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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 10:34:41 GMT -5
"Back in my day, I learned to tie my shoes when I was three. In the snow, uphill."
I was in kindergarten when I learned, and I am older than you. So maybe you were an advanced shoe-tie-er, or maybe I was slow. My kids learned when they were 5-6 and both have plenty of shoes that tie. Especially the boy who does sports. All the cleats tie, as do basketball shoes. I don't think not knowing how to tie a shoe at 3 is the signal that kids are helpless today more so than ever. This is how things go so terribly wrong. We have some picture of what we did - accurate or not, normal or not. And then we cherry pick those things and assign fault to an entire generation. Sure, my kid's school required supervision at the bus stop as long as they were students (up to 4th grade) which was ridiculous compared to me walking to the bus stop alone as a Kindergartener, but I didn't learn algebra until 8th grade, and my kids started the basics in 3rd grade. Hard to tell which is superior. I'm not saying he's doomed, I'm just saying that I'm noticing these "milestone" differences between my generation and his. But then again things are very different. He may not be able to put his shoes on right, but he can play Angry Birds Star Wars on PS3 (and he doesn't totally suck) and can navigate a tablet (open/close programs, slide to the next screen) with ease. He's also getting interested in addition. We didn't have velcro.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 28, 2015 10:38:27 GMT -5
"Back in my day, I learned to tie my shoes when I was three. In the snow, uphill."
I was in kindergarten when I learned, and I am older than you. So maybe you were an advanced shoe-tie-er, or maybe I was slow. My kids learned when they were 5-6 and both have plenty of shoes that tie. Especially the boy who does sports. All the cleats tie, as do basketball shoes. I don't think not knowing how to tie a shoe at 3 is the signal that kids are helpless today more so than ever. This is how things go so terribly wrong. We have some picture of what we did - accurate or not, normal or not. And then we cherry pick those things and assign fault to an entire generation. Sure, my kid's school required supervision at the bus stop as long as they were students (up to 4th grade) which was ridiculous compared to me walking to the bus stop alone as a Kindergartener, but I didn't learn algebra until 8th grade, and my kids started the basics in 3rd grade. Hard to tell which is superior. I'm not saying he's doomed, I'm just saying that I'm noticing these "milestone" differences between my generation and his. But then again things are very different. He may not be able to put his shoes on right, but he can play Angry Birds Star Wars on PS3 (and he doesn't totally suck) and can navigate a tablet (open/close programs, slide to the next screen) with ease. He's also getting interested in addition. I question your fact that the shoe tying milestone was three years old. Is this based on your recall of tying your shoes at 3? Was that really normal at the time? I just think that milestone has always been closer to 5 or 6.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 28, 2015 10:41:04 GMT -5
It takes me about 15 minutes to do a shirt. you got some big ass shirts, buddy. I don't think I've taken more than 5 minutes per shirt. Hmmmm, maybe I should start ironing for money...? I am just not good at it. Lining up the arms so I don't get creases in the wrong spot, figuring out how to do the shoulders and upper chest, getting around the buttons. They all take me a long time.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 28, 2015 10:48:34 GMT -5
I think my full size ironing board is in my great aunt's shed. I didn't know that until a couple of months ago, I thought it was totally gone. I have a table top one that might get used once a year at most. I know where my iron is, but I'm not sure I can reach it. That aunt though, she irons table cloths and everything else. I can't imagine caring enough to do napkins. :SI can't imagine having the TIME! I feel like it's a victory if the clothes get washed/dried and put away the same day. Well, she's 96, she doesn't have much else to do anyway, but she's ALWAYS done that. I know she was raised in a different time and all but I think she can quit now.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 10:49:33 GMT -5
I can't imagine having the TIME! I feel like it's a victory if the clothes get washed/dried and put away the same day. Well, she's 96, she doesn't have much else to do anyway, but she's ALWAYS done that. I know she was raised in a different time and all but I think she can quit now. Well, then she's got even less time!
