Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 21:14:29 GMT -5
I don't either (well, except for death penalty cases because I am against it).
But such is the system we have- I am sure people that are injured or screwed over by corporations don't like having to wait around years to collect a judgment either.
The genius behind life in prison is that that sentence is carried out immediately and saves a shitload of money of course.
I think we had this conversation before and your solution required an upheaval of the entire legal system. Don't see that happening so we are where we are- if people want their pound of flesh they are going to have to wait a decade or two to get it. BS. Cost to execute: Cost to imprison PER YEAR: I could be wrong, but last time I checked, $1,286.86 was MUCH less than $31,307 (and let's not even get into comparing $1,286.86 to $60,000 or more for "Super-Max" level incarceration). If you have a problem with the cost of the TRIAL, work of fixing the waste in the TRIAL. ETA: Oh, and that $1,286.86 is a one time expense... whereas the annual cost to house an inmate repeats (many times, at an increase in cost... so it's not that same figure 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 years down the road) every year.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 11, 2014 23:00:24 GMT -5
I think that is why more victims take the law into their own hands. The legal system protects the criminal, not the victims. When a criminal is killed, either by a policeman or a citizen carrying a gun, countless lives and dollars are saved. The legal system is set up to protect the innocent and serves as a check to police/government power. That is the entire basis of it.
The problem you have is that the huge majority of people arrested are guilty- and you see due process as a roadblock to swift justice.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 11, 2014 23:07:55 GMT -5
I don't either (well, except for death penalty cases because I am against it).
But such is the system we have- I am sure people that are injured or screwed over by corporations don't like having to wait around years to collect a judgment either.
The genius behind life in prison is that that sentence is carried out immediately and saves a shitload of money of course.
I think we had this conversation before and your solution required an upheaval of the entire legal system. Don't see that happening so we are where we are- if people want their pound of flesh they are going to have to wait a decade or two to get it. BS. Nope- pure unadulterated facts that are not in dispute by anyone except you I guess.
But of course you are comparing your perfect version of a legal system with the one that exists.
You are 100% wrong- how many languages would you like me to state that in
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 11, 2014 23:19:54 GMT -5
For some reason you like these semantic arguments- and to indulge this nonsense because I am waiting on food:
Cost to execute someone as reported by you- 83 bucks worth of drugs
Not included: about ten paragraphs worth of expenses spanning probably ten years if not twenty.
It is a cold hard fact that from date of incarceration to date of death it is much cheaper to sentence someone to life without parole.
Of course there are exceptions- like McVeigh the RW lunatic that blew up the Federal building in OK- he waived all appeals and pushed for death- he probably saved some cash.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2014 23:52:03 GMT -5
For some reason you like these semantic arguments- and to indulge this nonsense because I am waiting on food:
Cost to execute someone as reported by you- 83 bucks worth of drugs
Not included: about ten paragraphs worth of expenses spanning probably ten years if not twenty.
It is a cold hard fact that from date of incarceration to date of death it is much cheaper to sentence someone to life without parole.
Of course there are exceptions- like McVeigh the RW lunatic that blew up the Federal building in OK- he waived all appeals and pushed for death- he probably saved some cash. As I said, if you don't like the costs of the TRIALS, fix the cost of the TRIALS. Don't confuse the facts (something most anti-DP people just LOVE to do). The cost of the INCARCERATION is hundreds to thousands if not millions of times greater than the cost of an EXECUTION.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Dec 12, 2014 8:42:39 GMT -5
I am one that does not believe the government should be putting people to death. This is fucked up, though. 100% with you on both counts. in cases like this , I'm a firm believer in "inmate justice" - people that commit such atrocious crimes as this don't often last long behind bars if released to the general population. look up Fr John Geoghan for an example from my area. he was a defrocked Catholic priest from MA. news of his crimes hit the local media around the time that I was old enough to understand what the reports meant. he didn't last long in prison at all.....and may his soul rot in hell for his crimes against children. I have a problem with this. We either punish openly, via the courts or we don't. We don't use/let the inmates decide on justice. We let the courts do that. I'm not phrasing it well but we punish openly or we don't use that punishment. I'm not against the death penalty but I am against encouraging people to commit murder, in the name of gov't, civiliations or God. We fix or change the system, not commit murder because we think someone should die. And I don't think the people actually doing the work of following though on a death penalty to be murderers or murdering someone. But if an inmate kills someone else in the prison population, yes, it is murder and they should be prosecuted for that, not given a pat on the head. And don't get me wrong - you abuse a kid, I'm right there with you on wanting them dead. Wishing them dead. Hoping they rot in hell. And not too sad if they do die via the general population of a prison. But I think it's wrong to toss them into the general population and expect the prisoners to do what we're too naive, too scared, too weak, too civilized, too something to do on our own. If the punishment and laws don't agree with what the majority of the people believe to be proper punishment; we write our gov't. We call. We email. We protest. We tweet. We change it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 8:52:16 GMT -5
For some reason you like these semantic arguments- and to indulge this nonsense because I am waiting on food:
Cost to execute someone as reported by you- 83 bucks worth of drugs
Not included: about ten paragraphs worth of expenses spanning probably ten years if not twenty.
