Housing Dilemma

[tskeeter]

Feb 2, 2015 13:06:20 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

I put this post up on my blog today:


I have a housing dilemma.

We learned in January that our long term (8 years) tenant in our out of state rental property will be moving. She’s been a fabulous tenant, and we are sad to see her go. While we have no problems being landlords, we don’t honestly want to be out of state landlords to a tenant we do not know, especially now that we do not have a built in property manager in my mom (since she has also left the area). So, we are selling the condo.

We own the condo free and clear, which means we should clear $50-60k after realtor fees and taxes. We are looking at taking that money and buying a nicer home where we are. We would prefer not to have to sell the house we are living in before buying a new home. We may choose to rent out the current house, but even if we do not, it will be just that much easier to get it ready for sale and to show it if we’re not currently living in it.
Talking to our mortgage guy, we have two options. One is more complex and would leave me feeling less financially secure, but puts our buying power at $100k more than the simpler option.

We also have three goals for moving. In order of priority, they are:
1) Better schools for our daughter/future children
2) A shorter commute for me
3) A bigger/nicer house
The bigger/nicer house option is lowest on the priority list because we could take that same $50-60k, and make some major renovations to our current home.

Our ideal area has great schools and a very short commute for me. However, for the most part, it would require us to go with the more complex, less financially secure option for the mortgage. There are some houses in the area we are looking at that meet our requirements and are in the price range for the simpler mortgage, but, while they may be bigger than our current house (as in have a second bathroom), they are not nicer. (These houses also sell within a week of coming on the market. Sadly, I am not exaggerating. Average time on market in the Seattle area right now is 17 days, and this include neighborhoods like mine, where houses are sitting on the market for months.)

If we went with one of those houses- ideal neighborhood, simple mortgage price range –the plan would be to then do the basic cleanup needed on our current house, sell it, and immediately use the $30k or so we’d get from that to do renovations on the new house. That puts us with the double inconvenience of going through escrow (twice) and renovations.
That has us talking seriously about staying put and just doing the renovations needed for our house. While no renovations pay for themselves completely, some of them (like adding a 4th bedroom and 2nd bathroom) would certainly add to the value of our home.

A house I LOVE has come on the market. This house has been on and off the market since 2007, though never sold. At this point, it seems to come on the market for a few months, not sell, and then go off. I am not certain why (there have been a couple of inspections, so there might be something really wrong with it), or it might just be that the owners are not willing to lower their price.
We first saw the house as an open house, probably in 2007 or 2008, when we were first considering moving my late MIL in with us. I fell in love with the house then. And now, it is back on the market, in the simple mortgage price range. Fate?

And here is my dilemma. This house is only half a mile from our current home. Not only would our daughter not move to a better school district, she would even be on the exact same bus she takes now, just a different stop. My commute would, obviously, not improve. That means that of our 3 reasons for moving, we would only be hitting one of them.

Though it would be hitting that reason big time. The house is considerably bigger (5bd/3.5ba vs 3bd/1ba) than our current home and is much nicer. Because it is the simpler mortgage, without a need to instantly sink more money into renovations, it would make keeping our current house and turning it into a rental financially viable. And location wise, that would also be incredibly convenient, with C only being a half mile away for any property management that needed to be done.

But, and I keep coming back to this but, our daughter remains in a school that is rated a 2 (on a scale of 1-10) instead of moving to a school that’s rated an 8 or 9. Still, this would be true if we just renovated our current house.

We have an appointment to view the house later this week. Maybe we will see it now and not love it as much we did before. Maybe we will be able to find out why the sale has not gone through after a couple of inspections and realize we do not want to deal with that. Or maybe we will remain in love with the house, in love enough that we will really have to review our priorities for moving. It is a dilemma.


exterior shot of the house I LOVE

Shanendoah, might want to hang on to the rental property for a little while.  Rents in this area are already high.  But, I suspect they wil be going higher.  There is a boom happening at the industrial park out at Tracy Clark.  Tesla bought 1,000 acres to build a big manufacturing plant.  Another company bought 1,000 acres to build a big contract data storage facility.  Talk is that Tesla will bring, I think 50,000 jobs.  The data storage facility should bring another 1,000 or so.  The Tesla annoucement has been followed by a lot of other businesses annoucing plans to move to town or to expand operations to town.  It looks like we could be in for a business boom over the next couple of years.  With corresponding increases in housing prices.

