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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 10:03:52 GMT -5
A friend of mine has incurable cancer and had to sell her medical practice. She's in her 40's. DS' dentist has been on leave for several months for an unspecified health problem. She's in her 40's. DS' allergist died after a long illness in his 40's. My cousin's partner is a nurse and has been on disability for six months now. He's in his 50's and hurt himself on the job. It's not clear if he's going back to work. An acquaintance of mine had seizures at work and was diagnosed with brain cancer. Luckily she was able to go back to work after a couple of months and surgery because her husband is a SAHD and they have three young kids. My friend's DH is his 40's. He's a trucker, hurt himself, and was on light duty for few months. When he went back on full duty he was let go. I don't think his union will be able to help him. DH has an auto-immune disorder. About half of people with it eventually need a kidney transplant. In the meantime he'll be on and off some medications with unhappy side effects. Our house cleaner's DH was tentatively diagnosed with something similar but faster moving this weekend after a trip to the ER. He's 38. I think if you get diagnosed with something serious it's nice to have the option to retire or to not work for several months. www.disabilitycanhappen.org/chances_disability/disability_stats.aspI'm sorry. not working for several months - which is what disability and FMLA are for - is different than not being able to work ever again or being fired from your job because you're now 50
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 10:05:33 GMT -5
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 26, 2015 10:11:05 GMT -5
A friend of mine has incurable cancer and had to sell her medical practice. She's in her 40's. DS' dentist has been on leave for several months for an unspecified health problem. She's in her 40's. DS' allergist died after a long illness in his 40's. My cousin's partner is a nurse and has been on disability for six months now. He's in his 50's and hurt himself on the job. It's not clear if he's going back to work. An acquaintance of mine had seizures at work and was diagnosed with brain cancer. Luckily she was able to go back to work after a couple of months and surgery because her husband is a SAHD and they have three young kids. My friend's DH is his 40's. He's a trucker, hurt himself, and was on light duty for few months. When he went back on full duty he was let go. I don't think his union will be able to help him. DH has an auto-immune disorder. About half of people with it eventually need a kidney transplant. In the meantime he'll be on and off some medications with unhappy side effects. Our house cleaner's DH was tentatively diagnosed with something similar but faster moving this weekend after a trip to the ER. He's 38. I think if you get diagnosed with something serious it's nice to have the option to retire or to not work for several months. www.disabilitycanhappen.org/chances_disability/disability_stats.aspI'm sorry. not working for several months - which is what disability and FMLA are for - is different than not being able to work ever again or being fired from your job because you're now 50 So what's wrong with planning for it? It's a hell of a lot better to prepare for an involuntary retirement at 50 than to assume you'll be able to work until 65 and then be SOL when something happens, right? I'm pretty sure none of those who are posting in this thread about early retirement have any problem meeting their daily wants/needs despite a high savings rate. Most of DH's family and a lot of mine are in blue-collar, highly physical professions (loggers, construction workers, HVAC installers, etc.) Although some have been able to move into more of a managerial role as they've gotten older, not all have. I wouldn't want to spend my 50s and 60s (and beyond) taking prescription painkillers just to be able to get out of bed every morning because I couldn't afford to not go to work...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 10:19:46 GMT -5
not working for several months - which is what disability and FMLA are for - is different than not being able to work ever again or being fired from your job because you're now 50 So what's wrong with planning for it? It's a hell of a lot better to prepare for an involuntary retirement at 50 than to assume you'll be able to work until 65 and then be SOL when something happens, right? I'm pretty sure none of those who are posting in this thread about early retirement have any problem meeting their daily wants/needs despite a high savings rate. Most of DH's family and a lot of mine are in blue-collar, highly physical professions (loggers, construction workers, HVAC installers, etc.) Although some have been able to move into more of a managerial role as they've gotten older, not all have. I wouldn't want to spend my 50s and 60s (and beyond) taking prescription painkillers just to be able to get out of bed every morning because I couldn't afford to not go to work... that's fine but I can't imagine being able to retire at 50 unless you had kids fairly young or you rarely spend money. In my peer group, most still have high schoolers when they'er 50 so there's still college to pay for. Having enough to live on plus enough for kids costs, including college, is not something I can even fathom. and yes, if you're in a physically demanding job chances are you can't work it until you're 70 but again, 99% of the people I know have white collar jobs that are not at all physically demanding. and like I said when I posted about MMM (the latest thread I read there was about how to get your FSA money using fraud, but I digress) I have no desire to use a lot of the 'frugal' tips so that I can retire a year or 2 earlier. I also have no desire to tell my kids at 18 'you're on your own'. everyone else's mileage may vary.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 10:22:35 GMT -5
the post I responded to said you should plan to not have a job after 50 BECAUSE of your age.....which is completely different than disability (temporary or permanent).
