Netanyahu To Speak Before Congress.

[deziloooooo]

Mar 3, 2015 16:11:28 GMT -5 wyouser said:

I listened to the address. I do agree with some of his points. first-the current "deal" if closed will see Iran obtain Nukes. This will spark an arms race in the Middle East as non-Shiite nations obtain their own nuclear capacities. Throw in a little Mideast shakiness in governments and we should see many hands with fingers on the buttons. Both government fingers and non government fingers. The last arms race ended without global conflagation when the Soviet Union bankrupted itself and fell apart. The two before that ended with the outbreak of WWI and WWII. Obama has announced today the Netanyahu offers no alternatives to his negotiations. I think he did. He said simply, negotiate a better deal. Of course that was directed at us as Israel cannot negotiate with Iran. That we must lead on or it won't happen. Third- I also saw a very definite clear point when he said Jews were no longer scattered about the world where they can do nothing but be silent. They can , he said, defend themselves, if need be. And alone if necessary. That to me is a very clear comment that Israel has taken no options off the table and will if they feel necessary act on their own.e

wyouser , very good , in fact excellent analyzing  of his speech and interpet  what he said..agree with you on all points... It has already been reported that the Saudis have struck some kind of nuclear deal with Pakistan and has purchased a missile system from the North Koreans ..if not them then some one else..The Saudis don't have to develop their own nuclear program they can well afford to purchase one and both the countrys' mentioned  could use the cash...so a nuclear weapons race is already on...

Israel also gave a veiled warning with out admitting that they have these type of weapons and delivery systems...Three very up to date new German subs..no not nuclear but very, very capable and with their own modifications..extra large torpedo tubes that only have one use .....their version of tomahawk missiles..and I am sure not designed for conventional war heads...also just doubled down on their purchase of our F-35 aircraft....very expensive system but the ultimate in stealth capability as well as fighter capability...

The point is, if all Iran was interested in was nuclear for peaceful , medical reasons , they would have been able to do all that out in the open...open inspections... then no sanctions..but they have done none of that....


As most here know , I have supported Obama on just about most of his inititives or given him the benefit  of the doubt but on this one I have my worries...this going his own way reminds me of other POTUS decisions over the decades that have come back to bite us in the you know where..Part of the problem is the opposition has been so opposite on every thing and all things , there is little if any room at this late date to expect real working together on just about anything...Who's fault..probably both but more so on the oppositions side, IMHO... ..Remember..leader of opposition own words..to paraphrase..his prime objective was to see the POTUS  become a one term President and he did all he could to try and accomplish that goal...he failed but the damage was done..as can be seen by this invite to Bibi...he still is trying to do all he can to zing the man ..so that the man is going alone at this junction on this item...understandable..Smart? NO..but understandable...in a way anyway.

[mroped]

In a scenario where Iran or Sirya acquires nuclear warheads ofcourse with the "approval " from the international comunity, does anyone think that they would attack a country without reason using their nuclear arsenal?
I believe they would just sit tight and revel in how powerful they are. They would also feel treated as equal and probably want to reason on issues that are now untouchable.

What would keep them in check and not use what they have is the fear of retaliation.
Is all about their pride as a people, as a nation and their existence and survival would always prevail.

Would be nice if for once we and the other "great powers" would treat everybody as equal not as some second class human being.

[deziloooooo]

Mar 4, 2015 17:12:47 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Sorry, but under no circumstance is post 29 either correct, or silly.
Very demeaning.    

Don't know who poster is but with 113 posts figure he is here more to just  ...we've had many like em before and seemed to have survived just fine..{sigh..} so we move on now...

[mmhmm]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were no need to proclaim "great powers"? Would that everyone was a "great power".

[mmhmm]

Mar 4, 2015 18:37:11 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Mar 4, 2015 17:12:47 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Sorry, but under no circumstance is post 29 either correct, or silly.
Very demeaning.    

Don't know who poster is but with 113 posts figure he is here more to just  ...we've had many like em before and seemed to have survived just fine..{sigh..} so we move on now...