Just for sake of reference, I have been watching the value of our house on Zillow.  While I take the online values with a grain of salt, the fact that the estimated value of our house has increased by nearly 55% in the last year is an indicator that home prices are definitely on the move. 

[shanendoah]

tskeeter - I get what you're saying, but we really have no desire to be out of state landlords. We did it originally because when we moved MIL up with us, they wanted us to sell the condo at $20k (she paid around $60k for it in the mid 1990s). Renting at that time was definitely the better way to go. We rented it out to a friend of MIL's (since it was MIL's property). When MIL passed, C inherited it. We've left it a rental for our tenant, not because we wanted to be out of state landlords. Our tenant is now moving out of state herself. My mother, who originally served as our property manager, now also lives out of state.
And while, if we left it at it's current rent, we'd be clearing $300+ month, which isn't nothing, it is nothing compared to what a $60k lump sum can do for us, at least for our current goals.
And honestly, I can't imagine charging much more than the $750/month we were charging on a 2bd/1ba 800sqft condo in an older part of Reno.

[tskeeter]

Feb 2, 2015 18:48:18 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

tskeeter - I get what you're saying, but we really have no desire to be out of state landlords. We did it originally because when we moved MIL up with us, they wanted us to sell the condo at $20k (she paid around $60k for it in the mid 1990s). Renting at that time was definitely the better way to go. We rented it out to a friend of MIL's (since it was MIL's property). When MIL passed, C inherited it. We've left it a rental for our tenant, not because we wanted to be out of state landlords. Our tenant is now moving out of state herself. My mother, who originally served as our property manager, now also lives out of state.
And while, if we left it at it's current rent, we'd be clearing $300+ month, which isn't nothing, it is nothing compared to what a $60k lump sum can do for us, at least for our current goals.
And honestly, I can't imagine charging much more than the $750/month we were charging on a 2bd/1ba 800sqft condo in an older part of Reno.

I do understand your position.  However, you might be surprised by what the current rental value of the property is.  Might make it worth holding on to for a while. 

To get cash for the move you would like to make, you could borrow against the condo.  If you can pick up another $30K or $40K by waiting a year to sell, that'd be pretty sweet.

If you needed a local property manager, I could find out who a friend of mine with local rental property uses.

[Deleted]

I understand you are looking at ratings for middle and high... But you are also kind of dismissing them based on her current experiences. I'm just saying it's very likely that those experiences are limited to the elemtary school. I'd investigate.

[zibazinski]

Absolutely. Both my kids were immature and not real motivated in elementary school but they were young and classes were made up of all levels of learners. In middle and high they went to magnets. Surrounded by extremely motivated students, they felt pressure to succeed and rose to it. Their IQ's both were above average but surrounded by a lot of unmotivated, they just coasted. Kids will rise or fall surrounded by those who surround them. Not all, of course, but some.

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

So, several of us have offered points for you to consider and you have countered them all. Not one has given you pause (except the idea that you are choosing a house that only meets 1 of your 3 criteria and the least important one of all, according to you).

What is the dilemma? Because, to me, it sounds like you've made up your mind.

[Formerly SK]

I can't believe you're dismissing her academic chances as early as 5th grade.  She was a foster kid - she's had HUGE challenges in her life so far - I'd be shocked if she was doing well academically.  Don't label her yet.

That aside, if she is a kid who's going to struggle in school, it still would be crucial to get her in a good school.  Good schools have resources to help the kids who struggle.  They also presumably have better teachers/staff who have the skills to identify exactly what her strengths/weaknesses are and help with both to become a stronger student.  My autistic son is in a top school and even though his grades are "only" at grade level, he is where he is because his teachers have been EXCELLENT at figuring out how best to teach to him.  I work in a lesser school and believe me, the kids who struggle at my school don't get that quality of help.

