HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 25, 2015 11:07:02 GMT -5
This is a good point. I know you're very highly compensated, but I'm not sure how quickly you become "outdated" once you've been out of the FT workforce for a few years... but would it be possible to retire or go PT in your mid 40s and then go back to work in your late 50s? Maybe work during DD's college years and then retire for good? Or is that even something you'd want to do? I could do contract or locum work part time. That would require a lot of travel usually, so not good if DD is still home. Honestly, if I have enough money, which I think I will, then no. I'm happy being done. Now, if I'm a widow and I have no one to travel with or be with; my answer might change.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 25, 2015 11:07:35 GMT -5
If you retire the year you turn 55 I understand you can withdraw from your 401k without penalty. Ah good to know. Thanks!
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 25, 2015 11:08:50 GMT -5
HoneyBBQBased on your post there is an appreciable age difference between you and your SO. When you retire (if as planned) you will be 54 and your SO will be 73. Understand this is TOTALLY not judging in any way but you need to plan for and take into consideration those differences. What are yours, his, and your(s) (both of you together) mutual hopes for retirement? There is a lot you can do in your 50's and 60's that's a lot more difficult logistically in your 70's. What do you envision retirement looking like for yourself, and you as a couple. The same needs to be understood from him. I guess financially it may not be possible (especially with a kid to support - I get it) for you to retire even earlier so you two can do some things together (I'm being honest here) before he starts to be limited in some of his abilities. I've seen it with some couples I know. By the time the younger is able to retire the older one can't do the things they always wanted to do (hike the Grand Canyon, go on a biking tour of Paris, you get the idea). Not to say retirement can't be wonderful without physically demanding activities, but it's something to give some consideration to.
If you don't already do this I suggest doing DH and I outings and Honey BBQ and girlfriend outings. Statistically you are likely to outlive your DH by about 20 years. You will need to build some strong friendship bonds. Also and not to be mean, you will resent spending most of your retirement dealing with his health issues if you don't build in a "fun" break for yourself.
Definitely. Thanks. I know it's not the ideal situation. It is what it is. I do <3 my girlfriends and I think I have healthy hobbies and relationships outside of my spouse.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 25, 2015 11:12:08 GMT -5
HoneyBBQ,
Would you stay in the same area?
In our (useless) drill looking at houses for my MIL, I'm not sure that the main goal of downsizing is to save money. In our little SF Bay Area town we could downsize from our $1.1M 2500 sq.ft. house on 1/2 acre view lot to a $800k 1500 sq.ft. 5000 sq.ft. view lot. Since sales costs will likely exceed $100k that will give us less than $200k or less than 20% savings.
I've told DH we should seriously consider installing an elevator rather than moving because it might be cheaper!
Prop 60 or 90 allows us a one time transfer of our current property tax basis to a replacement home worth the same or less in the same (or participating) counties. Does the greater Seattle area do the same? I'd like to stay in the Pacific NW, yes. But staying within 5 miles of downtown Seattle; there's absolutely no need. I don't need the short commute, the tiny yard, the traffic, and the 5 figure annual real estate tax bill. No thanks! And our house is way too big. I don't want to manage all that when I have better things to do. We could probably buy a 3 bedroom with an ocean view and some land 30-45 minutes north for less than 500k. That's only a bit more than my equity in the house I have now. So in 15 years, I could sell, pay cash for the new place, and pocket half a mil ++. Pretty good incentive to me.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Feb 25, 2015 11:13:17 GMT -5
If you apply the Rule of 72 for 15 years, 5%/yr investing will double your $2M to $4M. If you use 11%/yr investing, it will double more than twice, ie about $9M in 15 yrs. You might want to split it 50/50, ie 50% in 11%/yr & 50% in 5%/yr, that gets you 8%/yr. So it doubles every 9 years. (Triples in 15 yrs). You might want to invest that cash/CD/equity, get that $600K+ working for you? When we retired we were surprised at how much less our costs were - no more $36,000/yr to 401k's, no $17,000/yr to SS/Med, maybe $5K or $10k less to the IRS - and we cancelled the Life Ins, those things count up more than we were expecting. Your costs will prolly go down by $60k/yr w/o any change to lifestyle. That is $4million, plus the $1.5million that will contribute in the next 15 years. That will conservatively be worth $6.5 million in 15 years or $4million today, which at a 4% withdrawal rate is $160,000 per year in today's dollars. Seems doable.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 25, 2015 11:18:32 GMT -5
That is $4million, plus the $1.5million that will contribute in the next 15 years. That will conservatively be worth $6.5 million in 15 years or $4million today, which at a 4% withdrawal rate is $160,000 per year in today's dollars. Seems doable. Yeah, that's close to the firecalc math I've been doing. I don't think my question is 'do I have enough money', I think it's mostly clear that the answer is yes. I'm mostly looking for ideas about things I haven't thought of or situations I haven't considered... Costs I've overlooked.. I dunno. Whatever I'm missing.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Feb 25, 2015 11:20:03 GMT -5
Cap gains are taxed at 75%, Roths are taxed, 401ks are taxed at 90%. Those things will screw you up!