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 26, 2015 10:23:09 GMT -5
A friend of mine has incurable cancer and had to sell her medical practice. She's in her 40's. DS' dentist has been on leave for several months for an unspecified health problem. She's in her 40's. DS' allergist died after a long illness in his 40's. My cousin's partner is a nurse and has been on disability for six months now. He's in his 50's and hurt himself on the job. It's not clear if he's going back to work. An acquaintance of mine had seizures at work and was diagnosed with brain cancer. Luckily she was able to go back to work after a couple of months and surgery because her husband is a SAHD and they have three young kids. My friend's DH is his 40's. He's a trucker, hurt himself, and was on light duty for few months. When he went back on full duty he was let go. I don't think his union will be able to help him. DH has an auto-immune disorder. About half of people with it eventually need a kidney transplant. In the meantime he'll be on and off some medications with unhappy side effects. Our house cleaner's DH was tentatively diagnosed with something similar but faster moving this weekend after a trip to the ER. He's 38. I think if you get diagnosed with something serious it's nice to have the option to retire or to not work for several months. www.disabilitycanhappen.org/chances_disability/disability_stats.aspI'm sorry. not working for several months - which is what disability and FMLA are for - is different than not being able to work ever again or being fired from your job because you're now 50 It is EXACTLY the same thing if you are 50. Do you have any idea how hard it is to try to start over at 50, especially after having one successful career that you can no longer do? Right now, I am seriously starting to understand why people give up. BTW.....FMLA lasts 12 weeks. When you time out, you have to make the hard decision as to whether you are going to try for a leave of absence without pay and hope you still have a position (and your problem resolves in another month or so), or start applying for LTD at 6 months. Once you do that, your position is lost.....even if you can be back in a year. Also BTW, FMLA is not paid unless you have sick or vacation time. I had 400+ hours of sick time, another 280ish of vacation. That was 16 weeks, ~ 2 months short of applying or LTD. fortunately, I had $$ to cover those 2 months, but getting disability is not always a slam dunk. For me, my problem was so acute that I had a relatively easy time of applying as I only had to deal with 4 months of medical records in 2 locations. If a chronic problem goes through o more acute, you have to chronicle years of doctors, tests and hospitalizations. I oso received it in a phenomenally short period of time, I had the ok for both SSDI and my employers LTD in ~6 weeks. That is NOT the norm.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 10:26:11 GMT -5
not working for several months - which is what disability and FMLA are for - is different than not being able to work ever again or being fired from your job because you're now 50 It is EXACTLY the same thing if you are 50. Do you have any idea how hard it is to try to start over at 50, especially after having one successful career that you can no longer do? Right now, I am seriously starting to understand why people give up. BTW.....FMLA lasts 12 weeks. When you time out, you have to make the hard decision as to whether you are going to try for a leave of absence without pay and hope you still have a position (and your problem resolves in another month or so), or start applying for LTD at 6 months. Once you do that, your position is lost.....even if you can be back in a year. Also BTW, FMLA is not paid unless you have sick or vacation time. I had 400+ hours of sick time, another 280ish of vacation. That was 16 weeks, ~ 2 months short of applying or LTD. fortunately, I had $$ to cover those 2 months, but getting disability is not always a slam dunk. For me, my problem was so acute that I had a relatively easy time of applying as I only had to deal with 4 months of medical records in 2 locations. If a chronic problem goes through o more acute, you have to chronicle years of doctors, tests and hospitalizations. I oso received it in a phenomenally short period of time, I had the ok for both SSDI and my employers LTD in ~6 weeks. That is NOT the norm. my STD kicks in on day 8 and covers a year and since I used it when I was out for 2 weeks with a back issue, I don't think it would be difficult to get in a situation such as yours.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 26, 2015 10:28:04 GMT -5
Right now, I am seriously starting to understand why people give up.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Feb 26, 2015 10:28:20 GMT -5
He said: "I think everyone should plan to lose their job at 50. If you don't, GREAT! But if you do, you're not totally hosed."
