USA vs Islam- a lesson in hypocrisy

[EVT1]

 Saw a video today where the USA's best pals in the middle east chopped the head off of  a woman that was screaming her innocence- our pals Saudi Arabia.  The commentary went ballistic about how cruel and sadistic Islam is yet not a peep about how the USA executes people- as we bed with China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia when it comes to killing citizens.

Once thing I learned from this- is that religion can be so damaging to a society that I think the only way to fix the problem is to eradicate it.  To hell with Saudi Arabia- yet we have a problem with Cuba? Apparently we love dictators and human rights abusers.

I hate to post this link, and probably not a good idea to watch it, but the barbarism needs to be on the front page of every paper. We are not any better- in fact we are just as bad- we have a huge pro-death penalty contingent in this country that makes me sick.

* Do not watch this link unless you are a death penalty supporter.

www.liveleak.com/view?i=3fe_1421494996

[Virgil Showlion]

According to the article, she was convicted of sexually assaulting and then murdering her 7-year-old stepdaughter.

Her own life was over in a matter of seconds. Quick and unceremonious.

It's a just punishment carried out in a humane manner. Hate on Islam all you want, but they certainly do get some things right.

[mroped]

Explain to me how is it that a serial murderer or serial rapist or serial child molester deserves to live a long life, in prison as it may be? He/she has rights? I beg to differ! If you intentionaly took the life of another and did it with malice than you deserve nothing but death! Ofcourse all can be done only after the burden of proof is met. Sentence should be swift and carried out in a timely manner.

I believe we already had this discussion about death penalty in US?!

As far as the Islamic countries goes, yes I agree that what they are doing is not right because especially women don't get a fair trial. It is their way of life and honestly I'm kinda sick and tired of hearing that "US has a duty to do something!" We do not!!! We are not the worlds babysitter or watcher or whatever you wanna call it. We have to stop trying to make everyone have a lifestyle similar with ours.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

The Islamic Laws of Saudi Arabia have nothing to do with the US, and nothing do do with the US or Canada doing business with them.

I lived in Saudi Arabia for 2 yrs when DH worked as an Expatriate there. When venturing outside the walls of the US-owned condo complex community we lived in, we lived by their rules/laws when out shopping or dining, etc - including dressing according to their laws - bodies and head covered.

If rape or assault and then murder of a child is punishable by death according to law, then that's the sentence she was given. I don't like the idea of a public beheading or execution - but if that's how they carry out a sentence, it's their law and their land - not ours to question.

[billisonboard]

Jan 18, 2015 21:21:14 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

... I don't like the idea of a public beheading or execution - ...

If we are going to kill, I support making it as public and bloody as possible.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 18, 2015 21:52:24 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jan 18, 2015 21:21:14 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

... I don't like the idea of a public beheading or execution - ...

If we are going to kill, I support making it as public and bloody as possible.

If you think it would change people's opinions on the matter, you're mistaken.

Aside from that, executions used to be public. It was only in later years that busybodies spirited it away to behind closed doors.

[Deleted]

I think we should go back to public executions.

Maybe keep it to "adults only", but freely accessed by adults (a "privacy fence", fenced in area, for public hangings... maybe?)

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Public hangings aren't that far back in history in N. America. Even death by lethal injection (or previously gas chamber) were (and are) witnessed by spectators to make sure the sentence is carried out.

They may no longer be held in the town square for the general public, but they do get carried out with witnesses.

A good (non-fictional) book to read on the subject is John Grisham's "The Innocent Man". It was also made into a movie starring Gene Hackman.

[Deleted]

Jan 18, 2015 22:43:25 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Public hangings aren't that far back in history in N. America. Even death by lethal injection (or previously gas chamber) were (and are) witnessed by spectators to make sure the sentence is carried out.

They may no longer be held in the town square for the general public, but they do get carried out with witnesses.

A good (non-fictional) book to read on the subject is John Grisham's "The Innocent Man". It was also made into a movie starring Gene Hackman.

The witnesses are usually only family members and special invitees (press for example)...

What I envision would be freely accessible entry by the public. Anyone (up to a few hundred, anyway) that just shows up.

[billisonboard]

Jan 18, 2015 22:12:22 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 18, 2015 21:52:24 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

If we are going to kill, I support making it as public and bloody as possible.