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 25, 2015 11:24:04 GMT -5
Cap gains are taxed at 75%, Roths are taxed, 401ks are taxed at 90%. Those things will screw you up! I haven't even pretended to grasp tax law at this point. I figure the tax code will definitely not be the same in 15 years, so I'm not spending *too* much effort learning about it now. But knowing there are variations depending on what you withdraw from... that is good to know.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Feb 25, 2015 11:27:26 GMT -5
I know I'll probably be ok even with tons of uncertainties but unless I'm about 5 mins from croaking and still have 5 mil in the bank, I don't think I'll ever feel that big sigh of relief like "whoo, I made it, I'm set".
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Feb 25, 2015 11:31:59 GMT -5
That is $4million, plus the $1.5million that will contribute in the next 15 years. That will conservatively be worth $6.5 million in 15 years or $4million today, which at a 4% withdrawal rate is $160,000 per year in today's dollars. Seems doable. Yeah, that's close to the firecalc math I've been doing. I don't think my question is 'do I have enough money', I think it's mostly clear that the answer is yes. I'm mostly looking for ideas about things I haven't thought of or situations I haven't considered... Costs I've overlooked.. I dunno. Whatever I'm missing. Lots of money covers lots of sins.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 25, 2015 11:35:43 GMT -5
No truer words ever spoken!!
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 25, 2015 11:57:31 GMT -5
That is $4million, plus the $1.5million that will contribute in the next 15 years. That will conservatively be worth $6.5 million in 15 years or $4million today, which at a 4% withdrawal rate is $160,000 per year in today's dollars. Seems doable. Yeah, that's close to the firecalc math I've been doing. I don't think my question is 'do I have enough money', I think it's mostly clear that the answer is yes. I'm mostly looking for ideas about things I haven't thought of or situations I haven't considered... Costs I've overlooked.. I dunno. Whatever I'm missing. I know you mentioned that you don't like MMM, but the people on the forum over there live for this stuff (and they're not as extreme on the frugality for the most part <except for a few, as singlemom pointed out a few weeks ago>). They can probably give you pointers on how to structure your savings/investments so as to avoid penalties/extra taxes.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 25, 2015 12:00:09 GMT -5
Yeah, that's close to the firecalc math I've been doing. I don't think my question is 'do I have enough money', I think it's mostly clear that the answer is yes. I'm mostly looking for ideas about things I haven't thought of or situations I haven't considered... Costs I've overlooked.. I dunno. Whatever I'm missing. I know you mentioned that you don't like MMM, but the people on the forum over there live for this stuff (and they're not as extreme on the frugality for the most part). They can probably give you pointers on how to structure your savings/investments so as to avoid penalties/extra taxes. Maybe I haven't given them a fair shake. I don't like MMM's blogs or him (I guess) and the forums I've looked at are about rinsing plastic baggies and reusing toilet paper and stuff. People that spend money like I do don't seem to fit in... but maybe I just haven't looked enough or spent enough time there. I probably need to go over to Bogleheads more, as they are very good at tax angles, too.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Feb 25, 2015 12:47:37 GMT -5
I think 900 sq feet might be too small for me. But other than that, yes, definitely brain twins. Maybe we should get a duplex with an ocean view and a 4 acre lot together?
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 25, 2015 12:49:33 GMT -5
I know you mentioned that you don't like MMM, but the people on the forum over there live for this stuff (and they're not as extreme on the frugality for the most part). They can probably give you pointers on how to structure your savings/investments so as to avoid penalties/extra taxes. Maybe I haven't given them a fair shake. I don't like MMM's blogs or him (I guess) and the forums I've looked at are about rinsing plastic baggies and reusing toilet paper and stuff. People that spend money like I do don't seem to fit in... but maybe I just haven't looked enough or spent enough time there. I probably need to go over to Bogleheads more, as they are very good at tax angles, too. Just ignore the baggie rinsers. (Reusing toilet stuff? ) Bogleheads probably is a great resource, but I'm also intimidated by them. The MMM forum seems more approachable to me, as long as you ignore the extreme people. I was actually kind of surprised that I didn't get any crap there about paying to get my bathroom remodeled instead of trying to DIY.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Feb 25, 2015 12:55:27 GMT -5
alwaysbeoptimizing,
As you say it doesn't scale linearly. DH started running into problems as he was approaching 50, especially since the company had been bought by an out of country buyer. He was pretty remarkable being a non-government IT professional who was with the company or its affiliate for 25 years.
