Keeping up appearances at work

[Sam_2.0]

DH has a job where appearances are very important. He needs to get a new car in the next year or so because the one he drives currently is way too old (2007). It was mentioned that he needed to upgrade it soon. The advisors are encouraged to buy big houses and have SAH wives - the pressure of keeping things up on one salary is supposed to make them work harder.

But like Milee mentioned, the ones that make money can get away with certain things. Like the guy that brings in $500k/yr and drives the 2004 Avalon. He plans to drive it until it dies (maybe he's a closet YMer!). Who knows if they mention the car to him but so far he's not done anything about it. Another big producer has a wife that is a pharmacist for a big hospital in town - not sure if they constantly pressure him to "let" her quit and SAH but I know DH has heard it about me.

[ArchietheDragon]

Feb 25, 2015 13:42:01 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

DH has a job where appearances are very important. He needs to get a new car in the next year or so because the one he drives currently is way too old (2007). It was mentioned that he needed to upgrade it soon. The advisors are encouraged to buy big houses and have SAH wives - the pressure of keeping things up on one salary is supposed to make them work harder.

But like Milee mentioned, the ones that make money can get away with certain things. Like the guy that brings in $500k/yr and drives the 2004 Avalon. He plans to drive it until it dies (maybe he's a closet YMer!). Who knows if they mention the car to him but so far he's not done anything about it. Another big producer has a wife that is a pharmacist for a big hospital in town - not sure if they constantly pressure him to "let" her quit and SAH but I know DH has heard it about me.

that's fucked up. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Don't think your vehicle wasn't checked out while you were interviewing

I've never parked for a job interview where they can see my car from the door, usually visitors parking is quite a ways away from where I am actually interviewing.  So the only way they know what I am driving is to follow me or somehow monitor me via camera.

And if that's the case that's really creepy and I am not sure I want to work for a company like that.

[kittensaver]

Waaaaay back in the day, I interviewed (for an HR job) with a private financial firm that negotiated and managed non-qualified compensation plans for large organizations. Turns out many of their clientele were university athletic departments and their coaching staff(s). They were engaged in, um, creative (but legal) deferred compensation plans as a method for getting around the various salary caps imposed by conferences and the NCAA.

Their offices were located on the second floor of a very old and famously restored historic preservation building in the downtown area. Everything was fitted with wood paneling, mother of pearl inlays, brass rails, old-growth wood conference tables, etc - totally top drawer stuff. I was informed during the interview that men were required to wear suits with white shirts and "subtle" ties every day, and women were required to wear suits or dresses with a sweater or jacket (and hose and heels). Eating was not permitted anywhere except the (tiny, without at table) kitchen (offices and the conference room were off limits too); if you carried a coffee cup around the office, you were REQUIRED to put a lid on it (so you didn't spill on the antique rugs); you were forbidden from having ANY personal effects in your office - I was informed that gym bags under desks were a particularly egregious violation; fresh flowers were brought into the public areas every Monday morning; they had two full-time "house staff" - women who wore black and white maid's uniforms (including the little pleated headpieces) and who polished the brass railings when they had nothing else to do. Yeppers, all true.

I didn't take the job. It was way to oppressive for me. So yeah, there are some pretty interesting ways employers structure things - informally, but the pressure is there - to "keep up appearances" at work.

[mmhmm]

Feb 25, 2015 12:24:29 GMT -5 finnime said:

All depends on the position. Even at Big Eight/Six/Four firms, the cleaning staff doesn't need to be concerned with the appearances thing. This thread makes me remember my father, a hospital administrator who was rather determinedly against this sort of thing:

he bought a '67 Mustang, rag top, which he used up out of sheer joy. The floor rusted out- you could see the road going past beneath your feet in the back seat - and the vinyl back window tore, which he repaired with duct tape. He drove it everywhere, including to the nearby very large city for conferences, wearing a Scandinavian style winter hat. My mother despaired.

LOL! Your dad sounds like a guy I would have loved to know! 

[Bob Ross]

Feb 25, 2015 13:11:02 GMT -5 yogiii said:

Accounting firms

True, although most if not all have their management and technical consulting divisions as well.

The number keeps getting reduced as they merge with each other, or get their charters revoked due to scandalous activties like Arthur Andersen and the whole Enron crisis.

I think it's presently down to The Big 4.

[Bob Ross]

Feb 25, 2015 13:45:57 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

Waaaaay back in the day, I interviewed (for an HR job) with a private financial firm that negotiated and managed non-qualified compensation plans for large organizations. Turns out many of their clientele were university athletic departments and their coaching staff(s).

If you had said that everyone there was required to wear coach shorts, I would have said that it sounds like the awesomest job, ever.