It is a cold hard fact that from date of incarceration to date of death it is much cheaper to sentence someone to life without parole.
Of course there are exceptions- like McVeigh the RW lunatic that blew up the Federal building in OK- he waived all appeals and pushed for death- he probably saved some cash. As I said, if you don't like the costs of the TRIALS, fix the cost of the TRIALS. Don't confuse the facts (something most anti-DP people just LOVE to do). The cost of the INCARCERATION is hundreds to thousands if not millions of times greater than the cost of an EXECUTION. While those complex debates rage on, some like to point fingers at perhaps the most simple reason to support the death penalty: It’s cheaper to kill an inmate than to keep an inmate alive. That may not, however, be true. “It’s 10 times more expensive to kill them than to keep them alive,”says Donald McCartin, known as The Hanging Judge of Orange County. McCartin knows a little bit about executions: he has sent nine men to death row. www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/05/01/considering-the-death-penalty-your-tax-dollars-at-work/Oops tell us about your "facts"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 18:57:22 GMT -5
As I said, if you don't like the costs of the TRIALS, fix the cost of the TRIALS. Don't confuse the facts (something most anti-DP people just LOVE to do). The cost of the INCARCERATION is hundreds to thousands if not millions of times greater than the cost of an EXECUTION. While those complex debates rage on, some like to point fingers at perhaps the most simple reason to support the death penalty: It’s cheaper to kill an inmate than to keep an inmate alive. That may not, however, be true. “It’s 10 times more expensive to kill them than to keep them alive,”says Donald McCartin, known as The Hanging Judge of Orange County. McCartin knows a little bit about executions: he has sent nine men to death row. www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/05/01/considering-the-death-penalty-your-tax-dollars-at-work/Oops tell us about your "facts" I posted the facts. Your link is an example of posting confusion. They are mixing in the cost of the TRIAL with the cost of the PUNISHMENT. They are also (and I forgot to mention this earlier) including the expenses for the longer incarceration (in a Super-Max prison) while they have 10-20 YEARS of appeals. I'll say it one more time: If you have an issue with the cost of the TRIALS (and the included expenses of longer incarcerations, before the sentence is carried out) address the problems with the cost of the TRIALS. Personally I agree that the costs of the TRIALS are outrageous, and something should be done about them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 19:32:46 GMT -5
While those complex debates rage on, some like to point fingers at perhaps the most simple reason to support the death penalty: It’s cheaper to kill an inmate than to keep an inmate alive. That may not, however, be true. “It’s 10 times more expensive to kill them than to keep them alive,”says Donald McCartin, known as The Hanging Judge of Orange County. McCartin knows a little bit about executions: he has sent nine men to death row. www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/05/01/considering-the-death-penalty-your-tax-dollars-at-work/Oops tell us about your "facts" I posted the facts. Your link is an example of posting confusion. They are mixing in the cost of the TRIAL with the cost of the PUNISHMENT. They are also (and I forgot to mention this earlier) including the expenses for the longer incarceration (in a Super-Max prison) while they have 10-20 YEARS of appeals. I'll say it one more time: If you have an issue with the cost of the TRIALS (and the included expenses of longer incarcerations, before the sentence is carried out) address the problems with the cost of the TRIALS. Personally I agree that the costs of the TRIALS are outrageous, and something should be done about them. ROFL always you try to play magic and divide and mix up details ***YOUR**** way so you can think you are right and your your opinions are facts. Its not possible to discuss with you because your your ego can't understand what are FACTS.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2014 21:44:34 GMT -5
I posted the facts. Your link is an example of posting confusion. They are mixing in the cost of the TRIAL with the cost of the PUNISHMENT. They are also (and I forgot to mention this earlier) including the expenses for the longer incarceration (in a Super-Max prison) while they have 10-20 YEARS of appeals. I'll say it one more time: If you have an issue with the cost of the TRIALS (and the included expenses of longer incarcerations, before the sentence is carried out) address the problems with the cost of the TRIALS. Personally I agree that the costs of the TRIALS are outrageous, and something should be done about them. ROFL always you try to play magic and divide and mix up details ***YOUR**** way so you can think you are right and your your opinions are facts. Its not possible to discuss with you because your your ego can't understand what are FACTS. Careful. (and no, that's not ego talking... insulting members is against CoC) But, to address your point, ignoring the insult. I posted the facts. (there were links to these in my earlier post) Fact: It costs Texas (had to use some state as an example) $1,286.86 to execute a person. Fact: It costs (on average) $31,307 PER YEAR to incarcerate a person. There's no link to this, but any calculator can prove this FACT for you... $1,286.86 is LESS THAN $31,307.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 0:32:33 GMT -5
