tloonya
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What status?
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Post by tloonya on Feb 2, 2015 11:08:50 GMT -5
Let's face it, MJ had been a b!tch. Everyone knows (specially working in highly professional environment) that people are taking advantage of a snow to get relaxed at no fault of theirs. Once a year, common! We want to cozy up and not to wake up too early...is it a crime? Yeah, if your manager is a b!tch. Do you wake up every day and thank your lucky stars you are self employed? NOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo!!! I am looking for a job!!!!!!!!!!! I love working for people, companies, whoever cuts my check. It just took me a while to realize. And DH is not stopping me this time. He agreed to it. Whoo Hoo!!!
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NancysSummerSip
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Today's Mood: Full of piss and vinegar
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Feb 2, 2015 11:11:01 GMT -5
Let's face it, MJ had been a b!tch. Everyone knows (specially working in highly professional environment) that people are taking advantage of a snow to get relaxed at no fault of theirs. Once a year, common! We want to cozy up and not to wake up too early...is it a crime? Yeah, if your manager is a b!tch. Do you wake up every day and thank your lucky stars you are self employed? Careful what you say. Loony wants to get out of the grocery biz and work for The Man again. That's right. She wants to be one of us. No more melon jokes, no more Amish chicken choking, no one squeezing Loony's tomatoes. Crap. And I was planning a trip to Philly this year.
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Lizard Queen
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103/2024
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Post by Lizard Queen on Feb 2, 2015 11:13:47 GMT -5
They seem to plow my mom's road last. If I still lived there when I drove my little Honda, I'd probably have to mmiss work due to snow on ooccasion. No way I can shovel all the way to the main road! Fortunately, it never happened. My car back then had more clearance, and my current road is plowed early and frequently.
That said, as an employee, I think more feedback is better than the little to none I got for a decade. Just sayin'.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 2, 2015 11:14:30 GMT -5
Whoops, goofed up the format. ... Hell, I tend to get in late ... ...That does not seem to be a requirement. At least not a strict one. Bill, not sure who you're quoting with the "Hell, I tend to get in late" but it isn't me. Would you please fix that so that you're not misquoting me? Thanks.
(I'm one of those annoying on-time people.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2015 11:20:25 GMT -5
The first quote was MJ.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 2, 2015 11:24:18 GMT -5
it's not a strict requirement - shit happens to all of us. At some point, all of us have been late. I'd have to come down hard on everyone (including myself) and I'm not gonna do that. If I know I can't be on time 100% of the time, it's unreasonable to expect everyone else to do it. I talked to him - seems that it took a full 2 hours to dig all 4 cars out and clear a path. Then the commute was hell (which I expected). Whatever, I'll just grumble under my breath some more.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 2, 2015 11:26:11 GMT -5
Whoops, goofed up the format. ...That does not seem to be a requirement. At least not a strict one. Bill, not sure who you're quoting with the "Hell, I tend to get in late" but it isn't me. Would you please fix that so that you're not misquoting me? Thanks.
(I'm one of those annoying on-time people.)
Yes, I will fix it. Okay, fixed original and here is it corrected also: ... Hell, I tend to get in late ... ... just make it about the simple requirement of being on time. That does not seem to be a requirement. At least not a strict one.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Feb 2, 2015 11:31:39 GMT -5
When did he make it in, 11:00? I read that Super Bowl Monday was one of the biggest days for call in and late starts. Last year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans chose not to go into work the Monday after the Super Bowl, with an additional 4.4 million arriving late. You had a double wammy with 14" snow and bad weather. It sounds like you have a really good team if they all came in on time except one who still made it, but late. If you want to look at the bright side.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 2, 2015 11:38:14 GMT -5
... Whatever, I'll just grumble under my breath some more. So we are back to the question in the title?
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Happy prose
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Post by Happy prose on Feb 2, 2015 11:46:19 GMT -5
I supervise 13 people currently. I dock them vacation time when they're late, snow or no snow. It's not fair to the employees who show up on time. Now most are seldom late.
i'm not a total witch. I have people who are on time day in dayout. If an occasion arises that they're late, like a bridge was closed, basement flooded, etc, I don't charge them. I do have one lady who is late 3-4 times a week, and i tell her if she wants to spend her vacation on the highway, fine by me. I prefer under a palm tree.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 2, 2015 11:55:57 GMT -5
I would have a talk to him about his mom sending an email on his behalf.