[MJ2.0]

if you were a stock broker in the 80s, were you required to get wasted and do lots of coke with escorts?

[ArchietheDragon]

Feb 25, 2015 14:01:05 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

if you were a stock broker in the 80s, were you required to get wasted and do lots of coke with escorts?

Required?  No.  But it was a great perk. 

[MJ2.0]

I think we should start a spin-off thread of "keeping up appearances" requirements making fun of certain jobs/industries.

[MJ2.0]

to be a good IT professional you must:

always pretend to be busier than you actually are

be able to talk over the heads of the people you are supporting/helping, treat all non-IT professionals like idiots, or generally have no people skills whatsoever

be able to engage in a conversation about LOTR or D & D with fellow colleagues

[haapai]

I've been really surprised by how mild the responses to this thread have been.  I was expecting a much longer list of much more bothersome unreimbursed work-related expenses. 

Quite frankly, I suspect that we're not being entirely candid.  I have a fairly vivid memory of L'Eggs displays in every gas station mini-mart that was big enough to have an ATM and I do remember wriggling into hose in some pretty groddy rest rooms.  The dress code required of females may have changed in the last 25 years but if we could once be compelled to do that, we're probably still being asked to do some pretty silly things in order to make nice at work. 

ETA: Even minimum-wage retail jobs ask you about your transportation and the correct answer is "I have a car".  The job may only be for 16 hours a week but you won't be hired if you tell them that you live a 15-minute walk from work. 

[Miss Tequila]

Feb 25, 2015 11:04:12 GMT -5 The Captain said:

Wayyyyy back in the day when I worked for the Big 6 there were rules I think/hope we'd laugh at today, milee will probably remember these...

1.  The car thing was for real and yes it had to do with appearances with taking clients out.  I think this is still a thing?
2.  Females were told to wear skirts and heels when going out to client locations (unless it was a manufacturing location).  Needless to say I volunteered for as many of the mfg clients as I could.
3.  We were absolutely forbidden to eat lunch as our desks.
4.  Yes, we had to put in so much volunteer time.  To give the firm credit, however, they put X# of hours in your vacation bank to compensate for it or allowed you to do volunteer work at company sponsored events (like Habitat for Humanity).
5.  When going to a client site for the first time you ALWAYs brought donuts or bagels.  Yes, I was told this was a rule.
6.  Interns were made to be abused.  They should be honored to get your coffee, make copies, and do your lunch runs while at client locations.  (Only slightly kidding here - yes they got good experience but as the low man on the totem pole they did all the scut work).  I have to note I have NEVER made one of my interns go get my/our lunch since I've been in charge.
7.  Partners = Gods.  They can do whatever the hell they want, where they want (like smoking in their office even after the clean air act was passed).  Calling them out on it could have a negative impact on your assignments.

I'm sure there were more but I've thankfully forgotten them.

I'm told public accounting is a bit different/better these days.  I sure as heck hope so.

Yep...I spent 17 years in public and it is amazing how different things were by the time I left.

When I started, women were not allowed to wear pants or flats. I was fine with it as that is how I dressed but I felt bad for the butch lesbian that worked there. Talk about a bull in a China shop!lol

One of my co-workers (she was a senior and I was a young staff) had a bad review because she regularly worked through lunch. In their eyes, that made her not a team playet

[Phoenix84]

Feb 25, 2015 12:05:26 GMT -5 milee said:

Feb 25, 2015 11:59:02 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

If you were driving an old beater car and we're in a sales position, I would assume you weren't very good at your job and probably wouldn't buy from you. Doesn't mean that's true, but it's the way some perceive it.

This seems to vary a little for different jobs. Old beaters probably aren't OK for any salesperson, but salespeople in different industries have to play different games.

In professional services (insurance sales to accounting to lawyers to doctors), people do tend to judge success based on having a decent car. 

In other sales positions, like ones where the price is negotiated and the salesperson gets a cut, then there's a fine line. My friend who is a successful electronic parts salesperson always drives impeccably maintained, slightly dolled up mid level American sedans that are 1-3 years old. Not Cadillac and nothing foreign.  He thinks that's the sweet spot. Won't offend anyone who is big on buying American. New enough to convey success.  Not so expensive the customer thinks they're overpaying for the product and should look for lower prices elsewhere.  Makes sense to me.

I'm so glad I don't work in sales.  I'd totally suck at it.

I have little interest in portraying "success."  But I don't drive "clients" around.

If some high ranking manager or military officer comes to visit the site, we get a government vehicle from the motorpool for the purposes of driving them around.

[Phoenix84]

Feb 25, 2015 13:42:01 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

DH has a job where appearances are very important. He needs to get a new car in the next year or so because the one he drives currently is way too old (2007). It was mentioned that he needed to upgrade it soon. The advisors are encouraged to buy big houses and have SAH wives - the pressure of keeping things up on one salary is supposed to make them work harder.

