21 Egyptian Coptic Christians Murdered by ISIS

[Jaguar]

ISIS releases video claiming beheadings of Egyptian Coptic Christians
By CNN Staff
Updated 7:17 PM ET, Sun February 15, 2015

(CNN) - In a new propaganda video released Sunday by ISIS, the group claims to have beheaded over a dozen members of Egypt's Coptic Christian minority on a Libyan beach.

The video shows an apparent mass execution with jihadists in black standing behind each of the victims, who are all are dressed in orange jumpsuits with their hands cuffed behind them.

www.cnn.com/2015/02/15/middleeast/isis-video-beheadings-christians/index.html


Here's another link :

america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/2/15/isil-releases-video-purporting-to-show-beheading-of-egyptians-in-libya.html

[billisonboard]

So, another video, another thread.

The following is from the Halifax police concerning suspects in the plot to murder people in a public place:

“We do not wish to give these individuals further notoriety so will not be referring to their names again,”. ..

I think it is a great thing for the authorities to do. I support emulating it.

[deziloooooo]

Notoriety ??  So by ignoring the happenings publicly  they are going to stop , go away?  I don't think so...

The Pres has called for support and funding too for a fight against these people...It's up to Congress to either agree or back away...It does not seem that we are alone in this battle...Not only are our allies already combating them but even our not so friendly nations..Iran as a example....a big player is involved...so it is almost like a world War of allies against this organization...

Since they have declared war against us specifically why would we not respond in same..

[Jaguar]

I'm hoping everyone bands together and shows this group in no uncertain terms do not bring this shit to OUR PEOPLE ! We all must stand united against this !

[marvholly]

it appears many of the fomerly 'neutra'l nations are getting into the fight ISIL act.

Saudi Arabia joined in the bombing after their pilot was burned to death.

Now Egypt has joined into the bombing after this group murder.

Isn't it amazing what contires can & will do when they actually have skin in the game?  When it was thought to be only the US these contries maintained neutrality.

[deziloooooo]

Egypt carried out air attacks against ISIL in Libya , says they will continue..even Libyan air force joined in the attack..


www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/02/egypt-bombs-isil-targets-libya-mass-beheadings-150216063339037.html

[billisonboard]

I just don't like having my chain jerked.

[djAdvocate]

these a-holes are going to end up unifying the world in a way that the US never could.

[Jaguar]

Hezbollah chief urges Middle East to unite against ISIL

This is taken from from Al Jazeera.......

www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/02/hezbollah-hassan-nasrallah-isil-150216214845193.html

[djAdvocate]

Feb 16, 2015 22:21:07 GMT -5 Jaguar said:

Hezbollah chief urges Middle East to unite against ISIL

This is taken from from Al Jazeera.......

www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/02/hezbollah-hassan-nasrallah-isil-150216214845193.html

see what i mean?

[Jaguar]

Feb 16, 2015 22:47:39 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Feb 16, 2015 22:21:07 GMT -5 Jaguar said:

Hezbollah chief urges Middle East to unite against ISIL

This is taken from from Al Jazeera.......

www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/02/hezbollah-hassan-nasrallah-isil-150216214845193.html

see what i mean?

United we stand, divided we fall, really it ain't hard to figure it out.

[Tennesseer]

For a while anyway, the enemy of my enemy is my ally.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 17, 2015 8:04:32 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

It's a good opportunity. We don't need no stinkin' ground troops..... Let's play the old English role..... lead with the strengths that we have and let others do the rest. I think it is clear that the vast majority of Muslim peoples would want nothing to do with this bunch of pseudo- fundamentalist wackos.

I still think there is something we are missing though.  I know these acts of brutality that they so carefully choreograph and broadcast are a terrific recruitment tool for them.....  but I haven't heard of or thought of any other positive aspect of it for them.  Is there something more to it?  Maybe I am overthinking it.

To get the local populace to cower in fear and submit. And for neighboring countries' populace to take note this could be them next.

[billisonboard]

Feb 17, 2015 9:09:47 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

... To get the local populace to cower in fear and submit. And for neighboring countries' populace to take note this could be them next.

Releasing a video internationally of the beheading of a foreign aid worker seems a very inefficient way of sending a message to the locals. And what does ISIS wish for the neighbors to do once they have taken note they could be next?

I think the desire is to provoke an extreme emotional response. I support not giving them that.

[Tennesseer]

Feb 17, 2015 9:34:27 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 17, 2015 9:09:47 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

... To get the local populace to cower in fear and submit. And for neighboring countries' populace to take note this could be them next.

