EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on Jan 6, 2015 22:53:16 GMT -5
Except very few people can afford the Obamacare. Those that get subsidies, wonderful. DD would actually pay more than I do with a slightly less deductible. Even those that get subsidies can't afford Obamacare. LOL I get the subsidy, and it 100% pays my premium... I can't afford to go see a doctor, because it doesn't actually kick in until I meet my 5,200 annual deductible, but at least I have "insurance". Compared to single payer it is a piece of shit. I am no big fan of it- but it could save your ass too.
So next time single payer comes up joint the fight
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jan 6, 2015 22:56:21 GMT -5
Because, like all socially engineered programs, those that work support those that don't. I have zero issue with not treating those who have no insurance. I'd rather spend my money on fun stuff, too, but I buy health insurance, which covers not much but if I get super sick, I won't have to declare bankruptcy. DD told me her "fine " would be less than a months premium. You're all heart.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jan 7, 2015 12:52:22 GMT -5
Hey, I'm not telling anyone that if they wish to step up to the plate and pay someone else's bills, that they can't. I'm saying I don't wish to especially while they make choices with their lives and their money that I don't approve of. Trust me, if DD or DS majored in some nonsense degree, not one dime of my money would go toward it. Same as if they marry some loser. On their nickel, not mine. I've seen friends who were still paying off a wedding when their child was getting a divorce so they were helping with that as well. No big S on my forehead, thank you very much.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jan 7, 2015 13:35:57 GMT -5
Hey, I'm not telling anyone that if they wish to step up to the plate and pay someone else's bills, that they can't. I'm saying I don't wish to especially while they make choices with their lives and their money that I don't approve of. Trust me, if DD or DS majored in some nonsense degree, not one dime of my money would go toward it. Same as if they marry some loser. On their nickel, not mine. I've seen friends who were still paying off a wedding when their child was getting a divorce so they were helping with that as well. No big S on my forehead, thank you very much. So, if some poor shlub working minimum wage and can't afford insurance gets into a horrific car accident, he should just be left to die on the side of the road. You don't approve. Got it.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jan 7, 2015 14:18:39 GMT -5
Minimum wage jobs? My kids in high school made more than minimum wage in a state known for not paying diddly in salaries. I've never heard of anyone actually working for minimum wage.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jan 7, 2015 14:28:36 GMT -5
Minimum wage jobs? My kids in high school made more than minimum wage in a state known for not paying diddly in salaries. I've never heard of anyone actually working for minimum wage. Seriously? Nobody works for minimum wage in the US? Wow, you learn something new every day.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jan 7, 2015 14:34:41 GMT -5
Not even Walmart pays minimum wage. It's a catchy phrase to make some people feel sorry for others.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jan 7, 2015 14:36:06 GMT -5
Not even Walmart pays minimum wage. It's a catchy phrase to make some people feel sorry for others. Wow. Just....wow.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,142
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jan 7, 2015 14:38:59 GMT -5
Not even Walmart pays minimum wage. It's a catchy phrase to make some people feel sorry for others. if nobody is paying FMW, then raising it should not be an issue, right?
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jan 7, 2015 14:39:02 GMT -5
Even if they make a shade over minimum wage, some folks just can't afford rent, food, utilities and then ridiculous health insurance costs. Even your WalMart workers have to rely on food stamps, because after all, they make SO MUCH MONEY!
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,142
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jan 7, 2015 14:40:55 GMT -5
Even if they make a shade over minimum wage, some folks just can't afford rent, food, utilities and then ridiculous health insurance costs. Even your WalMart workers have to rely on food stamps, because after all, they make SO MUCH MONEY! WMT employees are apparently given advice on how to GET food stamps. that is what kind of a universe that company lives in.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jan 7, 2015 14:44:49 GMT -5
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,142
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jan 7, 2015 14:46:27 GMT -5
when they are done with the legs, they should find the Waltons and pummel them with them. (don't get me wrong. i love capitalism. i just loathe gentry.)
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jan 7, 2015 14:57:58 GMT -5
when they are done with the legs, they should find the Waltons and pummel them with them.
(don't get me wrong. i love capitalism. i just loathe gentry.) That won't hurt nearly enough. Perhaps they should just run them down with the aforementioned Jaguars.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 2:20:56 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 20:21:04 GMT -5
Minimum wage jobs? My kids in high school made more than minimum wage in a state known for not paying diddly in salaries. I've never heard of anyone actually working for minimum wage. I know lots of people making "Minimum Wage"... I'm not one of them, but I just BARELY make more. Our COLA is pretty low though... so "minimum" IS livable... barely. ETA: livable... as long as you don't need pesky "extras" like... insurance... or healthy food... or a few days off (without pay... when you are sick, for example) every now and then...