I had a hard time adjusting to the unstructured nature and my financial status of my "semi-retired" state when I quit my job at age 40 to follow DH's career to AZ and then Germany. I won't say that I set out to create a job when we started acquiring properties; I was up front when DH was courting me. I told him no diamonds or furs I wanted real estate!
But I think DH was unprepared for how much time it takes to manage them. I really think he must have thought it was like the late night commercials where you just sit back and collect the checks. I don't mind; frankly there's some excitement in meeting new prospective tenants and a challenge in how to do certain repairs. I think I'm kind of a weirdo who actually likes to work.
Anyway, what my seem to be an O-T remark is that I've experienced some joy in being a lot more mindful about our consumption. Whereas in the past we might have just thrown money at a problem we are spending more time asking ourselves "Do we care? Do we really need to do this? With the luxury of some time we can ask if there might be another way of solving a problem."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 13:00:09 GMT -5
Will I have enough for retirement is the one thing I can't quite get my arms around either. If only someone could tell me how long DW and I will live, if/when I get laid off again, and what the market will do. With those variables being so tough to peg I default to save a lot, and probably a lot more than I will need to.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Feb 25, 2015 13:02:34 GMT -5
LOL, I AM a baggie rinser but it's been for reasons other than directly economic. I hate to throw away something that still fairly useful which will contribute to our already full landfills. Also when we moved to Germany I couldn't find the heavier duty zip-lock bags; just those thin easy to tear ultra cheap bags. Luckily we had a pretty big cache when we moved to Germany and through my careful management didn't have to buy any bags until the end of last year.
I am pretty picky though. No re-use of meat or anything with fats or other material that can't be easily rinsed. No way am I spending a $1.00 of soap and water to save a $.05 bag!
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skubikky
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Post by skubikky on Feb 25, 2015 13:44:50 GMT -5
I know you mentioned that you don't like MMM, but the people on the forum over there live for this stuff (and they're not as extreme on the frugality for the most part). They can probably give you pointers on how to structure your savings/investments so as to avoid penalties/extra taxes. Maybe I haven't given them a fair shake. I don't like MMM's blogs or him (I guess) and the forums I've looked at are about rinsing plastic baggies and reusing toilet paper and stuff. People that spend money like I do don't seem to fit in... but maybe I just haven't looked enough or spent enough time there. 1. You definitely haven't read enough of the MMM forum then, because that is definitely not a good sampling of the members or what they discuss. You could submit a Case Study in the "Ask a Mustachian" forum. You'll get lots of good feedback. As I said before, there are a good number of members who have already retired or are almost there. Many with young kids(many with more than 1 kid) and with less than $1M. Yes, everyone's situation is different but hey.....you just might learn something. Many get so stuck in a mind set that it's hard to see that there might be another way to do things to reach the same goal. 2. The other ER website that I noted includes more members with >$2MM net worth and with the higher monthly burn rates which might be more in line with your lifestyle.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Feb 25, 2015 14:04:12 GMT -5
DH just received a bonus that's about 2 weeks worth of pay. My retirement date is edging to the left
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Feb 25, 2015 15:23:38 GMT -5
Some of you know, I'm aiming for retiring at 54 or so when DD is 18. I'm 38. Spouse is 57. So I've got 15 years. I wanted to ask y'all because you're nice and smart and I don't like Mr MM. I'm too scared to ask Bogleheads, lol. And y'all don't hate on me too much.... Might retire earlier if possible/desired. Spouse most likely will work the whole time, too. Maybe we will retire after 10 more years. We shall see. So obviously he'll take late SS withdraw and delay as much as possible. What else should we be thinking about? Or doing? Specifically (I guess) for me, since my aspects are more complicated? I guess I'm looking for things I haven't considered or possibilities I've overlooked. Other relevant data and or musings: - We both make good salaries. Plan to have our stupid ridiculously expensive house paid off. Probably will sell and downsize when DD is gone. Or maybe when she is done with college? TBD. - not legally married but have legal domestic partnership. Can