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 28, 2015 10:52:19 GMT -5
Well, she's 96, she doesn't have much else to do anyway, but she's ALWAYS done that. I know she was raised in a different time and all but I think she can quit now. Well, then she's got even less time! You'd think, but she gets up at the crack of dawn every day and "officially" goes to bed at 11. (She'll doze off in her chair sometimes) She just can't not be doing something. Ironing is less scary than her out doing yard work or moving furniture so maybe I should not worry about it. Yesterday she moved a medium sized dresser out of the room it's sitting in, to her dining room I think. My parents are taking it to my sister (out of town) this weekend. Aunt just couldn't leave it until they came to get it. She wants it gone yesterday.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 28, 2015 10:52:43 GMT -5
I'm not saying he's doomed, I'm just saying that I'm noticing these "milestone" differences between my generation and his. But then again things are very different. He may not be able to put his shoes on right, but he can play Angry Birds Star Wars on PS3 (and he doesn't totally suck) and can navigate a tablet (open/close programs, slide to the next screen) with ease. He's also getting interested in addition. I question your fact that the shoe tying milestone was three years old. Is this based on your recall of tying your shoes at 3? Was that really normal at the time? I just think that milestone has always been closer to 5 or 6. maybe I wasn't 3, but my estimation is based on the details surrounding the memory I have of tying them. Fine, I'll change it to 3-5 because it was definitely before I started school and it was definitely while my mom and dad were together. I was also told I did a few things earlier than normal, so maybe that was one of them.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 28, 2015 10:53:40 GMT -5
you got some big ass shirts, buddy. I don't think I've taken more than 5 minutes per shirt. Hmmmm, maybe I should start ironing for money...? I am just not good at it. Lining up the arms so I don't get creases in the wrong spot, figuring out how to do the shoulders and upper chest, getting around the buttons. They all take me a long time. oh, I don't do it perfectly - I just make it look presentable.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 10:56:44 GMT -5
My 10yo can't tie shoes very well (poor fine motor skills). It's pretty hard at his size to find shoes without laces (which are required for PE days). Yeah, he wears Vans most days, but I definitely feel the pressure to improve his skills. On days with laces, I usually end up doing it for him because we are racing out the door. Seriously? Is he embarrassed to have mom tie his shoes for him, or does he think it's normal? I would have been mortified at that age if anyone found out. I'll bet I was still helping older son at 9 or 10. He could do it, but he was excruciatingly slow. He has the worst fine motor skills you can imagine. Really bad. He's 12 now and I don't ever do it now, but he leaves his shoes loose and slips in and out of them instead of tying and untying.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 11:11:35 GMT -5
SK said the same thing, just wondering, does it stop them from doing other stuff with friends? I'm thinking video games and whatnot, which are pretty big with that age group. He never had a video game before he was 10. Someone suggested that that would help, so I got him an Xbox. What a f#%$$ mistake that was!
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 28, 2015 11:26:35 GMT -5
The Ironing comments are funny to me and a bit timely. I have an order from Amazon coming that includes an Ironing board wall kit so I can hang my board, iron, and starch all in the laundry room in the new home to make it easier to access.
I used to Iron all of Dad's work shirts and pants every Saturday morning. Just set up the ironing board in front of the TV and go into autopilot.
Now DD is learning how to Iron. I started her with napkins and some of DH's old cotton shirts that can take a bit more abuse. Since she's starting to get into fashion a bit more she likes to have her shirts nice and tidy - no way in hell am I paying to have a cleaner press a 12yo's shirt - so yep she's learning to iron. She likes how neat and crisp they look and I'm starting to show her how to put seams in the shirt sleeves if she wants to.
(Yes I use cloth napkins all the time, and yes - they do get ironed more often than not - don't judge)
Just pop on the head phones, save up a pile and plow through it. In a way it's kinda therapeutic.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 28, 2015 11:30:58 GMT -5
The Ironing comments are funny to me and a bit timely. I have an order from Amazon coming that includes an Ironing board wall kit so I can hang my board, iron, and starch all in the laundry room in the new home to make it easier to access. I used to Iron all of Dad's work shirts and pants every Saturday morning. Just set up the ironing board in front of the TV and go into autopilot. Now DD is learning how to Iron. I started her with napkins and some of DH's old cotton shirts that can take a bit more abuse. Since she's starting to get into fashion a bit more she likes to have her shirts nice and tidy - no way in hell am I paying to have a cleaner press a 12yo's shirt - so yep she's learning to iron. She likes how neat and crisp they look and I'm starting to show her how to put seams in the shirt sleeves if she wants to. (Yes I use cloth napkins all the time, and yes - they do get ironed more often than not - don't judge) Just pop on the head phones, save up a pile and plow through it. In a way it's kinda therapeutic. Yes but so is the Janet Evanovich theory of ironing as documented in one of the Plum novels. It goes roughly like this: "all clothing that needs ironing goes into the basket. Where it sits until the basket is full. At which point, it goes to the Salvation Army. Presto! No ironing!"