But I would not be pissed off about him being late in bad weather. I actually texted my team this morning and told them all to use their judgment as to whether or not they make it in today. We are all professionals and have the ability to work from home if we have to. We all know we have very tight deadlines this week and we will all work just as hard from home as we will from work.
I am currently working from my kitchen table. I did try to make it in and I slid twice within a mile of my house. I promptly turned around and decided I was working from home. I texted my boss to let him know that I am working from home as the roads are awful.
My company doesn't close unless the Governor declares a state of emergency. That doesn't mean I am going to drive on roads that I feel are dangerous. And if my boss doesn't like it he can fire me...but considering how hard I work I know that isn't an issue that I have to worry about.
So no, I would not be upset that he was coming in later than you told him he could arrive (I don't micromanage like that)....but I would have an issue with his mommy emailing on his behalf. that is unprofessional
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 2, 2015 11:56:03 GMT -5
I supervise 13 people currently. I dock them vacation time when they're late, snow or no snow. It's not fair to the employees who show up on time. Now most are seldom late. i'm not a total witch. ... I would say you aren't being a witch at all. You have established a policy and procedure that all you supervise are impacted by equally and consistently (and assuming you are impacted as well). Those who work for you could choose to work elsewhere if they wish for more flexibility in work hours.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Feb 2, 2015 11:56:17 GMT -5
I supervise 13 people currently. I dock them vacation time when they're late, snow or no snow. It's not fair to the employees who show up on time. Now most are seldom late. i'm not a total witch. I have people who are on time day in dayout. If an occasion arises that they're late, like a bridge was closed, basement flooded, etc, I don't charge them. I do have one lady who is late 3-4 times a week, and i tell her if she wants to spend her vacation on the highway, fine by me. I prefer under a palm tree. I bet they can't wait for your retirement or transfer.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 2, 2015 12:01:21 GMT -5
TBH the little daily latenesses - while annoying - aren't the issue in this particular case. Hell, I tend to get in late especially when I have to prep and drop off DS to school/MIL's. It's the fact that everyone had extra time to dig themselves out and yet he still waiting until an hour before report time to start getting a move on. It takes him an hour in optimal weather with minimal traffic to get to work, so I don't know what he was thinking here. As a human, it makes sense that you're annoyed at his lack of planning, especially when everybody else handled it and you gave plenty of notice. Vent here because we all agree this guy's a shmuck.
But IMHO gooddecision's post was spot on about how to look at it and handle it as a manager. As a manager, this employee's issue isn't planning, notice, commute or anything else that happens outside the workplace... it's whether he is on time or not. Simple. Binary. Easy to explain and document. Don't get drawn into the personal outside details - just make it about the simple requirement of being on time.
Considering MJ send she gets in late, I am not sure how she should handle this. My own boss usually rolls in around 8:15-8:30 (our start time is 8). I think it would be pretty ridiculous of him to watch the clock to make sure we are all there at 8 when he isn't (ok, that would be impossible since he isn't there!lol).
I treat my staff like the professionals that they are. There is only one person in my department who will push the envelope with working as little as possible. The rest of them put in long hours all the time. I am certainly not going to bitch if they are 10 minutes late when they are working until 7 or later the majority of the time.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 2, 2015 12:04:03 GMT -5
I would have a talk to him about his mom sending an email on his behalf.
But I would not be pissed off about him being late in bad weather. I actually texted my team this morning and told them all to use their judgment as to whether or not they make it in today. We are all professionals and have the ability to work from home if we have to. We all know we have very tight deadlines this week and we will all work just as hard from home as we will from work.
I am currently working from my kitchen table. I did try to make it in and I slid twice within a mile of my house. I promptly turned around and decided I was working from home. I texted my boss to let him know that I am working from home as the roads are awful.
