b2r
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Post by b2r on Dec 11, 2014 20:56:39 GMT -5
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 11, 2014 22:41:41 GMT -5
Sounds like a valid claim. What's the problem?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 12, 2014 7:13:41 GMT -5
Too bad dog didn't do the job. Bad dog!
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Dec 12, 2014 9:05:16 GMT -5
How's it different than a police dog taking down a suspect until the police can get to him/her?
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 12, 2014 9:10:12 GMT -5
Because, whine, it's not "civilized." Whats not civilized is the fact that invaders should be shot on sight. Especially those carrying drugs.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 12, 2014 9:14:33 GMT -5
Another outstanding example of the kind of honest person who doesn't want to break any of our laws or suck money from the taxpayers. Just want we want to invite more of to this country.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 12, 2014 9:16:28 GMT -5
b2r - your link doesn't work - will you please check and see if you can post to the article? Thanks
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 12, 2014 9:23:30 GMT -5
Non citizens should be entitled to NOTHING including a right to sue.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 12, 2014 10:21:48 GMT -5
"Non citizens [here illegally] should be entitled to NOTHING including a right to sue."
Fixed?
Non-citizens here legally should be allowed the right to sue.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 12, 2014 10:23:44 GMT -5
Yes. As long as they're not on the dole. If they're on the dole, they should be deported back to where they are from.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 12, 2014 10:26:02 GMT -5
Non citizens [here illegally] should be entitled to NOTHING including a right to sue. Non-citizens here legally should be allowed the right to sue. I think anyone is entitled to basic human rights - life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (ie we don't have the right to shoot to kill simply because they are here illegally) However, the right to sue is not, what I would consider, a basic human right. AND just to clarify - I don't consider it a human right the liberty to live wherever you want without permission.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 12, 2014 10:52:45 GMT -5
Non citizens [here illegally] should be entitled to NOTHING including a right to sue. Non-citizens here legally should be allowed the right to sue. I think anyone is entitled to basic human rights - life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (ie we don't have the right to shoot to kill simply because they are here illegally) However, the right to sue is not, what I would consider, a basic human right. AND just to clarify - I don't consider it a human right the liberty to live wherever you want without permission. Just so I understand your position: Are you of the opinion foreign nationals here on a Green card or H-2A or H-2B visa should not be allowed to sue, say if they were injured in a car crash or some other type of event which was not their fault?
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Dec 12, 2014 11:08:04 GMT -5
How's it different than a police dog taking down a suspect until the police can get to him/her? from the OP, it sounds as though he was already restrained/arrested, no? police dogs aren't generally allowed to chew on suspects already in custody.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 12, 2014 11:11:23 GMT -5
I think anyone is entitled to basic human rights - life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (ie we don't have the right to shoot to kill simply because they are here illegally) However, the right to sue is not, what I would consider, a basic human right. AND just to clarify - I don't consider it a human right the liberty to live wherever you want without permission. Just so I understand your position: Are you of the opinion foreign nationals here on a Green card or H-2A or H-2B visa should not be allowed to sue, say if they were injured in a car crash or some other type of event which was not their fault? If they are following our rules and abiding by our laws they have all the rights of US Citizens.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 12, 2014 11:21:13 GMT -5
How's it different than a police dog taking down a suspect until the police can get to him/her? from the OP, it sounds as though he was already restrained/arrested, no? police dogs aren't generally allowed to chew on suspects already in custody. I read the OP differently, the guy chewed up was not restrained/arrested - the police were up on the hill wrapping that up with someone else. It apparently took them a few minutes (how long is not exactly specified) to get from the guy they had restrained to the guy at the bottom of the hill who had been sleeping. He was not restrained when the dog went after him. As the agents apprehended and detained the man, the dog remained unleashed, and ran down the hill to where Marino was sleeping. Marino says that the Border Patrol agents ignored his cries for help, allowing the dog to maul his arm for several minutes before putting the canine back on the leash. The claim states that the man who had already been detained could see the dog biting Marino’s arm from where he and the agents were standing, and could hear Marino crying for help.
One way or another I have a problem with this. Police dogs are highly trained and intelligent (as supposedly are their handlers) and I thought they don't attack unless ordered to or unless they assess a threat to their handler, or if they see someone running away. Something doesn't sound right either way here.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Dec 12, 2014 11:25:21 GMT -5
Agreed, Captain. My guess is there's more to the real story other than some poor guy with drugs sleeping under a tree minding his own business and being attacked by a dog.
