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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 12:51:23 GMT -5
The people who join their fight every single day. huh. ok. i don't see a lot of "flocking", personally. i see more people falling in line AGAINST them. the rest of the post didn't copy, so it is too much trouble to comment on it. i remember harboring similar feelings about the Contras. did you know that they used to drag babies over barbed wire in front of their mothers? Reagan compared them to Jefferson, Adams and Madison, but i am not aware of them engaging in such torture. forgive me if i lack all sense of horror at such things- but i do. ISIS and the Contras are a speck of fly crap on the ceiling of history, imo. edit: i do think that using THEIR language to describe the conflict is a fatal mistake for us. FATAL, in that it will cost the lives of many innocent Americans and Muslims to make that mistake. Obama has actually done a GREAT job of not doing that. far superior to Bush. you disagree. that's fine. have a nice day. I don't see flocking either. I see following, like I said.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 12:57:43 GMT -5
People are not "flocking" to join ISIS. Instead, the press is "flocking" to wax eloquent about those who do join (or try to join, or think about joining, or look like they might think about joining). Most people are downright disgusted by ISIS. That would include Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, and just about anybody with a modicum of decency. Don't be led down the garden path by the press' entrancement with sensationalism. I don't know who you think is being led down a garden path and I don't think that reporting on the atrocities occurring in the ME is sensationalism either. I think it's news.
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 25, 2015 13:23:00 GMT -5
Reporting the news is not sensationalism. However elements of the press do tend to sensationalize some aspects of the news for whatever reason- selling their product imo- and that is apparent with some of what goes on with ISIL.
Reporting on the horrific beheading of 20 Coptic Christians in Libya is news. Spending days on end reporting every detail and theory about 3 schoolgirls who went to Syria to "help refugees" crosses the line into pandering for a story and yes, sensationalism. Precisely. How often do you see the press report about all the people who AREN'T joining ISIS? Of course they don't! That would be ludicrous. It's just as ludicrous to go on, and on, and on about disenfranchised kids who decide they're gonna go "fight for freedom". It's sensationalism at its most disgusting.
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Post by wyouser on Feb 25, 2015 13:33:00 GMT -5
Reporting the news is not sensationalism. However elements of the press do tend to sensationalize some aspects of the news for whatever reason- selling their product imo- and that is apparent with some of what goes on with ISIL.
Reporting on the horrific beheading of 20 Coptic Christians in Libya is news. Spending days on end reporting every detail and theory about 3 schoolgirls who went to Syria to "help refugees" crosses the line into pandering for a story and yes, sensationalism. Precisely. How often do you see the press report about all the people who AREN'T joining ISIS? Of course they don't! That would be ludicrous. It's just as ludicrous to go on, and on, and on about disenfranchised kids who decide they're gonna go "fight for freedom". It's sensationalism at its most disgusting. Still, it might have been nice to have had more sensationalism concerning the rise of the Nazi's. (we didn't have 24 hr coverage then and the Nazi's were actively trying to hide what they were doing once the deportations began) It would have been far less costly if the West had stopped it 1936-1938 instead of waiting.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Feb 25, 2015 13:38:17 GMT -5
*chuckle* Godwin? Are you there, Godwin?
There is no comparison between the press and the dissemination of information today and what it was in the thirties. It's a different world.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 16:20:58 GMT -5
Reporting the news is not sensationalism. However elements of the press do tend to sensationalize some aspects of the news for whatever reason- selling their product imo- and that is apparent with some of what goes on with ISIL.
Reporting on the horrific beheading of 20 Coptic Christians in Libya is news. Spending days on end reporting every detail and theory about 3 schoolgirls who went to Syria to "help refugees" crosses the line into pandering for a story and yes, sensationalism. I agree with you about the schoolgirls but Isis itself is sensationalistic. It would be dishonest to not portray it that way when reporting about them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 16:25:14 GMT -5
*chuckle* Godwin? Are you there, Godwin? There is no comparison between the press and the dissemination of information today and what it was in the thirties. It's a different world. Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis – often referred to as "playing the Hitler card". The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering known mainstays of Nazi Germany such as genocide, eugenics, or racial superiority, nor, more debatably, to a discussion of other totalitarian regimes or ideologies[citation needed], if that was the explicit topic of conversation, because a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate, in effect committing the fallacist's fallacy.
