SWAT Raids Wrong House, Grenades Sleeping Baby.

[OldCoyote]

This for those that say the police can do no wrong,  Go ahead defend the police on this.


www.nydailynews.com/news/national/family-1m-medical-bills-tot-burned-swat-raid-article-1.2050396  (fixed)



They did not recommend criminal charges against any of the officers involved.

Is there any point when police might have charges brought against them??

[djAdvocate]

welcome to Jefferson's nightmare.

[billisonboard]

The actual link  

[OldCoyote]

Thanks, bills

[Green Eyed Lady]

I don't think anybody here has ever said that police never do anything wrong. Obviously, they do. They are humans and they make mistakes just like the rest of us. This one is a horrible, horrible mistake. However, I don't think anybody could say there was any intention on the part of the officers to hurt that baby.   They didn't know there were kids in the home. According the to confidential informant who, by the way, purchased methamphetamine from that same house, there were no indications of children being present. The article I read (I can't get your link to work) said the baby's family didn't own that home, but rather were staying there temporarily. 

Had the police known that children were present in the home, they would have proceeded in a different manner.  What this does say to me is that more intelligence is needed before conducting these raids.  They need to be SURE who is present in that home.  That was a huge mistake and it should never happen again.  As for charges?  I guess I don't know.  When your reckless actions cause harm to another, I suppose it's certainly an option.  And I do think their actions were reckless as they didn't know who was inside that house and proceeded without reliable information. 

It's a sad situation and I sure pray that little one recovers.  I also pray his family doesn't continue to place him in harm's way by living in a drug house.

And by the way, it doesn't appear from the article I read that SWAT invaded the wrong house.  Since I can't see your link, I can't compare it to the article I read.

[EVT1]

Must have been a black baby

[mmhmm]

Dec 19, 2014 1:05:34 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Must have been a black baby

What?!? C'mon, EVT. Let's not go there. It's just not necessary.

[EVT1]

Dec 19, 2014 1:07:43 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 19, 2014 1:05:34 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Must have been a black baby

What?!? C'mon, EVT. Let's not go there. It's just not necessary.

The hell it isn't.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

WTF? "Must have been a black baby" is the most ridiculous comment in this thread. It could very well be a "white" baby or "Asian" baby.

From the pics in bills' link, the father of the child appears to be of Asian descent not "black" - or a mix of Asian and African-American ... and the mother is Caucasian.

[mmhmm]

Dec 19, 2014 1:12:03 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Dec 19, 2014 1:07:43 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

What?!? C'mon, EVT. Let's not go there. It's just not necessary.

The hell it isn't.

No, it isn't. The child's father is Laotian. The child's mother is Caucasian. Your statement was patently ridiculous.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I think this is the update of a case we'd talked about previously on the boards. 

[resolution]

I remember previous threads on this. It sounds like the police/local government are still refusing to pay for any of the medical care and the family has hit a million dollars in medical bills.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Here you go @sroo4

I really had to search for it too.  Surprising how fast that got buried. 

www.jsonline.com/news/crime/milwaukee-police-arrest-suspect-in-sexual-assault-of-10-year-old-girl-b99411357z1-286220521.html

... police confirmed early Thursday that an arrest has been made in the sexual assault of a 10-year-old girl on the city's south side.

A 26-year-old man was arrested Wednesday in a residence near S. 12th and W. Madison Streets, a police spokesman said.[\quote]

[OldCoyote]

This news release was day after the raid,  Giving the police  time to consult with their attorneys and the PR people to determine the best spin on how they had done everything right.

www.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=275516

In the mean time the Co. attorney is looking into code violations of the home owner for allowing these people to live in the garage. (sarcasm added by oldcoyote)

 

[Tennesseer]

Dec 19, 2014 9:24:45 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Dec 19, 2014 9:06:36 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Here you go @sroo4

I really had to search for it too.  Surprising how fast that got buried. 

www.jsonline.com/news/crime/milwaukee-police-arrest-suspect-in-sexual-assault-of-10-year-old-girl-b99411357z1-286220521.html

Where'd you find that.. I went to the front page... nope not there.  I went to the Milwaukee news section nope not there... Oh wait I found it 3 clicks in to the crime page in the very small box all the way to the side.   Thanks Beth.  I guess the badgers new coach and the kickboxer getting some medal rate higher than the good police work of MPD.   