Never ever ever choose a bad school over a good school if you can help it.  JMO

[Deleted]

You say your reasons and then tell why they don't matter. You lie to yourself. Number one reason is sick of house you have now. That can be okay reason so don't pretend for education and then tell why it not important.

You need to be true to real reasons first. You should not look at any house until you know yourself inside your reasons.

[muttleynfelix]

Shannen - I get it. DH and I have found 3 houses for sale in a little neighborhood that meet most of our criteria.  Any one of those 3 gives us extra garage space, within or very close to our budget, larger lots, quiet neighborhood, short commute (4 miles), elementary school is good, high school is good, but the junior high ... I can't get past the junior high.  While the ranking is 5 (elementary and HS are 7s), there are some demographics about it that make me think it could go downhill in the 6-10 years it would be before we got to the junior high point with our kids.  When I discuss over those problems with DH, he agrees that it isn't something we can look past.  So, we are looking else where. There are other places that meet our needs.  The commute might be a bit longer (6 or 7 miles), the lots may be smaller (.2 acre vs .8), or we may not have that extra garage.  But I can't see looking past the education side if we are committed to public schools.  Especially when there are so many other options in the area that are fantastic.  

[TheHaitian]

You can change many things about a house but you cannot change the location!

Location, location, location!!!

For our 320k price tag we could have gotten more for our money where we rented prior or around that area, more acreage, bigger homes:
- but school system was not he greatest
- location was not as desirable
- Train station in my current town that will help maintain values / make it desirable

So I got 1 car garage vs the 2 I wanted
I got .37 acres vs .5 to 1 acre my wife wanted
We went with 3 bedrooms 2 bath vs 4 bedrooms 2.5 baths

Trades... I will always go for more desirable location + better school district + ok house vs house I love in not so desirable location and not so good school district.

[emma1420]

You want the dream house.   I completely get that.  And in the photo it does look fantastic.  

Do you think Poptart will be going to college?   Do you want her to go to college?   What sorts of extracurriculars are available for her at the junior high and high school around the dream house?   What sorts of opportunities might you be denying her if you stay where you are?   Is private school a financial option if she needs to be moved into a more righteous academic setting?   I would be asking myself all of those things and taking a hard look at the answers, even if they weren't the answers that I wanted.   This is definitely a time when I think you need to try and think with your head and not your heart (which I know is really difficult when buying a new home).

Finally, I would just remind you that it's about location, location, location.   Houses can be renovated and done up.  But, you can't change it's location.

[bean29]

How old is Pop Tart? I think it is important for the kids to be able to have a "neighborhood" to play in. Streets that they can walk on or ride their bikes on without you worrying they may be hit by a car. Can they ride their bikes to a local park and play tennis or basketball? Can they walk back and forth between your house and their friends safely?

When they do start driving are the streets narrow and parallel parking a requirement?

Our first house had a 2 car garage, and when DH and I were looking he kept telling me I am not going to park outside are you? We never let go of the minimum 2 car garage (we in fact nearly have a 4 car garage).  I have always been very glad we stuck to that 2 car requirement.  I would never go smaller than 2.5 now. 

I would also pay more attention to how the exhaust is vented on the dryer.  our vent curves too much and DH has to use a special brush on a drill to clean it out.  It should be a short vent to the outside.  I would go for as much kitchen as I can afford.  Large closets.  Decent size bedrooms (like not smaller than 11x11 for the kids and master at least 12x13).

Our last house had almost 1/2 acre.  this one is about 1/3 acre.  I did not want to go smaller...now I would not mind it being 1/4 acre.  Our drive way is 2 cars wide and long enough to get 2 cars back and still not block the imaginary sidewalk if we had one. 

It is hard to predict what school activities might be important.  When DS got to high school the neighbor kid pulled him into wrestling.  He was Varsity for 3 years.  it was the only sport DS ever participated in.  I would have expected DD to be into sports, but she has knee problems so she is into Business, FBLA, and is one of 4 Mangers of the School Store.  The experience they get doing that is phenomenal, it is like managing a small retail store.  They have a huge selection of School Spritwear and they sell Snacks and Beverages.  They have to make sure they comply with the laws about what the school can serve when-ie. Teachers can but Soda during the day, students only after school.  If the store is open during sporting events, they only sell things the booster club is not selling at the game.  They have limits on how many students can be in the store at a time, and they have security cameras to check for theft.  If there is theft they have to work with the SRO to charge the Thief.  They have a Financial officer and have to balance the books too.