Dezi, please keep the comments to the posts, not the posters. A person's post count is not relevant. Thanks.

mmhmm, Administrator

[deziloooooo]

Mar 4, 2015 18:33:42 GMT -5 mroped said:

In a scenario where Iran or Sirya acquires nuclear warheads ofcourse with the "approval " from the international comunity, does anyone think that they would attack a country without reason using their nuclear arsenal?
I believe they would just sit tight and revel in how powerful they are. They would also feel treated as equal and probably want to reason on issues that are now untouchable.

What would keep them in check and not use what they have is the fear of retaliation.
Is all about their pride as a people, as a nation and their existence and survival would always prevail.

Would be nice if for once we and the other "great powers" would treat everybody as equal not as some second class human being.

They wouldn't have to "Use " the weapons to meddle, influence, scare, intimidate..pick the adjective..Just look at North Korea..a backward, psychotic non anything positive country who really dictates many things to Japan, one of the major powerhouse nations..South Korea..also a power house modern country..Ourselves..Why would we even give a rats butt about these people..except..they have the weapon and are very close to a delivery system plus being so broke..temptation to sell a weapon..? Why not..ISIL ...very wealthy right now...price for a small one, untraceable..your saying never happen? We are living in very, very ,very dangerouse times....

[wyouser]

Mar 4, 2015 18:37:38 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were no need to proclaim "great powers"? Would that everyone was a "great power".

Thought is nice, but the track record in the past when there were "many" great powers is not very good. The sandbox seems never to be "big" enough for one or all. Plenty of "loose" cannons on the playing field too!

[deziloooooo]

Mar 4, 2015 18:37:38 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were no need to proclaim "great powers"? Would that everyone was a "great power".

Be nice but back to reality....seems there has always been that desire.."great Power "..Possible back to the time of when people used stone/flint  tipped spears and looked over a river and saw another group of folks and thought they had better hunting territory then their own so....

[deziloooooo]

Mar 4, 2015 18:39:25 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Mar 4, 2015 18:37:11 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Don't know who poster is but with 113 posts figure he is here more to just  ...we've had many like em before and seemed to have survived just fine..{sigh..} so we move on now...

Dezi, please keep the comments to the posts, not the posters. A person's post count is not relevant. Thanks.

mmhmm, Administrator

.........

[Deleted]

Are Photoshopped photos allowed on here now?

[weltschmerz]

Mar 4, 2015 17:44:26 GMT -5 mroped said:

Timothy McVeigh comes to mind! I'm not even gonna go into school shootings or what goes in China.

Bad apples are all over. 

You're comparing psycho lone wolf attacks to al Qaeda, the Taliban, Boko Haram, Hezbollah, Hamas, Abu Nidal, ISIL, ISIS, etc.?

Seriously? Who is to say one of the these groups won't overthrow the Iranian government and continue their global jihad against the infidels? They're willing to die for their cause because they'll get their reward in heaven.

[weltschmerz]

Mar 4, 2015 18:33:42 GMT -5 mroped said:

In a scenario where Iran or Sirya acquires nuclear warheads ofcourse with the "approval " from the international comunity, does anyone think that they would attack a country without reason using their nuclear arsenal?
I believe they would just sit tight and revel in how powerful they are. They would also feel treated as equal and probably want to reason on issues that are now untouchable.

What would keep them in check and not use what they have is the fear of retaliation.
Is all about their pride as a people, as a nation and their existence and survival would always prevail.

Would be nice if for once we and the other "great powers" would treat everybody as equal not as some second class human being.

I do. In a heartbeat. 

Much like they attack shopping malls, markets and hotels for no reason. I lost a very good friend when they attacked the Mumbai hotels for absolutely no reason. He was a good man who was there to help people.

[mmhmm]

Mar 4, 2015 18:54:04 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Are Photoshopped photos allowed on here now?

Not if the photoshop is demeaning, sweetdreams.

[Deleted]

In whose view?

[mmhmm]

Mar 4, 2015 19:19:23 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

In whose view?

