No Single- Payer in Vermont

[Deleted]

"Vermont ends push for single-payer health care"

the plan would have required an 11.5 percent payroll tax on all Vermont businesses and an income tax hike of up to 9.5 percent. Those taxes wouldn’t have covered transition costs to the new system, which would have amounted to at least $500 million

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/12/18/vermont-ends-push-for-single-payer-health-care/

[wyouser]

What's left of the American working public doesn't have bottomless deep deep pockets

[Deleted]

Vermont taxes the hell out of people.  My sister and I own property there, and there is an enormous tax for out-of-state landowners.  Also, some of the towns have their own taxes for shoppers and tourists.  It's like they want out-of states to stay the hell away from them.

[Angel!]

I don't know, those numbers don't seem to bad to me. I just calculated it out & my employer pays out 12% of my salary towards my healthcare costs & over 8% of my gross income goes to healthcare.  For a lot of people it would just switch paying for healthcare one way with paying for it another way.

The only ones that would really be hit is those that currently don't pay for healthcare (businesses or individuals). 

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2014 16:24:27 GMT -5 Angel! said:

I don't know, those numbers don't seem to bad to me. I just calculated it out & my employer pays out 12% of my salary towards my healthcare costs & over 8% of my gross income goes to healthcare.  For a lot of people it would just switch paying for healthcare one way with paying for it another way.

The only ones that would really be hit is those that currently don't pay for healthcare (businesses or individuals). 

The article said that those tax hikes wouldn't of even covered the transition costs.

[EVT1]

So it looks like CA will end up being the first state to do it- guess we will see.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 19, 2014 16:49:43 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

So it looks like CA will end up being the first state to do it- guess we will see.

Vermont (or someone therein) is stupid.  11.5% is about 2/3 what we pay on average.  penny wise, pound foolish.

[EVT1]

Read some comments by people that live there and they seem to think the problem was the business demographics- not a lot of large companies or industry. 

Maybe the federal government shares some blame too- the only way single payer works in a state is with the proper cooperation.  CA would have been there already if the Terminator had not vetoed it- and they were projecting huge savings.  CA usually leads the way-so it is up to you guys.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 19, 2014 22:23:25 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Read some comments by people that live there and they seem to think the problem was the business demographics- not a lot of large companies or industry. 

Maybe the federal government shares some blame too- the only way single payer works in a state is with the proper cooperation.  CA would have been there already if the Terminator had not vetoed it- and they were projecting huge savings.  CA usually leads the way-so it is up to you guys.

i am kinda surprised we have not got it under Brown, yet.  i think the ACA has taken some wind out of it.

[zibazinski]

Well, DD just looked into ACA. No way is it remotely affordable. $400 a month with 6k deductible. Found her some temporary health care until her job insurance kicks in. Unreal. 

[djAdvocate]

Dec 20, 2014 12:45:57 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Well, DD just looked into ACA. No way is it remotely affordable. $400 a month with 6k deductible. Found her some temporary health care until her job insurance kicks in. Unreal. 

you can contrast that with my friend, Greg.

has two kids.  has been without health insurance his entire life, and is currently self employed.  he has had a lot of issues with his back, so he is tough to insure.  his policy would have been well over $1,000.  i can't remember the exact number, but under Covered Care, he got an equivalent policy for between $300 and $400.

so, clearly it is not working for some people.
and clearly it is working very well for others.

[zibazinski]

I thought she might get a subsidy. That has to be how some people pay for it.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 20, 2014 12:55:06 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I thought she might get a subsidy. That has to be how some people pay for it.

i don't really know.  i only know that my friend does not live like a king.  he has a very modest house in a very nice but not terribly expensive town.  he doesn't have shiny new cars, or nice furniture.  they travel a bit as a family, but they save up for it.  hard to say: but he is PROBABLY subsidized.

[zibazinski]

Do you make $12 an hour?

[djAdvocate]

Dec 19, 2014 13:58:10 GMT -5 wyouser said:

What's left of the American working public doesn't have bottomless deep deep pockets

which is why the burden of these programs NECESSARILY falls to those that do.

[zibazinski]

Which just encourages those who do work to try to figure out how they can beat a system designed to reward those who don't work with the fruit of those that do. It's wrong on so many levels.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 20, 2014 16:46:18 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Which just encourages those who do work to try to figure out how they can beat a system designed to reward those who don't work with the fruit of those that do. It's wrong on so many levels.

that is not a fair description for my friend Greg.  he is just trying to get by, like the rest of us, and doing it as independently as he can.