Releasing a video internationally of the beheading of a foreign aid worker seems a very inefficient way of sending a message to the locals. And what does ISIS wish for the neighbors to do once they have taken note they could be next?

I think the desire is to provoke an extreme emotional response. I support not giving them that.

I can get on board with that.

[workpublic]

The message is, submit to Islam/sharia law or else this is what will happen to you. Its not complicated or obtuse

[djAdvocate]

Feb 17, 2015 8:04:32 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

It's a good opportunity. We don't need no stinkin' ground troops..... Let's play the old English role..... lead with the strengths that we have and let others do the rest. I think it is clear that the vast majority of Muslim peoples would want nothing to do with this bunch of pseudo- fundamentalist wackos.

I still think there is something we are missing though.  I know these acts of brutality that they so carefully choreograph and broadcast are a terrific recruitment tool for them.....  but I haven't heard of or thought of any other positive aspect of it for them.  Is there something more to it?  Maybe I am overthinking it.

if it follows the logic of suicide terrorism, the idea is to get western democracies to leave them alone (capitulate).

it's not working.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 17, 2015 9:43:52 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

The message is, submit to Islam/sharia law or else this is what will happen to you. Its not complicated or obtuse

Or smart. We all predicted just this reaction to it.

Is it that valuable a recruitment tool to justify the huge downside?

Did they somehow underestimate the latter (too stupid)?  Or are they just such believers in their cause that they don't care?

Or?

don't fool yourself.  they are not stupid.  this sort of tactic has worked in the past.  in fact, it is the ONLY thing that has historically worked in certain parts of the world.  this is really the problem with oppressive rule, is that it fosters this sort of oppressive reaction.

edit: that having been said, ISIS is adopting a more conventional front for their grievances than other terrorist organizations.  ironically, they are making it EASIER to fight them by doing so.  that is the not so bright aspect of what they are doing.  random kooks with bombs is tactically smarter.  that is probably why they broke off from AQ: AQ totally disagrees with the direct confrontation tactic.  it is a recipe for extermination.  western nations are not afraid of armies.  we know how to win that kind of battle.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 17, 2015 11:52:37 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Feb 17, 2015 11:13:58 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

don't fool yourself.  they are not stupid.  this sort of tactic has worked in the past.  in fact, it is the ONLY thing that has historically worked in certain parts of the world.  this is really the problem with oppressive rule, is that it fosters this sort of oppressive reaction.

edit: that having been said, ISIS is adopting a more conventional front for their grievances than other terrorist organizations.  ironically, they are making it EASIER to fight them by doing so.  that is the not so bright aspect of what they are doing.  random kooks with bombs is tactically smarter.  that is probably why they broke off from AQ: AQ totally disagrees with the direct confrontation tactic.  it is a recipe for extermination.  western nations are not afraid of armies.  we know how to win that kind of battle.

I agree- they are NOT stupid.  Which is why I am having a hard time accepting that there is not some other angle that I don't yet see. 

I understand your point about historical precedents colloquially; but they do not strike me as strictly provincial either; there is an international component to them, and thus I would think, a more worldly POV.

However they may be just stubborn, ideological and hidebound enough to insist upon some of this as a necessary expression of their core beliefs.  It really astounds me.

historically, these movements have been HIGHLY provincial.  if you are convinced that this is NOT a provincial movement, i would be interested in hearing your logic.

don't mistake "global appeal" with "global aspirations".  AQ has appealed globally, but their interests primarily lie in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and a few other very small regions of the ME.  they have no interest, for example, in Indonesia, Bangladesh, or North Africa (where there are large Islamic populations).  they are really only interested in their local grievances.

i agree that ISIS is a slightly different flavor of this trend- but what makes you think they are more trans-national?

[b2r]

 The executioner speaks in English and points his knife toward the Mediterranean. “We will conquer Rome, by Allah’s permission,” he says.


time.com/3711022/isis-libya-copts/

[b2r]

[Deleted]

This is really long

www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

[billisonboard]

Feb 17, 2015 13:19:09 GMT -5 b2r said:

Feb 17, 2015 13:21:32 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

This is really long

www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Longer than 12 seconds. Too much for some.

[Deleted]

Feb 17, 2015 13:25:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 17, 2015 13:19:09 GMT -5 b2r said:

Feb 17, 2015 13:21:32 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

This is really long

www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Longer than 12 seconds. Too much for some.

Some days I only have about 12 seconds.

