NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Dec 26, 2014 16:34:26 GMT -5
Why does it have to be all or nothing?
If I had a dime for every time I've heard DH say that. .. we wouldn't have to budget.
It doesn't have to be at either extreme, there IS a middle ground. Personally I am terrible with numbers so a lot of the systems YM uses don't work for me. I approach it more like Phil (though with not near as much money), I pay our savings account FIRST. Then I ideally don't have to worry about the rest of our money.
I'm not perfect, we suffered quite a few hiccups after our first daughter was born and our savings took a hit. I won't win any YM gold medals.
But by being mindful beforehand we were able to take our lumps. We'd have been in way worse shape if we'd had no savings and no awareness of our spending.
You're in a position where yeah you can afford a $3k Disney trip but a car repair has to go on credit cards. It should be the other way around, you should be able to afford the car repairs FIRST. You need the car to work, you don't NEED Disney. Disney is a nice bonus.
Nothing wrong with vacations but you've somehow managed to spend money to the point where your daughter has 13 pairs of shoes and a "million" toys. You can't cover anything outside of your usual bills without the CC. That should be a big red flag that something's off and you need to reprioritize your money.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Dec 26, 2014 16:35:34 GMT -5
And... I agree that taking your own lunch and a bottle of water is a great place to start. No, it's not a cure-all, but it is one of those areas where you are spending extra money where you don't need to. As for the water--is there something wrong with your tap water at home? Can you just fill up an empty gallon jug and take that?
With as much debt as you have, those are things that probably helped put you in debt. So, once you solve them and feel good about it, you can set yourself up to tackle the next thing. I know Phil looks at "big stuff" and that's great, but the smaller things really do matter too, if you can use them to get yourself in a better mindset. Plus, they are quick and easy to address.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Dec 26, 2014 17:51:15 GMT -5
I'm not really sure you want to... But that's your choice, not mine.
I somehow get the feeling you really don't want to change your spending habits ........ you WANT it all. It sounds like you are doing all of this for you ...... not her. The security and well-being of the family unit is more important than the wants of a child, especially one that is too young to remember any of this.
Your DD needs/wants her parents ..... not more stuff. We didn't take our kid/g-kids to Disney until they were 7. Old enough for all of us to enjoy seeing everything through the eyes of a child. I've seen too many little ones miserable because they need a nap but the parents kept them going.
But it's your choice, not mine.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Dec 26, 2014 19:24:51 GMT -5
This is pretty random, so I beg your indulgences.
Sometimes the road to financial stability starts with something as silly as wanting to take a 3-year-old to Disney.
I seem to recall a pair of luscious winter boots (black leather, three-inch heel, and no room in the toes) being the beginning of my financial sanity.
I started bagging my lunches soon after walking away from them but soon found out that my financial problems were a bit more pressing than a lack of unscuffed heels and that I'd have to make a few more changes than noshing on PB&J.
Wanting silly, impractical things doesn't mean that you're a lost cause.
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2girlsdad
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Post by 2girlsdad on Dec 26, 2014 20:24:43 GMT -5
Doxie, is that you?
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moneymaven
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Post by moneymaven on Dec 26, 2014 21:02:40 GMT -5
How much do you pay in taxes each check, how much goes into husbands retirement, how much goes in to his benefits... Everything needs accounted for to understand the whole picture. Do you generally get a refund? You can start an IRA for 2014 up to April 2015. For both you and husband. Vanguard is a real favorite here and easy to start. I just set one up with Vanguard. Took me less than 10 min. Another 5 to link a bank account.
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wonderland
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Post by wonderland on Dec 26, 2014 21:10:23 GMT -5
Yeah, I figured a Doxie comparison was going to come sooner or later. I'd like to think I am a bit more rational than dox.
