70th anniversary of liberation of Auschwitz...

[deziloooooo]

The anniversary of the liberation of this infamouse place is upon us and the following article seems to express where we are today regarding what happened there quite well..in my opinion at least...


america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/1/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-auschwitz.html
===================================================
What we talk about when we talk about Auschwitz

Our bulwark against another Holocaust is our humanity toward all groups

January 27, 2015 2:00AM ET
by Avraham Burg @avrahamburg


The 70th anniversary of the liberation by the Red Army of the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz-Birkenau is not simply a Jewish event. Even though most of its victims were Jewish, the meaning of the Holocaust goes far beyond the genocidal trauma inflicted on Europe’s Jews. Auschwitz symbolizes a dark moment in the history of the West in which the principles we accept as universal today almost perished along with Europe’s Jews. Absorbing the universal lessons of the Holocaust is vital if we are to prevent similar horrors in our own time, perpetrated against new victims.
============================================

To read rest of the article click on link above...

[wyouser]

There is some discussion on this on EE this morning in the Earth Muffin thread. There is a film that has lain forgotten since the end of the war. Alfred Hitchkock was asked by the British and Americans with some help from the Russians to put a film together about the camps. It was deemed too graphic for folks and then the cold war began so the project lay forgotten for decades.It has been resurrected and digitalized for release. Deutsche Welle indicateded on Sunday it will run in Germany shortly. Nancy on EE listed a site" time.com36782261/night-will-fall that lists channels and times here in the US.

[wyouser]

 lets see if this works better  www.time.come36782261/night-will-fall  .... sorry about that...

[kittensaver]

I have a friend who was there today, and she was posting and tweeting as the speeches were happening. She said she was most moved by the elderly woman (camp survivor) who got up and said: "We need an Eleventh Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Be A Bystander."

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

What is totally bizarre to me is that despite everything there are people out there who deny the Holocaust happened.

What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to engage in to believe that?

[Tennesseer]

While running an errand several hours ago, NPR had an interview on the radio with a now 87-year-old Jewish survivor of Auschwitz.  The survivor was sixteen at the time of the camp liberation.  I missed the first half but found the second half quite moving.  

The survivor spoke of a German woman who, when she saw him, tossed him pieces of bread.  This occurred during the time he was in the camp.  The woman called him 'son' and the then Jewish teen boy called her 'mother'.  After the war ended, he located the German woman who helped keep him alive.  And they communicated and remained friends until her death.

The man also said there was another German woman who would on occasion give him a cup of milk.  The man tried to locate her after the war but was unsuccessful.  

Two both women, he said he was grateful for their kindesses to him during that period.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 27, 2015 16:04:27 GMT -5 wyouser said:

There is some discussion on this on EE this morning in the Earth Muffin thread. There is a film that has lain forgotten since the end of the war. Alfred Hitchkock was asked by the British and Americans with some help from the Russians to put a film together about the camps. It was deemed too graphic for folks and then the cold war began so the project lay forgotten for decades.It has been resurrected and digitalized for release. Deutsche Welle indicateded on Sunday it will run in Germany shortly. Nancy on EE listed a site" time.com36782261/night-will-fall that lists channels and times here in the US.

Wyouser-Your link does not seem to work for me.

NancysSummerSip - If Wyouser is referencing you, do you have the link? Thanks.

[NancysSummerSip]

Jan 27, 2015 17:01:50 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Jan 27, 2015 16:04:27 GMT -5 wyouser said:

There is some discussion on this on EE this morning in the Earth Muffin thread. There is a film that has lain forgotten since the end of the war. Alfred Hitchkock was asked by the British and Americans with some help from the Russians to put a film together about the camps. It was deemed too graphic for folks and then the cold war began so the project lay forgotten for decades.It has been resurrected and digitalized for release. Deutsche Welle indicateded on Sunday it will run in Germany shortly. Nancy on EE listed a site" time.com36782261/night-will-fall that lists channels and times here in the US.

Wyouser-Your link does not seem to work for me.

NancysSummerSip - If Wyouser is referencing you, do you have the link? Thanks.

Try this:

www.nydailynews.com/new-york/hamill-night-fall-reveals-tragic-holocaust-stories-article-1.2090888

[Tennesseer]

Jan 27, 2015 17:19:22 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Jan 27, 2015 17:01:50 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Wyouser-Your link does not seem to work for me.