My company doesn't close unless the Governor declares a state of emergency. That doesn't mean I am going to drive on roads that I feel are dangerous. And if my boss doesn't like it he can fire me...but considering how hard I work I know that isn't an issue that I have to worry about.
So no, I would not be upset that he was coming in later than you told him he could arrive (I don't micromanage like that)....but I would have an issue with his mommy emailing on his behalf. that is unprofessional currently, I am the only one who can do our work from home. No one else has a laptop or access to the intranet. Also, we already have 2 people out with scheduled vacation days. And yes, his mom should not have gotten involved and it IS pretty unprofessional. I have only worked with my mother once at a summer job, and I made damn sure that our paths never crossed professionally. Yes they knew I was F's daughter, but that didn't affect my behavior or job performance.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Feb 2, 2015 12:06:02 GMT -5
I am sorry but given the situation (snow)... You would have been the B word if you did make a big deal out of it.
I get it: plan ahead, blah blah... I also work for a company that doesn't close even when declared a state of emergency and I don't expect my teammates to come in... Let alone on time when it snows badly.
Just shake it off and move on!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 2, 2015 12:09:08 GMT -5
I would have a talk to him about his mom sending an email on his behalf.
But I would not be pissed off about him being late in bad weather. I actually texted my team this morning and told them all to use their judgment as to whether or not they make it in today. We are all professionals and have the ability to work from home if we have to. We all know we have very tight deadlines this week and we will all work just as hard from home as we will from work.
I am currently working from my kitchen table. I did try to make it in and I slid twice within a mile of my house. I promptly turned around and decided I was working from home. I texted my boss to let him know that I am working from home as the roads are awful.
My company doesn't close unless the Governor declares a state of emergency. That doesn't mean I am going to drive on roads that I feel are dangerous. And if my boss doesn't like it he can fire me...but considering how hard I work I know that isn't an issue that I have to worry about.
So no, I would not be upset that he was coming in later than you told him he could arrive (I don't micromanage like that)....but I would have an issue with his mommy emailing on his behalf. that is unprofessional currently, I am the only one who can do our work from home. No one else has a laptop or access to the intranet. Also, we already have 2 people out with scheduled vacation days. And yes, his mom should not have gotten involved and it IS pretty unprofessional. I have only worked with my mother once at a summer job, and I made damn sure that our paths never crossed professionally. Yes they knew I was F's daughter, but that didn't affect my behavior or job performance. I don't know what to say. I will not die for my job and I don't expect my staff to put their lives at risk just to come in to work. I am probably more lenient than most managers when it comes to snow because I won't drive in it when it is really bad out.
But my staff work very hard all of the time...I don't know if it is because I treat them like the professionals that they are or if I got lucky.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 2, 2015 12:11:23 GMT -5
I think it's difficult to know the real tone of your text or how that fits in with the current culture, your particular group, etc. Also - not sure how much snow your area has, but here, it is just bordering on ridiculous. I've opted to work from home today. My point is - should it have been a snow day or not? We are having advisories that it is dangerous - leastwise I got a call from one of our schools on the autocall saying due to hazardous driving conditions, the school is closed today. So - considerations of that should be taken into account, as well as abilities to handle essential duties remotely if need be. Depending on the level of employee, and I'm thinking not too high up here, I would not be pleased to be receiving a text at 6:30 in the morning. If my start time is 8:30, I am not interested in hearing anything before that. What if someone has the alarm set at 7 am and is fighting off a cold and trying to get as much sleep as possible? Is this an enterprise where doors need to opened sharply at a certain time, or there is a client meeting or call early in the day? Unless there is some compelling reason, I don't see the need for the early texting. Everyone gets a few lates in, as you've stated. Is his too much? too often, too late, interfering with deadlines? Those are the important questions, not when he does it - if in fact - the culture accepts a few here and there. Yes - he makes a complete ass of himself by involving his mother. But if you are truly trying to evaluate your own behavior in this situation, don't let that red herring distract you. How does this situation fit in with the overall culture, esp. regarding lateness, snow days, notifications, compelling work duties that can't be delayed, level of these employees etc. Are your action in tune with that overall culture? There was enough ice and snow to justify the delayed opening. Some people coming from farther north might have wanted to work from home. Texting for a delayed opening as early as we find out (around 6:30) is SOP around here. His latenesses are habitual, and there isn't that much urgency to get started working once he's here. I personally don't care if people are late - I just want the work to get done. But then it's not fair to the people to strive to get in on time every day. Also, we have warehouses to support and some of them are open 24/7. In that case, we need to help them as soon as we can. Given my own situation, I feel that I am VERY reasonable when it comes to lateness. I just think his are getting to be a bit too common.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Feb 2, 2015 12:12:06 GMT -5
currently, I am the only one who can do our work from home. No one else has a laptop or access to the intranet. Also, we already have 2 people out with scheduled vacation days. And yes, his mom should not have gotten involved and it IS pretty unprofessional. I have only worked with my mother once at a summer job, and I made damn sure that our paths never crossed professionally. Yes they knew I was F's daughter, but that didn't affect my behavior or job performance. I don't know what to say. I will not die for my job and I don't expect my staff to put their lives at risk just to come in to work. I am probably more lenient than most managers when it comes to snow because I won't drive in it when it is really bad out.