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moneymaven
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Post by moneymaven on Dec 26, 2014 21:15:12 GMT -5
Good luck to you. I think you need to assess your combined take home pay with your actual spending. Identify your total debts and interest rates. Start making changes. Start with your lunches if that's where you can. Each week, put away your saved amounts on brown bag lunches into a savings account. After $1000, start paying into a retirement account for yourself. You can do this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 21:35:22 GMT -5
Wanting silly, impractical things doesn't mean that you're a lost cause. No one said it does. She isn't just 'wanting' though. She is doing.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Dec 26, 2014 22:00:48 GMT -5
DS1 is almost 5. I don't think he's owned 13 pairs of shoes combined, from his first baby shoes to the boots he wears now. I admit, I'd be tempted to shop like crazy for a girl. There just isn't much to buy for boy clothes that's cute. I do get disgusted when he grows out of stuff he's barely worn. If I were you, I would have a goal of at least requiring a lot of use out of any article of clothing. I bet there's tons of barely worn, gorgeous used girls clothes to be found. (Tends to be slim pickings for boys.) If you must indulge, go that route.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Dec 26, 2014 22:01:45 GMT -5
Let's knock off the Doxie comparisons, please.
Mid/mod
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wonderland
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Post by wonderland on Dec 26, 2014 22:33:07 GMT -5
DS1 is almost 5. I don't think he's owned 13 pairs of shoes combined, from his first baby shoes to the boots he wears now. I admit, I'd be tempted to shop like crazy for a girl. There just isn't much to buy for boy clothes that's cute. I do get disgusted when he grows out of stuff he's barely worn. If I were you, I would have a goal of at least requiring a lot of use out of any article of clothing. I bet there's tons of barely worn, gorgeous used girls clothes to be found. (Tends to be slim pickings for boys.) If you must indulge, go that route. She does wear most of her shoes on a weekly basis. I admit the snow boots and some of the dress shoes don't get worn regularly, but she does rotate through the various casual boots and sneakers. The snow boots were necessary to keep her little feet warm while playing in the snow.
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wonderland
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Post by wonderland on Dec 26, 2014 22:36:38 GMT -5
I'm not really sure you want to... But that's your choice, not mine.
I somehow get the feeling you really don't want to change your spending habits ........ you WANT it all. It sounds like you are doing all of this for you ...... not her. The security and well-being of the family unit is more important than the wants of a child, especially one that is too young to remember any of this.
Your DD needs/wants her parents ..... not more stuff. We didn't take our kid/g-kids to Disney until they were 7. Old enough for all of us to enjoy seeing everything through the eyes of a child. I've seen too many little ones miserable because they need a nap but the parents kept them going.
But it's your choice, not mine. I do want to make some changes, there is no doubt about that. But I probably won't go to t he other extreme of being a penny pincher who never spends anything on wants. You only live once. I know on my death bed I won't ever wish I had worked more, but I will probably wish I had seen/done more interesting stuff, which requires money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 22:36:59 GMT -5
DS1 is almost 5. I don't think he's owned 13 pairs of shoes combined, from his first baby shoes to the boots he wears now. That would be less than 3 pair of shoes a year. At the rate toddlers feet grow wouldn't you have to change their shoes at least 3 times a year to have them in shoes that fit properly but aren't too tight?
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wonderland
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Post by wonderland on Dec 26, 2014 22:41:50 GMT -5
Phil- Do you really thinks it is a better idea for me to put $7500/year in an IRA than to pay off debt with that money and get out of debt faster?
I'm genuinely asking, not trying to sound as off putting as that could come across.
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wonderland
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Post by wonderland on Dec 26, 2014 22:43:07 GMT -5
How much do you pay in taxes each check, how much goes into husbands retirement, how much goes in to his benefits... Everything needs accounted for to understand the whole picture. Do you generally get a refund? You can start an IRA for 2014 up to April 2015. For both you and husband. Vanguard is a real favorite here and easy to start. I just set one up with Vanguard. Took me less than 10 min. Another 5 to link a bank account. I will look into them, thanks. How much money do you have to have to open. An IRA? Is there a minimum?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 22:45:11 GMT -5
Yes, Phil always believes putting retirement/investment money in first is best... Even if you have to borrow it.
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wonderland
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Post by wonderland on Dec 26, 2014 22:46:52 GMT -5
Pomme- diapers are included in the grocery budget. We have switched from name brand to Luvs, which saved some money. We are working on potty training but DD is a stubborn little thing and refuses to use the potty.
