3rd child

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I can think of a million things I'd rather do with the money I send to daycare every month.

I get slightly ill if I think about it too much, where the hell was that money going pre-kids?!!

So feeling that way is totally normal.

The question would be are you ready to be done and eventually have that money back to spend on yourself. Would you resent having to "start over" with a third child and pushing those things you want further back.

If the answer is yes then you are probably ready to be done.  If you're okay with being last on the list as far as wants for awhile longer then consider it.

DH brought up the idea of a third kid and for five seconds I considered it but I am ready to be done.  We got 3.5 years to go and then my second will be in school.  We can then take all that money we've been spending on daycare and put it elsewhere.

I'm ready to be done with breastfeeding and diapers too.   I have zero interest in starting over again with a third child.

[Deleted]

So if you're grossing a little under 70K are you overwithholding on taxes?  $3872 sounds low to me for net on that...but I guess I don't know what kind of deductions you have. 

[Angel!]

Apr 1, 2015 14:02:50 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

Our take home is 3872. The numbers might be off a little.


We don't have co-pays with my husbands insurance, but we take the money out of savings to pay our portion of the bills.  Maybe an HSA would be a better idea instead of the Roth?   It is a 4,000 deductible plan where we pay 80% until we hit it and then pay 20%.  We almost always hit the deductible. 

A medical category should have been on that list that I made a few posts back, but I forgot!

Set up an HSA TODAY!!!

Why are you taking money out of savings when you could take it out of an HSA If you know you are going to spend $4K/yr on medical costs, then have that taken directly out of your check & put it into an HSA. That will save you FICA taxes which is 7.625% & have it be totally tax-free, which probably saves you another 15% given your income & whatever you pay in state taxes.

By not paying with an HSA you are forcing yourself to earn over $5K in income to pay $4K in medical bills.  An HSA will allow you to pay the same $4k in bills tax-free saving you AT LEAST $1K.

[imawino]

How old are the kids you have now?

Will you go back to work when they are older? 

Is your husbands job/career stable? 

Is he likely to be earning more in the future or is he about maxed out?  

If you can't afford to let your existing kids participate in activities/lessons/camps/sports because you have a 3rd, how much will that bother you? 

What kind of life do you want to give them? 

I don't really want to ask personal questions about your health, but why do you seem so sure that if you don't have another baby really soon, you won't be able to?  (meaning, is it a legitimate concern that a health issue is going to make you infertile in two years, or is there a remote possibility you will be infertile in a few years, and you like using that a reason to want to get pregnant now?)

What do you have in retirement now?

What are you contributing to it currently?

ETA:  would adopting be an option for you?  Maybe then you wouldn't have to stress over possible future fertility issues?

[chalupabatman]

Yogi- I don't feel cheated, I just was pointing out that there are some times that I wish we didn't have to watch our money so closely.   And they are very much so worth it.  I put sacrifice in quotes because to many those are not sacrifices, we are very blessed. 


Thecaptain-  I wish we could do all of those things for our children, but I dont think it is possible on our income to do those for the 2 we have now.  We would have to get a payment plan with the orthodontist and figure the monthly payments out when they need braces...etc. 

[imawino]

Apr 1, 2015 14:02:50 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

Our take home is 3872. The numbers might be off a little.


We don't have co-pays with my husbands insurance, but we take the money out of savings to pay our portion of the bills.  Maybe an HSA would be a better idea instead of the Roth?   It is a 4,000 deductible plan where we pay 80% until we hit it and then pay 20%.  We almost always hit the deductible. 

A medical category should have been on that list that I made a few posts back, but I forgot!


Drama-  I could really scale down on Christmas and gifts in general.  I spend too much.  I am not sure how much I want these various funds to have, but I would like a line in the budget for them. 

It is very unlikely that we will ever make the type of money that most of the people on here make. 

Didn't you post that you have only $150 in savings?  So where is that $4k going to come from this year?

[yogiii]

Don't you need to be part of an HDHP plan that offers an HSA to open an HSA?
An FSA might be an option for her, if her existing plan is more like a PPO. 
Or maybe I'm wrong about that.

[Blonde Granny]

As a recent convert and someone who has never had any concern regarding how much we spend every month, I now highly recommend spending the money to purchase the software called YNAB....You need a budget.

It will open your eyes quickly to how much you are spending and where. Dh & I are retired and have been for years, and this is a first for us. When setting up our categories we came up with 31 different places we spend money. As YNAB says, we gave all the dollars of our monthly income a job.  Everything, and I mean everything is budgeted.  When the total set amount is spent, that means no more spending.  It also means we don't rob Peter to pay Paul.  If eating out is at $0, we don't take the money from vacation savings to go out to eat.