I agree with this. You might not be able to save enough to retire (or lose your job) on your 50th birthday, but even having 75% of your "needed" amount gives you a lot more options. And if you can keep working, then should be totally set to retire whenever you want.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 10:31:06 GMT -5
I would love the option to quit at 50. Work would be so much enjoyable if I knew I could walk away at any time and be fine. I hate the stress of knowing I need to bring in an income for the next 15-20 years.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 26, 2015 10:34:53 GMT -5
I know dozens of people at my company who have had cancer, strokes, injuries and so on in their late 40's or 50's and either died or never returned. In addition to my co-workers, I have some friends whose husbands had strokes in their 50's. These were people who never planned on retiring but had to. There are people in their late 60's who report to me, they are doing okay, but they work from home. Now that my department must return to an office, they are getting medical exemptions to continue to work from home and be okay. If they were not able to obtain the medical exemption, I suspect they would retire or performance would suffer such that they'd be laid off. Of course, I also know plenty of people still working business as usual in their 50's and 60's and I know plenty who planned all along to retire by that point.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 26, 2015 10:39:59 GMT -5
the post I responded to said you should plan to not have a job after 50 BECAUSE of your age.....which is completely different than disability (temporary or permanent). This is not unreasonable. Age discrimination is live and well in the US. Another thing to consider, when I went out on disability, I was at my highest earning time and was expected to go ~20% higher. My field does not have people making $100k at the beginning, and if you are good.....top out around $80k max. Needing to step out at this point point was horribly expensive, despite the fact tat my employer continued to contribute their portion to my 403b, I was restricted to what could be put in an IRA......which is <50% of what I was contributing. Also......you go out on medical disability, you have THOSE expenses to cover too on 60-70% of your income. For me, that was a $6000/year expense. After 2 years, Medicare takes over (if you have done COBRA to pay for your employers health insurance), so now you get to jump through those hoops. I'm paying more or less insurance now. And finally, not all LTD is the same. some policies will cover only if you cannot do your job, but the vast majority are only if you can do ANY job, regardless of education and experience. So I can no longer do my non sedentary job where I was ABD for my doctorate, but I can sit on my ass and answer phones for 30% of what I previously made.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 26, 2015 10:42:21 GMT -5
that's fine but I can't imagine being able to retire at 50 unless you had kids fairly young or you rarely spend money. In my peer group, most still have high schoolers when they'er 50 so there's still college to pay for. Having enough to live on plus enough for kids costs, including college, is not something I can even fathom. and yes, if you're in a physically demanding job chances are you can't work it until you're 70 but again, 99% of the people I know have white collar jobs that are not at all physically demanding. and like I said when I posted about MMM (the latest thread I read there was about how to get your FSA money using fraud, but I digress) I have no desire to use a lot of the 'frugal' tips so that I can retire a year or 2 earlier. I also have no desire to tell my kids at 18 'you're on your own'. everyone else's mileage may vary. Ok, well that's what this thread it about. Because I had kids late, I spend lots of money, and I plan on paying for my kid's education. This is my specific situation I'm asking about and no one else's.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 26, 2015 10:43:28 GMT -5
It is EXACTLY the same thing if you are 50. Do you have any idea how hard it is to try to start over at 50, especially after having one successful career that you can no longer do? Right now, I am seriously starting to understand why people give up. BTW.....FMLA lasts 12 weeks. When you time out, you have to make the hard decision as to whether you are going to try for a leave of absence without pay and hope you still have a position (and your problem resolves in another month or so), or start applying for LTD at 6 months. Once you do that, your position is lost.....even if you can be back in a year. Also BTW, FMLA is not paid unless you have sick or vacation time. I had 400+ hours of sick time, another 280ish of vacation. That was 16 weeks, ~ 2 months short of applying or LTD. fortunately, I had $$ to cover those 2 months, but getting disability is not always a slam dunk. For me, my problem was so acute that I had a relatively easy time of applying as I only had to deal with 4 months of medical records in 2 locations. If a chronic problem goes through o more acute, you have to chronicle years of doctors, tests and hospitalizations. I oso received it in a phenomenally short period of time, I had the ok for both SSDI and my employers LTD in ~6 weeks. That is NOT the norm. my STD kicks in on day 8 and covers a year and since I used it when I was out for 2 weeks with a back issue, I don't think it would be difficult to get in a situation such as yours. It wasn't......BUT I WAS NOT THE NORM. I went from working in a lab to being in a wheelchair and needing help to toilet and pull up my underwear in a week. Most do not go like this.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 26, 2015 10:50:10 GMT -5
I work in cancer therapy. I watch people's lives get destroyed every day, young and old.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 26, 2015 10:55:21 GMT -5
I should be able to retire at 50 (if I ever find another job in the first place). LCOL! I'm really undecided about paying for college at this point, as that would add and extra 10 years to my work life. If I find a great job that doesn't stress me out, I could do it. However, if I get back in a situation like I had previously, or worse, I think it would shorten my life-span. (The stress makes me not take care of myself like I should--eating/exercise/checkups.) Then there's wanting a nicer house, newer cars, vacations... I'm saving so I have the OPTION though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 10:58:16 GMT -5
Right now, I am seriously starting to understand why people give up.