ROFL always you try to play magic and divide and mix up details ***YOUR**** way so you can think you are right and your your opinions are facts. Its not possible to discuss with you because your your ego can't understand what are FACTS. Careful. (and no, that's not ego talking... insulting members is against CoC) But, to address your point, ignoring the insult. I posted the facts. (there were links to these in my earlier post) Fact: It costs Texas (had to use some state as an example) $1,286.86 to execute a person. Fact: It costs (on average) $31,307 PER YEAR to incarcerate a person. There's no link to this, but any calculator can prove this FACT for you... $1,286.86 is LESS THAN $31,307. No link. Hmmm. Big surprise. Here are my "facts" with out a link. Cost to put some body in jail = usd $2/year Cost to execute = usd $2,435,677,743,664,993.27 Wow how easy to make facts!!
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 13, 2014 2:30:16 GMT -5
Don't get sucked into the word games. The facts are indisputable- the death penalty (which includes all associated costs) is a fiscal loser.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 6:26:23 GMT -5
Don't get sucked into the word games. The facts are indisputable- the death penalty (which includes all associated costs) is a fiscal loser. While I agree that the facts are indisputable, how you can say $31,307 is LESS THAN $1,286.86, is beyond comprehension, and it's not a factual statement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 6:31:32 GMT -5
Careful. (and no, that's not ego talking... insulting members is against CoC) But, to address your point, ignoring the insult. I posted the facts. (there were links to these in my earlier post) Fact: It costs Texas (had to use some state as an example) $1,286.86 to execute a person. Fact: It costs (on average) $31,307 PER YEAR to incarcerate a person. There's no link to this, but any calculator can prove this FACT for you... $1,286.86 is LESS THAN $31,307. No link. Hmmm. Big surprise. Here are my "facts" with out a link. Cost to put some body in jail = usd $2/year Cost to execute = usd $2,435,677,743,664,993.27 Wow how easy to make facts!! You made up numbers out of thin air. I gave you verifiable numbers (with links)... You lose the argument. Might want to re-read what I wrote... the only thing I didn't provide a link for was a CALCULATOR. Every computer in modern existence has one built in, standard (unless it's been deleted by the computer's owner)... so a link to a CALCULATOR was not expected to be required. However.... if it's a link to a calculator you need... here's one: Online Calculator
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 12:09:55 GMT -5
No link. Hmmm. Big surprise. Here are my "facts" with out a link. Cost to put some body in jail = usd $2/year Cost to execute = usd $2,435,677,743,664,993.27 Wow how easy to make facts!! You made up numbers out of thin air. I gave you verifiable numbers (with links)... You lose the argument. Might want to re-read what I wrote... the only thing I didn't provide a link for was a CALCULATOR. Every computer in modern existence has one built in, standard (unless it's been deleted by the computer's owner)... so a link to a CALCULATOR was not expected to be required. However.... if it's a link to a calculator you need... here's one: Online CalculatorIt is not hard to understand. You like to play weird games and ouch out what data and definitions we better use. You lose because it is not for you to decide everything all we gotta obey. Its all I'm gonna tell you I'm gonna discuss with people that don't play games.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 19:04:28 GMT -5
You made up numbers out of thin air. I gave you verifiable numbers (with links)... You lose the argument. Might want to re-read what I wrote... the only thing I didn't provide a link for was a CALCULATOR. Every computer in modern existence has one built in, standard (unless it's been deleted by the computer's owner)... so a link to a CALCULATOR was not expected to be required. However.... if it's a link to a calculator you need... here's one: Online CalculatorIt is not hard to understand. You like to play weird games and ouch out what data and definitions we better use. You lose because it is not for you to decide everything all we gotta obey. Its all I'm gonna tell you I'm gonna discuss with people that don't play games. You talk about you don't want to discuss with people that play games, yet that's exactly what you are doing. You and other that mix TRIAL COSTS (including extended incarceration because of drawn out appeals) and PUNISHMENT COSTS are doing exactly that. Playing games. I'm not the one mixing TRIAL COSTS (including extended incarceration because of drawn out appeals) and PUNISHMENT COSTS together in an effort to feel better about flawed reasoning.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 13, 2014 20:13:41 GMT -5
Come on man- let's get to the meat and potatoes. Situation A and B:
A) Person is charged with a capital offense and the prosecutor intends to seeks the death penalty
B) Exactly the same exact sets of facts and circumstances and the prosecutor intends to seek life without possibility of parole
Which is going to cost the state more when it is all said and done- from the time of charges to the death of the person?
