ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 22, 2015 11:38:37 GMT -5
Most of the arguing in our house is with the kids. Wife and I don't argue too much. Both of us are passive aggressive.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jan 22, 2015 11:39:27 GMT -5
I think DH and I have raised our voices to each other maybe 5x in the 15 years we've been together. That's not to say we don't occasionally disagree, but we don't get hyper emotional about it - we just talk through the issue to find a logical compromise. I have no idea if our kids are aware of when we have these discussions, but I don't see how we are ruining them by not yelling at each other.
I am totally jealous of people who never feel the need to raise their voices or fight. My temper is probably 100x better than it used to be but I wish it could just disappear entirely. DH's too. We don't raise our voices often, and it's usually over relatively quickly when we do, but it's very intense and upsetting and not something I want Babybird to grow up hearing
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jan 22, 2015 11:39:53 GMT -5
We don't really argue at all....we actually don't really even have many disagreements. I guess a lot of people might have arguments over money, but I handle all of that and my wife trusts my judgement.
The only place we may have disagreements is course of action for our kids, but that's more of a discussion rather than a disagreement.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jan 22, 2015 11:42:54 GMT -5
So here's a related question: If you live in a small house and don't believe in the kids listening to you argue/fight (raised voices, yelling) but it happens now and then, how do you avoid them listening? Hats off if you have the presence of mind to immediately go outside when you feel things escalating, because I've never been able to master that trick. Anyway, even if you go outside, kids are sneaky and not above opening a window to try and hear what's being said.
And supposing your kids do hear you arguing, what do you say to them about it later? Especially if the subject matter wasn't appropriate for them. Do you bring it up and talk about it or just ignore it?
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Jan 22, 2015 11:48:54 GMT -5
Otherwise you just grow up with the idea that adults are wildly unpredictable and can fly off the handle at any time for any reason and there's nothing you can do about it. This either makes you really really anxious OR causes you to learn to not even consider other people's feelings when you do stuff cause it's all so random it doesn't matter...
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jan 22, 2015 11:54:41 GMT -5
Otherwise you just grow up with the idea that adults are wildly unpredictable and can fly off the handle at any time for any reason and there's nothing you can do about it. Sometime recently my two kids were fighting and DS1 made an angry lunge across the room towards DS2. I tried to stop him by grabbing his forearm, but I was off by half a second and instead of cupping his arm with my hand, I clawed him with my fingernails. Yes, I ended up scratching him and we had to get a couple bandaids. DS1 cried but recovered in 2 minutes. DS2 was scarred for two days. He just couldn't get over the fact I physically moved so quickly and that it hurt his brother. It really scared him because he had never seen me do that before. We had to have several conversations about it to settle his psyche.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 22, 2015 11:57:47 GMT -5
Ok, you don't want to scream and throw things all the time. But I think its essential people argue in front of their kids. My friends husband honestly thinks his parents had a relationship like the 50s shows he loves... He is always nostalgic for a different age which, no matter how much we talk he doesn't see never really existed. They never disagreed in front of him and it set up wildly unrealistic expectations. I totally agree with this. My boyfriend in college never saw his parents fight or argue and as such he didn't handle disagreement/arguments very well. I'm sure his parents had these issues they just never did in front of their kids and I think it did him a huge disservice. I think it's important for kids to understand that disagreements happen but also to model good conflict resolution. Violent and physical fights (which shouldn't be happening anyway among mature adults) are a definite no-no however. But, but, but we're supposed to present a united front. And never let the kids see the chinks in that front because they're start to play us against each other and it will destroy the family!!!!!!
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Jan 22, 2015 12:02:32 GMT -5
No, you pick a fight with him so you can...make up later. Duh! Can u explain to my DW how the "make up later" works? I believe our children saw us arguing a few times, raising voices and such but I believe that is in fact helpful to them to understand that there is no perfection no matter how hard you look for. They get it I assume because I had DS a couple times telling me when I got home: " watch out! Mom is grumpy! " so I'm just tiptoeing unless I'm in a mood to bitch myself about some stupid shit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 12:03:55 GMT -5
First ex and I never fought. We agreed on everything it seems and if we didn't, it wasn't a fight we just talked it through. Second ex...other extreme. Very bad fights sometimes. I don't believe in hiding kids from all disagreements, because they need to learn conflict resolution, but some stuff nobody should have to see.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 22, 2015 12:15:19 GMT -5
arguing takes far too much work.