I think you are right about priorities. I want to have my priorities right. And logically, I know that paying debt/securing my future are more important than fun. But emotionally..well...I'm a bit like Veruka Salt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2014 22:53:48 GMT -5
I think it is pretty simple and important to start a good habit of saving even if you have not completely eliminated the overspending.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Dec 26, 2014 23:18:51 GMT -5
DS1 is almost 5. I don't think he's owned 13 pairs of shoes combined, from his first baby shoes to the boots he wears now. That would be less than 3 pair of shoes a year. At the rate toddlers feet grow wouldn't you have to change their shoes at least 3 times a year to have them in shoes that fit properly but aren't too tight? Their growing slows way down. He MAY have been in 3 sizes that first year that he walked, but I think it was more like 2. After that, it has been about 1 size a year. (We didn't put him in shoes before he walked.) Boots and sandals are 2 sizes. He owned 7/8, and then 9/10 in boots. He should have new boots tomorrow, and he's just about ready for the next size up for regular shoes. That will probably get him over the lifetime 13 pairs.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Dec 26, 2014 23:23:00 GMT -5
DS1 is almost 5. I don't think he's owned 13 pairs of shoes combined, from his first baby shoes to the boots he wears now. I admit, I'd be tempted to shop like crazy for a girl. There just isn't much to buy for boy clothes that's cute. I do get disgusted when he grows out of stuff he's barely worn. If I were you, I would have a goal of at least requiring a lot of use out of any article of clothing. I bet there's tons of barely worn, gorgeous used girls clothes to be found. (Tends to be slim pickings for boys.) If you must indulge, go that route. She does wear most of her shoes on a weekly basis. I admit the snow boots and some of the dress shoes don't get worn regularly, but she does rotate through the various casual boots and sneakers. The snow boots were necessary to keep her little feet warm while playing in the snow. No problem with snow boots, but VARIOUS casual boots? Really?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Dec 26, 2014 23:29:22 GMT -5
Wonderland, I think you may be best served if you start out tracking all your spending for a couple of months to find out where your money is really going. At the same time start a cash-flow budget in which you track every month' fixed cost (including things like insurance, property taxes, car tax, and a fixed amount for " unexpected" repairs etc.)
Since your family vacation is non-negotiable for you budget for that as well. Then when you find yourself shopping on-line think of how this 14th (or more)pair of shoes or the millionth and one toy will have to come out of your vacation/fun budget and leave without going to checkout. I used to have a really bad habit of buying all kinds of crafts stuff that I brought under control by picking up an item and walking around the store with it while looking at everything that was available. Most of the time I ended up not buying it and now I rarely enter a craft store. I shopped but didn't buy.
It sounds like you can easily save up for your vacation just by not going to "check out". You can track your savings in excel to see how fast this adds up. Automate your retirement savings and your EF and you'll be on track in no time.
Good luck
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 26, 2014 23:33:40 GMT -5
I'm not really sure you want to... But that's your choice, not mine.
I somehow get the feeling you really don't want to change your spending habits ........ you WANT it all. It sounds like you are doing all of this for you ...... not her. The security and well-being of the family unit is more important than the wants of a child, especially one that is too young to remember any of this.
Your DD needs/wants her parents ..... not more stuff. We didn't take our kid/g-kids to Disney until they were 7. Old enough for all of us to enjoy seeing everything through the eyes of a child. I've seen too many little ones miserable because they need a nap but the parents kept them going.
But it's your choice, not mine. I do want to make some changes, there is no doubt about that. But I probably won't go to t he other extreme of being a penny pincher who never spends anything on wants. You only live once. I know on my death bed I won't ever wish I had worked more, but I will probably wish I had seen/done more interesting stuff, which requires money. The choice isn't Spend till your broke or live like a miser. The "deathbed" thing is tossed around a lot. But it it wouldn't be fun to be broke and struggling either in the potentially many years or decade of old age and be impoverished. It's nit either or. You can live within your means , enjoy life and save.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 26, 2014 23:35:08 GMT -5
However you are setting yourself up to have to work even more to pay your debts so you are actually contradicting yourself.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Dec 26, 2014 23:47:41 GMT -5
Yes. Consider the choice, would you rather direct your $7500/yr to building a $1.6M fund? Or direct it to $15k or $20k of rolling debt? The sooner you get a lump sum of money growing at 11%/yr and compounding the sooner you'll get to $1.6M. Most people never start cuz the goal seems so insurmountable - so instead they dribble money away on "now" stuff. But consider compound interest - the first $7500 that you put away will be $172,000 of your $1.6M in 30 yrs - ie, that's an important one it has 30 yrs to grow. And getting that $172,000 on the way is way more important to your future than using it to kill a $7500 debt.Always direct your income to it's highest and best use. And it's important to place the IRA/401k money in 11%/yr investments, avoid 1% savings accounts and CDs.