Our school system has a great summer school program...yes for remedial, but it also has a great variety of programs for all kids.  DD did a theatre program one year, so the kids did a play.  I always figured at least then they did something academic and or physical during the summer.

There were a few houses I really wanted in the subdivision across the street from our last house.  I knew there was a good amount of freeway noise even in my existing subdivision.  One house we offered on was just across the street from the freeway, we loved the house, but knew there would be a lot of noise and pollution from the freeway.  They would not accept our low offer - so we built what we wanted We wanted a ranch, 3 car garage, exposure etc (it was 2 story 2.5 car garage) and I have never been sorry.  I think when you are looking, that old RE advice to walk the neighborhood is a good idea. 

[shanendoah]

Doesn't this board thrive on people who don't listen to the advice of the other posters and justify their decisions?

Yes, on some level my mind is already made up. It is made up that we will NOT buy the house I love because it does not meet our other needs. I will likely know for sure by tomorrow morning, since we're going to see it tonight. And it will probably have to be better than I remember it to get us to really seriously consider it, but none of that changes the fact that I do, in fact, love this home. If we had been able to afford it back when C and I first saw it, I would be living there now, with likely no intention to move. For school consideration, C and I would be looking at private middle and high schools for Pop Tart.

So why, if I pretty much agree with you guys, was I defensive and countering all your arguments? Because, while I don't think anyone explicitly meant it, there is an implicit message in all of those posts that I am a bad parent even for considering this house. That, if I really loved my daughter and cared about her future, I would rather live in a I hated in a good school district than in a house that made me happy to be home in a not so great school district. And yes, being told that I don't really love my daughter makes me defensive.

And yes, it is possible to change anything about a house except it's location IF you have the money to do so. And given that the cost of kitchen renovations in this area (we always seem to be quoted $30k) could easily cover 4 years of private school, would it really be financially better to live in a place I was having to renovate so Pop Tart could be in a good school district, or would it be better to live in a house we all loved and send her to private school?

So what I am saying is that every decision is not either/or. If C and I were to decide to buy this house (again, not actually likely) or to fix up our current house, it would absolutely not mean that we were giving up on Pop Tart's future. It would mean that we were making alternate plans to ensure her educational needs and goals were met.


I have lived in a house I loved where I hated the location. That lasted only 18 months.
I have lived in a house I could tolerate because of the location. That has lasted 10 years now.

The location is no longer the ideal it once was, but it also isn't as bad as the previous location. So yes, what I really want out of my "next" home is to love my home. I want to look forward to getting home. I want to enjoy spending time in my house and have space that works for having friends (mine and Pop Tart's) over. And yes, I honestly believe that having happy parents, even in a bad school district, is better for a child than having unhappy parents, even in a great school district.

[Deleted]

It isn't about listening to our advice.

YOU said your priorities were 1,2,3...

You are ignoring your own stated priorities.

So change them. Acknowledge it.

# 1 = loving the house.

Ok then. Based on that sole criteria, you know your answer.

Enjoy!

[muttleynfelix]

Because, while I don't think anyone explicitly meant it, there is an implicit message in all of those posts that I am a bad parent even for considering this house. That, if I really loved my daughter and cared about her future, I would rather live in a I hated in a good school district than in a house that made me happy to be home in a not so great school district. And yes, being told that I don't really love my daughter makes me defensive.

It is funny that we all have our triggers.  I know there are things that completely make me flip out - implications that a baby sleeping is somehow because the parent did something right.  

I don't think anyone was implying that you are a bad parent for considering the house. I think we were all concerned that it didn't meet YOUR stated goals. Like I said, we all have things that trigger for us and even though that isn't what people mean or imply at all, it sounds that way in our head.  

Most people are probably going to have to compromise on at least one thing when house hunting - house size, lot size, school, commute, price, etc.  It is a matter of finding the right compromise for your family.  However, if you are compromising on too many things, you are probably going to end up unhappy.  