Many of us here use YNAB and I now agree, it's the easiest way to handle your money and make it work for you, rather than you working for the money. You can even get a 30 day free trial.

I agree with Captain, if vacations or a honeymoon has you feeling all wishy-washy inside, and you can barely make it now, maybe it's time for some tough decisions.  No one ever said being an adult and making sound adult decisions was easy.

[kittensaver]

Apr 1, 2015 13:56:45 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

I don't get my hair colored, I get it cut at cheap places, I don't get my nails done, we don't vacation, don't spend much on our clothing.  We drive old cars, etc.  I am not complaining, but im not going to lie and say that doing some of these things some of the time wouldn't be nice.

It's all relative. Except for a get-away vacation once a year (for our mental health, the other "vacations" we take are to visit family for life events like weddings, baptisms, graduations, etc) I live exactly like you do (minimal clothing costs, very little hair/makeup/nails, old cars, DIY around the house, grow my own food, etc). And my empty-nest DINK household income is probably close to double of yours. I don't think more money automatically changes or solves these things. I believe that for most things, it does indeed come down to your values and your choices based on your values. I prefer to save money for retirement because I don't want to eat cat food when I'm a 90 year old widow. Seriously.

Sometimes it's not about what you make. Sometimes it's about how well you use and hang on to what you make. But only you can evaluate that.

[Angel!]

Apr 1, 2015 14:12:44 GMT -5 imawino said:

How old are the kids you have now?

Will you go back to work when they are older? 

Is your husbands job/career stable? 

Is he likely to be earning more in the future or is he about maxed out?  

If you can't afford to let your existing kids participate in activities/lessons/camps/sports because you have a 3rd, how much will that bother you? 

What kind of life do you want to give them? 

I don't really want to ask personal questions about your health, but why do you seem so sure that if you don't have another baby really soon, you won't be able to?  (meaning, is it a legitimate concern that a health issue is going to make you infertile in two years, or is there a remote possibility you will be infertile in a few years, and you like using that a reason to want to get pregnant now?)

What do you have in retirement now?

What are you contributing to it currently?

All really good questions. Especially the ones about what kind of life you want to give your kids. I know all my kids will never have the life The Captain described. My kids will want for things, but they won't be needs.  They won't go without braces or surgery if they need them.  But, they aren't getting every activity or camp available either.  And they won't have full-paid college.

For the most part, I am ok with those things.  Honestly it was never my goal to fully pay for my kids college.  My parents didn't pay for mine & I don't see it as a need.  But, if you do, then rethink the 3rd kid.  My kids are likely always going to have to choose 1 activity at a time per kid just based on time commitment & money.  If it bothers you that your kids may not be able to each get music lessons, swim lessons, & play soccer all at the same time, then rethink another kid.

[chalupabatman]

In Drama and Angels situation they are paying a ton in daycare and that will not last forever, that money will be back in their pockets someday. We pay 140/mo. for preschool, that is it.


Can you set up an HSA any time, or do you have to wait until an enrollment period? 

My husband contributes 4% to his 401k and carries all medical, dental, vision out of this checks.  I don't know about the tax stuff.  I do 10% into my 401k but make 11,000 a year so its not very much. 

I am going to try to figure out how to adjust the withholdings. 

I have a 16 month old and an almost 4 year old. 

I never had a career, so I am not sure what I will do when they get older.  Probably increase my hours at my current job.  My husband has a stable job and will be going back to school to finish his degree.  That should boost his earning potential quite a bit.  This is something he wants to do anyways, I think it really bothers him that he never finished. 

I had cancer when I was 24 and never had my eggs frozen.  With the chemo they weren't sure I would be able to have children at all.  A couple years later I found out I had endometriosis. The surgeon who removed the endometriosis had told me that it was bad and she told me she would have all the kids I wanted soon so that if/when I need a hysterectomy my family would be (hopefully complete)

There is no guarantee that I wont be able to get pregnant if I wait, or that I will need the hysterectomy.  I have had minimal symptoms since then.  Spacing is also a concern. 

I would not like it if my kids could not participate in activities, that would make me feel sad. 

[Angel!]

Apr 1, 2015 14:18:32 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Don't you need to be part of an HDHP plan that offers an HSA to open an HSA?
An FSA might be an option for her, if her existing plan is more like a PPO. 
Or maybe I'm wrong about that.

I assumed because she kept mentioning an HSA that she was eligible. A $4K deductible with no copays sounds like an HDHP, but maybe it isn't.

But, you are right, she does need to be eligible to have one & use it.

[chalupabatman]

FSA vs HSA..which is the one where you can roll the money over from year to year?

[Angel!]