Although falling foul of Godwin's law tends to cause the individual making the comparison to lose his argument or credibility, Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2015 18:51:18 GMT -5
This is not Islam! Were the Christians actually Christians? Or were they imposters also?
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 25, 2015 20:42:14 GMT -5
*chuckle* Godwin? Are you there, Godwin? There is no comparison between the press and the dissemination of information today and what it was in the thirties. It's a different world. Godwin's law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Nazis – often referred to as "playing the Hitler card". The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering known mainstays of Nazi Germany such as genocide, eugenics, or racial superiority, nor, more debatably, to a discussion of other totalitarian regimes or ideologies[citation needed], if that was the explicit topic of conversation, because a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate, in effect committing the fallacist's fallacy.
Although falling foul of Godwin's law tends to cause the individual making the comparison to lose his argument or credibility, Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
it is not censorship to mock and ridicule an argument, is it? if so, then virtually everyone on this board "censors".
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 25, 2015 20:43:12 GMT -5
huh. ok. i don't see a lot of "flocking", personally. i see more people falling in line AGAINST them. the rest of the post didn't copy, so it is too much trouble to comment on it. i remember harboring similar feelings about the Contras. did you know that they used to drag babies over barbed wire in front of their mothers? Reagan compared them to Jefferson, Adams and Madison, but i am not aware of them engaging in such torture. forgive me if i lack all sense of horror at such things- but i do. ISIS and the Contras are a speck of fly crap on the ceiling of history, imo. edit: i do think that using THEIR language to describe the conflict is a fatal mistake for us. FATAL, in that it will cost the lives of many innocent Americans and Muslims to make that mistake. Obama has actually done a GREAT job of not doing that. far superior to Bush. you disagree. that's fine. have a nice day. I don't see flocking either. I see following, like I said. i know you didn't say it. i couldn't find a better word. following is not that accurate, either, since it implies that they are already THERE. that wouldn't be a very big issue, if it were true.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 25, 2015 20:44:15 GMT -5
This is not Islam! Were the Christians actually Christians? Or were they imposters also? if they are pretending that they are the ONLY Christians, that no other Christians are worthy of anything more than death, and that theirs is the ONE TRUE way, then yes. they are imposters, too.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 25, 2015 20:45:42 GMT -5
Reporting the news is not sensationalism. However elements of the press do tend to sensationalize some aspects of the news for whatever reason- selling their product imo- and that is apparent with some of what goes on with ISIL.
Reporting on the horrific beheading of 20 Coptic Christians in Libya is news. Spending days on end reporting every detail and theory about 3 schoolgirls who went to Syria to "help refugees" crosses the line into pandering for a story and yes, sensationalism. I agree with you about the schoolgirls but Isis itself is sensationalistic. It would be dishonest to not portray it that way when reporting about them. good counterargument. so, because ISIS is sensationalistic, we should be? again, your implication that we should be following their lead is most disturbing to me. WE should be making the rules of engagement, not them, imo.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 25, 2015 20:48:01 GMT -5
Precisely. How often do you see the press report about all the people who AREN'T joining ISIS? Of course they don't! That would be ludicrous. It's just as ludicrous to go on, and on, and on about disenfranchised kids who decide they're gonna go "fight for freedom". It's sensationalism at its most disgusting. Still, it might have been nice to have had more sensationalism concerning the rise of the Nazi's. (we didn't have 24 hr coverage then and the Nazi's were actively trying to hide what they were doing once the deportations began) It would have been far less costly if the West had stopped it 1936-1938 instead of waiting. this argument can be used for ANY situation that you or anyone else deems "urgent". it is, in fact, the same argument that was used in 2003 to get us into Iraq. i am too jaded for that argument any more. Saddam was not a threat. ISIS isn't, either. this is not to say they should not be dealt with. they should. but dealing with it should be no harder than dealing with Ebola was.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 25, 2015 20:49:04 GMT -5
People are not "flocking" to join ISIS. Instead, the press is "flocking" to wax eloquent about those who do join (or try to join, or think about joining, or look like they might think about joining). Most people are downright disgusted by ISIS. That would include Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, and just about anybody with a modicum of decency. Don't be led down the garden path by the press' entrancement with sensationalism. I don't know who you think is being down a garden path and I don't think that reporting on the atrocities occurring in the ME is sensationalism either. I think it's news. i don't. but i don't think murder stories are news, either.