In the view of staff, acting on behalf of moonbeam, and ProBoards.

[mmhmm]

Mar 4, 2015 18:47:28 GMT -5 wyouser said:

Mar 4, 2015 18:37:38 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were no need to proclaim "great powers"? Would that everyone was a "great power".

Thought is nice, but the track record in the past when there were "many" great powers is not very good. The sandbox seems never to be "big" enough for one or all. Plenty of "loose" cannons on the playing field too!

*chuckle* I've never claimed to be other than a dreamer.

[Deleted]

Mar 4, 2015 19:22:33 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Mar 4, 2015 19:19:23 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

In whose view?

In the view of staff, acting on behalf of moonbeam, and ProBoards.

Ahh.

[Deleted]

Mar 4, 2015 18:45:16 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Mar 4, 2015 18:33:42 GMT -5 mroped said:

In a scenario where Iran or Sirya acquires nuclear warheads ofcourse with the "approval " from the international comunity, does anyone think that they would attack a country without reason using their nuclear arsenal?
I believe they would just sit tight and revel in how powerful they are. They would also feel treated as equal and probably want to reason on issues that are now untouchable.

What would keep them in check and not use what they have is the fear of retaliation.
Is all about their pride as a people, as a nation and their existence and survival would always prevail.

Would be nice if for once we and the other "great powers" would treat everybody as equal not as some second class human being.

They wouldn't have to "Use " the weapons to meddle, influence, scare, intimidate..pick the adjective..Just look at North Korea..a backward, psychotic non anything positive country who really dictates many things to Japan, one of the major powerhouse nations..South Korea..also a power house modern country..Ourselves..Why would we even give a rats butt about these people..except..they have the weapon and are very close to a delivery system plus being so broke..temptation to sell a weapon..? Why not..ISIL ...very wealthy right now...price for a small one, untraceable..your saying never happen? We are living in very, very ,very dangerouse times....

"We are living in very, very ,very dangerouse times...."

Don't be silly. The world is safer than ever.

[EVT1]

The nuclear cat is out of the bag.  Nothing is going to stop countries from the technology.

Why would the MAD theory not work on Iran?  Seems to be working on North Korea.

And really what gives the USA or any other country the right to dictate what technology another country is allowed to have?  So far the only country that has used nuclear weapons is us.  Kind of hard to take the moral high ground when we incinerated 2 cities.

[Tennesseer]

Doomsday Clock Timeline -Detail Year-Over-Year




Boom!

[Value Buy]

Mar 4, 2015 21:47:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Doomsday Clock Timeline -Detail Year-Over-Year




Boom!

Don't worry.
It will be updated very soon thanks to the President.

[EVT1]

[Value Buy]

Mar 4, 2015 21:37:24 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

The nuclear cat is out of the bag.  Nothing is going to stop countries from the technology.

Why would the MAD theory not work on Iran?  Seems to be working on North Korea.

And really what gives the USA or any other country the right to dictate what technology another country is allowed to have?  So far the only country that has used nuclear weapons is us.  Kind of hard to take the moral high ground when we incinerated 2 cities.

Moral high ground.....God, you got us there don't cha.....Good one.
Maybe the moral is it's wrong, and we know it now. 
With great power comes great responsibility.
Right now, no country can believe they are on higher moral ground with having nuclear weapons. 

With this line of reason let's agree two wrongs still do not make it right.
These countries are all powder kegs waiting for the beginning of the End of Times.
Let them have nuclear weapons and you moved it up a few centuries.

[deziloooooo]

Mar 4, 2015 21:37:24 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

The nuclear cat is out of the bag.  Nothing is going to stop countries from the technology.

Why would the MAD theory not work on Iran?  Seems to be working on North Korea.

And really what gives the USA or any other country the right to dictate what technology another country is allowed to have?  So far the only country that has used nuclear weapons is us.  Kind of hard to take the moral high ground when we incinerated 2 cities.

It's nice having all the answers to the questions that people like to talk about...but when it comes to History and the doings during certain periods..unless one has been there or close to it or had people close that were involved , it usually is hard to get ones ideas correct.