But my staff work very hard all of the time...I don't know if it is because I treat them like the professionals that they are or if I got lucky.
I think you're lucky. Every professional job I've had has that one douche who just can't get out of their own way.
and since I work alone, it must be me in this office.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 2, 2015 12:16:20 GMT -5
I don't know what to say. I will not die for my job and I don't expect my staff to put their lives at risk just to come in to work. I am probably more lenient than most managers when it comes to snow because I won't drive in it when it is really bad out.
But my staff work very hard all of the time...I don't know if it is because I treat them like the professionals that they are or if I got lucky.
I think you're lucky. Every professional job I've had has that one douche who just can't get out of their own way.
and since I work alone, it must be me in this office.
I should clarify...all of my staff but one work very hard. That one is going on a PIP this month.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 2, 2015 12:18:02 GMT -5
As a human, it makes sense that you're annoyed at his lack of planning, especially when everybody else handled it and you gave plenty of notice. Vent here because we all agree this guy's a shmuck.
But IMHO gooddecision's post was spot on about how to look at it and handle it as a manager. As a manager, this employee's issue isn't planning, notice, commute or anything else that happens outside the workplace... it's whether he is on time or not. Simple. Binary. Easy to explain and document. Don't get drawn into the personal outside details - just make it about the simple requirement of being on time.
Considering MJ send she gets in late, I am not sure how she should handle this. My own boss usually rolls in around 8:15-8:30 (our start time is 8). I think it would be pretty ridiculous of him to watch the clock to make sure we are all there at 8 when he isn't (ok, that would be impossible since he isn't there!lol).
I treat my staff like the professionals that they are. There is only one person in my department who will push the envelope with working as little as possible. The rest of them put in long hours all the time. I am certainly not going to bitch if they are 10 minutes late when they are working until 7 or later the majority of the time.
Agree. When I posted that I hadn't seen MJ's post about being late herself.
Reading a little more of what's going on and the pattern, it would be tough for MJ to call the employee out about being late since she herself is late and the parameters for her annoyance (something between "it's OK to be late sometimes" and "he's annoying and late too often") are not well defined. Either set up rules that everybody follows and you can easily explain or don't. But if you don't, it's tough to get PO'd at an employee who isn't following the rules... because there aren't any.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 2, 2015 12:21:09 GMT -5
I see what milee and gooddecisions are saying - it's an all or nothing equation. It just seems like it shouldn't be as black and white as that. For managers who aren't so black and white: how do you deal with this stuff? How do you feel out who just has crap luck sometimes and who is taking advantage?
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Feb 2, 2015 12:24:51 GMT -5
I understand the annoyance with this guy. If he was normally on time that's one thing. The guy has been so habitually late that his start time was adjusted to 8:30 when everyone else is expected to be in at 8am. I'm guessing that wouldn't be done for just anyone.