marry if we need to. Really haven't seen a reason. I don't think I will need to draw his SS since I'll have enough money and 30 years of making 6+ figures and contributions to SS. - currently stashing extra money in taxable/money market funds so that I can access that since I won't be able to draw on 401k at retirement age. (after normal retirement/HSA/deferred compensation plans) - hoping health care is still available through the state at that point? Otherwise, can contract independently I suppose. Spouse will be medicare eligible. - spouse has significant life insurance now and I have about 2x what he has. Will probably have to drop his when he is retired. As long as DD is >18 I will probably drop my life insurance, too. - Will probably set up a trust when DD is over 18. Have complicated issues regarding step children but don't really want to get into that too much. Will probably leave them a fixed amount and the rest to DD. - Current NW around 2MM. Around a third is in cash/CDs/house equity. 1/3 his retirement, 1/3 her retirement. What am I missing? Do I have a good grasp on what's necessary? I feel like For a long while I was in building mode but now I feel more like I have the right trajectory but want to make sure I'm on target. Congratulations, it looks like you will be able to achieve your plans of retiring at 54! My only comment is that it might be worth talking with an estate planning attorney about the merits of spending some time with a Justice of the Peace. Being married would give you access to his SS benefits while allowing you to delay using your benefits. Being able to generate a 65% increase the value of an annuity that includes a cost of living adjustment (your SS) goes a long, long way toward funding your retirements. The second arguement in favor of marriage is that there are usually advatages to being married when it comes to estate taxes on your spouse's estate. It looks like you'd both be under the federal limits, but some states have, or have had, limits as low as $100K.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 15:51:42 GMT -5
alwaysbeoptimizing,
As you say it doesn't scale linearly. DH started running into problems as he was approaching 50, especially since the company had been bought by an out of country buyer. He was pretty remarkable being a non-government IT professional who was with the company or its affiliate for 25 years.
I had a hard time adjusting to the unstructured nature and my financial status of my "semi-retired" state when I quit my job at age 40 to follow DH's career to AZ and then Germany. I won't say that I set out to create a job when we started acquiring properties; I was up front when DH was courting me. I told him no diamonds or furs I wanted real estate!
But I think DH was unprepared for how much time it takes to manage them. I really think he must have thought it was like the late night commercials where you just sit back and collect the checks. I don't mind; frankly there's some excitement in meeting new prospective tenants and a challenge in how to do certain repairs. I think I'm kind of a weirdo who actually likes to work.
Anyway, what my seem to be an O-T remark is that I've experienced some joy in being a lot more mindful about our consumption. Whereas in the past we might have just thrown money at a problem we are spending more time asking ourselves "Do we care? Do we really need to do this? With the luxury of some time we can ask if there might be another way of solving a problem." Sorry to respond again, but also to this... I think everyone should plan to lose their job at 50. If you don't, GREAT! But if you do, you're not totally hosed. I'm in tech and so expect to have a shelf life around that age (9-10 more years). So i'm "planning" to retire in 12, but might be 7 or might be 15 depending on what the company decides and how our investments/expenses do. We're terrible right now at frugality and need to get back to it, but there's a lot of irons in the fire at the moment and there are some limited time windows to do certain things that increase our opportunities later. (ie, subdivide our property). so I should prepare to be unemployed in 3 months? why? in 3 months I expect to have more work than I can handle and be getting a nice raise (if the past 5 years are any indication).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 18:37:04 GMT -5
so I should prepare to be unemployed in 3 months? why? in 3 months I expect to have more work than I can handle and be getting a nice raise (if the past 5 years are any indication). Yes. IN MY OPINION However, like I said, it's all gravy if you don't get forced out at 50, but a good idea to be prepared so that you'd be OK if you were and you are GREAT if you don't. considering at least half my coworkers are older than me, it's not even on my radar. hell, we hire people who retire from the government after their 30 years so they're all over 50. what industry are you in that 50 is considered old?