NancysSummerSip - If Wyouser is referencing you, do you have the link? Thanks.

Try this:

www.nydailynews.com/new-york/hamill-night-fall-reveals-tragic-holocaust-stories-article-1.2090888

Thanks, Nancy. I see it was on last night and on HBO to which I do not subscribe. It will eventually be on other cable channels.

[Deleted]

We are studying the 1940s right now. Listening to Night on the way home...

[wyouser]

Thanks Nancy, your link works.

[zibazinski]

Saw it on tv. Wow.

[Deleted]

zib. You mean the movie? How young would you show it to?

[NastyWoman]

I don't subscribe to HBO but I hope the History channel will eventually pick it up.  I really would like to see it.

As an early boomer growing up in Europe WWII was always close by.  We played in old concrete German bunkers, (mostly just) boys would scrounge around for ammunition along the railroad --- left overs from a blown up ammunition train --- to build their own home-made rockets.  It's a miracle no one got killed that way.  There were families we were not allowed to associate with (collaboraters with the Germans), and then there were some very scary "strange" people that we were told to be always nice and polite to, never mind how terrifying they were.  As I grew up I slowly came to the realization that (a) the "strange" people were camp survivors but no one talked about that, and (b) everyone that was more than 6 years older than I was had been in that war including all my teachers.  After college I worked as a chemist and at least 2 of  my coworkers were Nacht und Nebel camp survivors.  There was a third one that might have been in a camp for different reasons Jew/gypsy/homosexual?  I wouldn't know, and no one talked. 

It took a very long time before talking about this became acceptable and I think a lot of that had to do with the wish of my parents generation to protect their children from fear.  They knew first hand how fast a childhood could be over and how harsh things could become.  So for us there was not only no discussions about first hand experiences, we also did not dive under our desks to prepare for an eventual nuclear attack    Life for a short while was - at least for us - made innocent/carefree again.

[deziloooooo]

Jan 27, 2015 20:36:00 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

I don't subscribe to HBO but I hope the History channel will eventually pick it up.  I really would like to see it.

As an early boomer growing up in Europe WWII was always close by.  We played in old concrete German bunkers, (mostly just) boys would scrounge around for ammunition along the railroad --- left overs from a blown up ammunition train --- to build their own home-made rockets.  It's a miracle no one got killed that way.  There were families we were not allowed to associate with (collaboraters with the Germans), and then there were some very scary "strange" people that we were told to be always nice and polite to, never mind how terrifying they were.  As I grew up I slowly came to the realization that (a) the "strange" people were camp survivors but no one talked about that, and (b) everyone that was more than 6 years older than I was had been in that war including all my teachers.  After college I worked as a chemist and at least 2 of  my coworkers were Nacht und Nebel camp survivors.  There was a third one that might have been in a camp for different reasons Jew/gypsy/homosexual?  I wouldn't know, and no one talked. 

It took a very long time before talking about this became acceptable and I think a lot of that had to do with the wish of my parents generation to protect their children from fear.  They knew first hand how fast a childhood could be over and how harsh things could become.  So for us there was not only no discussions about first hand experiences, we also did not dive under our desks to prepare for an eventual nuclear attack    Life for a short while was - at least for us - made innocent/carefree again.

My next door neighbor..Lil, is a survivor as was her late husband..met after the war, believe in some settlement,  refugee camp or such..Definitely not strange ..He was very successful in what ever and she is a very sharp person..she's 93 today and has some problems now   a bit mental , slowing up but who isn't..but still able to survive on her own...Her son visits and stays for a while and she has a person come in most days..He , son, was a bit annoyed or put out because Mom is losing it a bit but in a discussion the other day I reminded him of her past experiences..also her age today..She and the husband never really discussed the past with the kids I guess..some , survivors, are very vocal , want to be witnesses, then others not at all... I have thought at time, considering how many survivors have led such productive lives , what we as mankind have missed by not having these people around to finish out their lives..how many scientific discoveries, what art we have missed..entertainment ..classical or pop..medical discoveries...As a group these folks are very productive in those things..