Apr 1, 2015 14:28:21 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

FSA vs HSA..which is the one where you can roll the money over from year to year?

HSA, but only certain health plans are eligible.

I think you can set it up anytime.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Chalupa if you are unsure about your fertility I'd suggest before you decide anything that you visit with a reproductive endocrinologist. 

All they deal with is fertility issues, that is their specialty. They will be the most up to date on current information involving fertility and treatments.

I would seek one out and get a consult.   Then you can discuss whatever they say with your spouse in regards to your fertility and how you might want to handle it.

[imawino]

Apr 1, 2015 14:25:59 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

In Drama and Angels situation they are paying a ton in daycare and that will not last forever, that money will be back in their pockets someday. We pay 140/mo. for preschool, that is it.


Can you set up an HSA any time, or do you have to wait until an enrollment period? 

My husband contributes 4% to his 401k and carries all medical, dental, vision out of this checks.  I don't know about the tax stuff.  I do 10% into my 401k but make 11,000 a year so its not very much. 

I am going to try to figure out how to adjust the withholdings. 

I have a 16 month old and an almost 4 year old. 

I never had a career, so I am not sure what I will do when they get older.  Probably increase my hours at my current job.  My husband has a stable job and will be going back to school to finish his degree.  That should boost his earning potential quite a bit.  This is something he wants to do anyways, I think it really bothers him that he never finished. 

I had cancer when I was 24 and never had my eggs frozen.  With the chemo they weren't sure I would be able to have children at all.  A couple years later I found out I had endometriosis. The surgeon who removed the endometriosis had told me that it was bad and she told me she would have all the kids I wanted soon so that if/when I need a hysterectomy my family would be (hopefully complete)

There is no guarantee that I wont be able to get pregnant if I wait, or that I will need the hysterectomy.  I have had minimal symptoms since then.  Spacing is also a concern. 

I would not like it if my kids could not participate in activities, that would make me feel sad. 

I am really sorry to hear of your health issues!  And happy for you that you've been cancer free and doing so well. 

No one can tell you what to do, or what will make you happy.  But since your OP did ask for opinions I will say this - the more you post the more I think that Bill's plan of waiting and saving a couple years makes the most sense for you given both your current financial circumstances, and the fact that you don't seem 100% sure.   Also, while I certainly don't think kids should get to participate in a zillion activities or get everything they want - you are saying above it would make you unhappy not to be able to do some things for your kids and it does seem like you would be putting yourself in a position where they could participate in absolutely no paid activities.  And the lack of retirement savings may make you a burden on them later.   

[Angel!]

Apr 1, 2015 14:25:59 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

In Drama and Angels situation they are paying a ton in daycare and that will not last forever, that money will be back in their pockets someday. We pay 140/mo. for preschool, that is it.

And that is going to be a cost for a long time, especially if you have another kid. When one starts kindy, the next is going to be going into preschool. Same with your diapers costs if you have another kid.

So really all you have to look forward to is pay increases to increase your lifestyle. If you know those are coming that is one thing. Like I get raises every year & they have average ~6%/yr over the last decade. So although they aren't guaranteed, I can pretty much count on my income increasing by some amount each year. But, if it is dependent on finishing school he hasn't even started or they aren't guaranteed, that isn't something to really count on or look forward to.

Also, your retirement savings is low and if you aren't looking at a large decrease in expenses (like daycare) in the future or a large increase in income, then that isn't good because at some point you probably need to increase that %.

I would not like it if my kids could not participate in activities, that would make me feel sad. 

Then rethink a 3rd kid. Because that is something you will think about. For DS1, I have only been able to afford 1 activity at a time and I do think about the things he isn't getting to do. He loves soccer, but then I feel he needs swim lessons & for now it has to be one or the other. We can rotate the activities, so it isn't really all that bad, but it will be something you think about. So if that thought already bothers you....

[chalupabatman]

We just got done paying about 1500 in medical bills out of savings. We also bought a washer and dryer- 850 out of savings.  150 is what is left

[The Captain]

So other than the fact the bio clock is ticking, what do you think a 3rd child will add to your life that you don't already have?

[swamp]

I would not like it if my kids could not participate in activities, that would make me feel sad.  

I have 2 kids.  They have constraints on activities because of the time commitment and scheduling issues, not the finances.   I can only be in one place at one time, and activities overlap.   I am fortunate that I have a helpful spouse and local grandparents that are willing and able to help.    

[swamp]

Apr 1, 2015 14:51:03 GMT -5 The Captain said:

So other than the fact the bio clock is ticking, what do you think a 3rd child will add to your life that you don't already have?

The ability to play zone defense.