Hmm.. .funny there wasn't a full color picture, name, and bios of all the police who investigated this crime and made the arrest. 

Does your picture, name and bio get splashed around your workplace any given work day just because you performed a regular task of your job?

[OldCoyote]

You mean It didn't make headline news that they did the job they were paid to do?

[andi9899]

That poor baby. And their family is going to suffer ths mistake for the rest of their lives. Since when is it protocol to kick a door down and just start throwing grenades around without knowing how many people, if any are in a home? I'm not in law enforcement, so I don't know all their procedures, but surely that's not the way they were trained.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 19, 2014 9:42:44 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

No,  nor does it when I make a mistake. 


Love it when my point is made for me.. 

Does a regular task of your job involve lobbing smoke bombs into rooms when you have no idea who is inside? For example small children?

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2014 9:42:44 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

No,  nor does it when I make a mistake. 


Love it when my point is made for me.. 

Do your mistakes regularly send people to the hospital or the grave?

[OldCoyote]

Just collateral damage, just part of the job, You know these thing just happen,  Geee's,  Sorry about that,  Maybe we will try a little harder next time,

If we (police) can just drag this out a little bit, the memory fades and something will come up and take the heat off of us.  (sarcasm add by oldcoyote)

[OldCoyote]

This is going to be on TV, It will be interesting to see how the police investigation matches up to the news investigation. 

[Tennesseer]

"I more than agree it was a tragic thing to happen,  but I don't understand how police following their procedures (which I might add were put in place for everyone's safety) justify the police bashing."

Whose safety? In this incident, not everyone's safety. 

[bean29]

Dec 19, 2014 10:06:37 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Sure they could.  


---
Actually back to the original raid.  I tried to follow up on the story,  but not surprisingly the details were a bit thin.   

From what I understand, an undercover police office bought drugs from the house on the previous day from the suspect.. didn't catch his name,  we'll call him Bob.
Based on that they asked for a search warrant for the house 
They were granted a search warrant
They served the search warrant
Tragic situation occurs
Bob was not at the residence at the time
They later arrested Bob for possession

What I didn't see,  was that they had knowledge that there was a baby in the house.  I also didn't see where they purposely threw the flash-bang at the baby. 

I more than agree it was a tragic thing to happen,  but I don't understand how police following their procedures (which I might add were put in place for everyone's safety) justify the police bashing. 

Sroo, I agree with everything above, but as the baby was accidentally injured in the course of a police raid/investigation shouldn't the county/city/state be paying the medical bills?  I don't think it was a criminal or negligent act though.

[resolution]

It is at least negligent if not criminal, considering there was a van with four car seats parked in the driveway and a play pen sitting outside in front of the house.

[OldCoyote]

Really poor police work,  Another case of poor police work was the police shooting of Jose Guerena in Tucson.

That cost the taxpayers $3.5 million and the police nothing.

[Deleted]

Dec 19, 2014 11:21:01 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Dec 19, 2014 9:49:08 GMT -5 andi9899 said:

That poor baby. And their family is going to suffer ths mistake for the rest of their lives. Since when is it protocol to kick a door down and just start throwing grenades around without knowing how many people, if any are in a home? I'm not in law enforcement, so I don't know all their procedures, but surely that's not the way they were trained.

Not grenades... flash bang.  

Yes they are trained to do this.  What the hell are they supposed to do while serving a warrant?  Knock on the door politely while the crack den arms themselves and starts shooting?