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jan 28, 2015 11:32:06 GMT -5
I took our son a few times at the Boy Scouts and came out completely dissapointed and somewhat scared! Was not only the fact that the adults were leading them arround so much that the kids were kinda confused but was also the whole ritual at the beginning and end of their meetings! Down to the last detail including the handkerchief. All of it reminded me of growing up in communism going through the same things. And I mean all of them including the uniforms and rituals so it poped into my head that in "the land of free" we are preparing and instructing a small group of nothing else but future communists! That's the reason my parents did not allow any of us to join the boy/girl scouts. It reminded them (but especially my mom) too much of what they saw happening just across the border (~10miles away) with the Hitler Jugend. No child of theirs was ever going to be brainwashed like that... I'm really curious about all the hitler, uniform, ritual comments with regards to scouts. Maybe we just have an awesome troop, but I have NEVER once felt like my kid was being brainwashed. But ours is not run by a church either, so maybe that is the difference. In regards to the uniform, the only comments I have ever heard our adult leaders say is "respect the uniform" which means they are not allowed to act like teenage asshats if they are wearing it. No teasing, bullying or otherwise "un scout like" behavior.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Jan 28, 2015 11:43:10 GMT -5
My 10yo can't tie shoes very well (poor fine motor skills). It's pretty hard at his size to find shoes without laces (which are required for PE days). Yeah, he wears Vans most days, but I definitely feel the pressure to improve his skills. On days with laces, I usually end up doing it for him because we are racing out the door. Seriously? Is he embarrassed to have mom tie his shoes for him, or does he think it's normal? I would have been mortified at that age if anyone found out. Formerly SK's son is autistic. She has had issues with him since he was a child. Plus she is dealing with enormous problems with her younger child's identity issues. Give her a break.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 11:45:29 GMT -5
Seriously? Is he embarrassed to have mom tie his shoes for him, or does he think it's normal? I would have been mortified at that age if anyone found out. Formerly SK's son is autistic. She has had issues with him since he was a child. Plus she is dealing with enormous problems with her younger child's identity issues. Give her a break. You can pick on mine though. He can't do a somersault either.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 28, 2015 11:46:48 GMT -5
Didn't know he was autistic. My bad. Send him a kendema to make up for it.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Jan 28, 2015 11:55:29 GMT -5
Formerly SK's son is autistic. She has had issues with him since he was a child. Plus she is dealing with enormous problems with her younger child's identity issues. Give her a break. You can pick on mine though. He can't do a somersault either. My 10yo can't do somersault either. My attitude about it is meh. Now you can pick on me
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 12:00:44 GMT -5
Somersault or cartwheel? Cartwheels are pretty tough. Teaching a somersault is pretty easy, but everyone makes it complicated. Tell your kid they're going to try yoga with mom. Do some stretching and a few yoga type things. Then tell them to stand up straight, straighten their arms over there head, then slowly bend only at the waist until they can put their palms flat on the ground as close as possible to their feet. When they get into that position you shove their ass, hard. Presto, somersault. Somersault. And there is a whole thread on it out there somewhere, but this has been an ongoing "issue" for him for years. It ain't happening. But, I don't think it's from babying him. Son #2 is 4 and a half and almost has the shoe tying down already and can do somersaults like there is no tomorrow. He can dance too. Kids are just different.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jan 28, 2015 12:01:26 GMT -5
Can we throw training wheels into this mess? My 4 y/o has ridden without them (for seconds) but demands they are put back on. Last summer he told me two wheels when he's 5. I mentioned recently that means this summer he'll be on two wheels. Well, I could see the wheels in his brain spinning trying to lawyer out of it ... but he didn't say anything. I know I know, he should have been riding on two wheels a couple weeks after walking.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Jan 28, 2015 12:04:15 GMT -5
yogiii, if it helps you, both of my kids only started riding without training wheels around age 6-7. I think it was so, not because of lack of ability, but rather lack of confidence. Once they got that confidence (on their own) they flew by.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 28, 2015 12:04:57 GMT -5
DS has a little bike that the ILs gave him, but I don't know why. H doesn't know how to ride, his mom never learned, and his dad's a blob. I have to somehow get it to the house since obviously it can only be me who can teach him.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 28, 2015 12:07:57 GMT -5
Took me a long time to ride without training wheels. I had a major problem with balance. I had a heck of time learning to tie my shoes and I still had L & R written on my shoes in second grade. I can do a somersault but my kindergarten teacher wanted my parents to hold me back because I couldn't skip (they said no) Yet I still somehow managed to become a fully functioning independent adult. I think a lot more goes into it than when you learn to ride a bike, tie your shoes, etc.