But like Milee mentioned, the ones that make money can get away with certain things. Like the guy that brings in $500k/yr and drives the 2004 Avalon. He plans to drive it until it dies (maybe he's a closet YMer!). Who knows if they mention the car to him but so far he's not done anything about it. Another big producer has a wife that is a pharmacist for a big hospital in town - not sure if they constantly pressure him to "let" her quit and SAH but I know DH has heard it about me.

Don't do it Sam! Don't let your DH's co workers pressure you into making career decisions you don't want to make! Be your own person!

[Phoenix84]

Feb 25, 2015 13:25:15 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Don't think your vehicle wasn't checked out while you were interviewing. One guy interviewed before college ended. In his college vehicle. Point blank asked about it and was offered a job, which he accepted, after he told them his Grandma would be buying him a car as a graduation present. 

I did a phone interview from across the country.

[haapai]

Feb 25, 2015 18:01:59 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

When I started, women were not allowed to wear pants or flats. I was fine with it as that is how I dressed but I felt bad for the butch lesbian that worked there. Talk about a bull in a China shop!lol

Some of us find the taconeo of a butch in heels so entrancing that we can recognize it by sound.  I always make a point of not looking up until she is really close and then flashing a dazzling smile.  It's extremely effective when you've had your back to her the whole time. 

Thank God that things change. 

[Miss Tequila]

Feb 25, 2015 18:29:32 GMT -5 haapai said:

Feb 25, 2015 18:01:59 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

When I started, women were not allowed to wear pants or flats. I was fine with it as that is how I dressed but I felt bad for the butch lesbian that worked there. Talk about a bull in a China shop!lol

Some of us find the taconeo of a butch in heels so entrancing that we can recognize it by sound.  I always make a point of not looking up until she is really close and then flashing a dazzling smile.  It's extremely effective when you've had your back to her the whole time. 

Thank God that things change. 

I just felt bad for her. She walked and looked like a man but forced to wear skirts and heels. Given how conservative my firm was I was actually surprised she was there (keep in mind, she was hired about 25 years ago before the workplace became so accepting)

Once that dress code was abolished I never saw her in anything other than pants and flats

[msventoux]

A local accounting firm that's rather small has a pretty strict dress code.  Among other things, men and women must wear blazers or cardigans at all times as appropriate when in the presence of a client, and neither is allowed to wear short-sleeved shirts.  Women are strongly encouraged to wear skirts or dresses, and are not allowed to wear open toed shoes.  It caused quite a ruckus when one of their up and coming female directors appeared in a print ad with several of the other up and coming male directors.  She was wearing a pant suit and open toed sandals.   

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

DH reports directly to the Board. He has had board members make comments about his truck (which is a 2006) and that they must not be paying him enough if that's all he can afford. His contract also requires him to belong to a civic organization, so he belongs to Rotary. 

One of the banks when we started banking there had about 15 branches and now has 375 requires volunteer work. They post it all over the teller counters. "I just voluntered at so-and-so."

[Deleted]

I think I said this on another thread but I knew the director at a previous company who hired the sales reps and they told me the first test of the interview is what kind of car the interviewee drove there.

My current company went batcrap crazy on the charity drives this year. There were so many bake sales/lunches going on they had to schedule them so as not to have more than one a day. This went on for several months. They also strongly suggested we go on a team charity walk on a Sunday, which I declined. If you want to pay me to do that stuff on the clock fine, but if it's my personal time it's not gonna happen.

[ners]

I worked at a car dealership  It was highly recommended that you drive a brand they sold. 

One of out customers was a retired GM employee.  One of his first purchases in retirement was a Lincoln Town Car. 

[MJ2.0]

Feb 26, 2015 0:06:21 GMT -5 Knee Deep in Water Chloe said:

DH reports directly to the Board. He has had board members make comments about his truck (which is a 2006) and that they must not be paying him enough if that's all he can afford. His contract also requires him to belong to a civic organization, so he belongs to Rotary. 

One of the banks when we started banking there had about 15 branches and now has 375 requires volunteer work. They post it all over the teller counters. "I just voluntered at so-and-so."

requiring someone to volunteer their time seems a tad disingenuous.

[MJ2.0]

Feb 25, 2015 22:31:34 GMT -5 msventoux said:

A local accounting firm that's rather small has a pretty strict dress code.  Among other things, men and women must wear blazers or cardigans at all times as appropriate when in the presence of a client, and neither is allowed to wear short-sleeved shirts.  Women are strongly encouraged to wear skirts or dresses, and are not allowed to wear open toed shoes.  It caused quite a ruckus when one of their up and coming female directors appeared in a print ad with several of the other up and coming male directors.  She was wearing a pant suit and open toed sandals.   

suits with open toed shoes look weird IMO.