Knock Knock... hello Mr. Drug Dealer.  Are you home? Yoohoo... No worries you take your time destroying evidence, loading your gun and taking position.  We'll just wait out here while until you are ready. What you need some time to prepare your human shields,  OK, take your time don't rush on our account. 

Well, somehow they managed to arrest the guy they were looking for......by knocking on the door and serving the warrant, during daylight hours, with no guns drawn.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 19, 2014 11:27:51 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Dec 19, 2014 10:41:45 GMT -5 resolution said:

It is at least negligent if not criminal, considering there was a van with four car seats parked in the driveway and a play pen sitting outside in front of the house.

Gosh if all I had to do was put some props out on my lawn and I'd never have a warrant served... 

Did it occur to you that criminals aren't the most truthful people in the world?

Do you really think any of those officers woke up that morning and said to themselves.  "Gee it seems like a good day to hurt a baby" 

non-criminals are not particularly truthful, either. 

really, we need to change how we police in this country.  it really has reached a very bad spot, imo.

[mmhmm]

Dec 19, 2014 12:00:01 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Dec 19, 2014 11:27:51 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

Gosh if all I had to do was put some props out on my lawn and I'd never have a warrant served... 

Did it occur to you that criminals aren't the most truthful people in the world?

Do you really think any of those officers woke up that morning and said to themselves.  "Gee it seems like a good day to hurt a baby" 

non-criminals are not particularly truthful, either. 

really, we need to change how we police in this country.  it really has reached a very bad spot, imo.

It has, dj. This kind of thing is just horrifying. No, I don't believe the actions of the police were criminal. There was no intent to injure that child. I understand how the grand jury reached its decision, I think. However, what can we do to keep this sort of thing from happening? I don't have the answers. It's not only in drug busts this kind of thing occurs, so decriminalizing drugs isn't the whole answer.

[djAdvocate]

Dec 19, 2014 12:22:54 GMT -5 @sroo4 said:

However, what can we do to keep this sort of thing from happening? I don't have the answers.

Mmhmm,  I think this is the biggest problem.  

The obvious answer is for criminals to stop committing crimes and/or to stop being a threat to the public and the police.     However,  that's never going to happen. 

The criminals have gotten worse, more brazen, to be a bigger threat etc.  And the police have ramped up response accordingly. 


I think one thing that the general public loses sight of is the day in day out dealings with criminals.  The police now have to act based on the lowest common denominator.  Is every person out there gunning for them,  no.  Are enough people gunning for them that everyone needs to be considered a potential threat,  yes I think so. 

Take the comment about the baby stuff in the front yard.   In a rational world,  Yes that should be strong indicator that a child is inside.  But in the criminal world,  it's not.   How many stories do you see where people shoplift via the baby carriage? How many news reports have you seen where the drugs and guns were hidden in the baby crib?  How many stories do we see where baby is used as a human shield?  

So I ask,  what laws should the police enforce?   Should they not conduct search warrants because someone might get hurt?   Should they not be allowed to use flash bangs?  Should we disarm the police? To all of the armchair quarterbacks out there... what is your solution  

i don't think criminals are the problem at all, actually.

every country has criminals.  but not all countries beat the shit out of them, attack them with tanks and grenades, or kill them.

we need to do better than our criminals.  and we need to do it now.  time to stop making excuses.

[djAdvocate]

i have found the police verbal response to all of these cases VERY DISTURBING.  they basically say "it is us versus them, let's stick together".  there is very little dissent.  there is very little admission that there is an actual problem.  that tells me the problem is VERY deep and VERY systemic.  it is quite a bit like the torture program.  most people IN THE PROGRAM think they did the right thing- wheras an objective observer outside the program can say that they did NOT do the right thing.  how we police is the same thing.  there is obviously an "excessive force" problem.  i think we can get at it- but it means developing new protocols for policing and "community building".

here is the problem: we can't do that until the police admit there is a problem.