[The Captain]

Feb 3, 2015 16:44:47 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

Doesn't this board thrive on people who don't listen to the advice of the other posters and justify their decisions?
...

And yes, it is possible to change anything about a house except it's location IF you have the money to do so. And given that the cost of kitchen renovations in this area (we always seem to be quoted $30k) could easily cover 4 years of private school, would it really be financially better to live in a place I was having to renovate so Pop Tart could be in a good school district, or would it be better to live in a house we all loved and send her to private school?

We actually were planning on sending DD to a private HS.  The tuition/fees right now are 11-13K a year.  We went to the open house and were not impressed with the educational bang for our buck.  No AP classes.  Hell, even the crappy local public HS had something like 13-16 AP classes. 

That, coupled with the fact that the private high school was in less than a savory area meant DD wouldn't be able to participate in any after school activities (and walk or ride her bike home).  That's not the type of HS experience I'd want for her.

If you have good private school options that that gives you a lot more choices.  There's nothing wrong with wanting to live in the house you love.

[Deleted]

You know shane, I think if you had come on saying, the house I love in my neighborhood came on the market at a price we can afford ! I am so ready to live in a house I love. I know it means we will have to be more creative about schooling and commute issues going forward if we buy it, but I think we could make the alternatives work...

Response would have been different.

I really don't want to be mean. But I have to admit that your saying a 2 school isn't so bad because your daughter is who she is... Did peeve me a little. Had you mentioned alternatives at that point, I also might have responded differently. However, it really did feel like you were dismissing the issue because it wouldn't matter what kind of school your daughter went to.

I'm guessing I'm the one making you feel defensive. So I'm going to say this and I'll leave the thread... And it's possible that I'm just really self assured, but when people generally manage to make me feel defensive/guilty ... It's ... Well, it's something I need to be looking closer at....

And buy this house, or a house you hate, are probably not the only options.

[TheHaitian]

I don't have a kid and not a parent so I don't really care about school district or education.

And most likely if we move forward with having a kid by the time they start school we will most likely have to move again.

But WE still made location and school district a top priority not because we were thinking about future kids but because of RESALE value. I will buy a in my neighborhood or in Natick or in Wellesley Falls before I buy a mansion in Worcester.

Why? Because even a in those neighborhoods will sale faster and probably for more money than the mansion in Worcester. It is the reality of it...

Since I don't plan on living in my house for at most 5-10 years, resale value was on the top of my list and that came with location and school district.

Has nothing to do with being a good parent, has to do with making a sound investment in case you decide to sale down the road unless you are 100% certain it is your forever home.

Also let's be honest, when you list
1
2
3

Most people take
1 - non negotiable
2 - maybe
3 - can do without if needed

And then you don't have 1 or 2 but set on #3 as the reason to buy a house, most people will get a WTF? Moment.

2 car garage was a would be nice to have for me... It would have been weird if I forgo location and school district to go buy a house that has the 2 car garage.

And that is what I walked away from: 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2 car garage, 290k but was a bit further out than we wanted, no train station in town and ok schools. But it had the 2 car garage....

Just breathe and take a step back: your house is out there!!!

[shanendoah]

oped - Yes, I want to love the house (or at least like it), and that is a priority for me. That is not OUR priority. (Damn marriage meaning I have to compromise with C )
So yes, I love this house. I have loved other houses even more. (Seriously, check out this builder.) But the only locations where I can afford one of these homes are too far a commute/outside of our social circle. In that sense, my number one priority is a commute that is under 1 hour each way. (Edited to add: Also, please don't leave the thread. I like "arguing" with people. It challenges me, and does make me think, even if you don't always see it in my responses.)

We honestly have lots of needs/requirements. We're not even looking at homes that have less than 3 bedrooms. In general, I won't consider it unless it has at least 1.75 bathrooms. Also, off street parking is a must; at least a one car garage is something I would list as a requirement, but not something C would list as a requirement.

