Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 25, 2015 7:54:53 GMT -5
Over the years, I have heard from some that at certain employers demand certain actions from the personal lives of employees.
Here are a few examples to illustrate my point.
1. Requiring employees to drive certain kinds of cars. I have heard that some employers have rules about not driving motercycles or pickup trucks to work. 2. Some employers require employees to eat out for lunch. "Brown bagging" it is either against the rules or highly discouraged. 3. Some employers require employees to "volunteer" at charities in the community on their own time.
Basically, I've heard some employers require their employees to keep up certain appearances, even on their own time and with their own money. And I've also heard that sometimes the projection of "success" is a way to keep employees indebted to the company. In other words, by keeping employees in debt and on the edge, unable to really achieve financial stability, it means they need their jobs more.
However, in my own personal experience, I've never seen this. But I was wondering if you have, or anyone you know has experienced this kind of policy from employers.
What do you think about the general practice?
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Ava
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Post by Ava on Feb 25, 2015 8:03:33 GMT -5
My employer pushes really hard to volunteer in certain "approved" charities and to donate to United Way.
I wouldn't buy a certain car or use my personal time out of work hours for the sake of any employer. I resist pressure very well. If I couldn't put up with it, I would look for alternative work.
I would be particularly resistant to any kind of pressure to spend my own time and/or money to please an employer. I think the majority of workers just ignore that. That's what I've seen.
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michelyn8
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Post by michelyn8 on Feb 25, 2015 8:05:55 GMT -5
I've never seen this but then I'm the kind of person who wouldn't accept those kinds of dictates from an employer without adequate compensation. And since I'm not that much of a lemming (and I'm sure that trait shows when I interview), such an employer probably wouldn't have hired me to begin with.
ETA: I would have no issue with the charity work if it was something I could participate in as a representative of the company with my co-workers. However, I'm not for an employer telling me that I have to do such and such for this or that charity on my own personal time and expecting me to make that a priority over my family.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 25, 2015 8:06:43 GMT -5
1. Requiring employees to drive certain kinds of cars. I have heard that some employers have rules about not driving motercycles or pickup trucks to work. 2. Some employers require employees to eat out for lunch. "Brown bagging" it is either against the rules or highly discouraged. 3. Some employers require employees to "volunteer" at charities in the community on their own time.
All three of those were either formal or informal policies at the Big Six accounting firm where I worked. The cars and lunch thing really were tough the first few years when you weren't making huge amounts of money, but going with the company "policies" paid off quickly and well. Within 8 years after starting, my salary was over three times what it was when I started.
BTW, the vehicle thing wasn't exactly a list of prohibited vehicles, it was more of the concept of driving something relatively upscale and clean so you could take clients to lunch or other events. First year employees who were hired out of college weren't expected to buy a BMW or anything like that, but their cars were expected to be clean. Not a biggie if the car was still the old Honda you had from college since you weren't doing much client entertaining then. By the time you'd been there 2-3 years, though, at least a mid-level vehicle was expected. It wasn't so much a written rule as an expectation that people would receive informal coaching on regarding image. And since promotions were how raises were given and promotions were based on the subjective judgment of the partners, it made sense to follow the informal coaching advice.
But these weren't hard and fast rules and some things were OK. I'd always wanted a motorcycle and decided when I got a particular juicy promotion, I'd get one. I did. A Ninja. Bright green. The clients and partners loved it, especially when I'd wear the high heeled motorcycle boots with a pant suit and leave the helmet on the desk. But I only rode it to work a couple days a week and the other days, I had my Mercedes sedan. So you could break "the rules", you just had to do it with enough style that the partners appreciated your mojo instead of got annoyed with you.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Feb 25, 2015 8:16:16 GMT -5
I can understand the car thing if you deal with customers / clients. And the lunch thing - it encourages people to leave the office, maybe take a walk, and likely spend personal time with humans. Bringing lunch and eating at your desk can really leave you isolated - which has all sorts of ramifications.
