3rd child

[chalupabatman]

I need some help!  My husband and I would love at least 1 more child, but financially I am not sure that is responsible.   I am very conflicted because I want a large family and know we would regret not trying to make it work.

We are 30.  I have had serious medical issues in the past that have the potential to impact our ability to conceive if we were to wait until my mid-late 30's.

I do not feel comfortable with the amount in our retirement accounts.  With a late start, we are VERY behind in that aspect.   We also do not have very much in our savings account. 

I would like to build up a buffer in the savings account and then save 3-4000 separately for the delivery, and other baby expenses. 

This will likely take 2-3 years, but even if we are able to manage this... it seems tight. 

Can anyone offer advice? 

[TheHaitian]

As someone that thought I had forever to have a biological child only to find out my chances were dropping as I aged to now close to non existent : GO FOR IT.

Seriously, it's only money... Having a child is costing us more money now than if I tried when I was young, broke and physically could.


(I am going to YM hell).

[ArchietheDragon]

You will figure out a way to make it work.

[Angel!]

I think this isn't the typical YM response, but I have met more people that have regretted not having 1 more kid than have regretted having the 1 more kid.  I wanted 1 more kid for a while (I had 2). Then I wasn't going to be able to have one & I was very sad. Although, I did know it wasn't totally responsible & I was concerned that then I would have 3 & find myself again wanting 1 more kid.  But, through a weird twist in events I did end up pregnant when I wasn't expecting it & totally don't regret it.  Yes, I am a lot poorer than I would be otherwise.  I can't afford the big house & won't retire at 50.  But, for me it is worth it.  Somehow my family feels whole & I have no interest in having another.

So depending on what you mean by not financially responsible, I would say go for it.  If not financially responsible means being on welfare, then no.  But, if not financially responsible means maybe losing a few years of retirement contributions, then decide if it is worth the trade.  For me it totally was. 

[billisonboard]

Apr 1, 2015 12:03:19 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

...

I would like to build up a buffer in the savings account and then save 3-4000 separately for the delivery, and other baby expenses. 

This will likely take 2-3 years, but even if we are able to manage this... it seems tight. 

Can anyone offer advice? 

This sounds like an excellent plan. Establish the dollar amount for what that buffer will be. Establish the exact amount you want in that delivery/baby expense account. Over the next couple of years, every time you consider spending money on things that are not absolute necessities consider putting the money into those accounts instead. If in two-three years, you have met the dollar amounts you established, you will have proven to yourselves that the child was a priority. If you have spent the money on other things, that third child wasn't quite as important as you thought.

[chalupabatman]

Thank you for your responses! I am not going to lie, finances are TIGHT.   There are not many places to cut from anymore.  On a month that we do well staying in budget for groceries, gas and misc.  we have around 300 to go to savings and 100 to go to our kid's college funds.

We make just under 70,000 per year.  

Archie:  I was hoping this is what I would hear, but what if we cant make it work?

Carl:  I hope that you and your wife find a resolution that you are both happy with.  I am rooting for you.

Angel:  I can not be sure that another child will be enough to feel done, what if I want a 4th..where does it end? We will not be on welfare, but I will worry about where money will come from to replace our vehicles, or go on a vacation, or not constantly stress about not making enough money

[ArchietheDragon]

Apr 1, 2015 12:32:09 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

Archie:  I was hoping this is what I would hear, but what if we cant make it work?

Then you struggle, or sacrifice.  at $70k you are not going to be living on the street or starving. 

[chalupabatman]

There are glaring holes in our budget. These are the things that I would like to include, but can not at the moment:


Roth IRAS
Life insurance on myself
home improvement fund
car replacement fund
HSA
vacation fund
a larger amount for personal care, gifts, xmas

This is what I meant about irresponsible.  I may be missing more categories that we should have, but do not. 

Does more information change your mind?  Do we make more progress on the above list or make more children a priority?

Billison:  I think 3,000 as an EF and then 4,000 for baby would be the set amounts I would feel comfortable with.  We currently have a whopping 150 dollars in our savings account

[justme]

Well, how much is it that you truly have nothing to cut? Most daycares are more than 400 a month and that would leave you with no savings at all.

