Atheists Celebrating Christmas

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

From purely an optics perspective, athiests should avoid celebrating on christmas to avoid looking like hypocrites

Then you better not have a Christmas tree, a yule log or let your kids have anything to do with Santa.

Because none of those things are Christian and have exactly squat to do with Jesus.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 12:47:09 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Dec 10, 2014 12:13:10 GMT -5 Angel! said:

But, that is not actually what I am celebrating.  Just like hiding jellybeans around the house is in no way a celebration of jesus for me either. Honestly I've never seen the connection between easter & a bunny that gives out candy.  Are the easter traditions also stolen pagan traditions?

From purely an optics perspective, athiests should avoid celebrating on christmas to avoid looking like hypocrites.  You can't be arguing to remove "God" from everything and then choosing Christmas Day to celebrate the "Holidays".  

I've only seen atheist groups argue to remove religion from government supported property as a constitutional issue, not anywhere else. I celebrate Christmas because most of my family is Christian and that is the day everyone has off and gets together, and really the only religion practiced by us that day is watching National Lampoons Christmas Vacation.

[Tennesseer]

Dec 10, 2014 13:04:43 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I've kind of skimmed thru the responses... and I didn't see anywhere that people were celebrating Christmas by attending Church or some other required religious happening.

I would think that the people who celebrate Christmas as a Religious Holiday - do all the religious stuff that goes along with it... When I was a kid (grew up Catholic and went to a Catholic grade school) there were the four weeks of Advent leading up to Christmas and you were suppose to go to Church on all those Sundays leading up to Christmas and there were special readings? themes? things you did each week in preparation for Christmas. (I totally could have this wrong... I pretty much attended Mass - even on Saturdays for the first 18 years of my life - and I pretty much 'slept' thru it all - one Mass was pretty much just like any other to me). Then there was the big whoop to do about going to Confession so you could be all sin free on Christmas day.

When I was in gradeschool each kid was required to create a "spiritual bouquet" for the Baby Jesus. We had 10 days of 'acts' or prayers that we were suppose to complete by Christmas.    I did this for the 8 years of grade school  and then did something similiar for the 4 years of High School because I was still involved with the "teen club" sponsered by the Church which met every week year round.   I didn't really have a choice about NOT attending even though I was pretty gosh darn sure I didn't have any morals and was one of those 'evil atheists' by the time I got to 8th grade.   (please note I had never heard the word atheist - I had just read about them in books).  

My family also got all dressed up and attended Mass on Christmas morning as a family.

And then AFTER Christmas there was more Church going and doing leading up to the Epiphany (Twelfth Night).

I'm an athiest and I celebrate Christmas by putting up some secular decorations and then having a traditional 'christmas' dinner with my family. I also attend a bunch of "Christmas" parties that usually involve food and drink and possibly some gift giving. There is no Church going or 'preparing' my soul to meet the Baby Jesus involved.

When the religious start complaining about the non-religious celebrating Christmas I sometiems get confused - because I start thinking their Churches and religious ceremonies are being over run by people partying and drinking... Or maybe they are just complaining about the hordes of "Holy for a Day" people who show for Church and then fade back into the woodwork.

Oy! Another bloody hypocrite. This thread is full of us.

[movingforward]

Well, it doesn't appear that any of us are trying to kill Christmas... shhhh... no one tell that to the right wingers. 
It is a secret

HAPPY HOLIDAYS everyone! 

[HoneyBBQ]

Dec 9, 2014 18:55:43 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

Things have been a bit slow recently, so I figured I'd stir the pot a little.

I always thought it was a little strange to see many people who identify themselves as atheists or agnostic still celebrating Christmas, or at least do the things with the gift giving, Christmas trees, Christmas parties, stockings, ect.  You would think if you were "truly" atheist or agnostic, you would not celebrate Christmas in any way, shape or form, even preferring to work that day.

Don't get me wrong though, it's a free country, people can do what they want.  It just seems a bit disingenuous to me for an atheist or agnostic to celebrate Christmas.  How do they reconcile their celebratory activities with their religious beliefs (or lack there of in this case)?

This is up to 4 pages and I haven't read anything but I'll answer and then go catch up before I'm swayed by other posts.

I'm an athiest, born and raised.