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CarolinaKat
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Post by CarolinaKat on Jan 28, 2015 12:09:10 GMT -5
That's the reason my parents did not allow any of us to join the boy/girl scouts. It reminded them (but especially my mom) too much of what they saw happening just across the border (~10miles away) with the Hitler Jugend. No child of theirs was ever going to be brainwashed like that... I'm really curious about all the hitler, uniform, ritual comments with regards to scouts. Maybe we just have an awesome troop, but I have NEVER once felt like my kid was being brainwashed. But ours is not run by a church either, so maybe that is the difference. In regards to the uniform, the only comments I have ever heard our adult leaders say is "respect the uniform" which means they are not allowed to act like teenage asshats if they are wearing it. No teasing, bullying or otherwise "un scout like" behavior. Uniforms freak me out. I don't remember ever having to wear them to scouts ever though, only to 'formal events' which we hardly ever did. We wore our sashes, but not a whole uniform. I still maintain uniforms are creepy...
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jan 28, 2015 12:09:45 GMT -5
yogiii, if it helps you, both of my kids only started riding without training wheels around age 6-7. I think it was so, not because of lack of ability, but rather lack of confidence. Once they got that confidence (on their own) they flew by. Confidence is big with him, so is peer pressure but he's also not the most coordinated guy so I certainly didn't expect him to be an early rider. It's a tough balance because he's the kind of kid that needs a little nudge to get him going but if you nudge too far, you ruin it for him and he just doesn't want to do whatever it is you were bothering him about. He told me the other day he wanted a bike with a kickstand. I told him he could pick out a brand new bike when he's riding on two wheels, whenever that happens. He didn't say anything, but I could tell he was weighing his options.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Jan 28, 2015 12:11:30 GMT -5
Can we throw training wheels into this mess? My 4 y/o has ridden without them (for seconds) but demands they are put back on. Last summer he told me two wheels when he's 5. I mentioned recently that means this summer he'll be on two wheels. Well, I could see the wheels in his brain spinning trying to lawyer out of it ... but he didn't say anything. I know I know, he should have been riding on two wheels a couple weeks after walking. DD dumped hers when she was three. Made my aunt (the ironer of napkins) take them off the bike at her house and took off. I don't take credit for it in any way except for the fact that her main bike had uneven training wheels so she learned to balance anyway while having the safety net. My laziness helped her learn fast. Yep, that's it. Her younger brother, OTOH, had them years longer.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 12:12:34 GMT -5
My 4 year old has one of those balance bikes with no pedals. Not sure if that's going to help with the transition to a regular bike but we're going to skip the training wheels altogether.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 28, 2015 12:12:46 GMT -5
Getting rid of training wheels is a pain in the ass. It's overcoming the fear that's the hard part. Once they do they'll be riding a bike in like 30 minutes. Ours learned during the summer she was 5. It happened over about three days. She went from looking terrible on training wheels to looking like a pro.
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jan 28, 2015 12:13:26 GMT -5
Can we throw training wheels into this mess? My 4 y/o has ridden without them (for seconds) but demands they are put back on. Last summer he told me two wheels when he's 5. I mentioned recently that means this summer he'll be on two wheels. Well, I could see the wheels in his brain spinning trying to lawyer out of it ... but he didn't say anything. I know I know, he should have been riding on two wheels a couple weeks after walking. DD dumped hers when she was three. Made my aunt (the ironer of napkins) take them off the bike at her house and took off. I don't take credit for it in any way except for the fact that her main bike had uneven training wheels so she learned to balance anyway while having the safety net. My laziness helped her learn fast. Yep, that's it. Her younger brother, OTOH, had them years longer. My DD is much more coordinated, plus she totally tries to compete with him. I have no doubt that next summer when she's 2 she'll be trying to take off on his bike, training wheels or not. He'll definitely have to be a spy for me when she's older. She is going to be such trouble ...
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yogiii
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Post by yogiii on Jan 28, 2015 12:15:15 GMT -5
My 4 year old has one of those balance bikes with no pedals. Not sure if that's going to help with the transition to a regular bike but we're going to skip the training wheels altogether. I've heard they help a lot but I'm too lazy to start with a different method
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 28, 2015 12:15:16 GMT -5
Getting rid of training wheels is a pain in the ass. It's overcoming the fear thirst that's the hard part. Once they do they'll be riding a bike in like 30 minutes. Fixed. DH had been trying to teach DD how to ride her bike without training wheels since she was 5. When she was 71/2 I finally said I'd take her to the park to practice (we didn't have anywhere near the house - rural with busy road no sidewalks). We had the bumps, topples, false starts etc. She kept trying to give up and distract me. When she asked for a drink of water I told her she could have some AFTER she rode her bike non-stop around small area in the park. It took about an hour for her to figure out I was serious!!! and she'd never have anything to drink until she rode that damn bike. THEN she got focused, and after a damaged bush or two finally figured it out. A week later she was riding on the bike trails with us - sans the training wheels. Yea, mom of the year - that's me.
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