EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on Jan 18, 2015 20:19:58 GMT -5
Saw a video today where the USA's best pals in the middle east chopped the head off of a woman that was screaming her innocence- our pals Saudi Arabia. The commentary went ballistic about how cruel and sadistic Islam is yet not a peep about how the USA executes people- as we bed with China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia when it comes to killing citizens.
Once thing I learned from this- is that religion can be so damaging to a society that I think the only way to fix the problem is to eradicate it. To hell with Saudi Arabia- yet we have a problem with Cuba? Apparently we love dictators and human rights abusers.
I hate to post this link, and probably not a good idea to watch it, but the barbarism needs to be on the front page of every paper. We are not any better- in fact we are just as bad- we have a huge pro-death penalty contingent in this country that makes me sick.
* Do not watch this link unless you are a death penalty supporter.
www.liveleak.com/view?i=3fe_1421494996
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 18, 2015 20:40:26 GMT -5
According to the article, she was convicted of sexually assaulting and then murdering her 7-year-old stepdaughter.
Her own life was over in a matter of seconds. Quick and unceremonious.
It's a just punishment carried out in a humane manner. Hate on Islam all you want, but they certainly do get some things right.
|
|
mroped
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 17:36:56 GMT -5
Posts: 3,453
|
Post by mroped on Jan 18, 2015 21:19:25 GMT -5
Explain to me how is it that a serial murderer or serial rapist or serial child molester deserves to live a long life, in prison as it may be? He/she has rights? I beg to differ! If you intentionaly took the life of another and did it with malice than you deserve nothing but death! Ofcourse all can be done only after the burden of proof is met. Sentence should be swift and carried out in a timely manner.
I believe we already had this discussion about death penalty in US?!
As far as the Islamic countries goes, yes I agree that what they are doing is not right because especially women don't get a fair trial. It is their way of life and honestly I'm kinda sick and tired of hearing that "US has a duty to do something!" We do not!!! We are not the worlds babysitter or watcher or whatever you wanna call it. We have to stop trying to make everyone have a lifestyle similar with ours.
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jan 18, 2015 21:21:14 GMT -5
The Islamic Laws of Saudi Arabia have nothing to do with the US, and nothing do do with the US or Canada doing business with them.
I lived in Saudi Arabia for 2 yrs when DH worked as an Expatriate there. When venturing outside the walls of the US-owned condo complex community we lived in, we lived by their rules/laws when out shopping or dining, etc - including dressing according to their laws - bodies and head covered.
If rape or assault and then murder of a child is punishable by death according to law, then that's the sentence she was given. I don't like the idea of a public beheading or execution - but if that's how they carry out a sentence, it's their law and their land - not ours to question.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,477
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 18, 2015 21:52:24 GMT -5
... I don't like the idea of a public beheading or execution - ... If we are going to kill, I support making it as public and bloody as possible.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 18, 2015 22:12:22 GMT -5
... I don't like the idea of a public beheading or execution - ... If we are going to kill, I support making it as public and bloody as possible. If you think it would change people's opinions on the matter, you're mistaken. Aside from that, executions used to be public. It was only in later years that busybodies spirited it away to behind closed doors.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 8:43:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 22:25:59 GMT -5
I think we should go back to public executions.
Maybe keep it to "adults only", but freely accessed by adults (a "privacy fence", fenced in area, for public hangings... maybe?)
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jan 18, 2015 22:43:25 GMT -5
Public hangings aren't that far back in history in N. America. Even death by lethal injection (or previously gas chamber) were (and are) witnessed by spectators to make sure the sentence is carried out.
They may no longer be held in the town square for the general public, but they do get carried out with witnesses.
A good (non-fictional) book to read on the subject is John Grisham's "The Innocent Man". It was also made into a movie starring Gene Hackman.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 8:43:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 22:59:07 GMT -5
Public hangings aren't that far back in history in N. America. Even death by lethal injection (or previously gas chamber) were (and are) witnessed by spectators to make sure the sentence is carried out.
They may no longer be held in the town square for the general public, but they do get carried out with witnesses.
A good (non-fictional) book to read on the subject is John Grisham's "The Innocent Man". It was also made into a movie starring Gene Hackman. The witnesses are usually only family members and special invitees (press for example)... What I envision would be freely accessible entry by the public. Anyone (up to a few hundred, anyway) that just shows up.
|
|
billisonboard
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 22:45:44 GMT -5
Posts: 37,477
Member is Online
|
Post by billisonboard on Jan 18, 2015 23:08:38 GMT -5
If we are going to kill, I support making it as public and bloody as possible. If you think it would change people's opinions on the matter, you're mistaken. ... Okay.
