djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 19, 2015 16:38:23 GMT -5
so, no problem with killing then. got it. edit: i don't do the Bible Board, and i was not looking for a Biblical response. a simple "you can be a good Christian and still believe in the DP" would suffice. I thought 'Thou Shall Not Kill' was just a part of our supposed Christian-Judeo American laws. That's what many folks here claim. And its frequently hanging on the walls of/or carved on monuments in or outside many U.S. court houses. there is another possible response, and a more honest one: if the Bible were clear on these things, Christians would not argue about them.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 19, 2015 16:39:34 GMT -5
I thought 'Thou Shall Not Kill' was just a part of our supposed Christian-Judeo American laws. That's what many folks here claim. And its frequently hanging on the walls of/or carved on monuments in or outside many U.S. court houses. there is another possible response, and a more honest one: if the Bible were clear on these things, Christians would not argue about them. Meh. What did the writers know about the world 20 billion years ago.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jan 19, 2015 16:42:36 GMT -5
Actually may have of messed up my point- but I find it odd that so many people were attacking Islam for their punishments yet are silent about ours. We kill more of our citizens then they do- just do it differently.
Wonder if out pro-death penalty folks would get on board with amputations, stonings and the rest of it....
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jan 19, 2015 17:20:54 GMT -5
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 19, 2015 17:27:45 GMT -5
Thou Shalt Not Kill; explains it in the first two paragraphs. If you want to reply to this post, do it on the Religion sub-board. We're not allowed to discuss scripture. so, no problem with killing then. got it. edit: i don't do the Bible Board, and i was not looking for a Biblical response. a simple "you can be a good Christian and still believe in the DP" would suffice. It would suffice, but actually reading the suggested paragraphs would provide you with a concise explanation of why you can be a good Christian and still believe in the DP. It's a "teach a man to fish" kind of thing.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jan 19, 2015 17:31:50 GMT -5
Teach a man he can be legally killed?
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jan 19, 2015 18:31:32 GMT -5
Only because of due process- and enough people in this country hate it because it takes so long to execute someone- so maybe they would prefer a Saudi style justice system to speed things up?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Jan 19, 2015 18:37:18 GMT -5
Only because of due process- and enough people in this country hate it because it takes so long to execute someone- so maybe they would prefer a Saudi style justice system to speed things up? I'm going to guess they (we?) wouldn't. In Saudi, beheadings were conducted on Friday mornings. An announcement would be made on television if there was to be a beheading in your town. Americans, in general, didn't go into town on Friday mornings if there was to be a beheading because, if you were there and a mullah (there were lots of those roaming around) saw you, you would be herded to the execution site. You were expected to attend. Ergo, Americans didn't go into town. Some Americans didn't go into town on Fridays at all, just in case they missed an announcement, or one wasn't made. Yes, there were a few who would go to watch, but VERY FEW. That's my experience, for what it's worth.
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Jan 19, 2015 18:52:10 GMT -5
This execution happened in a country that has laws based on religious believes and the Quran is prety much the law. "Thy shalt not kill" is part of the Quran since the Islamic faith follows to a "T" The Old Testament. But there is also the "eye for an eye" and "insult of the prophet is punishable by death" inserted in there. Or at least that's how I remember it!