[Sam_2.0]

Feb 25, 2015 18:26:13 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Feb 25, 2015 13:42:01 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

DH has a job where appearances are very important. He needs to get a new car in the next year or so because the one he drives currently is way too old (2007). It was mentioned that he needed to upgrade it soon. The advisors are encouraged to buy big houses and have SAH wives - the pressure of keeping things up on one salary is supposed to make them work harder.

But like Milee mentioned, the ones that make money can get away with certain things. Like the guy that brings in $500k/yr and drives the 2004 Avalon. He plans to drive it until it dies (maybe he's a closet YMer!). Who knows if they mention the car to him but so far he's not done anything about it. Another big producer has a wife that is a pharmacist for a big hospital in town - not sure if they constantly pressure him to "let" her quit and SAH but I know DH has heard it about me.

Don't do it Sam! Don't let your DH's co workers pressure you into making career decisions you don't want to make! Be your own person!

LOL, I would LOVE to SAH if we could afford it I was just thinking about this again this morning - when DH started there were 4 guys that also started at the same time & their wives all worked. They are all SAHMs now!! I am the only one still working. I keep teasing DH that the pressure is on for him to make more money now This year his take-home should match mine. That will be really nice. It's going to be hard to give that up.

[Sam_2.0]

For my company, we were actually told that we are paid good salaries compared to the average for our city (which is true), so we were expected to contribute to the United Way campaign. They know who does and who doesn't and make a big deal out if it if you don't. Since the donations can be directed I chose them to go to a charity I would have donated to anyway.

[bobosensei]

Feb 26, 2015 8:32:21 GMT -5 MJ2.0 said:

Feb 25, 2015 22:31:34 GMT -5 msventoux said:

A local accounting firm that's rather small has a pretty strict dress code.  Among other things, men and women must wear blazers or cardigans at all times as appropriate when in the presence of a client, and neither is allowed to wear short-sleeved shirts.  Women are strongly encouraged to wear skirts or dresses, and are not allowed to wear open toed shoes.  It caused quite a ruckus when one of their up and coming female directors appeared in a print ad with several of the other up and coming male directors.  She was wearing a pant suit and open toed sandals.   

suits with open toed shoes look weird IMO.

I agree.  I especially hate to see a woman in a nice business suit with a pair of super strappy sandals.  Peep toe or regular open toe don't bother me quite as much though I don't like the look, but it is really common in the summer to see a woman in nice professional clothes and then her shoes look like the ones she wore clubbing the weekend before.  I've even seen women wear those clear heeled sandals with their business suit.  Gross!

[The Captain]

Feb 25, 2015 19:41:55 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Feb 25, 2015 18:29:32 GMT -5 haapai said:

Some of us find the taconeo of a butch in heels so entrancing that we can recognize it by sound.  I always make a point of not looking up until she is really close and then flashing a dazzling smile.  It's extremely effective when you've had your back to her the whole time. 

Thank God that things change. 

I just felt bad for her. She walked and looked like a man but forced to wear skirts and heels. Given how conservative my firm was I was actually surprised she was there (keep in mind, she was hired about 25 years ago before the workplace became so accepting)

Once that dress code was abolished I never saw her in anything other than pants and flats

Are you sure we didn't work together cause except for the sexual preference thing you're describing me to a T?   Given your description I'm going to guess she was likely better at her job than most of her peers AND comfortable going to locations/serving clients some of the more "delicate" staff may not be comfortable doing. 

Most of my client base was in the south side of Chicago/suburbs.  Locals here know that's where some of the more...seedy interesting areas of town are.  It was not uncommon for me to be the only female at some locations and no, I didn't faint at the language, or get my panties in a bunch over the coarse humor. It was actually refreshing to be able to relax a bit and be my uncouth self after they got done "testing" me and I could ease up a bit. Most of my clients loved me exactly because I didn't act like a typical suit. Yea, I could switch it on and off when I went to more "polished" clients but the south side was home.

I've just realized that in the 3+ years I've been in my current position I've worn a skirt exactly once.  Don't miss it at all.

[MJ2.0]

To me a suit means business so your shoes should mean business, too. Close-toed tamely colored 0-3.5" heels look polished and fashionable with a suit.


Captain, you look like a man?

[milee]

I don't know.  While I admit I'm not a fashion maven and often wear stuff that's not what's expected, sometimes when you're wearing a conservative suit wearing fun shoes is how you can be within the confines of the norm but still be a little irreverent.

I used to wear these with one of my conservative suits. Even though they're peep toe, they're still professional IMHO.