When in history, where on the planet...

[Deleted]

... Have people ever been 'more free' than they are here and now? 

[Tiny]

Guess it depends on how you define 'free' - and who qualifies as/is included in the "people".

[Deleted]

People is an intentionally general term. I'm not talking just white, land owning males of a specific lineage.

Free should be pretty easy to define? 

[sesfw]

I think it depends on where the location is. There are some areas of the world that is very active in the slave trade. These same areas consider females as property.

But yes, for the most part we in the 'western world' have the freedom to pursue our chosen lifestyle.

[Deleted]

Yes, I could have been more clear on here. We aren't all in US. but I think most of us are western first world...

[MarleyKeezy78]

I bet the tribes in Africa are pretty free, they don't have the government taxing the hell out of them and no use for money. It may be rough, but they only have to deal with what's going on right there, right now. I'd say that would be pretty freeing. I don't know for sure though.

[Deleted]

You mean where children are kidnapped and forced to be soldiers and women are gang raped with no recourse and undergo female circumcision? Where there is little water and the highest child mortality rates... 

[Deleted]

I'm currently arguing on facebook with someone who insists we are less free because, sure women are no longer property and rape and domestic abuse are recognized and we aren't institutionalized, and steralized, and lobotomized for 'hysteria' any more... Etc. But hey, teenagers still need to go to school if their parents make them, even if they'd don't want too... So we are much less free... 

[cronewitch]

Cave men/women were free. they didn't have any governments or armies and could go where ever they could go and eat whatever they could find with no money. Of course it was better if you were big and strong and healthy. People died really young but no laws or welfare or old age pensions with rules to follow, they didn't even have to go to school or pay mortgages or rent.

I am willing to be less free to have laws, governments and welfare taking care of anyone who needs it without survival of the fittest. I am willing to have a mortgage, health insurance and pay taxes even if it makes me less free.

Freedom means also being free to fail, homeless, bankrupt because you are free to quit jobs and take chances like starting businesses some make it and some don't. When we help the least of us it takes some of our freedom and I am ok with that.

[Deleted]

They were free as long as their stronger neighbors with bigger sticks didn't enslave them or bump them off I guess  

[Deleted]

I really need to get off facebook before I start saying things like her kids should have the freedom to be free of her some day if they want to be... Think maybe I'll go to bed.

[MarleyKeezy78]

Mar 1, 2015 2:01:31 GMT -5 oped said:

You mean where children are kidnapped and forced to be soldiers and women are gang raped with no recourse and undergo female circumcision? Where there is little water and the highest child mortality rates... 

I'm sure somewhere there are people who are deep enough in the rough of it that this doesn't happen, no need to be a Debbie Downer   No where is perfect in this world. 

How about Mick Dodge then? Roaming the northwest woods and living off the land. I know I don't feel free so...   

[Deleted]

So what time period and what place do you want to go to feel free? 

[MarleyKeezy78]

Hmmm, honestly not sure. I suppose if I had really good survival skills I would live in a remote town in Alaska (this time period), I think a person could do well there to be free. We are never truly really free because there is always a goal to work towards unless you win a huge lottery and you have enough money to feel free enough to not care. I think that is as close as you could get. I wish we lived in a world where we didn't need money and could trade sevices instead, we don't need to place value on little pieces of paper or plastic. 

[Deleted]

"We" are an average. People are individuals.  I think many in the United States enslvave themselves to debt.  I think up to a point I have, though I am working on my freedom.  Doesn't that sentence sound pretentious? ;-)  I don't think freedom is that important if measured by averages, it is the individual's freedom that matters.

[Deleted]

The random individuals.

[ArchietheDragon]

Adam and Eve were more free but then Eve had to screw it up.

[Deleted]

Mar 1, 2015 10:17:50 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Adam and Eve were more free but then Eve had to screw it up.

Adam was free then God made Eve. 

[billisonboard]

 Looking back and longing for

The freedom of my chains 

[Deleted]

 US imprisons more blacks then South African apartheid did.

[Deleted]

I agree it is a continuum. And we are unlikely to achieve a totally free society. It will always be a constant rebalancing act, hopefully continuing the trajectory forward overall. 

Still, not slaves, not relegated to certain positions on the bus or separate schools, not subject to forced sterilization or lynched... Still work to do, but when was it better? 

[Tiny]

Just some brainstorming:

I get stuck on the 'duality' of life - it's all about choices and choices mean giving something up. You can't be in two places or have everything. That's why I'd shy away from saying anyone is truly 'free' which implies no consequences to their actions (at least to me).

Or you could think about it in terms of one's obligations and duties. Human society thrives on those... it's what makes things work. AS long as you have obligations and duties - you aren't 'free'.

A single person alone in the world could be said to be the 'free-est' - they can opt to have NO externally defined obligations or duties. They just need to feed, shelter, and entertain themselves - no other obligations or duties.



This is why I really like Loki (from the Avengers)... I think his character is a very cleverly created "bad guy" for the writers to work with.  He's just takes things to an extreme...  people like to be told what to do - it's a freedom of sorts

[billisonboard]

[Deleted]

When Westerners were first settling North America they were free. I don't want to go back to that time though because they were also vulnerable to the elements and only ate what they could personally find, hunt or grow.

I like my quality of living but I'm not sure I think of myself as free. There are thousands of laws I have to live by or the powers that be can fine me, take my property or jail me. The trade off is that they can also do that to you and overall you not being allowed to do those things makes my life more pleasant. Of course typing that I think of some notable exceptions like corporations raiding pension plans, wall street stealing everyone's money etc etc.

[Deleted]

Don't you live by those rules so that other people can't enslave you, take your property and money or life? ... Without those rules would you be free from whoever was biggest and strongest ...

[Deleted]

The body that makes those rules is biggest and strongest right now. You can tell who "they" are by who the rules favour.

[Deleted]

So you are oppressed under government? Would anarchy be better? More free?

[NastyWoman]

Mar 1, 2015 10:39:14 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Mar 1, 2015 10:17:50 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Adam and Eve were more free but then Eve had to screw it up.

Adam was free then God made Eve. 

Since we are talking about the here and now, what is more American than apple pie? And then there is the mystery of the ages: how did the follower (the one who bit into the apple after being seduced) come to usurp the role of leader? 

[Deleted]

Didn't Rome have slavery?

Why didn't it last?

[NoNamePerson]

Mar 1, 2015 10:17:50 GMT -5 ArchietheDragon said:

Adam and Eve were more free but then Eve had to screw it up.

EVE was FRAMED