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jan 7, 2015 23:16:56 GMT -5
Hey, you don't want to work for low pay or minimum wage? Maybe decide to do something with your life other than hang around on street corners doing drugs or making babies. Education is free and there's opportunity after high school. Welders are making over 130k a year after two years of schooling. So a 20 year old can make big money. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be a welder. If you can afford tats, pets, and smokes, you can afford your own insurance. This is the same old song and dance that is trotted out every time someone says the awful phrase, "personal responsibility ."
|
|
Deleted
Joined: May 5, 2024 2:20:56 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 23:37:47 GMT -5
Hey, you don't want to work for low pay or minimum wage? Maybe decide to do something with your life other than hang around on street corners doing drugs or making babies. Education is free and there's opportunity after high school. Welders are making over 130k a year after two years of schooling. So a 20 year old can make big money. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be a welder. If you can afford tats, pets, and smokes, you can afford your own insurance. This is the same old song and dance that is trotted out every time someone says the awful phrase, "personal responsibility ." Nice options when it's possible... It's not always possible. And even if {insert random example person} can get out of the minimum wage rat-race... someone else has to fill the job. What about them? That's my whole problem with the "get a better, higher paying, job" crowd... It forgets that SOMEONE has to do the low paying jobs.
|
|
EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on Jan 7, 2015 23:48:36 GMT -5
Hey, you don't want to work for low pay or minimum wage? Maybe decide to do something with your life other than hang around on street corners doing drugs or making babies. Education is free and there's opportunity after high school. Welders are making over 130k a year after two years of schooling. So a 20 year old can make big money. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be a welder. If you can afford tats, pets, and smokes, you can afford your own insurance. This is the same old song and dance that is trotted out every time someone says the awful phrase, "personal responsibility ." Damn Zib- think you just handed some right wing tough love to Richard
Quit bitching about Obama, arguing semantics, and go pack some boxes for Amazon
|
|
EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
|
Post by EVT1 on Jan 8, 2015 0:14:58 GMT -5
There is a point we will reach- and soon- where as a matter of 'the real world' that the amount of work needing to be done is outweighed 10-1 by the people needing work.
Hope I retire by then and watch the destruction- the trickle down garbage.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jan 8, 2015 0:31:43 GMT -5
Hey, you don't want to work for low pay or minimum wage? Maybe decide to do something with your life other than hang around on street corners doing drugs or making babies. Education is free and there's opportunity after high school. Welders are making over 130k a year after two years of schooling. So a 20 year old can make big money. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to be a welder. If you can afford tats, pets, and smokes, you can afford your own insurance. This is the same old song and dance that is trotted out every time someone says the awful phrase, "personal responsibility ." And what of those who have been laid off due to belt-tightening or outsourcing? Many of those have exhausted all their resources and will happily take any job, even if it means flipping burgers. Those people should just be allowed to die, because they were irresponsible and didn't plan well. In the richest democracy in the world, no less. Go, America! You're Number One!
(You'll just say those people don't exist.)
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jan 8, 2015 6:33:07 GMT -5
The people filling those jobs are exactly what those jobs were intended for. Part-time workers who need extra cash, high school and college students. People who just want to work part-time. They weren't meant to be lived on. Do you think my friends son wants to freeze his ass off in Dakota? But there were no jobs in Lansing except part time landscaping and snow plowing, supposedly. After doing that for a few years and living with Mom, he decided to better himself. Answered an ad in the paper or online or just heard about it, I suppose. By the grace of GOD his truck made it there and he's doing fine. Could afford to take a month off and come home to visit. But I suppose he had the RIGHT to live where he wanted to live even though he couldn't get a job there. Funny enough, he did the right thing. So she raised him better than anyone thought she had. Of course he could freeze his ass off in the Midwest so I guess that's a wash. I have a friend who works the lunch shift at McDonald's. Has for many years. Doesn't work nights, weekends, holidays, or times when school is out. She had zero problem getting hired and setting her own hours. She's reliable and wanted part-time work. She didn't expect to live on that salary. Even at full time hours. Why? Because it's a job meant for someone just like her. Even at minimum wage companies, if you're reliable and not a druggie, you can move up. But you start at the bottom and bust your ass. You don't whine that you deserve more money when you actually don't. Just because you take up space on earth does not entitle you. A lesson that needs to be learned. Because parents aren't teaching it.
|
|
Blonde Granny
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 15, 2013 8:27:13 GMT -5
Posts: 6,919
Today's Mood: Alone in the world
Location: Wandering Aimlessly
Mini-Profile Name Color: 28e619
Mini-Profile Text Color: 3a9900
|
Post by Blonde Granny on Jan 8, 2015 7:31:49 GMT -5
Hey, I'm not telling anyone that if they wish to step up to the plate and pay someone else's bills, that they can't. I'm saying I don't wish to especially while they make choices with their lives and their money that I don't approve of. Trust me, if DD or DS majored in some nonsense degree, not one dime of my money would go toward it. Same as if they marry some loser. On their nickel, not mine. I've seen friends who were still paying off a wedding when their child was getting a divorce so they were helping with that as well. No big S on my forehead, thank you very much. So, if some poor shlub working minimum wage and can't afford insurance gets into a horrific car accident, he should just be left to die on the side of the road. You don't approve. Got it.