I "celebrate" Christmas. Just like Halloween, though I'm not a pagan, and 4th of  July, though I'm not a veteran.

To me, Christmas is about celebrating your family with token rituals and places. It's about kids being excited for new toys. And being appreciative for what you have. It doesn't have anything to do with God, Jesus, or 3 wise men. We sing carols because it's fun to sing songs together, though we mostly stick to Frosty the Snowman and stuff like that. It's about seeing people you don't get see very often and taking the time out of your day to meet or talk to people you don't usually (e.g. holiday cards). It's remember people who are here, and who are gone. It's appreciating people by baking them something, buying them something, or just saying Happy Holidays. It's fun to put up a Christmas tree and ornaments and remember where we were when we bought one, or explain to DD about "baby's first Xmas" ornament.  Xmas trees don't really have anything to do with Xmas, either.  

It's not about religion to me, it's about your loved ones.

[mmhmm]

Considering the direction this thread has taken, it will be moved to the Religious Discussion sub-board.

mmhmm, Administrator

[HoneyBBQ]

Dec 9, 2014 19:31:36 GMT -5 Phoenix84 said:

But what do you tell your kids when they inevitably ask "why do we celebrate Christmas?" Surely you don't say you're kind of celebrating a Christian holiday, but we're not Christians.

We're celebrating the other imaginary guy; Santa.

[HoneyBBQ]

Dec 10, 2014 9:47:52 GMT -5 Ryan said:

* Quoted text has been removed as post quoted has been removed. - mmhmm, Administrator

LOL.

Mhmmm. Carry on, nothing to see here.


 

[HoneyBBQ]

Dec 10, 2014 12:47:09 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Dec 10, 2014 12:13:10 GMT -5 Angel! said:

But, that is not actually what I am celebrating.  Just like hiding jellybeans around the house is in no way a celebration of jesus for me either. Honestly I've never seen the connection between easter & a bunny that gives out candy.  Are the easter traditions also stolen pagan traditions?

From purely an optics perspective, athiests should avoid celebrating on christmas to avoid looking like hypocrites.  You can't be arguing to remove "God" from everything and then choosing Christmas Day to celebrate the "Holidays".  

Optics? Like refraction and reflection? Now we're talking physics? Sweet!

*listens*

[mmhmm]

Dec 10, 2014 13:56:02 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Dec 10, 2014 9:47:52 GMT -5 Ryan said:

* Quoted text has been removed as post quoted has been removed. - mmhmm, Administrator

LOL.

Mhmmm. Carry on, nothing to see here.


 

As an FYI, everyone should read the special rules which apply to this particular forum. There will be no name-calling and no denigration of the beliefs of others.

mmhmm, Administrator

[HoneyBBQ]

Dec 10, 2014 13:52:27 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Considering the direction this thread has taken, it will be moved to the Religious Discussion sub-board.

mmhmm, Administrator

Dammit, never to be seen by me again.

[HoneyBBQ]

Dec 10, 2014 13:58:01 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Dec 10, 2014 13:56:02 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

LOL.

Mhmmm. Carry on, nothing to see here.


 

As an FYI, everyone should read the special rules which apply to this particular forum. There will be no name-calling and no denigration of the beliefs of others.

mmhmm, Administrator

Calling all athiests hypocrites isn't?  It's cool. I won't respond to him anymore. I just think it's funny.

[mmhmm]

Dec 10, 2014 14:00:20 GMT -5 HoneyBBQ said:

Dec 10, 2014 13:58:01 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

As an FYI, everyone should read the special rules which apply to this particular forum. There will be no name-calling and no denigration of the beliefs of others.

mmhmm, Administrator

Calling all athiests hypocrites isn't?  It's cool. I won't respond to him anymore. I just think it's funny.

Yes, it certainly is. That's one of several reasons the thread has been moved.

mmhmm, Administrator

[Tiny]

Dec 10, 2014 13:28:47 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Dec 10, 2014 13:04:43 GMT -5 Tiny said:

 I'm an athiest and I celebrate Christmas by putting up some secular decorations and then having a traditional 'christmas' dinner with my family. I also attend a bunch of "Christmas" parties that usually involve food and drink and possibly some gift giving. There is no Church going or 'preparing' my soul to meet the Baby Jesus involved.  