[kittensaver]

Apr 1, 2015 14:54:45 GMT -5 swamp said:

Apr 1, 2015 14:51:03 GMT -5 The Captain said:

So other than the fact the bio clock is ticking, what do you think a 3rd child will add to your life that you don't already have?

The ability to play zone defense.

The ability to take sides in cases of sibling rivalry.

[chalupabatman]

The activities here are usually around 6-10 weeks long. I dont think they would ever be able to do more than 1 each at a time due to logistics and timing anyways. But I definitely get what you are all saying.

I agree with the people who say that we should wait a 2-3 years.  That gives my husband time to finish his degree and also time for the little one to get out of diapers and us time to replenish our savings account.  

I have a horrible tendency to be compulsive and I don't want to continue making financial mistakes.  We are not good with money. 

This is a dumb question, but how do you find out if you are in a HDHP plan? 
 

[The Captain]

Apr 1, 2015 14:14:49 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

Yogi- I don't feel cheated, I just was pointing out that there are some times that I wish we didn't have to watch our money so closely.   And they are very much so worth it.  I put sacrifice in quotes because to many those are not sacrifices, we are very blessed. 


Thecaptain-  I wish we could do all of those things for our children, but I dont think it is possible on our income to do those for the 2 we have now.  We would have to get a payment plan with the orthodontist and figure the monthly payments out when they need braces...etc. 

I have to respectfully disagree.  Look at it from a different angle.

Your youngest is currently 16 months.  You are looking at things as they exist now.  If you have another child it is not likely that won't change much for at least 5  or 6 more years.

HOWEVER - if your youngest starts school at age, let's say 6 - you can work more hours as you stated after your above post.  Take the 9+ months of pregnancy + 16months (age of youngest) and that at a minimum is the opportunity cost in increased work hours/pay - or over 2 years if you have another child.  I'm willing to bet two + (or even more) years of extra pay/hours would cover braces and a decent amount of activities.

[The Captain]

Apr 1, 2015 14:54:45 GMT -5 swamp said:

Apr 1, 2015 14:51:03 GMT -5 The Captain said:

So other than the fact the bio clock is ticking, what do you think a 3rd child will add to your life that you don't already have?

The ability to play zone defense.

(I'm thinking that's a sports reference but I'm totally not getting it)

[swamp]

Apr 1, 2015 15:00:03 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Apr 1, 2015 14:54:45 GMT -5 swamp said:

The ability to play zone defense.

(I'm thinking that's a sports reference but I'm totally not getting it)

It is. When you do from 2 kids to 3, you can no longer play man to man defense, you need to take on at least 2 kids at a time. That's zone defense.

[Deleted]

Apr 1, 2015 14:54:22 GMT -5 swamp said:

I would not like it if my kids could not participate in activities, that would make me feel sad.  

I have 2 kids.  They have constraints on activities because of the time commitment and scheduling issues, not the finances.   I can only be in one place at one time, and activities overlap.   I am fortunate that I have a helpful spouse and local grandparents that are willing and able to help.    

I'm in the same boat.  Although, it's not so much that they overlap all the time as I just need to get home a couple nights a week after work or I'll lose my mind.  

[The Captain]

Apr 1, 2015 14:58:03 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

The activities here are usually around 6-10 weeks long. I dont think they would ever be able to do more than 1 each at a time due to logistics and timing anyways. But I definitely get what you are all saying.

I agree with the people who say that we should wait a 2-3 years.  That gives my husband time to finish his degree and also time for the little one to get out of diapers and us time to replenish our savings account.  

I have a horrible tendency to be compulsive and I don't want to continue making financial mistakes.  We are not good with money. 

This is a dumb question, but how do you find out if you are in a HDHP plan? 
 

The only dumb question is the one you don't ask...

Your annual enrollment material from your employer should have identified which plans are HDHP and which ones are not.  However Wiki actually did a decent job of explaining it:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-deductible_health_plan

So for a family plan you minimum individual deductible cannot be under 1300, while the family deductible cannot be under 2600.

2015[4] $1,300 $2,600 $6,450 $12,900

[The Captain]

Apr 1, 2015 15:01:38 GMT -5 swamp said:

Apr 1, 2015 15:00:03 GMT -5 The Captain said:

(I'm thinking that's a sports reference but I'm totally not getting it)

It is. When you do from 2 kids to 3, you can no longer play man to man defense, you need to take on at least 2 kids at a time. That's zone defense.

ahh, now I get it.

(Yet another reason DH and I stopped at one, WE get to double team on her mwuhahahah )

[chalupabatman]

I love infants and I love the little people my infants have grown in to. I thought that I would want to stop at 2, but the thought of never being pregnant again makes me very sad. 

I wish I had a better answer