[zibazinski]

 Yup, well, it isn't fair for someone else to pay for him and his kids. It's his responsibility not anyone else's.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 20, 2014 21:58:01 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

 Yup, well, it isn't fair for someone else to pay for him and his kids. It's his responsibility not anyone else's.

of course it is.  but here is how i figure it:

greg's kids will be leaving home in a few years, and he will be paying into the system for the rest of his life.
and he won't go bankrupt or end up homeless if he has a health problem.

personally, i think that is worth it.  he is trying, and he deserves a chance, without living in fear of losing
everything.  he is a good man, and good men are what "the system" is designed to help.

edit: in other words Greg is not irresponsible.  he knows he is getting a boost, and he appreciates it.
it will make him a life long tax payer, which should more than pay for the few hundred a month he is
subsidized for the next few years.

[zibazinski]

There is that.

[AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP]

Dec 19, 2014 13:01:43 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

"Vermont ends push for single-payer health care"

the plan would have required an 11.5 percent payroll tax on all Vermont businesses and an income tax hike of up to 9.5 percent. Those taxes wouldn’t have covered transition costs to the new system, which would have amounted to at least $500 million

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/12/18/vermont-ends-push-for-single-payer-health-care/

That's the thing about state governments: they can't print money.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 6, 2015 9:50:45 GMT -5 AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP said:

Dec 19, 2014 13:01:43 GMT -5 @xmascookie said:

"Vermont ends push for single-payer health care"

the plan would have required an 11.5 percent payroll tax on all Vermont businesses and an income tax hike of up to 9.5 percent. Those taxes wouldn’t have covered transition costs to the new system, which would have amounted to at least $500 million

www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/12/18/vermont-ends-push-for-single-payer-health-care/

That's the thing about state governments: they can't print money.

indeed.  but they CAN tax.

[weltschmerz]

Dec 20, 2014 21:58:01 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

 Yup, well, it isn't fair for someone else to pay for him and his kids. It's his responsibility not anyone else's.

So, you think ERs have no obligation to treat people without insurance?
It's not their responsibility, is it?

[zibazinski]

I absolutely think no one should be treated without insurance. Hospitals go out of business because of dead beats. They always have money for smokes and other shit but no money for needs, just wants. I reminded someone tonight who was bitching about only qualifying for $200 in food stamps for herself and her four girls that food stamps are meant to supplement her own money not to feed five people for the month. Frankly, she and her girls need to skip a few meals anyway. I did not say that though.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 6, 2015 21:02:05 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I absolutely think no one should be treated without insurance. Hospitals go out of business because of dead beats. They always have money for smokes and other shit but no money for needs, just wants. I reminded someone tonight who was bitching about only qualifying for $200 in food stamps for herself and her four girls that food stamps are meant to supplement her own money not to feed five people for the month. Frankly, she and her girls need to skip a few meals anyway. I did not say that though.

you can blame that socialist Reagan for that law.  and yes, i really do mean it, in this case.  the costs of the uninsured were SOCIALIZED under Reagan to those who carry insurance.  the goal of having universal coverage eliminates the socialism, and makes each person responsible, which makes Obama the capitalist between the two. 

[zibazinski]

Except very few people can afford the Obamacare. Those that get subsidies, wonderful. DD would actually pay more than I do with a slightly less deductible.

[weltschmerz]

Jan 6, 2015 21:02:05 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I absolutely think no one should be treated without insurance. Hospitals go out of business because of dead beats. They always have money for smokes and other shit but no money for needs, just wants. I reminded someone tonight who was bitching about only qualifying for $200 in food stamps for herself and her four girls that food stamps are meant to supplement her own money not to feed five people for the month. Frankly, she and her girls need to skip a few meals anyway. I did not say that though.

I see.  So, you have no problem with people dropping dead right in front of the hospital. No problem with accident trauma victims without insurance just left to die in the road. Just kick them over to the ditch on the side so they don't impede traffic.

[djAdvocate]

Jan 6, 2015 21:11:16 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Except very few people can afford the Obamacare. Those that get subsidies, wonderful. DD would actually pay more than I do with a slightly less deductible.

do i need to explain why that makes no sense?

[Deleted]

Jan 6, 2015 21:11:16 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Except very few people can afford the Obamacare. Those that get subsidies, wonderful. DD would actually pay more than I do with a slightly less deductible.

Even those that get subsidies can't afford Obamacare. LOL

I get the subsidy, and it 100% pays my premium... I can't afford to go see a doctor, because it doesn't actually kick in until I meet my 5,200 annual deductible, but at least I have "insurance".

[zibazinski]

Because, like all socially engineered programs, those that work support those that don't. I have zero issue with not treating those who have no insurance. I'd rather spend my money on fun stuff, too, but I buy health insurance, which covers not much but if I get super sick, I won't have to declare bankruptcy.  DD told me her "fine " would be less than a months premium.