Oy! Another bloody hypocrite. This thread is full of us.

I guess I'm a hypocrite when it comes to Football too.... I don't pay attention to the games or the teams  - yet every year I attend a Super Bowl party and wear some sort of Football jersey thing (I call it Camoflauge) that I was gifted years ago, so I'd have something football related to wear to said party.   Some years, if I can figure out the 'colors' of the teams playing I'll try to wear one or two of those colors in regular clothing  instead of the jersey thing.   
   

[Tiny]

Dec 10, 2014 12:47:09 GMT -5 Ryan said:

Dec 10, 2014 12:13:10 GMT -5 Angel! said:

But, that is not actually what I am celebrating.  Just like hiding jellybeans around the house is in no way a celebration of jesus for me either. Honestly I've never seen the connection between easter & a bunny that gives out candy.  Are the easter traditions also stolen pagan traditions?

From purely an optics perspective, athiests should avoid celebrating on christmas to avoid looking like hypocrites.  You can't be arguing to remove "God" from everything and then choosing Christmas Day to celebrate the "Holidays".  

LOL!  got a whole lot of troll worthy stuff packed into those two sentences...     <-- that's Admiration I'm feeling not a rebuff or disdain.

I'm only addressing this point:  As has been pointed out, Athiest groups request that "God" stuff gets removed from political OR public (paid for by the taxpayers) areas - like town halls, public schools, public libraries, etc.   Our government is suppose to be "religion free' - We don't have a Governement specified official National Religion.    No one is saying you can't put  your religious stuff on your own property or on private property.  No one is saying Churches can't have religious icons or decorations out side.    Or that a religiously supported library (for example) can't display it's religious stuff outside.  


ADDED:  I dont' mind being called out as an 'atheist hypocrite' over something like my  secular observance of  Christmas.     

[Tiny]

So, How many of the people who celebrate Christmas do so in a religious way by attending religious services?

How many of the people who celebrate Christmas in a religious way attend religious services on more than just 'Holy Days' - so all those weeks in between the big religious festivities?

If there's no religious component to one's celebration of Christmas - is it still "celebrating Christmas" in a religious sense?


I have no religious 'decorations' in my house - no crucifixes on the walls, no Last Supper painting in the Dining room.  No Creche under my Christmas tree (when I put it up) and no Angel on top of my tree.  There is a 70 year old aluminum star with a hole for a christmas light bulb in it, though,  But it's pretty much just a star ( I didn't realize that it was the "Star" until I was in my teens - everyone else's trees had Angels or pretty glass ball toppers - no stars.  I figured it was just a star becasue we couldn't afford an Angel or a fancy glass topper).    I can't think of one 'religiously' themed ornament that I own, either.   hmmmm...   I'm I still somehow being religious by celebrating 'Christmas'  with a dinner surrounded by family?

[billisonboard]

Dec 10, 2014 14:23:31 GMT -5 Tiny said:

So, How many of the people who celebrate Christmas do so in a religious way by attending religious services?
Last year in the US, 2,745,641 people
How many of the people who celebrate Christmas in a religious way attend religious services on more than just 'Holy Days' - so all those weeks in between the big religious festivities?
1,956,523
If there's no religious component to one's celebration of Christmas - is it still Christmas in a religious sense?

No

[Deleted]

Any one wanting to join in a celebration of love and peace and joy and fellowship and charity and family and good will to men should do it, religion or no religion. The more the merrier.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Dec 10, 2014 14:23:31 GMT -5 Tiny said:

So, How many of the people who celebrate Christmas do so in a religious way by attending religious services?

How many of the people who celebrate Christmas in a religious way attend religious services on more than just 'Holy Days' - so all those weeks in between the big religious festivities?

If there's no religious component to one's celebration of Christmas - is it still "celebrating Christmas" in a religious sense?


I have no religious 'decorations' in my house - no crucifixes on the walls, no Last Supper painting in the Dining room.  No Creche under my Christmas tree (when I put it up) and no Angel on top of my tree.  There is a 70 year old aluminum star with a hole for a christmas light bulb in it, though,  But it's pretty much just a star ( I didn't realize that it was the "Star" until I was in my teens - everyone else's trees had Angels or pretty glass ball toppers - no stars.  I figured it was just a star becasue we couldn't afford an Angel or a fancy glass topper).    I can't think of one 'religiously' themed ornament that I own, either.   hmmmm...   I'm I still somehow being religious by celebrating 'Christmas'  with a dinner surrounded by family?