And of course nothing specific- average aged person, average lifespan, etc. Which option from a purely fiscal standpoint is the better policy?
Since the answer to that is known I ask what reasons are left to keep the death penalty. A deterrent? No proof of that but plenty of proof to the contrary. Doesn't leave much- which is why whenever a horrific crime happens people throw that out as some extra special reason to keep doing it- which is a dumb reason.
If that was a good reason then we might as well take some pig like Blankenship, or maybe some of the other executives that through their decisions let people burn alive so they could make more profits and execute them too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 20:54:03 GMT -5
Come on man- let's get to the meat and potatoes. Situation A and B:
A) Person is charged with a capital offense and the prosecutor intends to seeks the death penalty
B) Exactly the same exact sets of facts and circumstances and the prosecutor intends to seek life without possibility of parole
Which is going to cost the state more when it is all said and done- from the time of charges to the death of the person?
And of course nothing specific- average aged person, average lifespan, etc. Which option from a purely fiscal standpoint is the better policy?
Since the answer to that is known I ask what reasons are left to keep the death penalty. A deterrent? No proof of that but plenty of proof to the contrary. Doesn't leave much- which is why whenever a horrific crime happens people throw that out as some extra special reason to keep doing it- which is a dumb reason.
If that was a good reason then we might as well take some pig like Blankenship, or maybe some of the other executives that through their decisions let people burn alive so they could make more profits and execute them too. That's all issues about the TRIALS. And, remember, I agreed with you that the cost of DP TRIALS is outrageous. When everything is said and done however, once a sentence is ready to be carried out, finally, and with no appeals left to be processed... From that point FORWARD, NOT including costs of the trials and extended incarceration due to extended appeals, which costs more, incarceration for life ($31,307, average, annually)... or execution ($1,286.86 one time)? As for the question of "is it really a deterrent?"... it might BE a deterrent if it was enforced like it should be. If more people that murder were sentenced to death, and then those sentences carried out in a reasonable amount of time (6 months or less after sentencing)... more people MIGHT take that into consideration before they go down that road too.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 13, 2014 21:12:40 GMT -5
You cannot unmingle the two.
When the state seeks death- that entails a huge expense to get there- and of course at that point the state is paying for both the defense and prosecution, the maintenance of a death chamber and death row.
The appeals are very long and very involved- and I have stated before the numerous trips up the ladder a death penalty case can get in both federal and state court.
And of course now we have to add the added cost of lawyers that are equipped to handle death penalty cases and appeals lest they run afoul of the second leg of appeals.
The government pass to kill a citizen is really high bar- and you know what- it isn't high enough to keep innocent people off of death row. So again- why are we doing this?