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jan 18, 2015 23:09:11 GMT -5
"Special Invitees" also sometimes include family members of the victim(s). It gives them some closure to see the inmate/accused/murderer executed.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 8:43:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 23:20:38 GMT -5
"Special Invitees" also sometimes include family members of the victim(s). It gives them some closure to see the inmate/accused/murderer executed. I was including the family members of the victim(s) when I said "family members". I didn't mean just the person-being-executed's family. I meant family from both sides.
|
|
ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ
Community Leader
♡ ♡ BᏋՆᎥᏋᏉᏋ ♡ ♡
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:12:51 GMT -5
Posts: 43,130
Location: Inside POM's Head
Favorite Drink: Chilled White Zin
|
Post by ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ on Jan 18, 2015 23:23:31 GMT -5
If you get a chance, read the book I mentioned -or rent the movie if you can find it. The book is much more compelling than the movie.
I was engrossed as I read it. It's a true account of a man on death row. I won't divulge the plot.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 19, 2015 0:57:55 GMT -5
If you think it would change people's opinions on the matter, you're mistaken. ... Okay. I have no qualms about the public witnessing executions. I have no qualms about people touring penitentiaries. My mother was required to tour a prison as part of a training contract shortly before I was born. She said that if people knew what life inside a prison was like, there'd be significantly fewer crimes. Justice for heinous crimes isn't a pleasant mannerly ordeal, nor is it intended to be. Our society may be halfway degenerated into bleeding heart infantilism, but I'd wager the overwhelming majority of DP supporters are still fully aware of its gravity. If a proponent can't stomach more than just the theory of proportional justice, good riddance to them. We seek neither their counsel nor their arms, as an American statesman once said.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,716
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Jan 19, 2015 11:58:34 GMT -5
I'm not pro-executions. I also wonder if the woman was set up and someone else did this but she was killed for it.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,131
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jan 19, 2015 13:38:27 GMT -5
According to the article, she was convicted of sexually assaulting and then murdering her 7-year-old stepdaughter. Her own life was over in a matter of seconds. Quick and unceremonious. It's a just punishment carried out in a humane manner. Hate on Islam all you want, but they certainly do get some things right. what happened to Thou Shalt Not Kill?
|
|
ArchietheDragon
Junior Associate
Joined: Jul 7, 2014 14:29:23 GMT -5
Posts: 6,353
|
Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 19, 2015 13:47:57 GMT -5
According to the article, she was convicted of sexually assaulting and then murdering her 7-year-old stepdaughter. Her own life was over in a matter of seconds. Quick and unceremonious. It's a just punishment carried out in a humane manner. Hate on Islam all you want, but they certainly do get some things right. what happened to Thou Shalt Not Kill? just a suggestion
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 19, 2015 13:53:30 GMT -5
I'm not pro-executions. I also wonder if the woman was set up and someone else did this but she was killed for it.
If we don't start with the presumption of a lawful conviction based on a preponderance of evidence, the problem is the Saudi system of law, not the penalties it hands out. I know that some here take the view that two wrongs make a right: no legal system is infallible, hence justice shouldn't be proportional. But that's not the point of this thread. EVT is hoping to shock DP supporters with the brutality and finality of the punishment. Evidently he figured we hadn't contemplated it before now.
|
|
Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Sept 9, 2011 17:28:42 GMT -5
Posts: 3,987
|
Post by Spellbound454 on Jan 19, 2015 13:54:58 GMT -5
I think public executions take too much out of a society and normalise lethal violence people bay and howl and get off on someone death.....WTF Have a bit of decency It wasn't that long ago in England where we had people in gibbets at crossroads......or families going out for the day to a picnic and to witness a torturous death Thankfully we have grown up a bit since then.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 19, 2015 13:56:31 GMT -5
According to the article, she was convicted of sexually assaulting and then murdering her 7-year-old stepdaughter. Her own life was over in a matter of seconds. Quick and unceremonious. It's a just punishment carried out in a humane manner. Hate on Islam all you want, but they certainly do get some things right. what happened to Thou Shalt Not Kill? Thou Shalt Not Kill; explains it in the first two paragraphs. If you want to reply to this post, do it on the Religion sub-board. We're not allowed to discuss scripture.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 19, 2015 13:58:37 GMT -5
I think public executions take too much out of a society and normalise lethal violence people bay and howl and get off on someone death.....WTF Have a bit of decency It wasn't that long ago in England where we had people in gibbets at crossroads......or families going out for the day to a picnic and to witness a torturous death Thankfully we have grown up a bit since then. There may be just a bit of middle ground between sub-capital punishment and family torture picnics.
|
|
b2r
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 10:35:25 GMT -5
Posts: 7,257
|
Post by b2r on Jan 19, 2015 14:02:21 GMT -5
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,716
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Jan 19, 2015 14:02:26 GMT -5
I'm not pro-executions. I also wonder if the woman was set up and someone else did this but she was killed for it.