I've never worked anywhere with any policies like that. I think my boss saw me as very practical and logical for driving an Accord that was a few years older. He laughed when he went through 2 or 3 accords and I still had the same one, but the mileage was so low I couldn't it. He said he was jealous that my 8 year old car had less miles on it than his 3 year old car.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Feb 25, 2015 8:16:24 GMT -5
The department store had a dress code for employees that was a bit more chi-chi than what our paychecks would support. On the other hand, they were careful not to require us to purchase their own merch and they certainly weren't requiring that it be bought in a certain quantity. I'd say, on the whole, I've seen remarkably few employers impose sumptuary codes on their employees.
What coworkers manage to impose on each other is another matter. When you're hurting for money and trying to cut back on non-essentials, the potlucks, Girls Scout cookies, endless cards, and invitations to order in get a bit frustrating. Luckily, the last recession put a big dent in that behavior, at least in my workplace.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 25, 2015 8:20:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm so glad I don't have to contribute to birthday gifts or baby showers or pot lucks at work.
Occasionally I'll donate a little to a retirement gift if it's someone I've worked with directly, and once I donated a few bucks to flowers for a co worker who's husband died, but that's about it.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Feb 25, 2015 8:24:36 GMT -5
For the feds, there aren't any rules about what car you can drive or what you do on your personal time or how you spend your lunch break. Other than following dress code, you aren't really required to spend money on appearances at work.
All charities are coordinated through the Combined Federal Campaign. Usually you'll get a e-mail and a pamphlet once a year, and they might host a barbeque to introduce you to various charities you can donate money to from your paycheck, but it's not required.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 9:24:36 GMT -5
This policy may have changed, but I had a coworker who had formerly worked at The Gap. According to her, all of your clothing must be their merchandise and major pieces must be current merchandise.
I don't think that is unusual. Didn't a sales clerk sue Ralph Lauren or someone like that because she was required to wear their brand exclusively and couldn't afford it? Most of the time the stores are fairly generous . . . the Ralph Lauren sales associate at Parisian's got to pick out 3 or 4 things every season that they shipped to her (not from the store's inventory). But 3 or 4 things is not an entire wardrobe.
Dept. stores are also big on charities that require the associates time and money but for which the store gets credit. Each department was expected to adopt a family from the store's needy family Christmas tree and buy the presents. We were told it was allowable to use our employee discount. Lol.
The dept. store were also big on dress-up days, some of which required you to buy clothing you might not already have. They'd decide everyone would wear a red shirt (heart health) or pink shirt (breast cancer awareness). Or that it would be Hawaiian day.
Macy's now has a mainly black dress code so maybe they have stopped this. It was really annoying because I was working a second job to make ends barely meet, not to constantly shop.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Feb 25, 2015 11:04:12 GMT -5
Wayyyyy back in the day when I worked for the Big 6 there were rules I think/hope we'd laugh at today, milee will probably remember these... 1. The car thing was for real and yes it had to do with appearances with taking clients out. I think this is still a thing? 2. Females were told to wear skirts and heels when going out to client locations (unless it was a manufacturing location). Needless to say I volunteered for as many of the mfg clients as I could. 3. We were absolutely forbidden to eat lunch as our desks. 4. Yes, we had to put in so much volunteer time. To give the firm credit, however, they put X# of hours in your vacation bank to compensate for it or allowed you to do volunteer work at company sponsored events (like Habitat for Humanity). 5. When going to a client site for the first time you ALWAYs brought donuts or bagels. Yes, I was told this was a rule. 6. Interns were made to be abused. They should be honored to get your coffee, make copies, and do your lunch runs while at client locations. (Only slightly kidding here - yes they got good experience but as the low man on the totem pole they did all the scut work). I have to note I have NEVER made one of my interns go get my/our lunch since I've been in charge. 7. Partners = Gods. They can do whatever the hell they want, where they want (like smoking in their office even after the clean air act was passed). Calling them out on it could have a negative impact on your assignments. I'm sure there were more but I've thankfully forgotten them. I'm told public accounting is a bit different/better these days. I sure as heck hope so.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 25, 2015 11:13:35 GMT -5