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 25, 2015 19:27:00 GMT -5
Yes. IN MY OPINION However, like I said, it's all gravy if you don't get forced out at 50, but a good idea to be prepared so that you'd be OK if you were and you are GREAT if you don't. considering at least half my coworkers are older than me, it's not even on my radar. hell, we hire people who retire from the government after their 30 years so they're all over 50. what industry are you in that 50 is considered old? 50 is not considered "old" in my industry, but I do see a lot of people in their 50's getting laid off. I suspect it's because they are getting paid too much and not performing well enough to justify their high salaries. The last person in my company this happened to was given the choice of an administrative position or to resign. She took the 3rd option- retirement. She was 55 and definitely not old. It's good that it's not a concern at your company but I have definitely been financially planning to retire in my 50's, so that I don't have to scramble if I get my walking papers. There is an EEOC regulation for age discrimination over 40, so I'm surprised this surprises you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 20:55:31 GMT -5
You're co-workers are the ones that were able to keep working. Health problems can be a real wild card factor. health problems at 50 that cause you to have to stop working?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 20:59:24 GMT -5
considering at least half my coworkers are older than me, it's not even on my radar. hell, we hire people who retire from the government after their 30 years so they're all over 50. what industry are you in that 50 is considered old? 50 is not considered "old" in my industry, but I do see a lot of people in their 50's getting laid off. I suspect it's because they are getting paid too much and not performing well enough to justify their high salaries. The last person in my company this happened to was given the choice of an administrative position or to resign. She took the 3rd option- retirement. She was 55 and definitely not old. It's good that it's not a concern at your company but I have definitely been financially planning to retire in my 50's, so that I don't have to scramble if I get my walking papers. There is an EEOC regulation for age discrimination over 40, so I'm surprised this surprises you. yes I know EEOC age discrimination is over 40 but it isn't even a blip on the radar to me. there's no way I'll be retiring in my 50s - I'll be 50 in May and still have a kid with a year of high school left and then 4 years of college to pay for. I also have no desire to retire early. I'm trying to think of the people that I work with on a daily basis and I would bet no more than 20% are in their 20s. Of all the people are my current task, the youngest is probably 35. this is another instance where I feel like I live in an alternate universe.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Feb 25, 2015 23:19:21 GMT -5
You're co-workers are the ones that were able to keep working. Health problems can be a real wild card factor. health problems at 50 that cause you to have to stop working? Wouldn't be the first time that happens. Heart attacks, cancer, and many other diseases stick up their ugly head more frequently at that age. Just because I got lucky doesn't mean that is true for everyone. And once you're out at that age, good luck getting back in.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 3:25:13 GMT -5
health problems at 50 that cause you to have to stop working? Wouldn't be the first time that happens. Heart attacks, cancer, and many other diseases stick up their ugly head more frequently at that age. Just because I got lucky doesn't mean that is true for everyone. And once you're out at that age, good luck getting back in. DH "retired" last year at 47, multiple sclerosis. His company, he was a lowly grocery clerk, nothing to get excited about, saw him as a liability and forced him to leave sooner than planned. He was already planning to leave, just a little bit later in the year. The union was worthless in helping him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 8:45:57 GMT -5
health problems at 50 that cause you to have to stop working? Wouldn't be the first time that happens. Heart attacks, cancer, and many other diseases stick up their ugly head more frequently at that age. Just because I got lucky doesn't mean that is true for everyone. And once you're out at that age, good luck getting back in. I'm trying to think of who I 'know' that had to leave work early because of illness and can't come up with anyone.....anyone I've known of who has had cancer just takes STD and then comes back to work....there have been a few who have had heart attacks - they're back at work. the same with anyone who has any other illness/surgery. it must be something unique to the DC metro area. as I said, I'm almost 50 and retiring is not something I even think about. I'm debating starting work on my master's in the fall. I'm wondering if the attitude continues because of the people who perpetuate it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 9:46:18 GMT -5
I'm trying to think of who I 'know' that had to leave work early because of illness and can't come up with anyone.....anyone I've known of who has had cancer just takes STD and then comes back to work....there have been a few who have had heart attacks - they're back at work. the same with anyone who has any other illness/surgery. I agree; I can think of only one example in my almost-40 years of work: a woman in her late 40s who developed aggressive breast cancer, told them to do whatever it took to save her (she had a young daughter) and eventually took disability because the treatments left her with cognitive problems. There were also a few unfortunate people who were diagnosed with cancer at an advanced stage and died within a year, but no others who quit due to ill health but had a long life expectancy. There are, however, other things that can happen in your 50s: quitting to take care of a seriously ill spouse or parent, or losing a job and having a very hard time finding another. When I interviewed for my last job at age 59, I told them how happy I was that they were involved in the local corporate athletic competition because I'd been on the team at my current employer and racked up tons of points in the endurance events: the sprint triathlon, 200-meter freestyle, 5 mile bike ride. (Some of those may sound wimpy to you but try finding women in the 55-60 age group to sign up.) It was a subtle message that I was probably healthier than some of their 30-year olds. Despite that, my future boss (whom I knew from a previous job) shared with me that some people had expressed concerns that I might be looking for a place to coast till retirement. (Yeah, stupid to tell me, I know.) I got that job because the boss knew me better than that, but have no illusion that a 50-year old can find a job as easily as a 30-year old.
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