And just to make it clear for the purpose of this discussion: I do support the DP as long as a fair trial is given, burden of proof is met and there is not a shadow of a doubt about the crime and the acused. And if all appeals have been exhausted why postpone the execution? Should be carried out at the earliest convenience. And spare me the "inhumane treatment" or the "I got a cold so I am sick and can't be executed!" Make it accessible to public on selective basis; the jurors that found said person guilty should be present, families of both sides if they choose, press, randomly selected citizens.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 19, 2015 19:45:01 GMT -5
Teach a man he can be legally killed? Teach a man why he's mistaken rather than merely telling him he's mistaken. That way, he doesn't repeat the mistake and you don't have to repeat yourself.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 19, 2015 22:25:58 GMT -5
so, no problem with killing then. got it. edit: i don't do the Bible Board, and i was not looking for a Biblical response. a simple "you can be a good Christian and still believe in the DP" would suffice. It would suffice, but actually reading the suggested paragraphs would provide you with a concise explanation of why you can be a good Christian and still believe in the DP. It's a "teach a man to fish" kind of thing. that was precisely what i do NOT want. listen, Virgil, i lived through about 13 years of going to church every Sunday. that is about 500 Sundays i would like back. if you are in a position to give them to me, then we can talk some more about your pontifications. if not, i think i have had enough, thanks.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 19, 2015 22:54:11 GMT -5
It would suffice, but actually reading the suggested paragraphs would provide you with a concise explanation of why you can be a good Christian and still believe in the DP. It's a "teach a man to fish" kind of thing. that was precisely what i do NOT want. listen, Virgil, i lived through about 13 years of going to church every Sunday. that is about 500 Sundays i would like back. if you are in a position to give them to me, then we can talk some more about your pontifications. if not, i think i have had enough, thanks. You drive a hard bargain, but you've got yourself a deal. Give me a minute. ... Waiting for the system to come online now. ... ... Authenticating. ... Yes. Yes. Yes. I've read the warnings. ... ... Aaaand logging out. ... Confirmed! I have added 12,000 standard hours (500 full calendar days) to your lifespan. Your new deathday now falls on a Thursday at approx. 4:20 AM. For a while I thought it was weird that the hour was exactly the same as before, but then I realized that's exactly what should happen when adding a multiple of 24 hours. So, that's my part of the agreement fulfilled. For your part of the agreement, you can choose which of the following pontifications you'll discuss with me: - DJ swears too much
- DJ is too easily offended
- DJ's avatar is creepy and makes no sense
- DJ is a closet Democrat
- DJ doesn't agree with Virgil nearly often enough
My preference is to pontificate on 3 or 5, but I leave the choice up to you.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 19, 2015 23:54:35 GMT -5
that was precisely what i do NOT want. listen, Virgil, i lived through about 13 years of going to church every Sunday. that is about 500 Sundays i would like back. if you are in a position to give them to me, then we can talk some more about your pontifications. if not, i think i have had enough, thanks. You drive a hard bargain, but you've got yourself a deal. Give me a minute. ... Waiting for the system to come online now. ... ... Authenticating. ... Yes. Yes. Yes. I've read the warnings. ... ... Aaaand logging out. ... Confirmed! I have added 12,000 standard hours (500 full calendar days) to your lifespan. Your new deathday now falls on a Thursday at approx. 4:20 AM. For a while I thought it was weird that the hour was exactly the same as before, but then I realized that's exactly what should happen when adding a multiple of 24 hours. So, that's my part of the agreement fulfilled. For your part of the agreement, you can choose which of the following pontifications you'll discuss with me: - DJ swears too much
- DJ is too easily offended
- DJ's avatar is creepy and makes no sense
- DJ is a closet Democrat
- DJ doesn't agree with Virgil nearly often enough
My preference is to pontificate on 3 or 5, but I leave the choice up to you. i like swearing. sue me. i am not that easily angered or offended, actually. there are a very few specific things that anger and upset me. you know them well. i love my avatar. i have explained it once. do you remember the explanation? i am actually a closet anarchist, Virgil. how well do i hide it? i don't think i disagree with you nearly often enough. so, i am choosing 3. that is a picture of John Glenn getting randomly smacked in the gob. there are three things i LOVE about that picture. ONE: that the fist is so clear and that John is so blurry in that picture. TWO: the fact that such a still even exists is something of a miracle. THREE: the story behind it is really terrific. some crazy bastard came up and randomly smacked John while he was on camera. the guy was caught. now, there are a lot of ways of handling that. one way would have been to prosecute him for assault. that is the way most members of congress would probably have handled it. you know how John Glenn handled it? first of all, he gave the singularly great response to the event "it has been a long time since I have been hit that hard", and secondly, he never even considered suing the guy. you gotta love John Glenn for both of those things. that picture reminds me to turn the other cheek, Virgil. if John Glenn can do it, so can i. i bet that is a better bit of banter than you were expecting.