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Dec 13, 2014 21:21:26 GMT -5
I know and understand that some people are against death sentencing. I can respect that! People see issues in different ways and that's what makes us unique individuals. But there is no way that someone can explain and prove to me that it is cheaper to keep a cold blooded murderer in jail for life (say 30 yrs!) than expedite sentence. The problem with our system is that it takes too long for the sentence to be carried out and that accrues unnecessary costs. The decision is made on a case, the appeals ( because said individuals have the right to) should be processed in the legaly alloted time and not dragged out for years on end, the sentence carried out, period. That would be a total of about 180-250 days after sentencing. But no! The inmate has a cold and we cannot execute a sick person because is inhumane, the sodium pentathol hurts and is inhumane, blah,blah, blah! 20-30 years pass by and that costs a pile of money. In the state of Pa it costs about $40,000 a year to house, feed, keep clothed an individual. Twice as much(or more) than educating a high school kid. I for one, am against violence in any form. Seen and experienced it first hand. There is no greater offense or more abhorrent action than that of taking another's life intentionally. Execution however is different because the killer disregarded somebody's else's right to a life so ultimately is eye for an eye. Is that morally right? Maybe not but for all intents and purposes I personaly feel that is right. It might even be a deterrent to some extent if the system would work with efficiency. And the jurors that made the decision should be the ones present at the execution
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 13, 2014 21:22:35 GMT -5
But I think I have agreed with you in the past on this as my idea was to change the burden of proof in death penalty cases to beyond all doubt. If it meets that burden I have no problem with it. What I cannot stand for is the possibility of people executed on the basis of eyewitness or circumstantial evidence.
I direct back to the Willingham case in TX- he was put to death on testimony from non-scientists and as best I can tell that he liked Iron Maiden. In that case the only way it was a homicide was based on whether or not the fire was set. Perry could have stopped it, yet he did the exact opposite and intentionally fucked with the investigation- hence why governor goggles has blood on his hands.
And in a weird way it recalls to me the West Memphis Three that were railroaded onto death row because of more bullshit than I am going to get into.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 21:29:13 GMT -5
You cannot unmingle the two.
When the state seeks death- that entails a huge expense to get there- and of course at that point the state is paying for both the defense and prosecution, the maintenance of a death chamber and death row.
The appeals are very long and very involved- and I have stated before the numerous trips up the ladder a death penalty case can get in both federal and state court.
And of course now we have to add the added cost of lawyers that are equipped to handle death penalty cases and appeals lest they run afoul of the second leg of appeals.
The government pass to kill a citizen is really high bar- and you know what- it isn't high enough to keep innocent people off of death row. So again- why are we doing this? Bolded: Yes, you actually can. As far as how to reduce the costs associated with D.P. cases... here's a few suggestions: - Make D.P. cases have the same TRIAL REQUIREMENTS as L.I.P.W/O.P. trial requirements (guilty is guilty, innocent is innocent, they should already have the same requirements... prove them guilty beyond all reasonable doubt... but since there's this supposed difference in the cost of trying D.P. cases... fix it!).
- Limit the appeals to an "all in one" appeal hearing, not a separate appeal for each item a lawyer can come up with
- Limit the time for appeals to 6 months.
There could be more ways to improve the system... but we could start with those.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 21:30:46 GMT -5
Already innocent people get executed how many more its OK to execute so they will save money and limit appeals.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 13, 2014 21:33:49 GMT -5
I know and understand that some people are against death sentencing. I can respect that! People see issues in different ways and that's what makes us unique individuals. But there is no way that someone can explain and prove to me that it is cheaper to keep a cold blooded murderer in jail for life (say 30 yrs!) than expedite sentence. I for one, am against violence in any form. Seen and experienced it first hand. There is no greater offense or more abhorrent action than that of taking another's life intentionally. Execution however is different because the killer disregarded somebody's else's right to a life so ultimately is eye for an eye. Is that morally right? Maybe not but for all intents and purposes I personaly feel that is right. It might even be a deterrent to some extent if the system would work with efficiency. And the jurors that made the decision should be the ones present at the execution And that is the issue for you I guess- the need to expedite. And if history has shown anything it shows the fact that it moves so slow has saved many innocent lives. Does that not bother you?
Are you in the Virgil club that it is acceptable for the government to kill a percentage of innocent citizens as long as we get most of the guilty?
How high are you willing to go? 1% innocent killed? 10%? Where is the cutoff where enough is enough?
And interestingly enough I got called for jury duty on a death penalty case- while I was going through it in my head whether I could even serve the judge came down and announced a plea deal- and I knew the judge because he taught me evidence in law school I would have gotten out of it. But it did get me thinking about the questionnaire I never saw and whether it was going to attempt to death qualify the jury- which to me is bullshit from the outset.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 13, 2014 21:42:42 GMT -5
As far as how to reduce the costs associated with D.P. cases... here's a few suggestions: - Make D.P. cases have the same TRIAL REQUIREMENTS as L.I.P.W/O.P. trial requirements (guilty is guilty, innocent is innocent, they should already have the same requirements... prove them guilty beyond all reasonable doubt... but since there's this supposed difference in the cost of trying D.P. cases... fix it!).