In short..those two events were at the time  that the conflict was getting to the ending ..yet the losing side , those in power and directing that side, were not admitting the grand experiment was gone, lost, not going to happen , they had taken a gamble and paid with the lives and property of their people and country yet were not willing to admit the end was here.

Actually, for what ever reason, as was shown on all the Islands that the fighting was being waged as the US forces were moving toward Japan itself , the enemy for the most part were fighting to the last person, last shot...and in so doing so, USA military were also being maimed and killed...War was lost but still they fought on...Bravery??  Bush*t...stupidity...AND they were arming the civiliens..woman, children..old people with anything available to meet the invaders on the beaches..Bamboo spears and such...

It had been a particulerly brutal war..both the European side as well as the Asiatic side..and here because of how the enemy fought, it had become very very personal...Great slaughter of civiliens just because , not for any military reasons...Nanking, China..Manilla devestated ...Phillipines over a million slaughtered in the last days before American forces were victoriouse...and now US forces were facing the fact that a invasion of the home islands was going to have to be done to finish this thing...estimated 250 thousand American dead..who knows the maimed and wounded plus the Japanese casualties..possible more civiliens then military..possible4 a million or more plus bombings of cities still being burnt out..


Most important...my Uncle Joe..{ Joe Bor } having just finished fighting in the Phillipines US Army was now undergoing training for that invasion...My dad , serving as a Tank commander with Pattons' third , having survived the war, now relaxing  in some part of Checkoslavakia  was notified to start shaping up..War while over in Europe but there was a good chance many of Pattons' people were going to be needed for the attack on Japans mainland...

So two bombs were dropped...not sure they even knew what was going to happen on the first one..War was over..Uncle Joe came home, lived a wonderful life..worked Post Office, old school, never took day off..retired to Florida with my Aunt and my Mom too ..{Dad was gone by then..} all had a great life..and my Dad also came home, rarely talked about the war except when it was my turn to go and then gave me advice.."Don't volunteer for anything..just do your job...but no volunteering."..{served me well too }

So as far as "when we incinerated 2 cities."..If that is what it took to have those two gents come home safely...I'll take it....They felt the same way by the way...

[Tennesseer]

Mar 4, 2015 22:05:21 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Mar 4, 2015 21:47:43 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Doomsday Clock Timeline -Detail Year-Over-Year




Boom!

Don't worry.
It will be updated very soon thanks to the President.

Indiana is the nuclear bullseye.

[Value Buy]

Mar 4, 2015 22:20:35 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Mar 4, 2015 22:05:21 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Don't worry.
It will be updated very soon thanks to the President.

Indiana is the nuclear bullseye.

Tennessee is the bullseye for nuclear disaster waiting to happen here in the states.

[EVT1]

I guess it depends on how you look at it- but the war was lost for Japan- no reason we had to go into the mainland at all.  And actually I think we did more damage during the bombing raids than we did with the nukes- but that is not the point.  I am sure I do not know the details on why we felt nuclear weapons were the answer but slaughtering civilians is never a good idea IMO.

I mentioned on another thread how you could not have more dedicated soldiers than they did- hell didn't that one guy just die last year than never surrendered and lived on some island?

[EVT1]

Mar 4, 2015 22:24:23 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Mar 4, 2015 22:20:35 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Indiana is the nuclear bullseye.

Tennessee is the bullseye for nuclear disaster waiting to happen here in the states.

Where and why?

[Value Buy]

Mar 4, 2015 22:32:13 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Mar 4, 2015 22:24:23 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Tennessee is the bullseye for nuclear disaster waiting to happen here in the states.

Where and why?

Tennessee is well know in world of nuclear power.
Both sides of it.

But let's not change the subject of this thread.

[Tennesseer]

Mar 4, 2015 22:24:23 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Mar 4, 2015 22:20:35 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Indiana is the nuclear bullseye.

Tennessee is the bullseye for nuclear disaster waiting to happen here in the states.

LOL. How original of you.