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deziloooooo
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Post by deziloooooo on Jan 20, 2015 0:25:24 GMT -5
Saw a video today where the USA's best pals in the middle east chopped the head off of a woman that was screaming her innocence- our pals Saudi Arabia. The commentary went ballistic about how cruel and sadistic Islam is yet not a peep about how the USA executes people- as we bed with China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia when it comes to killing citizens.
Once thing I learned from this- is that religion can be so damaging to a society that I think the only way to fix the problem is to eradicate it. To hell with Saudi Arabia- yet we have a problem with Cuba? Apparently we love dictators and human rights abusers.
I hate to post this link, and probably not a good idea to watch it, but the barbarism needs to be on the front page of every paper. We are not any better- in fact we are just as bad- we have a huge pro-death penalty contingent in this country that makes me sick.
* Do not watch this link unless you are a death penalty supporter.
www.liveleak.com/view?i=3fe_1421494996 As far as the method of execution, in this case beheading, it wasn't that long ago France , a nation considered by most , a model of civilized behavior and tolerance for others method of execution, before being outlawed ..execution, death penalty, was just that, beheading..guilitine , which was invented by a Dr. Guilitine as a most humane way of execution compared to what was being used at that time..hangings, firing squads..what ever. After watching this execution,{ I did watch} all I can say is WOW...a open it seemed parking lot...many men , seeming in some type of uniform..police, military../no woman, not sure if any religiouse personnel were there..the one executed wrapped in black , head covered and many hands holding her down, then the executioner grabbing the cloth covering , pulling her paralal to the ground as she was screaming and one handed , wacking away with a large sword.. possible unable to really see where the neck was in my mind..commentary said it too three wacks...I realize the way of execution is probably in their Koran...dates back to 13 century or so..so the sword is probably mentioned but I would think a country as wealthy as Saudi Arabia would be able to spend a few what ever they use for currency and come up with a more humane way of carrying out this act... I pray that the woman was guilty at least, not a set up... { I am suggesting this film was not a official sanctioned film of the proceedings..believed it was done secretly and wouldn't be surprised some one is going to suffer some consequences over it...just a thought...}
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jan 20, 2015 0:30:31 GMT -5
I like John Glenn- he is a real hero.
Chuck Yeager was a hero of mine- and then he went Republican and broke the law- very sad.
Kind of runs in your camp.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 20, 2015 0:38:31 GMT -5
I like John Glenn- he is a real hero.
Chuck Yeager was a hero of mine- and then he went Republican and broke the law- very sad.
Kind of runs in your camp.
that (JG) incident totally won me over. i was a big Yeager fan, as well. had posters of him. followed his exploits. amazing person.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Jan 20, 2015 0:42:52 GMT -5
Saw a video today where the USA's best pals in the middle east chopped the head off of a woman that was screaming her innocence- our pals Saudi Arabia. The commentary went ballistic about how cruel and sadistic Islam is yet not a peep about how the USA executes people- as we bed with China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia when it comes to killing citizens.
Once thing I learned from this- is that religion can be so damaging to a society that I think the only way to fix the problem is to eradicate it. To hell with Saudi Arabia- yet we have a problem with Cuba? Apparently we love dictators and human rights abusers.
I hate to post this link, and probably not a good idea to watch it, but the barbarism needs to be on the front page of every paper. We are not any better- in fact we are just as bad- we have a huge pro-death penalty contingent in this country that makes me sick.