- Limit the appeals to an "all in one" appeal hearing, not a separate appeal for each item a lawyer can come up with
- Limit the time for appeals to 6 months.
There could be more ways to improve the system... but we could start with those.
They do have the same trial requirements other than a separate sentencing phase that if not done the DP would still be illegal.
There is not a separate appeal for each item and the appeals run the process that is the same for everyone- you cannot fast track death penalty appeals without violating the Constitution. All relevant issues are brought up on appeal- but there is a state/federal overlap
You cannot limit the time for appeals to be heard, only the limit on pleadings, filing motions, etc. And again you would be prioritizing death penalty cases violating the Constitution.
So- no- you cannot start with those.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 21:43:11 GMT -5
With modern forensics, a "false guilty" is much more rare than it used to be. I don't advocate "expedited carryout of sentencing" to convicts convicted 20 years ago... but consider it a good idea from this time frame forward.
Also, DA's should only even consider seeking D.P. when it's a "slam-dunk" case (video of the person committing the act, for example).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2014 21:54:30 GMT -5
As far as how to reduce the costs associated with D.P. cases... here's a few suggestions: - Make D.P. cases have the same TRIAL REQUIREMENTS as L.I.P.W/O.P. trial requirements (guilty is guilty, innocent is innocent, they should already have the same requirements... prove them guilty beyond all reasonable doubt... but since there's this supposed difference in the cost of trying D.P. cases... fix it!).
- Limit the appeals to an "all in one" appeal hearing, not a separate appeal for each item a lawyer can come up with
- Limit the time for appeals to 6 months.
There could be more ways to improve the system... but we could start with those.
They do have the same trial requirements other than a separate sentencing phase that if not done the DP would still be illegal.
There is not a separate appeal for each item and the appeals run the process that is the same for everyone- you cannot fast track death penalty appeals without violating the Constitution. All relevant issues are brought up on appeal- but there is a state/federal overlap
You cannot limit the time for appeals to be heard, only the limit on pleadings, filing motions, etc. And again you would be prioritizing death penalty cases violating the Constitution.
So- no- you cannot start with those.
If there's no separate appeals, they why are there multiple appeals filed at different times by numerous D.P. inmates? Your research is flawed. How is putting D.P. appeals on a "fast track" in violation of the Constitution? Last time I checked, "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial". Does that now NOT apply to D.P. convicts?
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EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 13, 2014 22:00:28 GMT -5
With modern forensics, a "false guilty" is much more rare than it used to be. I don't advocate "expedited carryout of sentencing" to convicts convicted 20 years ago... but consider it a good idea from this time frame forward. Also, DA's should only even consider seeking D.P. when it's a "slam-dunk" case (video of the person committing the act, for example). I agree with you- the old days of beating a confession out of people has been replaced by video interrogations, science has freed enough people to call into question tactics, and I agree that a slam-dunk case against some monster should end with the death of that monster.
We are not there yet.
You have to understand my point-I am not opposed to the death penalty- just the way we use it here.
Tell you something else that might shock you- I will support police shooting unarmed people once their options are limited- but I am never going to take their word for it alone- they need cameras.
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EVT1
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 30, 2010 16:22:42 GMT -5
Posts: 8,596
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 13, 2014 22:04:10 GMT -5
They do have the same trial requirements other than a separate sentencing phase that if not done the DP would still be
If there's no separate appeals, they why are there multiple appeals filed at different times by numerous D.P. inmates? Your research is flawed. How is putting D.P. appeals on a "fast track" in violation of the Constitution? Last time I checked, "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial". Does that now NOT apply to D.P. convicts? I don't need research I know the freaking law. Death penalty appeals are very strict in nature- I have no idea what the hell you are talking about other than inmates can file lawsuits as quick as you can supply them with ink and paper- but they will have jack to do with DP case.
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mroped
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 17, 2014 17:36:56 GMT -5
Posts: 3,453
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Post by mroped on Dec 13, 2014 23:05:38 GMT -5
No, no,no, my issue is with deliberately delaying the process. I am all for the burden of proof, you cannot just sentence someone to death based on manufactured evidence or false testimony. But once it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt I don't see why it takes so long? A normal appeal takes what 45 days? Once all appeals have been processed why does it take 20-30-40 years to execution? That is my issue! I know many sentences have been overturned when new evidence surfaced but that is generaly in cases that were processed before DNA analysis. And i see some people wonder why is Manson still alive? Maybe because he never physically killed anybody?! He just caused discord and planted ideas.
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