Are there things to sacrifice to have a third kid or are you already sacrificing everything for two?

[ArchietheDragon]

I will say, stop saving for college. That is priority number 148 and you are working on number 18. You have more important fish to fry.

[yogiii]

Are you a SAHM?  Do you already have a vehicle that can haul 3 kids?

[chen35]

You will make it work. I agree with Carl, if you wait a few years it may be too late, fertility wise. Especially since you've had health issues, I would make the decision now. 

The more kids you have the more likely one of them will support you in retirement 

Good luck with whatever you decide!

[Angel!]

Apr 1, 2015 12:32:09 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

Angel:  I can not be sure that another child will be enough to feel done, what if I want a 4th..where does it end?

I was really worried about that too.  And I don't know if you can predict how you will feel & that is scary. I thought I would be happy with 2. Most of my life I assumed I would have 2. Within months of my 2nd being born I knew I wanted another & it completely threw me for a loop. I wondered too, where would it end...would I have a 3rd & start craving a 4th?

I can't tell you what will happen. I do know that ever since my 3rd was born (he is 16 months now) I have felt no need for a 4th AT ALL. I actually laugh when people ask if I want another.  But, there could be other factors at play in my feelings.  First, I literally could not afford another, I am pretty much dead broke as it is, we would all be moving in with my parents if I got pregnant again.  Second, I had some medical issues with my 3rd & was told repeatedly throughout my pregnancy that it is strongly suggested I not have more kids.  It would be very high risk & dangerous for the baby if I were to get pregnant again.  I was actually very grateful that there were no complications with my 3rd & it just involved tons of testing to keep verifying he was doing ok.   Third, I am no longer with my ex...we had actually split before I learned I was pregnant with my 3rd (which is why it was such a surprise).

So it is possible that my feeling that 3 is plenty is more related to circumstances than anything.  But, I do totally feel happy with 3 & can't imagine wanting or having another.  But, at the time I wasn't sure that is how I was going to feel.

[Angel!]

Apr 1, 2015 12:40:03 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

I will say, stop saving for college. That is priority number 148 and you are working on number 18. You have more important fish to fry.

Also - Is there going to be daycare costs?

That is really the biggest expense with a kid.  Outside of that, kids kind of cost as much as you want them to cost.

[chen35]

Angel!

Not to get off topic, but I am impressed by your declutter totals. How do you find time for that?!

[Deleted]

Show me your budget.  I can make room for a kid! 

I say have as many as you want and can reasonably take care of.  By that I mean, they are fed, clothed and have a roof over their heads.  The rest is just icing anyhow.  I was not done at one.  I kept all my baby stuff even though I was 35 and had just gotten divorced,  I get that draw and feeling of incompleteness.  But after number two I was DONE.  I was unloading the clothes before he even outgrew them. 

[Angel!]

Apr 1, 2015 12:47:16 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Are you a SAHM?  Do you already have a vehicle that can haul 3 kids?

Really any vehicle that has 3 seatbelts in the back can fit 3 kids of varying ages. My oldest wears this to sit between the other 2 carseats in the back of my civic:

saferide4kids.com/product/ridesafer-travel-vest-v2

[Blonde Granny]

chalupabatman, perhaps you need to pop over to the Your Money forum and post your income and budget numbers. There will be many who will help with ideas of altering expenses etc. in order to help you feel more comfortable with whatever decision you make.  If getting out of debt is a priority, then WIR is the place to be.

BG - Admin YM & YMOT

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

This is what I meant about irresponsible.

Do you really want all those things or do you think you need them b/c you read somewhere you have to have them?

A vacation can be as inexpensive or as expensive as you want. What kind of trips are you talking about? How much do you think you need to save?

Same with a gift fund. Gifts can be as inexpensive or expensive as you prefer. You can easily cut back on the types of gifts you give or the amount of gifts you give. What are you thinking you have to have in a gift fund in order to consider yourself "responsible"?