That's the thing with this being a dilemma. I KNOW that house doesn't meet all of our requirements. If it did, there would be no dilemma.
Sometimes, emotion trumps logic. C certainly didn't meet all the requirements I used to have for a husband. The house I've been in for the last 10 years didn't meet all of our requirements at the time. Life is full of compromises.
I love this house. (Or, I remember loving this house back in 2008. We'll see if I still love it tonight.) And there would be some benefits to staying in our current neighborhood (which is why we have also seriously considered renovating our current home with the money, instead of moving). But no, it otherwise doesn't meet our requirements. Hence, dilemma.

But again, we are almost certainly not going to buy it. If I do still really love it, we have 6-10 weeks to keep looking at other properties and see if there are properties elsewhere that I could be just as happy (overall situation), or happier, with.

Tenant doesn't move out of the condo until the end of this month. Condo will get painted and carpets cleaned, hopefully first week of March, and then will go on the market. Our realtor does predict a quick sale, but that still means we won't have the money until mid or late March, at the earliest. And since I don't know exactly what it will sell for or what taxes/fees will be, I won't know for certain how much we have to spend until we have money in hand. I don't even plan on getting our loan pre-approval letter until then.

[bean29]

For the record, I never once thought you were a bad parent.

Real Estate Decisions are stressful b/c once made they are difficult and time consuming/possibly expensive to change.

You asked for our input and we gave it.

I really agree with Carl, Strong School Districts hold up property value. When the other well paid residents flee the city b/c of crime and poor schools, the ones left will be assessed higher property taxes to pay for city services.

I really liked living in the city of Milwaukee. Our house was well laid out and the location was very convenient. The Schools were horrible and I hated the gang of kids hanging out on the corner in front of my house. Property taxes on an equivalent value house would probably be the same if not more that my current house and I would feel I needed to send my kids to private school.

I have bought 8 properties in my life. We have offered on numerous others. We have also placed a few offers that I withdrew prior to acceptance b/c after I slept on it, I was positive the house would not work for us.

I wish you luck in your house hunting process, and I am fine if you ultimately decide that the house you love is right for you.

[Formerly SK]

Feb 3, 2015 17:10:56 GMT -5 oped said:

You know shame, I think if you had come on saying, the house I love in my neighborhood came on the market at a price we can afford ! I am so ready to live in a house I love. I know it means we will have to be more creative about schooling and commute issues going forward if we buy it, but I think we could make the alternatives work...

Response would have been different.

I really don't want to be mean. But I have to admit that your saying a 2 school isn't so bad because your daughter is who she is... Did peeve me a little. Had you mentioned alternatives at that point, I also might have responded differently. However, it really did feel like you were dismissing the issue because it wouldn't matter what kind of school your daughter went to.

I'm guessing I'm the one making you feel defensive. So I'm going to say this and I'll leave the thread... And it's possible that I'm just really self assured, but when people generally manage to make me feel defensive/guilty ... It's ... Well, it's something I need to be looking closer at....

And but this house, or a house you hate, are probably not the only options.

I agree with Oped here.  It sounded to me like you were saying a good school isn't important because your child isn't a genius.  So, perhaps there was some miscommunication. 

That said, I actually DO think poorly of parents who deliberately move to a bad district when they could afford otherwise.  I'm not talking about people who bought before they had kids, or people who truly can't afford a home in a good district.  But yeah, I have some friends who chose a spectacular home in a bad district vs a good home in a good district.  I totally judge them.  And when I listen to them bitch and moan about how bad the schools are, I mentally want to slap them in the face.  If something is important to you (and man these people can talk for hours about how important a good education is) then f*cking prioritize it.  Or quit your b*tching and relax in your 4000ft house. 

Obviously I have some issues with these friends that has tainted my opinions on this thread. 

[Deleted]

At this point I'd be happy to find something I even like ... Sigh.