I guess one can say that about all who were lost..the Russians lost 20 million, the Germans lost millions during the war as did all the countries who were so involved...but the difference  between the two groups...these people were slated and a plan put into effect with all the power and efficiency of the State to exterminate this group from existence in Europe and almost succeeded , suggested that  three out of four were murdered..infants, young, adult, middle age , seniors...both sexes..

[deziloooooo]

Jan 27, 2015 16:43:40 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

What is totally bizarre to me is that despite everything there are people out there who deny the Holocaust happened.

What kind of mental gymnastics do you have to engage in to believe that?

The commandant ..one who ran the camp for the majority of the time it was up and running..was captured by the Brits at the end of the war and wrote a book about the camp..admitting all ...yes it really happened etc..yet you still have4 those with their agenda who deny and I am sure come up with excuses..lets face it..there always have been and always will have people, groups who really don't care for these folks..and to deny what all right thinking people know is a fact is nothing to them, no matter how idiotic it makes them seem..They probably hang around and like only same thinking people so they are comfortable with these beliefs..
-------------------------------------

www.amazon.com/dp/1842120247/?tag=mh0b-20&hvadid=4162767003&ref=pd_sl_2sae8h8oz0_b


"Self portrait, composed by one of the greatest monsters of all time: Rudolf Hoess, the Commandant at Auschwitz, and the man who knew more than almost anyone about how Nazi Germany implemented the Final Solution. Captured by the British after the war, tried, and sentenced to death, he was ordered to write his autobiography in the weeks between his trial and his execution (which fittingly took place in Auschwitz itself). Hoess apparently enjoyed the task, and the most careful checking by researchers showed he took great pains to tell the truth. The result: a vivid and unforgettable picture of the 20th century's defining and most horrific event"

[zibazinski]

Jan 27, 2015 20:12:49 GMT -5 oped said:

zib. You mean the movie? How young would you show it to?

That's going to depend on the child. Only you can judge your child's maturity. Shows a lot of dead people very graphically. It's very different than the usual holocaust documentary films.

[zibazinski]

My kids had trouble grasping and I admit even I do and I believe it happened, the sheer amount of people that were murdered. I'm hoping the deniers are doing it for that reason.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

I don't see what the big deal about the Holocaust is? What were law abiding citizens supposed to do? Break the law? Shoot cops?

[deziloooooo]

Jan 28, 2015 14:23:55 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I don't see what the big deal about the Holocaust is? What were law abiding citizens supposed to do? Break the law? Shoot cops?

Paul I am thinking that you just like to stir things up...just because ...have really very few original wants or even dislikes...Just loves to  

In some ways a site like this possible, just might, have needs for some one with that type of make up just to keep things moving but I feel that there are things, topics, concerns that transform that possible need and one of those is mocking of anything to do with the Holocaust..the big one circa WW2 or one of the smaller ones , say Cambodia , the khmer Rouge , those type of smaller ones....big no no in my book..hopefully a few others here feel the same way..I would like to articulate a bit heavier but I know mmhmm , Moon runs a tight ship so in deference to them...

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jan 28, 2015 15:16:13 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

Jan 28, 2015 14:23:55 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

I don't see what the big deal about the Holocaust is? What were law abiding citizens supposed to do? Break the law? Shoot cops?

Paul I am thinking that you just like to stir things up...just because ...have really very few original wants or even dislikes...Just loves to  

In some ways a site like this possible, just might, have needs for some one with that type of make up just to keep things moving but I feel that there are things, topics, concerns that transform that possible need and one of those is mocking of anything to do with the Holocaust..the big one circa WW2 or one of the smaller ones , say Cambodia , the khmer Rouge , those type of smaller ones....big no no in my book..hopefully a few others here feel the same way..I would like to articulate a bit heavier but I know mmhmm , Moon runs a tight ship so in deference to them...

I take the holocaust very seriously. I see a world where anti-semitism is on the rise, where we are at the door of the kind of global depression that followed the end of WWI and the Weimar Republic. And I see around me everywhere "rule followers" who are slowly but surely being conditioned to comply with the most outrageous and humiliating orders from uniformed members of the government.