I can think of a million things I should have done financially and career wise before I considered having a second kid, but we make it work. I can't imagine not having my second little girl in my life.

 
I panic sometimes but when I step back and look at reality and not the skewed reality that is the boards we're doing pretty good compared to a lot of people our age

 

If you have fertility issues personally I would focus on that, you may not have time 2-3 years down the road to change your mind.  You still have 30+ years left in your working life to accomplish all your financial goals so it's not like if you have a child now you are doomed  forever.

[Angel!]

Apr 1, 2015 12:53:12 GMT -5 chen35 said:

Angel!

Not to get off topic, but I am impressed by your declutter totals. How do you find time for that?!

I don't think you should be impressed with the time spent, but rather amazed at the amount of crap I have in my house.  

To be fair A LOT of it was baby clothes & baby stuff that I am starting to ...more proof I have no interest in another kid.    I had saved all DDs stuff because I wanted another, had a decent amount of DS1s stuff, & then a friend gave me several LARGE trash bags of baby clothes when I was pregnant with DS2.   Then I have finally pretty much cleaned the house out of ex's stuff.  And then he had hoarding tendencies, so I had random crap in my garage like a box of wires from miscellaneous electronics or a entire box of empty DVD cases.  It turns out it isn't hard to get rid of a lot when you have so much junk in your house.

[yogiii]

Also how would you feel if you had twins?  I know a few people IRL who going for the 2nd ended up with 3, and in one case going for the 3rd ended up with 4.

[Angel!]

Apr 1, 2015 12:37:56 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

There are glaring holes in our budget. These are the things that I would like to include, but can not at the moment:


Roth IRAS
Life insurance on myself
home improvement fund
car replacement fund
HSA
vacation fund
a larger amount for personal care, gifts, xmas

This is what I meant about irresponsible.  I may be missing more categories that we should have, but do not. 

Does more information change your mind?  Do we make more progress on the above list or make more children a priority?

Which is more important to you?

I am not putting any money in ROTHS, I am only putting 2% in my 401k ATM.  Life insurance is through work & costs $20/month.  My home improvement fund is non-existent & I pay for emergency repairs out of my meager savings.  I have no car replacement fund & I hoping my civic with 140K miles will make it a few more years.  I do have an HSA, but that is a need because I have a $4K deductible & hit it every year.  I have no vacation fund...my last vacation was 1 night in a hotel ~2 hours from my house...can't remember the last on before that.  And after all my bills - daycare, housing, utilities, food & gas - I have $350 a month left over for savings, gifts, personal care, & basically everything else.  At this time you are putting more in savings & kid's college funds than I even have left to spend at the end of the month.

My point is - I'm sure you can totally make it work & be fine.  You just cut back...you don't save for retirement for a while, spend less on vacations, don't get a new car, spend less on gifts, etc.  The only important factor is are you ok with living like that for a while?  If you aren't, then you shouldn't have a kid.  If you don't mind cutting back & a kid is that important to you, then go for it.

This isn't a question of being able to afford another kid.  This is a question of your priorities & if you can afford another kid AND be happy with the lifestyle that it takes to afford the kid.

ETA - I will add that I am ok with the way I am living now because I am paying out the nose for daycare ($2100/month) & it is temporary.  If I thought this was it for the next ~18 years, I might be a little less happy.

[chalupabatman]

I work on the weekends only and stay home with the kids, so no daycare, except preschool.  I do have a couple shifts during the week from time to time, but they vary. 

BUDGET:

mortgage (includes everything) 1212
cell phone 60 -thank you for that Minnesota paint lady!  I love ting
gas/electric 250 - average, this month it was 196
Student loans 140
preschool 140
water 60
garbage 20
auto insurance 90
life and disability for husband-74
phone/internet/cable 118
Groceries 550
gasoline 375
daughter 100 (clothes, classes, etc)
son 125 (still in diapers)
fun money 80
savings 300
kids savings 100

9800 in student loans at 4.25
186200 3.75% home loan

125 dollars in savings
no car loans

[Deleted]

So, that is $3794.