I'll wait for the rest of the story. I could "claim" the dog actually planted the drugs on me but that doesn't mean it's true.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Dec 12, 2014 11:29:23 GMT -5
I guess I took it to mean that he dozed off after already being restrained. if he's restrained, what else is there to do while he's sitting there? I didn't read the link, I will say. just the OP.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 12, 2014 15:46:22 GMT -5
I would argue the right to sue is a basic human right- how else can people settle things in a civilized society?
People or entities that wrong people should not get a pass because of who the victim is. That makes no sense.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 12, 2014 16:06:18 GMT -5
I would argue the right to sue is a basic human right- how else can people settle things in a civilized society?
People or entities that wrong people should not get a pass because of who the victim is. That makes no sense.
I don't think the law agrees with you: "jurisdiction simply means a court's power to hear and decide a case. The U.S. and state constitutions, as well as federal and state laws, grant and limit courts' jurisdiction. To make a legally valid decision, a court must have both subject matter jurisdiction (power to hear the kind of case a lawsuit involves) and personal jurisdiction (power over the parties involved in the lawsuit)." www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/subject-matter-jurisdiction-state-federal-29884.htmlI'm not sure how this guy can file given the supposedly aggrieved party is not in the US.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Dec 12, 2014 16:15:05 GMT -5
Because, whine, it's not "civilized." Whats not civilized is the fact that invaders should be shot on sight. Especially those carrying drugs. How do we know they are invaders on sight?
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Dec 12, 2014 16:17:06 GMT -5
swamp - I'm actually glad you chimed in. I thought in order to be involved in a lawsuit the courts had to have jurisdiction over you (see my link in earlier post). Since this guy is now in another country and not a US citizen I'm not sure how he can sue? Any ideas?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Dec 12, 2014 16:18:12 GMT -5
I would argue the right to sue is a basic human right- how else can people settle things in a civilized society?
People or entities that wrong people should not get a pass because of who the victim is. That makes no sense.
I don't think the law agrees with you: "jurisdiction simply means a court's power to hear and decide a case. The U.S. and state constitutions, as well as federal and state laws, grant and limit courts' jurisdiction. To make a legally valid decision, a court must have both subject matter jurisdiction (power to hear the kind of case a lawsuit involves) and personal jurisdiction (power over the parties involved in the lawsuit)." www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/subject-matter-jurisdiction-state-federal-29884.htmlI'm not sure how this guy can file given the supposedly aggrieved party is not in the US. the action happened in the US, so he has a right to sue here, where the incident occurred. He was here when it happened, so the court has personal jurisdiction over him.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 12, 2014 18:27:20 GMT -5
Swamp beat me to it- but I was going to illustrate how under your theory we might as well let every illegal alien that committed a crime out of jail and quit arresting them since the courts have no jurisdiction
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 19:22:30 GMT -5
Just so I understand your position: Are you of the opinion foreign nationals here on a Green card or H-2A or H-2B visa should not be allowed to sue, say if they were injured in a car crash or some other type of event which was not their fault? If they are following our rules and abiding by our laws they have all the rights of US Citizens. Well... not ALL of them. They shouldn't be allowed to vote, for example.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Dec 12, 2014 20:31:49 GMT -5
nor do they have the right to vote
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 21:37:44 GMT -5
nor do they have the right to vote Yeah... that was kind of my point. See what I quoted, to see the reasoning behind my statement.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Dec 15, 2014 13:52:20 GMT -5
I would argue the right to sue is a basic human right- how else can people settle things in a civilized society?
People or entities that wrong people should not get a pass because of who the victim is. That makes no sense.
I do think there is something to be said for setting limits for what a person can sue for if that person is in the middle of a crime (i.e. homeowners should not be able to be sued when a person breaking into their home gets hurt). I already have an issue with people being able to sue over issues that are not meant to cause harm, but still may...like a person getting hurt on a trampoline and the homeowner being liable.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 15, 2014 18:35:58 GMT -5
There are some limits like that.
Depends on the circumstances in your examples- if the trampoline was just left out in a yard or a homeowner sets a shotgun trap tied to the door of a shed or garage- or actually sits there waiting with one like that one man- course no point in suing some in jail for the rest of their life.
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Politically_Incorrect12
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Post by Politically_Incorrect12 on Dec 17, 2014 13:25:20 GMT -5
There are some limits like that.
Depends on the circumstances in your examples- if the trampoline was just left out in a yard or a homeowner sets a shotgun trap tied to the door of a shed or garage- or actually sits there waiting with one like that one man- course no point in suing some in jail for the rest of their life.
It's the homeowners yard...why shouldn't they be allowed to leave it out in their yard?
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 17, 2014 14:22:35 GMT -5
Attractive nuisance- if you had a fence you could. I am referring to young children though- if some older kid breaks their arm it's on them.
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