Wayyyyy back in the day when I worked for the Big 6 there were rules I think/hope we'd laugh at today, milee will probably remember these... 1. The car thing was for real and yes it had to do with appearances with taking clients out. I think this is still a thing? 2. Females were told to wear skirts and heels when going out to client locations (unless it was a manufacturing location). Needless to say I volunteered for as many of the mfg clients as I could. 3. We were absolutely forbidden to eat lunch as our desks. 4. Yes, we had to put in so much volunteer time. To give the firm credit, however, they put X# of hours in your vacation bank to compensate for it or allowed you to do volunteer work at company sponsored events (like Habitat for Humanity). 5. When going to a client site for the first time you ALWAYs brought donuts or bagels. Yes, I was told this was a rule. 6. Interns were made to be abused. They should be honored to get your coffee, make copies, and do your lunch runs while at client locations. (Only slightly kidding here - yes they got good experience but as the low man on the totem pole they did all the scut work). I have to note I have NEVER made one of my interns go get my/our lunch since I've been in charge. 7. Partners = Gods. They can do whatever the hell they want, where they want (like smoking in their office even after the clean air act was passed). Calling them out on it could have a negative impact on your assignments. I'm sure there were more but I've thankfully forgotten them. I'm told public accounting is a bit different/better these days. I sure as heck hope so. All of those things are true. Except I had a different interpretation on the intern thing. Yes, they did the scut work but mainly because they billed out at the lowest rate if we could even bill for them at all, so it made economic sense to have them do those things. I didn't think it was OK to abuse them and did my best to make sure they had a good experience because we hoped to recruit them later and even if they didn't join the firm, I wanted them to think well of us.
The women being prohibited from wearing pants (skirt suits or professional dress only) thing was a written rule when I started. Hard to believe, but true. The managing partner was very traditional. There were all sorts of weird, anachronistic rules, including that women were required to wear hose even though this was Phoenix and the temps were over 100 degrees at least half the year.
That was part of why I got the Ninja. I loved the bike and also figured it was a great excuse to start wearing pant suits. Win/win. By then I was making enough rain that they put up with it.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Feb 25, 2015 11:27:05 GMT -5
Wayyyyy back in the day when I worked for the Big 6 there were rules I think/hope we'd laugh at today, milee will probably remember these... 2. Females were told to wear skirts and heels when going out to client locations (unless it was a manufacturing location). Needless to say I volunteered for as many of the mfg clients as I could. My best friend in college was in sales. Not only did she wear heels, skirts, etc. But she was also tanned, got manicures, stayed very trim, make-up, and hair styled. As far as I know, she wasn't overtly told to look as attractive as possible to get the sales, but it was just assumed that she would. One of those rules that no one talks about but everyone knows about. I guess I'm getting old, but it wasn't THAT long ago, maybe a decade? And I'm not sure those rules ever went away..
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 25, 2015 11:40:33 GMT -5
aren't pharmaceutical sales reps supposed to be attractive or something?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Feb 25, 2015 11:48:01 GMT -5
aren't pharmaceutical sales reps supposed to be attractive or something? If they want to sell a lot. Dirty old white men seem to love to buy shit from hot, tits hanging out, young women.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 25, 2015 11:51:19 GMT -5
aren't pharmaceutical sales reps supposed to be attractive or something? If they want to sell a lot. Dirty old white men seem to love to buy shit from hot, tits hanging out, young women. Kinda like working at Hooters - instead of selling wings/beer and yourself (sort of), you're selling drugs.... and yourself (sort of).
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Feb 25, 2015 11:52:11 GMT -5
More $$ than Hooters though, I hope at least.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Feb 25, 2015 11:59:02 GMT -5
We don't have rules like that other than a dress code. But as an agent, we do try to keep up appearances a bit. If you were driving an old beater car and we're in a sales position, I would assume you weren't very good at your job and probably wouldn't buy from you. Doesn't mean that's true, but it's the way some perceive it.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 25, 2015 12:02:36 GMT -5
My SIL works for an auto company in Detroit and is required to buy a new car every year. (She gets it at cost and trades in the old one or something, so theoretically it doesn't cost her *that* much)
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 25, 2015 12:05:26 GMT -5
If you were driving an old beater car and we're in a sales position, I would assume you weren't very good at your job and probably wouldn't buy from you. Doesn't mean that's true, but it's the way some perceive it. This seems to vary a little for different jobs. Old beaters probably aren't OK for any salesperson, but salespeople in different industries have to play different games.