If you think it would change people's opinions on the matter, you're mistaken.

...

Okay.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

The witnesses are usually only family members and special invitees (press for example)...

"Special Invitees" also sometimes include family members of the victim(s). It gives them some closure to see the inmate/accused/murderer executed.

[Deleted]

Jan 18, 2015 23:09:11 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

The witnesses are usually only family members and special invitees (press for example)...

"Special Invitees" also sometimes include family members of the victim(s). It gives them some closure to see the inmate/accused/murderer executed.

I was including the family members of the victim(s) when I said "family members". I didn't mean just the person-being-executed's family. I meant family from both sides.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

If you get a chance, read the book I mentioned -or rent the movie if you can find it. The book is much more compelling than the movie.

I was engrossed as I read it. It's a true account of a man on death row. I won't divulge the plot.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 18, 2015 23:08:38 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jan 18, 2015 22:12:22 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

If you think it would change people's opinions on the matter, you're mistaken.

...

Okay.

I have no qualms about the public witnessing executions.

I have no qualms about people touring penitentiaries. My mother was required to tour a prison as part of a training contract shortly before I was born. She said that if people knew what life inside a prison was like, there'd be significantly fewer crimes.

Justice for heinous crimes isn't a pleasant mannerly ordeal, nor is it intended to be. Our society may be halfway degenerated into bleeding heart infantilism, but I'd wager the overwhelming majority of DP supporters are still fully aware of its gravity. If a proponent can't stomach more than just the theory of proportional justice, good riddance to them. We seek neither their counsel nor their arms, as an American statesman once said.

[Opti]

I'm not pro-executions. I also wonder if the woman was set up and

someone else did this but she was killed for it.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 18, 2015 20:40:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

According to the article, she was convicted of sexually assaulting and then murdering her 7-year-old stepdaughter.

Her own life was over in a matter of seconds. Quick and unceremonious.

It's a just punishment carried out in a humane manner. Hate on Islam all you want, but they certainly do get some things right.

what happened to Thou Shalt Not Kill?

[ArchietheDragon]

Jan 19, 2015 13:38:27 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jan 18, 2015 20:40:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

According to the article, she was convicted of sexually assaulting and then murdering her 7-year-old stepdaughter.

Her own life was over in a matter of seconds. Quick and unceremonious.

It's a just punishment carried out in a humane manner. Hate on Islam all you want, but they certainly do get some things right.

what happened to Thou Shalt Not Kill?

just a suggestion

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 19, 2015 11:58:34 GMT -5 Opti said:

I'm not pro-executions. I also wonder if the woman was set up and

someone else did this but she was killed for it.

If we don't start with the presumption of a lawful conviction based on a preponderance of evidence, the problem is the Saudi system of law, not the penalties it hands out.

I know that some here take the view that two wrongs make a right: no legal system is infallible, hence justice shouldn't be proportional. But that's not the point of this thread. EVT is hoping to shock DP supporters with the brutality and finality of the punishment. Evidently he figured we hadn't contemplated it before now.

[Spellbound454]

I think public executions take too much out of a society and normalise lethal violence

people bay and howl and get off on someone death.....WTF

Have a bit of decency



It wasn't that long ago in England where we had people in gibbets at crossroads......or families going out for the day to a picnic and to witness a torturous death


Thankfully we have grown up a bit since then.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 19, 2015 13:38:27 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jan 18, 2015 20:40:26 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

According to the article, she was convicted of sexually assaulting and then murdering her 7-year-old stepdaughter.

Her own life was over in a matter of seconds. Quick and unceremonious.

It's a just punishment carried out in a humane manner. Hate on Islam all you want, but they certainly do get some things right.

what happened to Thou Shalt Not Kill?

Thou Shalt Not Kill; explains it in the first two paragraphs.

If you want to reply to this post, do it on the Religion sub-board. We're not allowed to discuss scripture.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 19, 2015 13:54:58 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

I think public executions take too much out of a society and normalise lethal violence

people bay and howl and get off on someone death.....WTF

Have a bit of decency



It wasn't that long ago in England where we had people in gibbets at crossroads......or families going out for the day to a picnic and to witness a torturous death


Thankfully we have grown up a bit since then.