have you considered looking in other areas of the country?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Feb 26, 2015 11:15:34 GMT -5
Right now, I am seriously starting to understand why people give up.
have you considered looking in other areas of the country? HUH? I can no longer do the job I worked in for 30+ years. I am retraining into another field where I can use my technical knowledge. However, going back to school and competing with 20 year olds at 54 is NOT easy. I'm doing it, but it is both physically hard for me with my disability and mentally hard to change tracks so thoroughly. BTW.....because I AM disabled, I am pretty much limited to living where I have help.....which is in the town I'm living in. I know I can easily get a job in Seattle, I've already had offers. However, I cannot physically handle the city lifestyle (my walking is extremely limited) and even if I could, it could put me back in a wheelchair permanently.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 11:19:46 GMT -5
have you considered looking in other areas of the country? HUH? I can no longer do the job I worked in for 30+ years. I am retraining into another field where I can use my technical knowledge. However, going back to school and competing with 20 year olds at 54 is NOT easy. I'm doing it, but it is both physically hard for me with my disability and mentally hard to change tracks so thoroughly. BTW.....because I AM disabled, I am pretty much limited to living where I have help.....which is in the town I'm living in. I know I can easily get a job in Seattle, I've already had offers. However, I cannot physically handle the city lifestyle (my walking is extremely limited) and even if I could, it could put me back in a wheelchair permanently. I was replying to Drama regarding her search for a job.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 26, 2015 11:25:23 GMT -5
I was replying to Drama regarding her search for a job
No I have not. DH is pretty resistant to moving and divorcing him over it seems counterintuitive.
I wouldn't be moving for the type of job I do right now regardless. Academia is in a pickle across the country and the last thing I want is to move only to have the same thing happen a year from now. Too many people are competing for the few slots still available.
There is plenty private industry wise here, several major corporations are based here. I'm also looking into going back to school for various professional certifications so I can work in the medical field/clinical research where there are a lot more opportunities available.
If all those latter options dry up around here then I am in trouble.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 11:40:26 GMT -5
I was replying to Drama regarding her search for a job
No I have not. DH is pretty resistant to moving and divorcing him over it seems counterintuitive.
I wouldn't be moving for the type of job I do right now regardless. Academia is in a pickle across the country and the last thing I want is to move only to have the same thing happen a year from now. Too many people are competing for the few slots still available.
There is plenty private industry wise here, several major corporations are based here. I'm also looking into going back to school for various professional certifications so I can work in the medical field/clinical research where there are a lot more opportunities available.
If all those latter options dry up around here then I am in trouble.
I wasn't thinking about academia....I was thinking more along the lines of FDA, USDA, NIH, etc.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Feb 26, 2015 12:11:36 GMT -5
I've seen workers actually cause involuntary retirement due to their own behavior. I'm an engineer, in about 1992 (I was 53) the company (an SP500 co) put PC's on all desks in the engineering dept. (Before that we went to the computer room and waited for time on a computer).
Several engineers, my age and older, wouldn't accept PCs, shoved them aside, refused to use them. Most of us welcomed them, asked 'young' engineers how to turn them on (literally) and 'adapt, improvise, overcome' - and a year or so later we were doing all of our design proposals online, learned to type, used PP in our presentations, etc. That 'skill/behavior gap' was a basis for the involuntary retirement lists. Many of the over-50s allowed themselves to become obsolete. It also was a major time of automation, major productivity growth. Typists were no longer needed, no more secretarial pools. And entire bull-pens of drafting tables/designers were replaced by 3 or 4 designers with CAD work stations.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 26, 2015 12:28:19 GMT -5
so I should prepare to be unemployed in 3 months? why? in 3 months I expect to have more work than I can handle and be getting a nice raise (if the past 5 years are any indication). Yes. IN MY OPINION However, like I said, it's all gravy if you don't get forced out at 50, but a good idea to be prepared so that you'd be OK if you were and you are GREAT if you don't. I'm firing myself in 5 years?