If we don't start with the presumption of a lawful conviction based on a preponderance of evidence, the problem is the Saudi system of law, not the penalties it hands out. I know that some here take the view that two wrongs make a right: no legal system is infallible, hence justice shouldn't be proportional. But that's not the point of this thread. EVT is hoping to shock DP supporters with the brutality and finality of the punishment. Evidently he figured we hadn't contemplated it before now. I know what the OP's intention was. I just found some interesting reading earlier today because of the Jeddah, Saudi Arabia thread. I googled 'foreign men imprisioned in Saudi Arabia' and found the below.
www.theguardian.com/world/2005/may/10/alqaida.saudiarabia
Mitchell had no hopes that he would get out of Saudi alive, still less that he would be able to piece his life together like this. For 32 months between December 2000 and August 2003 he was jailed in Riyadh for a murder he did not commit, the car bombing of a British engineer called Christopher Rodway in November 2000. Mitchell was tortured until he confessed, forced to read his confession on TV, tortured again to ensure he wouldn't recant, and then sentenced to death in 2002 after a 10-minute secret trial.
|
|
Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Sept 9, 2011 17:28:42 GMT -5
Posts: 3,987
|
Post by Spellbound454 on Jan 19, 2015 14:02:28 GMT -5
Its "gore gobbling" that gets on my goat. Nosey people who chase ambulances on the chance that they may see someone in bits, People who slow down at a motorway accident.... for a the thrill of seeing a person in distress.... or dead There is something seriously wrong with that...
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,716
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
|
Post by Opti on Jan 19, 2015 14:04:35 GMT -5
If this is the one in southern NJ, absolutely horrible.
|
|
Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
Joined: Sept 9, 2011 17:28:42 GMT -5
Posts: 3,987
|
Post by Spellbound454 on Jan 19, 2015 14:10:17 GMT -5
Huh?....Capital punishment is a bit more binary than that...... Dead or alive.
|
|
Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
|
Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 19, 2015 14:34:00 GMT -5
Huh?....Capital punishment is a bit more binary than that...... Dead or alive. Referring to punishments that are considered less harsh than capital punishment. Lifelong imprisonment, for example.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 3, 2024 8:43:25 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 14:41:30 GMT -5
Saw a video today where the USA's best pals in the middle east chopped the head off of a woman that was screaming her innocence- our pals Saudi Arabia. The commentary went ballistic about how cruel and sadistic Islam is yet not a peep about how the USA executes people- as we bed with China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia when it comes to killing citizens.
Once thing I learned from this- is that religion can be so damaging to a society that I think the only way to fix the problem is to eradicate it. To hell with Saudi Arabia- yet we have a problem with Cuba? Apparently we love dictators and human rights abusers.
I hate to post this link, and probably not a good idea to watch it, but the barbarism needs to be on the front page of every paper. We are not any better- in fact we are just as bad- we have a huge pro-death penalty contingent in this country that makes me sick.
* Do not watch this link unless you are a death penalty supporter.
www.liveleak.com/view?i=3fe_1421494996 I agree, religion is often the tool of the unenlightened.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,131
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jan 19, 2015 16:11:08 GMT -5
what happened to Thou Shalt Not Kill? Thou Shalt Not Kill; explains it in the first two paragraphs. If you want to reply to this post, do it on the Religion sub-board. We're not allowed to discuss scripture. so, no problem with killing then. got it. edit: i don't do the Bible Board, and i was not looking for a Biblical response. a simple "you can be a good Christian and still believe in the DP" would suffice.
|
|
Tennesseer
Member Emeritus
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 21:58:42 GMT -5
Posts: 63,499
|
Post by Tennesseer on Jan 19, 2015 16:35:34 GMT -5
Thou Shalt Not Kill; explains it in the first two paragraphs. If you want to reply to this post, do it on the Religion sub-board. We're not allowed to discuss scripture. so, no problem with killing then. got it. edit: i don't do the Bible Board, and i was not looking for a Biblical response. a simple "you can be a good Christian and still believe in the DP" would suffice. I thought 'Thou Shall Not Kill' was just a part of our supposed Christian-Judeo American laws. That's what many folks here claim. And its frequently hanging on the walls of/or carved on monuments in or outside many U.S. court houses.
|
|