[shanendoah]

TheHaitian - Oh, if only I had one non-negotiable item in this house hunt

Non-negotiable: 3+ bedrooms, 1.5+ bath, 1400+sqft, off street parking with enough space to build at least a one car carport if there isn't already a carport or garage, no baseboard/wall heat, less than a 1 hour each way commute

So high on the wants list they're close to non-negotiable: 1.75+ bath, 1+ car garage, yard, neighborhood we like, good kitchen, better schools than the current neighborhood

Really, really want: $450k or less, 1600+sqft, natural gas or oil heat, gas stove, good entertaining space/flow of public spaces, good schools, commute shorter than 50 minutes each way (which is current commute)

Want: 4+ bedrooms, 2000+sqft, fenced yard, 2+ car garage, side by side w/d (not stacking), room for the Kinnect to be used properly, dedicated gaming (as in tabletop, not computer) space, gas fireplace


And yes, I know my listed goals have items from the "really, really" want category as the top 2, and something from the non-negotiable as the 3rd.
That is because we do have the option of just renovating the current house instead of moving. That means we can focus more on the wants and less on the needs, since we have that option.

[weltschmerz]

Feb 2, 2015 13:06:20 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

I put this post up on my blog today:


I have a housing dilemma.

We learned in January that our long term (8 years) tenant in our out of state rental property will be moving. She’s been a fabulous tenant, and we are sad to see her go. While we have no problems being landlords, we don’t honestly want to be out of state landlords to a tenant we do not know, especially now that we do not have a built in property manager in my mom (since she has also left the area). So, we are selling the condo.

We own the condo free and clear, which means we should clear $50-60k after realtor fees and taxes. We are looking at taking that money and buying a nicer home where we are. We would prefer not to have to sell the house we are living in before buying a new home. We may choose to rent out the current house, but even if we do not, it will be just that much easier to get it ready for sale and to show it if we’re not currently living in it.
Talking to our mortgage guy, we have two options. One is more complex and would leave me feeling less financially secure, but puts our buying power at $100k more than the simpler option.

We also have three goals for moving. In order of priority, they are:
1) Better schools for our daughter/future children
2) A shorter commute for me
3) A bigger/nicer house
The bigger/nicer house option is lowest on the priority list because we could take that same $50-60k, and make some major renovations to our current home.

Our ideal area has great schools and a very short commute for me. However, for the most part, it would require us to go with the more complex, less financially secure option for the mortgage. There are some houses in the area we are looking at that meet our requirements and are in the price range for the simpler mortgage, but, while they may be bigger than our current house (as in have a second bathroom), they are not nicer. (These houses also sell within a week of coming on the market. Sadly, I am not exaggerating. Average time on market in the Seattle area right now is 17 days, and this include neighborhoods like mine, where houses are sitting on the market for months.)

If we went with one of those houses- ideal neighborhood, simple mortgage price range –the plan would be to then do the basic cleanup needed on our current house, sell it, and immediately use the $30k or so we’d get from that to do renovations on the new house. That puts us with the double inconvenience of going through escrow (twice) and renovations.
That has us talking seriously about staying put and just doing the renovations needed for our house. While no renovations pay for themselves completely, some of them (like adding a 4th bedroom and 2nd bathroom) would certainly add to the value of our home.

A house I LOVE has come on the market. This house has been on and off the market since 2007, though never sold. At this point, it seems to come on the market for a few months, not sell, and then go off. I am not certain why (there have been a couple of inspections, so there might be something really wrong with it), or it might just be that the owners are not willing to lower their price.
We first saw the house as an open house, probably in 2007 or 2008, when we were first considering moving my late MIL in with us. I fell in love with the house then. And now, it is back on the market, in the simple mortgage price range. Fate?

And here is my dilemma. This house is only half a mile from our current home. Not only would our daughter not move to a better school district, she would even be on the exact same bus she takes now, just a different stop. My commute would, obviously, not improve. That means that of our 3 reasons for moving, we would only be hitting one of them.

Though it would be hitting that reason big time. The house is considerably bigger (5bd/3.5ba vs 3bd/1ba) than our current home and is much nicer. Because it is the simpler mortgage, without a need to instantly sink more money into renovations, it would make keeping our current house and turning it into a rental financially viable. And location wise, that would also be incredibly convenient, with C only being a half mile away for any property management that needed to be done.

But, and I keep coming back to this but, our daughter remains in a school that is rated a 2 (on a scale of 1-10) instead of moving to a school that’s rated an 8 or 9. Still, this would be true if we just renovated our current house.