BTW, DW & I, before we retired in 1998, probably didn't earn the $120k that you guys do - if we did it was for only a few yrs. So I know that you can do $1.6M, not just giving you theory.
13 shoes? - lol - During the War, when the US was under govt rationing, Mom cut cardboard insoles for our shoes to cover the holes in the bottom - didn't work too well, especially in the rain - and snow. She went to the feed store and picked out the prints in the cloth on the feed bags, the cloth was for our shirts - I didn't have 13 shirts either, lol.. And one winter she made a red coat, it was mine for one winter until I grew out of it and passed it down.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Dec 26, 2014 23:59:17 GMT -5
Yet you had no interest in moving to Alaska for a few years? (Visiting nurses are in demand there, that move wouldn't require money, it would make money.) Maybe DH would get his private pilot's license and fly you and DD around the state, Denali, the villages, etc. Lots of things meet the "seen/done more interesting stuff" - and they don't all require spending money. Eg, my company sent me on over 300 trips to most major cities in US, Canada, paid for by the company.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 26, 2014 23:59:46 GMT -5
DS1 is almost 5. I don't think he's owned 13 pairs of shoes combined, from his first baby shoes to the boots he wears now. That would be less than 3 pair of shoes a year. At the rate toddlers feet grow wouldn't you have to change their shoes at least 3 times a year to have them in shoes that fit properly but aren't too tight? Depends on the kid. Actually, last year DD2 got two pairs: we put socks under her sandals to keep her toes warm. She wears her sister's boots. She's not outside for even an hour at a time in the winter. None of my kids were. In fact, she wears DS's snow pants. At two he HATED going out in the snow. The kids also take their shoes off when they get home. The littlest only really wears shoes at preschool and in the car driving to activities. We do go to the park and what not, but not again, for a long time. Her feet are the *last* thing to grow on her. She's also a small kid. She was wearing some 24 month clothes comfortably until just recently (she's 2.5) DS is now entering the stage where he grows through shoes every 4 months or so. We still rotate shoes..he keeps his school gym shoes and or shoes that are OK but going to be grown out of any second now as outside "play" shoes. It makes his newer shoes last longer. My kids also have play clothes and normal clothes. No need to have DS roll in the mud in his school clothes. He can do that in his crap clothes. Same thing with DD2 and preschool. I don't want to spend a lot of money on clothing, because I want to be OK if it got ruined. And in my experience (for what it is), my kids did not discriminate..the expensive clothes/brand new got stained from whatever just as easily as the second hand ones.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Dec 27, 2014 0:15:06 GMT -5
I know this isn't popular...
But we DO parent our kids with keeping in mind the lifestyle they are going to be able to afford when they get their first job out of college (or whatever type of education they get.) So, yes, my kids are "deprived." They don't go out to eat more than once a month. We don't have cable. They got 4 gifts from us parents (including the Santa gift) for Christmas. We buy cars in cash and are open about why have the debt we have. Until my kids got to be 5, MOST of their clothes fit in two dresser drawers. DS got a dumb flip phone that's prepaid (as do DH and I.)
Actually, on Christmas, I reminded #1, again, that what he sees at his school is NOT normal, in terms of spending patterns. (Most SAHMs don't have nannies, Most kids don't get $400 Easter Baskets, Most parents don't have a second home in Mexico.)
If you continue to raise your kid to think that several vacations a year, lots of shoes and clothes, etc is "normal" then you also need to groom her to 1) make sure she marries someone that can earn a big salary and 2) tell her that she needs to find a major/profession that pays 6 figures.
Heaven help your kid if she thinks her lifestyle is normal and either wants to be a SAHM or a social worker as an adult, still expecting to have everything.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Dec 27, 2014 0:16:43 GMT -5
My 13 yr old daughter doesn't even need 13 pair of. shoes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2014 0:17:35 GMT -5
I just set one up with Vanguard. Took me less than 10 min. Another 5 to link a bank account. I will look into them, thanks. How much money do you have to have to open. An IRA? Is there a minimum? Vanguard has a $1000 minimum for their Target retirement funds (you pick a year you plan to retire in and they adjust the asset allocation automatically as you get closer to the year). Fidelity has no minimum if you enroll in auto-investing of at least $200/month.
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