There may be just a bit of middle ground between sub-capital punishment and family torture picnics.

[b2r]

[Opti]

Jan 19, 2015 13:53:30 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 19, 2015 11:58:34 GMT -5 Opti said:

I'm not pro-executions. I also wonder if the woman was set up and

someone else did this but she was killed for it.

If we don't start with the presumption of a lawful conviction based on a preponderance of evidence, the problem is the Saudi system of law, not the penalties it hands out.

I know that some here take the view that two wrongs make a right: no legal system is infallible, hence justice shouldn't be proportional. But that's not the point of this thread. EVT is hoping to shock DP supporters with the brutality and finality of the punishment. Evidently he figured we hadn't contemplated it before now.

I know what the OP's intention was. I just found some interesting reading earlier today

because of the Jeddah, Saudi Arabia thread. I googled 'foreign men imprisioned in Saudi

Arabia' and found the below.

www.theguardian.com/world/2005/may/10/alqaida.saudiarabia

Mitchell had no hopes that he would get out of Saudi alive, still less that he would be able to piece his life together like this. For 32 months between December 2000 and August 2003 he was jailed in Riyadh for a murder he did not commit, the car bombing of a British engineer called Christopher Rodway in November 2000. Mitchell was tortured until he confessed, forced to read his confession on TV, tortured again to ensure he wouldn't recant, and then sentenced to death in 2002 after a 10-minute secret trial.

[Spellbound454]

Its "gore gobbling" that gets on my goat.

Nosey people who chase ambulances on the chance that they may see someone in bits,
People who slow down at a motorway accident.... for a the thrill of seeing a person in distress.... or dead

There is something seriously wrong with that...

[Opti]

Jan 19, 2015 14:02:21 GMT -5 b2r said:

If this is the one in southern NJ, absolutely horrible.

[Spellbound454]

sub-capital punishment

Huh?....Capital punishment is a bit more binary than that...... Dead or alive.

[Virgil Showlion]

Jan 19, 2015 14:10:17 GMT -5 Spellbound454 said:

sub-capital punishment

Huh?....Capital punishment is a bit more binary than that...... Dead or alive.

Referring to punishments that are considered less harsh than capital punishment. Lifelong imprisonment, for example.

[Deleted]

Jan 18, 2015 20:19:58 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

 Saw a video today where the USA's best pals in the middle east chopped the head off of  a woman that was screaming her innocence- our pals Saudi Arabia.  The commentary went ballistic about how cruel and sadistic Islam is yet not a peep about how the USA executes people- as we bed with China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia when it comes to killing citizens.

Once thing I learned from this- is that religion can be so damaging to a society that I think the only way to fix the problem is to eradicate it.  To hell with Saudi Arabia- yet we have a problem with Cuba? Apparently we love dictators and human rights abusers.

I hate to post this link, and probably not a good idea to watch it, but the barbarism needs to be on the front page of every paper. We are not any better- in fact we are just as bad- we have a huge pro-death penalty contingent in this country that makes me sick.

* Do not watch this link unless you are a death penalty supporter.

www.liveleak.com/view?i=3fe_1421494996

I agree, religion is often the tool of the unenlightened.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 19, 2015 13:56:31 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Jan 19, 2015 13:38:27 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

what happened to Thou Shalt Not Kill?

Thou Shalt Not Kill; explains it in the first two paragraphs.

If you want to reply to this post, do it on the Religion sub-board. We're not allowed to discuss scripture.

so, no problem with killing then.  got it.

edit: i don't do the Bible Board, and i was not looking for a Biblical response.  a simple "you can be a good Christian and still believe in the DP" would suffice.

[Tennesseer]

Jan 19, 2015 16:11:08 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Jan 19, 2015 13:56:31 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Thou Shalt Not Kill; explains it in the first two paragraphs.

If you want to reply to this post, do it on the Religion sub-board. We're not allowed to discuss scripture.

so, no problem with killing then.  got it.

edit: i don't do the Bible Board, and i was not looking for a Biblical response.  a simple "you can be a good Christian and still believe in the DP" would suffice.

I thought 'Thou Shall Not Kill' was just a part of our supposed Christian-Judeo American laws. That's what many folks here claim. And its frequently hanging on the walls of/or carved on monuments in or outside many U.S. court houses.