Sweet!!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 16:34:18 GMT -5
Honey, I know this is not what you asked, but could you either take a sabbatical year, or work PT for a year or two when your husband retires, because of the age difference? Or, could one or both of you get a temporary posting abroad at some point, to be able to travel more in another part of the world?
I know your DH is in great shape, but even if you retire at 50, he'll be 69. It might be nice to be able to do certain things you want to do (in terms of travel) before then.
Can you trade off part of future salary increases for increased vacation time?
ETA: I do realize these suggestions may be totally unfeasible, I don't know enough about how things work there.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 22:36:27 GMT -5
Health problems can be a real wild card factor. Let me tell you this is HUGE, HUGE, HUGE and unfortunately can happen at any age. I'm pretty sure that at some point I will have my 1st job loss and it will be due to health issues. It may end up meaning a very early retirement as many companies probably won't hire me with the limitations that are becoming a reality in my life.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 6:22:14 GMT -5
again, the poster I was replying to did not say anything about health problems. their stance was that once you turn 50 your employer is most likely going to fire you just because of your age. so who on here has been forced out of their job for the sole reason of their age?
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Feb 27, 2015 7:54:48 GMT -5
Yes. IN MY OPINION However, like I said, it's all gravy if you don't get forced out at 50, but a good idea to be prepared so that you'd be OK if you were and you are GREAT if you don't. I'm firing myself in 5 years?
Sweet!!!
Yes, because you're going to be running for office again. For a judgeship I hope. (waddles off to find cigar.....all campaign managers smoke cigars..)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 8:10:55 GMT -5
So who on here has been forced out of their job for the sole reason of their age? No employer will ever tell you you're being fired due to your age. It's a good way to get sued.
As Phil pointed out, some pretty much fire themselves by being unwilling to adapt to new ways of doing things. Some also have a bad attitude about taking orders from a "youngster". You're also vulnerable just because you're earning more money. Unless you continually upgrade your skills, eventually you'll be working alongside someone with 10 or 15 fewer years of experience who's making a lot less and they'll decide it's not cost-effective to keep you on.
But yes, there are stereotypes and they may just decide they need "new blood". It's pretty easy to give someone the "Suddenly Stupid" treatment. After years of good reviews, suddenly every mistake you make (and I'm talking about a number and severity of errors comparable to your coworkers) is a sign how incompetent you are. You're given impossible objectives. They have expectations of you that are unspoken till you fail to meet them. When you try to get another job, your age can be calculated accurately 99% of the time by assuming that you were 22 when you got your Bachelor's degree. You may never know how often your resume got ignored just because you got out of college in 1975. I might have been able to get another job- I have a great network- but we would probably have had to relocate. I'm glad I was able to retire.
In my case, I'm still not sure what caused the nasty politics that led me to leave at age 61, but I do know that another woman has a lawsuit pending against my company for age and sex discrimination and she tells me there are others. It happens.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 8:28:54 GMT -5
again, the poster I was replying to did not say anything about health problems. their stance was that once you turn 50 your employer is most likely going to fire you just because of your age. so who on here has been forced out of their job for the sole reason of their age? I think it's more about the fact that if you do lose your job for any reason after 50 getting something else might be difficult. Plus they don't SAY they're letting you go because you're older. We've had several RIFs here in the past few years. Most recent was a couple months ago. After the low hanging fruit trouble makers the next group that seems to get hit the hardest are the older employees that have been here forever (and are probably making the most). We let go two senior engineers at the last layoff, the reason being to cut expenses for a slow year. Yet we just hired a new engineer last week. She's maybe 30.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 9:06:21 GMT -5
again, the poster I was replying to did not say anything about health problems. their stance was that once you turn 50 your employer is most likely going to fire you just because of your age. so who on here has been forced out of their job for the sole reason of their age? I think it's more about the fact that if you do lose your job for any reason after 50 getting something else might be difficult. Plus they don't SAY they're letting you go because you're older. We've had several RIFs here in the past few years. Most recent was a couple months ago. After the low hanging fruit trouble makers the next group that seems to get hit the hardest are the older employees that have been here forever (and are probably making the most). We let go two senior engineers at the last layoff, the reason being to cut expenses for a slow year. Yet we just hired a new engineer last week. She's maybe 30. and nobody has sued over that? that would not work here....you can't RIF positions and then hire new people into that same position.
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