Instead of posting all that, sometimes it's actually easier and more to the point to throw an intellectual grenade out there. The purpose isn't just to stir the pot, the purpose is to shake up people's frame of reference in order to get them to think about things they'd rather not think about carefully and seriously.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jan 27, 2015 10:09:35 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

The anniversary of the liberation of this infamouse place is upon us and the following article seems to express where we are today regarding what happened there quite well..in my opinion at least...


america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/1/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-auschwitz.html
===================================================
What we talk about when we talk about Auschwitz

Our bulwark against another Holocaust is our humanity toward all groups

January 27, 2015 2:00AM ET
by Avraham Burg @avrahamburg


The 70th anniversary of the liberation by the Red Army of the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz-Birkenau is not simply a Jewish event. Even though most of its victims were Jewish, the meaning of the Holocaust goes far beyond the genocidal trauma inflicted on Europe’s Jews. Auschwitz symbolizes a dark moment in the history of the West in which the principles we accept as universal today almost perished along with Europe’s Jews. Absorbing the universal lessons of the Holocaust is vital if we are to prevent similar horrors in our own time, perpetrated against new victims.
============================================

To read rest of the article click on link above...

It's interesting your OP is from al jazeera.  Speaking of growing anti-semitism-- it is mostly as a result of the huge influx of muslims into the West-- and the modern day book burners have banned the words ‘terrorism,’ ‘ilamist’ And ‘jihad’    dailycaller.com/2015/01/27/al-jazeera-america-bans-the-words-terrorism-islamist-and-jihad/

I guess NEVER AGAIN has become, "Well, if possible, it'll probably never happen again, we hope".

[NancysSummerSip]

Jan 28, 2015 14:20:37 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Jan 27, 2015 20:12:49 GMT -5 oped said:

zib. You mean the movie? How young would you show it to?

That's going to depend on the child. Only you can judge your child's maturity. Shows a lot of dead people very graphically. It's very different than the usual holocaust documentary films.

Just FYI: at the National Holocaust Museum in Washington DC, the recommended minimum age for admittance to the permanent exhibit (when I went there several years ago) was 13. That's the age of adulthood in Judaism. Not suggesting that's a "good" or "right" age for a child to view anything overly graphic, just the age that the museum used at that time.

I just checked and the age is now 11.

Children are welcome in other temporary and more child-appropriate parts of the museum at any age. And the museum won't stop you from bringing younger kids into the permanent exhibit, but they will warn you of the graphic nature of them. And if your kids are not respectful and well-behaved, you will be asked to leave.

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Jan 27, 2015 16:09:21 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

I have a friend who was there today, and she was posting and tweeting as the speeches were happening. She said she was most moved by the elderly woman (camp survivor) who got up and said: "We need an Eleventh Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Be A Bystander."

Was it Eva Kor..I know she does a lot of speaking about the Holocaust and Auschwitz in particular.

[Politically_Incorrect12]

Jan 28, 2015 14:23:33 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

My kids had trouble grasping and I admit even I do and I believe it happened, the sheer amount of people that were murdered. I'm hoping the deniers are doing it for that reason.

If you watch the show "Paper Clips" on Netflix, it actually does a decent job at showing how one school did that very thing for it's students.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jan 28, 2015 16:14:45 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Jan 28, 2015 14:20:37 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

That's going to depend on the child. Only you can judge your child's maturity. Shows a lot of dead people very graphically. It's very different than the usual holocaust documentary films.

Just FYI: at the National Holocaust Museum in Washington DC, the recommended minimum age for admittance to the permanent exhibit (when I went there several years ago) was 13. That's the age of adulthood in Judaism. Not suggesting that's a "good" or "right" age for a child to view anything overly graphic, just the age that the museum used at that time.

I just checked and the age is now 11.

Children are welcome in other temporary and more child-appropriate parts of the museum at any age. And the museum won't stop you from bringing younger kids into the permanent exhibit, but they will warn you of the graphic nature of them. And if your kids are not respectful and well-behaved, you will be asked to leave.

Was there an age requirement for the gas chambers?  I've taken my (9 year old at the time) son to the Holocaust museum in Tampa and been very frank about what happened, and how it came to be permitted.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jan 28, 2015 16:16:35 GMT -5 Politically_Incorrect12 said:

Jan 27, 2015 16:09:21 GMT -5 kittensaver said:

I have a friend who was there today, and she was posting and tweeting as the speeches were happening. She said she was most moved by the elderly woman (camp survivor) who got up and said: "We need an Eleventh Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Be A Bystander."