What is your take-home every month?

[kittensaver]

"This isn't a question of being able to afford another kid. This is a question of your priorities & if you can afford another kid AND be happy with the lifestyle that it takes to afford the kid."

==========================================

[Blonde Granny]

Where is the category for medical?  Dr., dentist, RXs etc?  I don't see credit card payments, car repair, health insurance etc.

[chalupabatman]

I would like a honeymoon. Somewhere where there are beaches and hot sun, beer, no kids! Then I would like to do 1 trip to Disney with the kids, or Wisconsin Dells, that sort of thing.  
 
I worry about twins, health issues, health issues for me, etc.  But those are always concerns.

We will postpone their savings for now.  Could I put that in to a Roth instead? Can you put that little in there at a time?

We "sacrifice" for the kids we have now.  I don't get my hair colored, I get it cut at cheap places, I don't get my nails done, we don't vacation, we dont get a babysitter and go out except about 2 times a year, don't spend much on our clothing.  We drive old cars, etc.  I am not complaining, the kids are WELL worth it, but im not going to lie and say that doing some of these things some of the time wouldn't be nice.

[The Captain]

Sounds like I'm going to be the lone voice potentially against.

OF COURSE ultimately do what your heart tells you, but realize there is always more than one side to a discussion.

OTOH DH and I had DD later in life for many reasons, and were one and done for the same reasons.

DD will never want for anything as long as I can work.  The expensive dental bills that are coming up, yep - those will be covered.  She will be able to get a four year undergrad degree without any SL's and start life without a mountain of debt hanging over her head.

We can afford private music lessons and she got a new bike every time she outgrew her old one.    Not that she ever needed one, but if she ever did need a private tutor to keep up academically we could cover that as well.

DH and I will have a comfortably funded retirement and our child will not have to spend her sandwich years wondering if her parents are ok financially (guess who is dealing with that now?) or even potentially supporting them.

People always say things will work themselves out, but that's not always the case.  I know people with kids who aren't getting needed braces because they can't afford them.  I know kids who graduate college under crushing debt because their parents weren't able to or didn't save for college. 


How many posters have we seen here with multiple kids that say it was impossible to save for college? 

Ultimately you have to decide what your goals are for the children you already have and if you can achieve those goals if you have another child.

You don't hear the downside because everyone thinks it's horrible for a parent to admit that maybe child # "X" wasn't the smartest choice, but based on what you see posted many times here, that seems to be true more than many are willing to admit.

[yogiii]

Apr 1, 2015 13:56:45 GMT -5 chalupabatman said:

I would like a honeymoon. Somewhere where there are beaches and hot sun, beer, no kids! Then I would like to do 1 trip to Disney with the kids, or Wisconsin Dells, that sort of thing.  
 
I worry about twins, health issues, health issues for me, etc.  But those are always concerns.

We will postpone their savings for now.  Could I put that in to a Roth instead? Can you put that little in there at a time?

We "sacrifice" for the kids we have now.  I don't get my hair colored, I get it cut at cheap places, I don't get my nails done, we don't vacation, we dont get a babysitter and go out except about 2 times a year, don't spend much on our clothing.  We drive old cars, etc.  I am not complaining, the kids are WELL worth it, but im not going to lie and say that doing some of these things some of the time wouldn't be nice.

I do basically all those things too but I don't think of them as sacrifices.  I'm just cheap.  If you already feel "cheated" out of life, it won't get any better adding more kids.

[chalupabatman]

Our take home is 3872. The numbers might be off a little.


We don't have co-pays with my husbands insurance, but we take the money out of savings to pay our portion of the bills.  Maybe an HSA would be a better idea instead of the Roth?   It is a 4,000 deductible plan where we pay 80% until we hit it and then pay 20%.  We almost always hit the deductible. 

A medical category should have been on that list that I made a few posts back, but I forgot!


Drama-  I could really scale down on Christmas and gifts in general.  I spend too much.  I am not sure how much I want these various funds to have, but I would like a line in the budget for them. 

It is very unlikely that we will ever make the type of money that most of the people on here make.