. How is it stifling anyone's right to vote? Don't the citizens of a university community have an equal right to an election outcome that is determined by people who actually plan to live there indefinitely (not just for four years)? How do you decide who is going to live there indefinitely and who is not? If a person wants to claim residence they should be able to whether they are in college or not. And how does the typical college student decide that they DO plan to live there permanently when they haven't even graduated yet? Some still don't even know what they want to be when they grow up, to say nothing about whether that community will be able to provide them a job upon graduation. How is requiring them to vote absentee an infringement on their rights? Could you PLEASE explain what the PROBLEM with that is.
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Post by Savoir Faire-Demogague in NJ on Mar 9, 2011 11:52:02 GMT -5
Yeah, that is an odd dynamic. When I was in college I never voted on local issues for that reason.
Same here.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 9, 2011 11:55:54 GMT -5
Quite frankly, I don't understand why ANYONE (democrat or republican) is against this. How is it stifling anyone's right to vote? Don't the citizens of a university community have an equal right to an election outcome that is determined by people who actually plan to live there indefinitely (not just for four years)?Yeah, that is an odd dynamic. When I was in college I never voted on local issues for that reason. so why do we allow renters - which many view as transient - to vote? because it's their right to do so.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Mar 9, 2011 11:57:21 GMT -5
Quite frankly, I don't understand why ANYONE (democrat or republican) is against this. How is it stifling anyone's right to vote? Don't the citizens of a university community have an equal right to an election outcome that is determined by people who actually plan to live there indefinitely (not just for four years)?Yeah, that is an odd dynamic. When I was in college I never voted on local issues for that reason. deminmaine: Thank goodness someone recognizes the problem besides me. I have to commend you for having the forethought to leave the vote on local issues with the people who would actually have to live with them long term, but my gut tells me that would not be the case with the majority of students. Just like most debating the issue here on this thread, they would feel that they have the RIGHT to have a vote regardless of whether they planned to live in the community long term or not.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Mar 9, 2011 12:02:02 GMT -5
Quite frankly, I don't understand why ANYONE (democrat or republican) is against this. How is it stifling anyone's right to vote? Don't the citizens of a university community have an equal right to an election outcome that is determined by people who actually plan to live there indefinitely (not just for four years)?Yeah, that is an odd dynamic. When I was in college I never voted on local issues for that reason. so why do we allow renters - which many view as transient - to vote? because it's their right to do so. No one is talking about taking away the student's right to vote.
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Bluerobin
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Post by Bluerobin on Mar 9, 2011 12:02:55 GMT -5
Gotta raise the age back up to 21. That will help!
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 9, 2011 12:07:07 GMT -5
so why do we allow renters - which many view as transient - to vote? because it's their right to do so. No one is talking about taking away the student's right to vote. you just said This is not about taking away anyone's right to vote. It is just about making sure that the block of votes that comes from temporary residents does not result in a different outcome than what might otherwise have been if the student population voted absentee thereby spreading their votes among their own communities back home. it is if you force a college kid to vote absentee in the district where he grew up because you deem him a temporary resident. he doesn't get to vote on local things that will directly affect him while he's here. what's the limits on temporary, anyway? do I get to vote if I move next year? will I have to wait until I've been there long enough to qualify as a permanent resident?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 9, 2011 12:08:28 GMT -5
Gotta raise the age back up to 21. That will help! so you can die in service for your country, but can't drink or vote? yeah, that makes sense.
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dancinmama
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Post by dancinmama on Mar 9, 2011 12:19:36 GMT -5
No one is talking about taking away the student's right to vote. you just said This is not about taking away anyone's right to vote. It is just about making sure that the block of votes that comes from temporary residents does not result in a different outcome than what might otherwise have been if the student population voted absentee thereby spreading their votes among their own communities back home. it is if you force a college kid to vote absentee in the district where he grew up because you deem him a temporary resident. he doesn't get to vote on local things that will directly affect him while he's here. what's the limits on temporary, anyway? do I get to vote if I move next year? will I have to wait until I've been there long enough to qualify as a permanent resident? The point is that it is highly likely that his/her vote will not effect him/her for the long term - after graduation, but it certainly could have an impact on the local community that he/she leaves behind. I do not "deem" anyone a temporary resident; it's just a fact for most university/college students.
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