If the poor shlub is driving a car, by law he's supposed to carry car insurance. How's that plan working out for you?? The poor shulb doesn't have car insurance or health insurance.....how is that my problem or better yet, WHY should that be my problem?
|
|
The Captain
Junior Associate
Hugs are good...
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 16:21:23 GMT -5
Posts: 8,717
Location: State of confusion
Favorite Drink: Whinnnne
|
Post by The Captain on Jan 8, 2015 9:21:10 GMT -5
There is a point we will reach- and soon- where as a matter of 'the real world' that the amount of work needing to be done is outweighed 10-1 by the people needing work.
Hope I retire by then and watch the destruction- the trickle down garbage. You know, djAdvocate and I have had more than one discussion circling around this... I waver back and forth wondering if the workforce participation rate is "doomed" to be reduced by advances in technology. More and more I'm not necessarily buying into that scenario. As our population ages, we will need more hands to provide care and assistance for them. As our infrastructure continues to deteriorate e need to start refreshing it. And so on...society has had several massive shifts in structure over the centuries and there has always been some reasonable measure of "full employment". I wonder why someone smarter than me can't come up with a way to use the excess human capital (I'm in business remember, this is how I think) that is not being utilized to it's fullest potential. Instead we sit here and argue about society supporting people through taxes who cannot find a job to fully support themselves while bridges crumble and people who truly need physical assistance (elderly and disabled) cannot get it because there are not enough "resources" available. It is just so incredibly sad and messed up.
|
|
djAdvocate
Member Emeritus
only posting when the mood strikes me.
Joined: Jun 21, 2011 12:33:54 GMT -5
Posts: 75,142
Mini-Profile Background: {"image":"","color":"000307"}
|
Post by djAdvocate on Jan 8, 2015 10:43:12 GMT -5
There is a point we will reach- and soon- where as a matter of 'the real world' that the amount of work needing to be done is outweighed 10-1 by the people needing work.
Hope I retire by then and watch the destruction- the trickle down garbage. You know, djAdvocate and I have had more than one discussion circling around this... I waver back and forth wondering if the workforce participation rate is "doomed" to be reduced by advances in technology. More and more I'm not necessarily buying into that scenario. As our population ages, we will need more hands to provide care and assistance for them. As our infrastructure continues to deteriorate e need to start refreshing it. And so on...society has had several massive shifts in structure over the centuries and there has always been some reasonable measure of "full employment". I wonder why someone smarter than me can't come up with a way to use the excess human capital (I'm in business remember, this is how I think) that is not being utilized to it's fullest potential. Instead we sit here and argue about society supporting people through taxes who cannot find a job to fully support themselves while bridges crumble and people who truly need physical assistance (elderly and disabled) cannot get it because there are not enough "resources" available. It is just so incredibly sad and messed up. that's actually not the argument for me. just thought you might want to know. the argument for me is that the virtuous cycle between capital and labor is broken. it can be fixed, but first we have to recognize it is a problem. what i see is just the opposite. industrialists are looking after their own lot, and have forgotten who got them there. and yes, that is incredibly sad and messed up.
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jan 8, 2015 13:20:02 GMT -5
The people filling those jobs are exactly what those jobs were intended for. Part-time workers who need extra cash, high school and college students. People who just want to work part-time. They weren't meant to be lived on. Do you think my friends son wants to freeze his ass off in Dakota? But there were no jobs in Lansing except part time landscaping and snow plowing, supposedly. After doing that for a few years and living with Mom, he decided to better himself. Answered an ad in the paper or online or just heard about it, I suppose. By the grace of GOD his truck made it there and he's doing fine. Could afford to take a month off and come home to visit. But I suppose he had the RIGHT to live where he wanted to live even though he couldn't get a job there. Funny enough, he did the right thing. So she raised him better than anyone thought she had. Of course he could freeze his ass off in the Midwest so I guess that's a wash. I have a friend who works the lunch shift at McDonald's. Has for many years. Doesn't work nights, weekends, holidays, or times when school is out. She had zero problem getting hired and setting her own hours. She's reliable and wanted part-time work. She didn't expect to live on that salary. Even at full time hours. Why? Because it's a job meant for someone just like her. Even at minimum wage companies, if you're reliable and not a druggie, you can move up. But you start at the bottom and bust your ass. You don't whine that you deserve more money when you actually don't. Just because you take up space on earth does not entitle you. A lesson that needs to be learned. Because parents aren't teaching it. Nice story. If you've plowed through all your resources looking for work, how do you pick up your family and move? How are you going to hire a moving van? How are you going to pay first and last months rent? How?