[billisonboard]

Feb 17, 2015 13:30:04 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Feb 17, 2015 13:25:30 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Longer than 12 seconds. Too much for some.

Some days I only have about 12 seconds.

But at least you offered something that was more than a 12 second piece of video without context.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 17, 2015 13:35:13 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Feb 17, 2015 13:30:04 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

Some days I only have about 12 seconds.

But at least you offered something that was more than a 12 second piece of video without context.

that is all it takes some people to see the worst in someone else.

[djAdvocate]

Feb 17, 2015 12:56:17 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

Perhaps I was unclear. I meant "provincial" in mental outlook, thinking and limited worldview, rather than in terms of territorial aspirations.  I don't think they are provincial in the sense of having a limited understanding of the wider world.

I would guess that they have enough people with more worldly experience to be able to understand how things will be seen abroad, and how actions and reactions could affect their cause.

In terms of their territorial aspirations, I think they have been crystal clear, and I see no reason to doubt their claims.  They seek a fundamentalist caliphate astride much of the territory of the Arabian Muslim lands, i.e., right where they are, as much as they can maximize it.  This makes their territorial objectives regional, or at least what I would describe as regional. 

ah.  provincial as in "not wordly"?  i mostly agree.  in addition, their view is skewed by their religious beliefs, which tends to make for a rather insular perspective. 

[b2r]

 Saudi Arabia court gives death penalty to man who renounced his Muslim faith

An Islamic court in Saudi Arabia has sentenced a man to death for renouncing his Muslim faith, the English-language daily Saudi Gazette reported on Tuesday.
The man, in his 20s, posted an online video ripping up a copy of Islam's holy book, the Koran, and hitting it with a shoe, the newspaper reported.
Saudi Arabia, the United States' top Arab ally and birthplace of Islam, follows the strict Wahhabi Sunni Muslim school and gives the clergy control over its justice system.
Under the Wahhabi interpretation of Sharia Islamic law, apostasy demands the death penalty, as do some other religious offences like sorcery, while blasphemy and criticism of senior Muslim clerics have incurred jail terms and corporal punishment.
Executions in Saudi Arabia are usually carried out by public beheading.


www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/11431509/Saudi-Arabia-court-gives-death-penalty-to-man-who-renounced-his-Muslim-faith.html

         This is not Islam!   

[djAdvocate]

Feb 24, 2015 15:05:34 GMT -5 b2r said:

 Saudi Arabia court gives death penalty to man who renounced his Muslim faith

An Islamic court in Saudi Arabia has sentenced a man to death for renouncing his Muslim faith, the English-language daily Saudi Gazette reported on Tuesday.
The man, in his 20s, posted an online video ripping up a copy of Islam's holy book, the Koran, and hitting it with a shoe, the newspaper reported.
Saudi Arabia, the United States' top Arab ally and birthplace of Islam, follows the strict Wahhabi Sunni Muslim school and gives the clergy control over its justice system.
Under the Wahhabi interpretation of Sharia Islamic law, apostasy demands the death penalty, as do some other religious offences like sorcery, while blasphemy and criticism of senior Muslim clerics have incurred jail terms and corporal punishment.
Executions in Saudi Arabia are usually carried out by public beheading.


www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/11431509/Saudi-Arabia-court-gives-death-penalty-to-man-who-renounced-his-Muslim-faith.html

         This is not Islam!   

last time i checked, SA is an ally.

do i like it?  no.  i don't.

[mroped]

It was pointed out that that one person in the video speaks english. That is not as uncommon as one might think.

Many ME youth are educated abroad : US and England are primary choices - Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard, Princeton, Georgetown etc. 
So as for the claim that they are "provincial" I'm not realy sold on that.
Religion has always been as an instrument to create unity or discord depending on the need.

Western powers have ocupied the ME for long time and controlled it. After the discovery of oil under the sands, local princes/kings/ tribal leaders made deals with the westerners and gave to the masess nothing.
Once in awhile a silver spoon person cares for the masess or he just wants to "put his name on the map" so to speak. Religion and extremist beliefs come in handy in such case.

Public execution of westerners could be used as propaganda in the hopes of raising recruitment but also as a statement towards westerners saying: we want you out!

It is not hard to twist the meaning of Quran just the same it isnt hard to twist the meanings of the Bible. Using it is in fact a smart move: if it works victory will be claimed in the name of Allah and those that lead the movement will be reveared almost as prophets; if it doesnt than they will be mentioned as "martyrs" in the name of Allah and again reveared.