* Do not watch this link unless you are a death penalty supporter.
www.liveleak.com/view?i=3fe_1421494996 As far as the method of execution, in this case beheading, it wasn't that long ago France , a nation considered by most , a model of civilized behavior and tolerance for others method of execution, before being outlawed ..execution, death penalty, was just that, beheading..guilitine , which was invented by a Dr. Guilitine as a most humane way of execution compared to what was being used at that time..hangings, firing squads..what ever. After watching this execution,{ I did watch} all I can say is WOW...a open it seemed parking lot...many men , seeming in some type of uniform..police, military../no woman, not sure if any religiouse personnel were there..the one executed wrapped in black , head covered and many hands holding her down, then the executioner grabbing the cloth covering , pulling her paralal to the ground as she was screaming and one handed wacking away with a large sword..unable to really see where the neck was In my mind..commentary said it too three wacks'...I realize the way of execution is probably in their Koran...dates back to 13 century or so..so the sword is probably mentioned but I would think a country as wealthy as Saudi Arabia would be able to spend a few what ever they use for currency and come up with a more humane way of carrying out this act... I pray that the woman was guilty at least, not a set up... { I am suggesting this film was not a official sanctioned film of the proceedings..believed it was done secretly and wouldn't be surprised some one is going to suffer some consequences over it...just a thought...} The problem I had was 'police' having to hold down a person so they could be beheaded. If you look into it- the normal case is that the condemned and the executioner are draped in white. And it as swift as the guillotine. It makes me sick
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 20, 2015 9:23:42 GMT -5
You drive a hard bargain, but you've got yourself a deal. Give me a minute. ... Waiting for the system to come online now. ... ... Authenticating. ... Yes. Yes. Yes. I've read the warnings. ... ... Aaaand logging out. ... Confirmed! I have added 12,000 standard hours (500 full calendar days) to your lifespan. Your new deathday now falls on a Thursday at approx. 4:20 AM. For a while I thought it was weird that the hour was exactly the same as before, but then I realized that's exactly what should happen when adding a multiple of 24 hours. So, that's my part of the agreement fulfilled. For your part of the agreement, you can choose which of the following pontifications you'll discuss with me: - DJ swears too much
- DJ is too easily offended
- DJ's avatar is creepy and makes no sense
- DJ is a closet Democrat
- DJ doesn't agree with Virgil nearly often enough
My preference is to pontificate on 3 or 5, but I leave the choice up to you. i like swearing. sue me. i am not that easily angered or offended, actually. there are a very few specific things that anger and upset me. you know them well. i love my avatar. i have explained it once. do you remember the explanation? i am actually a closet anarchist, Virgil. how well do i hide it? i don't think i disagree with you nearly often enough. so, i am choosing 3. that is a picture of John Glenn getting randomly smacked in the gob. there are three things i LOVE about that picture. ONE: that the fist is so clear and that John is so blurry in that picture. TWO: the fact that such a still even exists is something of a miracle. THREE: the story behind it is really terrific. some crazy bastard came up and randomly smacked John while he was on camera. the guy was caught. now, there are a lot of ways of handling that. one way would have been to prosecute him for assault. that is the way most members of congress would probably have handled it. you know how John Glenn handled it? first of all, he gave the singularly great response to the event "it has been a long time since I have been hit that hard", and secondly, he never even considered suing the guy. you gotta love John Glenn for both of those things. that picture reminds me to turn the other cheek, Virgil. if John Glenn can do it, so can i. i bet that is a better bit of banter than you were expecting. Indeed a better bit of banter. I regret to inform you that, absent your explanation, the most sensible (and undoubtedly the most common) interpretation of your avatar is that you consider John Glenn being punched in the face funny, or that the assault otherwise meets with your approval. I suggest changing the caption from "Duck, John!" to "I admire John Glenn for not prosecuting his assailant in response to this cowardly attack."