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travelnut11
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Post by travelnut11 on Jan 22, 2015 12:26:39 GMT -5
I totally agree with this. My boyfriend in college never saw his parents fight or argue and as such he didn't handle disagreement/arguments very well. I'm sure his parents had these issues they just never did in front of their kids and I think it did him a huge disservice. I think it's important for kids to understand that disagreements happen but also to model good conflict resolution. Violent and physical fights (which shouldn't be happening anyway among mature adults) are a definite no-no however. But, but, but we're supposed to present a united front. And never let the kids see the chinks in that front because they're start to play us against each other and it will destroy the family!!!!!! Ha! I expect to be more of a "reality-based" mom. Probably too much reality.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jan 22, 2015 12:27:37 GMT -5
No, you pick a fight with him so you can...make up later. Duh! Can u explain to my DW how the "make up later" works? I believe our children saw us arguing a few times, raising voices and such but I believe that is in fact helpful to them to understand that there is no perfection no matter how hard you look for. They get it I assume because I had DS a couple times telling me when I got home: " watch out! Mom is grumpy! " so I'm just tiptoeing unless I'm in a mood to bitch myself about some stupid shit. - not without getting banned or at least sent on vacation for awhile...
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jan 22, 2015 12:38:28 GMT -5
I thought I did a good job of not fighting in front of the kids, but I was wrong. A week or so ago, one of my kids recounted an argument between Baby Daddy and myself in detail. We broke up over 10 years ago when they were 5 and 6. I didn't even remember the fight they did.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jan 22, 2015 12:48:28 GMT -5
So here's a related question: If you live in a small house and don't believe in the kids listening to you argue/fight (raised voices, yelling) but it happens now and then, how do you avoid them listening? Hats off if you have the presence of mind to immediately go outside when you feel things escalating, because I've never been able to master that trick. Anyway, even if you go outside, kids are sneaky and not above opening a window to try and hear what's being said. And supposing your kids do hear you arguing, what do you say to them about it later? Especially if the subject matter wasn't appropriate for them. Do you bring it up and talk about it or just ignore it? I think Raeoflyte has mentioned this before, but DH and I try to settle some of our disagreements via text/email. Since he is an avoider/retreater and I am more aggressive assertive it is easier to have an actual discussion over text than in person. Otherwise it is 90% me talking and 10% DH grunting and looking sad. Plus we are both better able to express ourselves in writing than we are verbally. A final bonus, having to read something before you hit "send" can minimize the number of ad hominem attacks or other comments that aren't really constructive. The "kids are sneaky" statement reminded me of my childhood... I used to put a drinking glass up to the wall (if you put the open end on the wall, you can hear everything in the next room!) to listen to my parents' arguments. There was never anything too juicy or PG13, but my dad would go off on these totally illogical rants and my mom would get in some good zingers. I always rooted for Mom. It was entertaining, but probably not the best hobby...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2015 12:50:19 GMT -5
My earliest memory included a broken door.
That's not the kind of thing I'm advocating however.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 22, 2015 12:55:05 GMT -5
My ex and I disagreed about paying the kids for grades. I told the kids we disagreed and why. My side and his side. Then I told them it wasn't as important to me as it was to him, therefore I was going along with his point of view. Hope they learned that because the rest was not so mature.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 22, 2015 12:58:23 GMT -5
Our last major, uncomfortable disagreement in front of DS was over Metro land planning policies. Pretty much as stupid and irrelevant as you can get. In my defense I was hangry. And they wanted to put an Applebees next to the dog park!
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jan 22, 2015 13:21:48 GMT -5
Our last major, uncomfortable disagreement in front of DS was over Metro land planning policies. Pretty much as stupid and irrelevant as you can get. In my defense I was hangry. I like the term hangry! DH will get low blood sugar and it makes him hangry.
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Firebird
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Post by Firebird on Jan 22, 2015 14:21:14 GMT -5
I used to put a drinking glass up to the wall (if you put the open end on the wall, you can hear everything in the next room!) to listen to my parents' arguments.
I thought that was a myth! I tried it numerous times and it never worked. Maybe I just have sucky hearing.