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 8, 2015 16:02:18 GMT -5
Not enough resources available translates to the pay for eldercare is too low, and the seniors/disabled people that need it don't have the money to pay enough to attract people to the profession. For enough money I'll give your parents/grandparents meds, cook for them, and help them bathe and use the bathroom, but my hourly rate is going to be way higher than most seniors can afford. There are too many other jobs that don't involve getting berated by crotchety old people all day and dealing with human waste. Look at plumbers. They do have to deal with human waste and whatnot. Their hourly rates are higher than the pay rate of most jobs that require a college degree. Home health aids and whatnot get like $10-12 an hour. No way I'm changing adult diapers everyday for that. The pay is too low means there isn't enough demand. We don't like paying plumbers, but we do it because there's no built in expectation that unclogging your toilet is an unalienable human right that someone else will pay for. The fact is that the elderly in this country have not saved and prepared for old age. They've lived their whole lives with the belief that they're owed because they "paid in". They did pay in, but the money is gone. The government borrowed it, and now the kids and grand kids are paying in, and they're not going to get it because their money is going to the elderly whose money was stolen by the government. The whole system is a mess, and it's going to collapse. A lot of people are going to be sicker, and millions are just going to flat out die. The big government deception is the worst in human history. In the end, though, the Gods of the Copybook Headings always come back.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jan 8, 2015 16:08:23 GMT -5
The people filling those jobs are exactly what those jobs were intended for. Part-time workers who need extra cash, high school and college students. People who just want to work part-time. They weren't meant to be lived on. Do you think my friends son wants to freeze his ass off in Dakota? But there were no jobs in Lansing except part time landscaping and snow plowing, supposedly. After doing that for a few years and living with Mom, he decided to better himself. Answered an ad in the paper or online or just heard about it, I suppose. By the grace of GOD his truck made it there and he's doing fine. Could afford to take a month off and come home to visit. But I suppose he had the RIGHT to live where he wanted to live even though he couldn't get a job there. Funny enough, he did the right thing. So she raised him better than anyone thought she had. Of course he could freeze his ass off in the Midwest so I guess that's a wash. I have a friend who works the lunch shift at McDonald's. Has for many years. Doesn't work nights, weekends, holidays, or times when school is out. She had zero problem getting hired and setting her own hours. She's reliable and wanted part-time work. She didn't expect to live on that salary. Even at full time hours. Why? Because it's a job meant for someone just like her. Even at minimum wage companies, if you're reliable and not a druggie, you can move up. But you start at the bottom and bust your ass. You don't whine that you deserve more money when you actually don't. Just because you take up space on earth does not entitle you. A lesson that needs to be learned. Because parents aren't teaching it. Nice story. If you've plowed through all your resources looking for work, how do you pick up your family and move? How are you going to hire a moving van? How are you going to pay first and last months rent? How?
I don't believe you seriously want an answer.
|
|
AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 11:59:07 GMT -5
Posts: 31,709
Favorite Drink: Sweetwater 420
|
Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Jan 8, 2015 16:10:49 GMT -5
Nice story. If you've plowed through all your resources looking for work, how do you pick up your family and move? How are you going to hire a moving van? How are you going to pay first and last months rent? How?
I don't believe you seriously want an answer. What, you mean nobody plans to be a full time ass wiper and bed pan cleaner for life expecting to make enough to support a family of 9?
|
|
weltschmerz
Community Leader
Joined: Jul 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Posts: 38,962
|
Post by weltschmerz on Jan 8, 2015 16:13:49 GMT -5
Nice story. If you've plowed through all your resources looking for work, how do you pick up your family and move? How are you going to hire a moving van? How are you going to pay first and last months rent? How?
I don't believe you seriously want an answer. I don't believe you have one.
|
|
zibazinski
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 16:12:50 GMT -5
Posts: 47,866
|
Post by zibazinski on Jan 8, 2015 16:17:10 GMT -5
I have one but I'm no more going to convince you that you have no rights to money I earned so what would be the point? Simplistically put, save a few bucks for times when you might just need them. Some people actually feel that they should work and support themselves even if it means not doing their dream job or living in their dream area. Or reproducing when they can't support themselves.
|
|