In professional services (insurance sales to accounting to lawyers to doctors), people do tend to judge success based on having a decent car.
In other sales positions, like ones where the price is negotiated and the salesperson gets a cut, then there's a fine line. My friend who is a successful electronic parts salesperson always drives impeccably maintained, slightly dolled up mid level American sedans that are 1-3 years old. Not Cadillac and nothing foreign. He thinks that's the sweet spot. Won't offend anyone who is big on buying American. New enough to convey success. Not so expensive the customer thinks they're overpaying for the product and should look for lower prices elsewhere. Makes sense to me.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Feb 25, 2015 12:10:08 GMT -5
Wayyyyy back in the day when I worked for the Big 6 there were rules I think/hope we'd laugh at today, milee will probably remember these... 1. The car thing was for real and yes it had to do with appearances with taking clients out. I think this is still a thing? 2. Females were told to wear skirts and heels when going out to client locations (unless it was a manufacturing location). Needless to say I volunteered for as many of the mfg clients as I could. 3. We were absolutely forbidden to eat lunch as our desks. 4. Yes, we had to put in so much volunteer time. To give the firm credit, however, they put X# of hours in your vacation bank to compensate for it or allowed you to do volunteer work at company sponsored events (like Habitat for Humanity). 5. When going to a client site for the first time you ALWAYs brought donuts or bagels. Yes, I was told this was a rule. 6. Interns were made to be abused. They should be honored to get your coffee, make copies, and do your lunch runs while at client locations. (Only slightly kidding here - yes they got good experience but as the low man on the totem pole they did all the scut work). I have to note I have NEVER made one of my interns go get my/our lunch since I've been in charge. 7. Partners = Gods. They can do whatever the hell they want, where they want (like smoking in their office even after the clean air act was passed). Calling them out on it could have a negative impact on your assignments. I'm sure there were more but I've thankfully forgotten them. I'm told public accounting is a bit different/better these days. I sure as heck hope so. Our CPA firm still has those rules regarding clients- unless the client requests otherwise. When my boss left and I took over, the first thing I did was tell them to drop the suits and leave the donuts at the shop. One of them used to schedule her visits around this little known- in the middle of nowhere- mennonite bakery- that she had to pass by to get to our place. They are only open two days a week and make the most fabulous cinnamon rolls. So she was always allowed to bring those.
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PK Bucko
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Post by PK Bucko on Feb 25, 2015 12:10:58 GMT -5
If you were driving an old beater car and we're in a sales position, I would assume you weren't very good at your job and probably wouldn't buy from you. Doesn't mean that's true, but it's the way some perceive it. This seems to vary a little for different jobs. Old beaters probably aren't OK for any salesperson, but salespeople in different industries have to play different games.
In professional services (insurance sales to accounting to lawyers to doctors), people do tend to judge success based on having a decent car.
In other sales positions, like ones where the price is negotiated and the salesperson gets a cut, then there's a fine line. My friend who is a successful electronic parts salesperson always drives impeccably maintained, slightly dolled up mid level American sedans that are 1-3 years old. Not Cadillac and nothing foreign. He thinks that's the sweet spot. Won't offend anyone who is big on buying American. New enough to convey success. Not so expensive the customer thinks they're overpaying for the product and should look for lower prices elsewhere. Makes sense to me.
It's very subjective to the field you're in. I've never felt pressured to trade up in the vehicle department, but I knew that it had to be decent enough to take clients out too. And my business can be varied as to who I have with me. I could be talking to suits or guys on the line getting filthy for their job. Mostly it's somewhere in between.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on Feb 25, 2015 12:24:29 GMT -5
All depends on the position. Even at Big Eight/Six/Four firms, the cleaning staff doesn't need to be concerned with the appearances thing. This thread makes me remember my father, a hospital administrator who was rather determinedly against this sort of thing:
he bought a '67 Mustang, rag top, which he used up out of sheer joy. The floor rusted out- you could see the road going past beneath your feet in the back seat - and the vinyl back window tore, which he repaired with duct tape. He drove it everywhere, including to the nearby very large city for conferences, wearing a Scandinavian style winter hat. My mother despaired.