Hangry = awesome term! That's going in my personal dictionary.
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Sunnyday
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Post by Sunnyday on Jan 22, 2015 14:23:02 GMT -5
Our last major, uncomfortable disagreement in front of DS was over Metro land planning policies. Pretty much as stupid and irrelevant as you can get. In my defense I was hangry. I like the term hangry! DH will get low blood sugar and it makes him hangry. Yes, my husband and my son get "hangry" too. It's really frustrating that I need to have dinner set on the table at 5 or my toddler will go berserk. And no, I can't provide a snack before dinner, he then won't eat dinner. I cannot eat dinner at 5, but I believe in eating dinner together, so I have been skipping lunch for over six months now.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Jan 22, 2015 15:04:14 GMT -5
I used to put a drinking glass up to the wall (if you put the open end on the wall, you can hear everything in the next room!) to listen to my parents' arguments.
I thought that was a myth! I tried it numerous times and it never worked. Maybe I just have sucky hearing. Hangry = awesome term! That's going in my personal dictionary. You must have had thicker walls than we did Maybe that should be part of your new home search! If you can't hear yelling or loud talking through the wall with a glass, Babybird probably can't either. Problem solved
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jan 22, 2015 15:47:21 GMT -5
I think DH and I have raised our voices to each other maybe 5x in the 15 years we've been together. That's not to say we don't occasionally disagree, but we don't get hyper emotional about it - we just talk through the issue to find a logical compromise. I have no idea if our kids are aware of when we have these discussions, but I don't see how we are ruining them by not yelling at each other.
I am totally jealous of people who never feel the need to raise their voices or fight. My temper is probably 100x better than it used to be but I wish it could just disappear entirely. DH's too. We don't raise our voices often, and it's usually over relatively quickly when we do, but it's very intense and upsetting and not something I want Babybird to grow up hearing See my DH and myself both have tempers, but they are almost never directed at each other. We each tend to lose patience with the kids, DS in particular. That is tough. I'll often have to put myself in time out because I'm not getting through to him. It is tough because yelling just makes DS start crying, but he doesn't think you are serious unless you raise your voice ... oh well that really quiet deadly voice works too, but then he starts crying as well. So the end result is the same. Other than I feel better yelling.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Jan 22, 2015 15:57:17 GMT -5
I really haven't argued with DH (married 9 years). We have discussions about stuff, but philosophically we are similar enough and we respect each others wishes enough that we don't argue. One of us will bring up something and we'll talk about it, but a decision hadn't been reached when the topic was brought up. So we gauge how strongly the other person feels about the topic and usually whoever feels more strongly, the person who feels less strongly will defer. I will get emotional about stuff, but not as a weapon to use against him and he knows that. I certainly cried I finally brought up that I wanted to move because I didn't think it was fair to him to move. He knew my tears were more a culmination of everything going on and not just honey we have to move. He surprised the crap out of me and said lets go for it. We just try to keep the lines of communication open - throw out ideas instead of decisions. I tend to phrase things, well what do you think about this. I do often have to bring up things. But we both grew up in homes that didn't argue or fight. My therapist told me it was unhealthy, but I don't want to argue with my husband. We do have discussions about important things in front of the kids. We've talked A LOT about moving in front of DS. What we like in houses, what we think about different areas. I think we are going to disagree when we actually buy a house because I feel more strongly about schools and he feels more strongly about being a little ways out of town. But I'm not going to worry about it now. We both work hard and pitch in a lot. If one of us is sitting on our rears, the other one usually realizes they need a break and it isn't an issue.