We have an appointment to view the house later this week. Maybe we will see it now and not love it as much we did before. Maybe we will be able to find out why the sale has not gone through after a couple of inspections and realize we do not want to deal with that. Or maybe we will remain in love with the house, in love enough that we will really have to review our priorities for moving. It is a dilemma.


exterior shot of the house I LOVE

Good Lord! That's an awful lot of house for just 3 people!

A good school district would be something very, very important to me.  A 2 out of 10 just doesn't cut it.

[shanendoah]

oped & Formerly SK - I get what you are saying. I do. And I probably hit more on the "my daughter is not academically inclined" when I should have focused on "we have the means and ability to supplement to her education at home/through non-school activities". So yes, school district matters, but we also believe (very strongly) that it is our job to educate her beyond anything the school does. Moving to a good school district makes that easier, but it will be a focus for us as parents regardless of where we live.
Honestly, if we did stay in our neighborhood (either renovating or buying the "love" house), I would expect that we'd move her into a Montessori school for 7-12, possibly the local Waldorf school, though it's really inconveniently located, and the Montessori philosophy would likely be better for Pop Tart than the Waldorf. At the same time, the high schools have some choice issues, and she's talking about a career in healthcare, so maybe she'd want to go to the Health and Human Services focused high school in our district.

[shanendoah]

weltschmerz - does it help to know there's a plan for a 4th person? (But yes, it's a ridiculously big house.)

[weltschmerz]

I moved to another country so my child could have a better education.

A big-ass house wouldn't be enough to keep me there.

[Formerly SK]

Feb 3, 2015 18:42:17 GMT -5 shanendoah said:

oped & Formerly SK - I get what you are saying. I do. And I probably hit more on the "my daughter is not academically inclined" when I should have focused on "we have the means and ability to supplement to her education at home/through non-school activities". So yes, school district matters, but we also believe (very strongly) that it is our job to educate her beyond anything the school does. Moving to a good school district makes that easier, but it will be a focus for us as parents regardless of where we live.
Honestly, if we did stay in our neighborhood (either renovating or buying the "love" house), I would expect that we'd move her into a Montessori school for 7-12, possibly the local Waldorf school, though it's really inconveniently located, and the Montessori philosophy would likely be better for Pop Tart than the Waldorf. At the same time, the high schools have some choice issues, and she's talking about a career in healthcare, so maybe she'd want to go to the Health and Human Services focused high school in our district.

My kids go to a top school and I supplement their education.  I totally get what you're saying.

Bad schools are bad because teachers don't have control over their classrooms.  Or such a large percentage are behind academically that the teacher can't teach at grade level.  There are no books in the library.  Recess/music/PE has been cut.  Eating lunch gives you a headache because the kids are loud and wild in the cafeteria.  I have nothing against going private and if that's what a person plans, then wonderful.  But I don't think it's valid to put a kid in a bad school and say "I'll supplement" because in the end your kid is spending 6-7 hours a day being bored or frustrated.  Reading or doing math in the evening doesn't make up for that.

Anyway, this is my soapbox issue and I've probably posted too much.  I can be annoying that way. 

[justme]

Why don't you get on that property brothers show (send the contractor brother my way after). Then you could have it all!

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Sorry, shanendoah.  Didn't mean to come off so critical and judgemental.

I was just riffing off of YOUR list of criteria and trying to keep those criteria front and center in your thinking.  Because I *thought* that is what you wanted us to do.  

Remember, you LOVE the house.  That is your heart talking.

Good commute, good schools, 1.5+ baths, covered parking, etc. are FACTS.  Those come in to play when your brain is talking.

It would be nice if our hearts and our brains said the same thing all of the time, but, alas, that is rarely the case.  

Besides, you have always seemed to me to be a very factual person in thought and deed.  This house is outside of the factual box, but that doesn't make it necessarily the wrong choice.  It just won't be a choice that lines up with all of the facts you laid out.  YOU need to decide if it aligns closely enough with the factual criteria that you can both LOVE it and LIVE in it.  

Good luck in the decision.  I think I speak for many of us when I say that there is NO perfect house -- there are always tradeoffs and compromises.  You would hate my house -- too small.  But it works for me, and I sincerely hope this house works for you because it looks like a very cool house from the picture.