Was it Eva Kor..I know she does a lot of speaking about the Holocaust and Auschwitz in particular.

I call the 11th Commandment: thou shalt not bullshit thyself 

It is very close to a favorite Reagan quote of mine, "Do not be afraid to see what you see".

[NancysSummerSip]

Jan 28, 2015 16:24:52 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jan 28, 2015 16:14:45 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Just FYI: at the National Holocaust Museum in Washington DC, the recommended minimum age for admittance to the permanent exhibit (when I went there several years ago) was 13. That's the age of adulthood in Judaism. Not suggesting that's a "good" or "right" age for a child to view anything overly graphic, just the age that the museum used at that time.

I just checked and the age is now 11.

Children are welcome in other temporary and more child-appropriate parts of the museum at any age. And the museum won't stop you from bringing younger kids into the permanent exhibit, but they will warn you of the graphic nature of them. And if your kids are not respectful and well-behaved, you will be asked to leave.

Was there an age requirement for the gas chambers?  I've taken my (9 year old at the time) son to the Holocaust museum in Tampa and been very frank about what happened, and how it came to be permitted.

Not that I am aware of.

As I said, the museum does not and never did force an age limitation, but they recommend it. And yes, I do know very young children who are more respectful than the adults who were with them. The Museum does have the right to make the recommendation for whatever reason.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Jan 28, 2015 16:30:24 GMT -5 NancysSummerSip said:

Jan 28, 2015 16:24:52 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Was there an age requirement for the gas chambers?  I've taken my (9 year old at the time) son to the Holocaust museum in Tampa and been very frank about what happened, and how it came to be permitted.

Not that I am aware of.

As I said, the museum does not and never did force an age limitation, but they recommend it. And yes, I do know very young children who are more respectful than the adults who were with them. The Museum does have the right to make the recommendation for whatever reason.

I caught that- I agree. 

[deziloooooo]

Jan 28, 2015 16:09:59 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Jan 27, 2015 10:09:35 GMT -5 deziloooooo said:

The anniversary of the liberation of this infamouse place is upon us and the following article seems to express where we are today regarding what happened there quite well..in my opinion at least...


america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/1/what-we-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-auschwitz.html
===================================================
What we talk about when we talk about Auschwitz

Our bulwark against another Holocaust is our humanity toward all groups

January 27, 2015 2:00AM ET
by Avraham Burg @avrahamburg


The 70th anniversary of the liberation by the Red Army of the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz-Birkenau is not simply a Jewish event. Even though most of its victims were Jewish, the meaning of the Holocaust goes far beyond the genocidal trauma inflicted on Europe’s Jews. Auschwitz symbolizes a dark moment in the history of the West in which the principles we accept as universal today almost perished along with Europe’s Jews. Absorbing the universal lessons of the Holocaust is vital if we are to prevent similar horrors in our own time, perpetrated against new victims.
============================================

To read rest of the article click on link above...

It's interesting your OP is from al jazeera.  Speaking of growing anti-semitism-- it is mostly as a result of the huge influx of muslims into the West-- and the modern day book burners have banned the words ‘terrorism,’ ‘ilamist’ And ‘jihad’    dailycaller.com/2015/01/27/al-jazeera-america-bans-the-words-terrorism-islamist-and-jihad/

I guess NEVER AGAIN has become, "Well, if possible, it'll probably never happen again, we hope".

Paul...I take it you are having a problem because the article I posted and comments are being made on the topic of was printed in Al Jazeera english...The author , Avraham Burg..well lets say if he didn't have a problem with Al Jazeera English publishing his article I sure as hell am not either...

"During his time in government in Israel, Avraham Burg served as speaker of the Knesset and chairman of the Jewish Agency. Today he is a writer and political activist in Israel. His books include “The Holocaust Is Over: We Must Rise from Its Ashes.”

The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera America's editorial policy.

More to the point..I have no problem using Al HJazeera English as a media source..have used them for a few years now, same with the Israeli slanted Debka..Both break news  that are ahead of what I would call the more familier western media sources..especially anything dealing with the Middle East , IMHO ..

.