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Post by wyouser on Feb 26, 2015 13:38:46 GMT -5
It was on Feb 26, 1993 that terrorists first tried to blow up one of the Trade Towers in New York with a truck bomb. We have been dealing with this for a while, not?
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 26, 2015 13:52:48 GMT -5
It was on Feb 26, 1993 that terrorists first tried to blow up one of the Trade Towers in New York with a truck bomb. We have been dealing with this for a while, not? the problem is much older than that. but yes, that was our first DOMESTIC encounter with this particular flavor of terrorism. we got another one in 1995 that was about 100x as fatal. completely different flavor. but related, in that it also had to do with our incursions in the middle east. in fact, it is a common thread in almost every terror attack we have experienced, with the exception of the abortion clinic bombings.
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Post by wyouser on Feb 26, 2015 15:19:15 GMT -5
They prove themselves to be patient as well. Eight years later they succeeded. These ISSIS folks say they will see us in Washington or in New York etc. I see Yesterday the FBI says we have threats in all 50 states. Whether related to past excursions, current excursions or future excursions we seem to be in the cross hairs. We are , however , not alone on these folks hit lists.
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 26, 2015 15:45:37 GMT -5
They prove themselves to be patient as well. Eight years later they succeeded. These ISSIS folks say they will see us in Washington or in New York etc. I see Yesterday the FBI says we have threats in all 50 states. Whether related to past excursions, current excursions or future excursions we seem to be in the cross hairs. We are , however , not alone on these folks hit lists. it is actually more or less a culture war. they see Western Civilization as decadent. they don't want anything to do with it. and they resent the subversion of their nations, their religion, and their lands by the West. anything that represents the West is therefore a target, including their own government(s). what has changed is that it is no longer just outsider that are targets. it is their own people. they are loathsome. and i am absolutely confident they will be defeated.
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Post by b2r on Feb 26, 2015 16:29:10 GMT -5
ISIS Smash, Western Culture!
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Post by djAdvocate on Feb 26, 2015 17:31:05 GMT -5
theirs is the failure to remain objective. don't let it be yours.
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 26, 2015 17:58:53 GMT -5
ISIS Smash, Western Culture! Eastern culture. Iraq is part of west Asia.
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Post by b2r on Feb 26, 2015 21:33:11 GMT -5
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Post by Tennesseer on Feb 26, 2015 21:37:30 GMT -5
It's a shame history was not obvious to you.
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Post by EVT1 on Feb 27, 2015 1:42:49 GMT -5
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Post by Jaguar on Feb 27, 2015 1:44:49 GMT -5
Oh like cat memes now, like geez.
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Post by Teddybear8 on Feb 27, 2015 3:22:16 GMT -5
Reporting the news is not sensationalism. However elements of the press do tend to sensationalize some aspects of the news for whatever reason- selling their product imo- and that is apparent with some of what goes on with ISIL.
Reporting on the horrific beheading of 20 Coptic Christians in Libya is news. Spending days on end reporting every detail and theory about 3 schoolgirls who went to Syria to "help refugees" crosses the line into pandering for a story and yes, sensationalism. Precisely. How often do you see the press report about all the people who AREN'T joining ISIS? Of course they don't! That would be ludicrous. It's just as ludicrous to go on, and on, and on about disenfranchised kids who decide they're gonna go "fight for freedom". It's sensationalism at its most disgusting.
Yep, this. Totally agree
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