Reminds me of someone we are auditing who blamed last week's snowstorm for them being two months overdue in providing files.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 2, 2015 12:25:51 GMT -5
... I personally don't care if people are late - I just want the work to get done. But then it's not fair to the people to strive to get in on time every day. Also, we have warehouses to support and some of them are open 24/7. In that case, we need to help them as soon as we can. ... I just think his are getting to be a bit too common. You indicated earlier that he makes up the time. I assume that means he is working later which would make your office's support for those 24/7 warehouses available extended time at the end of the day. It also seems like those who make it on time are "rewarded" with being able to leave on time. As far as the last minute, deal with it directly. That is why you are the manager.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Feb 2, 2015 12:26:54 GMT -5
I see what milee and gooddecisions are saying - it's an all or nothing equation. It just seems like it shouldn't be as black and white as that. For managers who aren't so black and white: how do you deal with this stuff? How do you feel out who just has crap luck sometimes and who is taking advantage? I'm definitely a more flexible manager than others in this thread. I have 6 employees, 5 of whom are very professional and turn in quality work on time, every time. For those 5 employees, I am much less rigid because I know that no matter where they are working their work will get done. For the 1 that is going on a PIP, I am much less flexible with her. She doesn't put in the hours (until recently...she has gotten better now that she knows she will be on the chopping block) that everyone else does and her work product is not up to par.
So if 5 of my employees pulled what your employee did today (minus the mommy part) I wouldn't blink. If everyone else made it in but this 1 employee I would probably have an issue (especially since she lives as close as I do to the office while everyone else is much further away).
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Feb 2, 2015 12:30:34 GMT -5
I see what milee and gooddecisions are saying - it's an all or nothing equation. It just seems like it shouldn't be as black and white as that. For managers who aren't so black and white: how do you deal with this stuff? How do you feel out who just has crap luck sometimes and who is taking advantage? I deal with it openly and honestly. "I want to have a workplace not governed by strict rules on arrival time. However, I feel that you are taking too much advantage of it. What can we do to make this workable for the both of us?"
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 2, 2015 12:32:41 GMT -5
I see what milee and gooddecisions are saying - it's an all or nothing equation. It just seems like it shouldn't be as black and white as that. For managers who aren't so black and white: how do you deal with this stuff? How do you feel out who just has crap luck sometimes and who is taking advantage? I don't actually see it as all or nothing, just that whatever it is needs to be well defined so you can explain it to an employee and also model it yourself.
Example - it could be the policy that everybody has to be on time but has 2 grace days a rolling 30 day period where there's no penalty for being late. On the 3rd late day in a rolling 30 day period, you receive X penalty (write up?). On the 4th late day in a rolling 30 day period, you receive Y penalty (suspension?)
If it's not well defined and you yourself come in late, most employees will naturally assume that there's no policy at all, so it's a bit unfair to pick and choose when to be annoyed.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 2, 2015 12:32:54 GMT -5
I see what milee and gooddecisions are saying - it's an all or nothing equation. It just seems like it shouldn't be as black and white as that. For managers who aren't so black and white: how do you deal with this stuff? How do you feel out who just has crap luck sometimes and who is taking advantage? I'm definitely a more flexible manager than others in this thread. I have 6 employees, 5 of whom are very professional and turn in quality work on time, every time. For those 5 employees, I am much less rigid because I know that no matter where they are working their work will get done. For the 1 that is going on a PIP, I am much less flexible with her. She doesn't put in the hours (until recently...she has gotten better now that she knows she will be on the chopping block) that everyone else does and her work product is not up to par.
So if 5 of my employees pulled what your employee did today (minus the mommy part) I wouldn't blink. If everyone else made it in but this 1 employee I would probably have an issue (especially since she lives as close as I do to the office while everyone else is much further away).
what's a PIP?
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Feb 2, 2015 12:35:35 GMT -5
PIP = performance improvement plan
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ken a.k.a OMK
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They killed Kenny, the bastards.
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Feb 2, 2015 12:37:42 GMT -5
My company never closed. It wasn't like we were a hospital or utility, just a engineering/manufacturing company. Even when the Governor declared a state of emergency and asked people to stay off the roads, we had to go in or use vacation. Sometimes they'd let you work a Saturday as comp time.
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