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Bob Ross
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Post by Bob Ross on Feb 25, 2015 12:35:41 GMT -5
All three of those were either formal or informal policies at the Big Six accounting firm where I worked. The cars and lunch thing really were tough the first few years when you weren't making huge amounts of money, but going with the company "policies" paid off quickly and well. Within 8 years after starting, my salary was over three times what it was when I started.
BTW, the vehicle thing wasn't exactly a list of prohibited vehicles, it was more of the concept of driving something relatively upscale and clean so you could take clients to lunch or other events. First year employees who were hired out of college weren't expected to buy a BMW or anything like that, but their cars were expected to be clean. Not a biggie if the car was still the old Honda you had from college since you weren't doing much client entertaining then. By the time you'd been there 2-3 years, though, at least a mid-level vehicle was expected. It wasn't so much a written rule as an expectation that people would receive informal coaching on regarding image. And since promotions were how raises were given and promotions were based on the subjective judgment of the partners, it made sense to follow the informal coaching advice.
But these weren't hard and fast rules and some things were OK. I'd always wanted a motorcycle and decided when I got a particular juicy promotion, I'd get one. I did. A Ninja. Bright green. The clients and partners loved it, especially when I'd wear the high heeled motorcycle boots with a pant suit and leave the helmet on the desk. But I only rode it to work a couple days a week and the other days, I had my Mercedes sedan. So you could break "the rules", you just had to do it with enough style that the partners appreciated your mojo instead of got annoyed with you.
My first job out of college was for a Big Six firm, on the consulting side. You really should replace that title with "corporate cult", because that's what they all are, and you know it. I've never seen a group of plastic people trying to mindlessly conform to bullshit corporate "ideals" anywhere close to the extent that I did there. Once, my department (a few hundred people) had a rah-rah "team building" pseudo-social event at a local Dave & Busters. Even though it was open bar, not one single person ended up getting one single drink, because they were all afraid of what would happen if a higher-up saw them partaking in an adult beverage. Oh, the horror. Anyways, I never encountered the vehicle or lunch policies like you did, because I lasted all of 9 months there until I could take it no more, gave them the proverbial finger and walked out the door. With what you can guess about my personality based on how I behave on here, I'm sure you can understand.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Feb 25, 2015 12:56:21 GMT -5
aren't pharmaceutical sales reps supposed to be attractive or something? I think those rules have been relaxed somewhat. For airline stewardesses too. What is this world coming too :-(. I have a friend who will only fly IcelandAir
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 25, 2015 13:04:47 GMT -5
I'm marrièd to a guy who worked for the Big Eight. I also dated plenty of them at that time when there was. The cars had to be clean and in decent shape, even for the grunts. But no grunts were told to get coffee or donuts. Of course no woman was ever going to be made a partner there, either, if they even managed to get their foot in the door.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Feb 25, 2015 13:11:02 GMT -5
Accounting firms
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 25, 2015 13:16:48 GMT -5
If someone wants to tell me what kind of car I should drive, then they can buy it for me.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Feb 25, 2015 13:25:15 GMT -5
Don't think your vehicle wasn't checked out while you were interviewing. One guy interviewed before college ended. In his college vehicle. Point blank asked about it and was offered a job, which he accepted, after he told them his Grandma would be buying him a car as a graduation present.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Feb 25, 2015 13:38:03 GMT -5
Meh. People need to stop letting employers control every aspect of their lives. Sorry, you have to set up boundaries. No, I will not be on call 24/7 and available by cell phone, etc unless you are actually going to pay me for my time. The time to set up clear boundaries is when you accept a job.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 25, 2015 13:40:47 GMT -5
I think you posted that to the wrong thread, Shooby.
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