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Formerly SK
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Post by Formerly SK on Jan 22, 2015 20:54:37 GMT -5
I totally agree with this. My boyfriend in college never saw his parents fight or argue and as such he didn't handle disagreement/arguments very well. I'm sure his parents had these issues they just never did in front of their kids and I think it did him a huge disservice. I think it's important for kids to understand that disagreements happen but also to model good conflict resolution. Violent and physical fights (which shouldn't be happening anyway among mature adults) are a definite no-no however. But, but, but we're supposed to present a united front. And never let the kids see the chinks in that front because they're start to play us against each other and it will destroy the family!!!!!! Actually, that's a good point I hadn't thought of. The only time I've forced myself to "not fight in front of the kids" is a couple times when DH made a call involving the kids that I disagreed with. But, I would never undermine him in front of the kids so I kept my opinion to myself until they were in bed and then we talked it out so we had a united strategy going forward. My parents were AWFUL about constantly undermining each other to us kids so I'm really sensitive to that.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Jan 22, 2015 23:20:12 GMT -5
So here's a related question: If you live in a small house and don't believe in the kids listening to you argue/fight (raised voices, yelling) but it happens now and then, how do you avoid them listening? Hats off if you have the presence of mind to immediately go outside when you feel things escalating, because I've never been able to master that trick. Anyway, even if you go outside, kids are sneaky and not above opening a window to try and hear what's being said. And supposing your kids do hear you arguing, what do you say to them about it later? Especially if the subject matter wasn't appropriate for them. Do you bring it up and talk about it or just ignore it? My neighbors go sit in their car to fight. She also goes to sit in her car if she has a cigarette. Now that I say this I wonder if they have sex in the car...somehow they have managed to have 6 kids in a house that can't have more than 3 or 4 bedrooms and where they are totally cool with cosleeping.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Jan 22, 2015 23:46:38 GMT -5
We don't argue or fight, but we do disagree. DH and I both grew up in "yelling" houses and both sets of parents divorced long ago. So we know what we DON'T want to do in front of DS. We disagree and discuss. If we get cranky, we leave the room, not the house. In the rare instance that I do get upset, I can't talk. It's weird- a thousand thoughts fly through my head, but none come out. DH has just learned that he needs to wait until I get to the point that I can talk. Sometimes it's hours, sometimes a day. He'll just walk by and say "ready" if he gets a head shake "no" he walks on. When he gets a " not yet" then he knows I'm getting closer. It used to frustrate him and I had to explain to him that it wasn't a choice, I just couldn't do it.
Strange thing is, DS is the same way. The first time DS did it, I went and hugged my husband for putting up with me all the times I have done it to him. DS seems to come out of it quicker. Must be a guy thing.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Jan 23, 2015 0:11:14 GMT -5
I think it's sort of ridiculous to think that your children aren't going to learn that arguing isn't the end of the world unless they see their parents argue. Kids learn a lot of things in this world eventually, but that doesn't mean they have to hear it in their home where they should feel safe. I never heard the word "f**k" in my home, but I someone learned it was a word!
You just might be scaring the crap out of your kids arguing in front of them and I'm not sure it worth it to "teach" them a lesson they are going to find out all on their own. They find out early they have arguments with their friends, stop speaking for awhile, and then go back to being friends. They don't have to see mommy and daddy arguing to learn that.
My parents rarely fought but when they did, it scared me. I had several friends who parents had divorced. I didn't want it to happen to my mom and dad and it frightened me when they did argue. It just might be scaring your kids, too. Sure. People get divorced and I don't think it's any easier on those kids if they are slowly indoctrinated into the process by witnessing lots of arguments.
I understand the philosophy of teaching them a lesson....one they will understand when they are older. But while they are little, they might be just scared. I couldn't knowingly do that to my kids and then pretend it was somehow good for them. I still remember being afraid when my parents had a huge argument over a family matter. I remember it like it was yesterday and I remember sitting on my bed crying because I was sure I was going to have to live in two different houses like my friends. Not the end of the world, of course, and I understand that now...but I didn't then.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jan 23, 2015 0:33:00 GMT -5
Didn't read the thread yet....
I failed miserably at this. My husband actually is excellent at not arguing in front of the kids.
There was a time that I think it was really REALLY affecting my oldest.
I really did tone it down a lot since then.
Now I am working on not being too open about my feelings about my IL's....
I have always apologized for yelling to my kids, whether it was done in front of them or at them. And I also use it as example when I try to teach them how to handle their emotions. Hitting each other, throwing toys, etc.
The jury is still out on the results.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jan 23, 2015 0:38:47 GMT -5
Oh and we are fairly open about not being a "united front". Kids know that there are some things that we disagree on, but they also know that once one parent gave them an answer, it won't change.
Flu shots and the way to cook eggs comes to mind.....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2015 3:16:53 GMT -5
I think its a little ridiculous to think that all couples who argue will get divorced...
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