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 20, 2015 10:34:01 GMT -5
As far as the method of execution, in this case beheading, it wasn't that long ago France , a nation considered by most , a model of civilized behavior and tolerance for others method of execution, before being outlawed ..execution, death penalty, was just that, beheading..guilitine , which was invented by a Dr. Guilitine as a most humane way of execution compared to what was being used at that time..hangings, firing squads..what ever. After watching this execution,{ I did watch} all I can say is WOW...a open it seemed parking lot...many men , seeming in some type of uniform..police, military../no woman, not sure if any religiouse personnel were there..the one executed wrapped in black , head covered and many hands holding her down, then the executioner grabbing the cloth covering , pulling her paralal to the ground as she was screaming and one handed wacking away with a large sword..unable to really see where the neck was In my mind..commentary said it too three wacks'...I realize the way of execution is probably in their Koran...dates back to 13 century or so..so the sword is probably mentioned but I would think a country as wealthy as Saudi Arabia would be able to spend a few what ever they use for currency and come up with a more humane way of carrying out this act... I pray that the woman was guilty at least, not a set up... { I am suggesting this film was not a official sanctioned film of the proceedings..believed it was done secretly and wouldn't be surprised some one is going to suffer some consequences over it...just a thought...} The problem I had was 'police' having to hold down a person so they could be beheaded. If you look into it- the normal case is that the condemned and the executioner are draped in white. And it as swift as the guillotine. It makes me sick
Please note, no choke hold involved........
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 20, 2015 11:48:07 GMT -5
i like swearing. sue me. i am not that easily angered or offended, actually. there are a very few specific things that anger and upset me. you know them well. i love my avatar. i have explained it once. do you remember the explanation? i am actually a closet anarchist, Virgil. how well do i hide it? i don't think i disagree with you nearly often enough. so, i am choosing 3. that is a picture of John Glenn getting randomly smacked in the gob. there are three things i LOVE about that picture. ONE: that the fist is so clear and that John is so blurry in that picture. TWO: the fact that such a still even exists is something of a miracle. THREE: the story behind it is really terrific. some crazy bastard came up and randomly smacked John while he was on camera. the guy was caught. now, there are a lot of ways of handling that. one way would have been to prosecute him for assault. that is the way most members of congress would probably have handled it. you know how John Glenn handled it? first of all, he gave the singularly great response to the event "it has been a long time since I have been hit that hard", and secondly, he never even considered suing the guy. you gotta love John Glenn for both of those things. that picture reminds me to turn the other cheek, Virgil. if John Glenn can do it, so can i. i bet that is a better bit of banter than you were expecting. Indeed a better bit of banter. I regret to inform you that, absent your explanation, the most sensible (and undoubtedly the most common) interpretation of your avatar is that you consider John Glenn being punched in the face funny, or that the assault otherwise meets with your approval. I suggest changing the caption from "Duck, John!" to "I admire John Glenn for not prosecuting his assailant in response to this cowardly attack." well, i DO think that the PICTURE is funny. hilarious, in fact. i also think the aftermath is funny. so, i think it is about 2/3 funny. i do NOT think assault is funny, but you (and everyone else here) should know that from my position on assault whenever it comes up. also, i want something that fits as a caption, if you don't mind. the avatar square is pretty small.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 20, 2015 22:44:55 GMT -5
There's a very good chance that the woman was suffering from post-partum psychosis. Are you suggesting she should be executed? I've seen it many times. We had a woman, a lawyer, who drowned her newborn twins in the tub and stabbed her 2 yr old because "angels told her to do it". She was a very sick woman who will never forgive herself and will live with the guilt forever. You don't execute the mentally ill. You just don't.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 21, 2015 2:25:56 GMT -5
There's a very good chance that the woman was suffering from post-partum psychosis. Are you suggesting she should be executed? I've seen it many times. We had a woman, a lawyer, who drowned her newborn twins in the tub and stabbed her 2 yr old because "angels told her to do it". She was a very sick woman who will never forgive herself and will live with the guilt forever. You don't execute the mentally ill. You just don't.
If it turns out she was totally out-of-her-mind crazy, clinical evidence exists to support that fact, and she has no history of violence or child abuse, I could see a case for leniency. The neighbour testifies in the video she told him she was burning a bag of waste. It seems to me that an out-of-her-mind-crazy woman would readily admit to euthanizing her infant rather than inventing on-the-spot lies to placate him. Deceit is the product of high level thinking. But a court psychiatrist would probably disagree with me. You also realize that even if she lives on, her life is going to be a living hell. She burned her baby alive. Who knows how many years she'll rot in prison or a mental institution.
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