I do. I attend services both on Christmas eve and on Christmas morning.   Obviously, I know lots of people who do because they are there with me.  As to their motivation, I can't say!  Maybe their mom's make them go.  Christmas should be about what it means to you.  I really don't think it matters what anyone else thinks.

Yes.  I attend church on other occasions, as well - mostly every Sunday.  I also know lots of people who don't.  Of course, I know people who only attend on special days.  To each his own.

[mmhmm]

I'm going to restate my suggestion that everyone posting in this thread read the forum-specific rules that apply ( FOUND HERE . If you cannot post civilly, please don't post. Do not deride the beliefs of another, even in jest. Do not tell others how they should believe or that their beliefs are wrong, or silly, or hypocritical, or <insert insult here>.

mmhmm, Administrator

[Tiny]

Dec 10, 2014 14:55:04 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Dec 10, 2014 14:23:31 GMT -5 Tiny said:

So, How many of the people who celebrate Christmas do so in a religious way by attending religious services?

How many of the people who celebrate Christmas in a religious way attend religious services on more than just 'Holy Days' - so all those weeks in between the big religious festivities?

If there's no religious component to one's celebration of Christmas - is it still "celebrating Christmas" in a religious sense?


I have no religious 'decorations' in my house - no crucifixes on the walls, no Last Supper painting in the Dining room.  No Creche under my Christmas tree (when I put it up) and no Angel on top of my tree.  There is a 70 year old aluminum star with a hole for a christmas light bulb in it, though,  But it's pretty much just a star ( I didn't realize that it was the "Star" until I was in my teens - everyone else's trees had Angels or pretty glass ball toppers - no stars.  I figured it was just a star becasue we couldn't afford an Angel or a fancy glass topper).    I can't think of one 'religiously' themed ornament that I own, either.   hmmmm...   I'm I still somehow being religious by celebrating 'Christmas'  with a dinner surrounded by family?

I do. I attend services both on Christmas eve and on Christmas morning.   Obviously, I know lots of people who do because they are there with me.  As to their motivation, I can't say!  Maybe their mom's make them go.  Christmas should be about what it means to you.  I really don't think it matters what anyone else thinks.

Yes.  I attend church on other occasions, as well - mostly every Sunday.  I also know lots of people who don't.  Of course, I know people who only attend on special days.  To each his own.

Isn't it the numinous/sacred parts of the Holiday  that are most important for the religious?   I dont' think a tree, and gifts, and a dinner (without specially blessed food) are considered numinous/sacred.  Although those things  can be made into the sacred or holy by the way a family treats their traditions - but for things like a tree, gifts and dinner -- I'd think that that woudl be more specific to a family versus a religious tenent. 

Kinda the way the Bowl of Mashed Rutabega is "sacred" and must be present at Thanksgiving Dinner - even though no one eats it - at my 'traditional' family Thanksgiving.   

[cael]

I do go to the Christmas eve service at my church - not so much for what the minister has to say, but for the atmosphere, and decorations, and candles we light for Silent Night, and music, and to see the nice folks I've grown up with.

I will add (and I don't quite know how to word this, so I may not be saying what I'm trying to say) that our minister does a great job of bringing religion/different religions' ideas and themes into his sermons, but they never lean heavily on god or the bible - the point is usually some relevant societal or moral thing or how we frame things and view things and what we can do to be good and help others and live a spiritual life, no matter what that means individually for anyone. He's also my age, wears Chucks to church once in a while, has long hair and goes to the gaming convention in Boston because he's into Magic and other tabletop games, so he's ok by us.

[Ryan]

Dec 10, 2014 15:34:47 GMT -5 cael said:

I do go to the Christmas eve service at my church - not so much for what the minister has to say, but for the atmosphere, and decorations, and candles we light for Silent Night, and music, and to see the nice folks I've grown up with.

I will add (and I don't quite know how to word this, so I may not be saying what I'm trying to say) that our minister does a great job of bringing religion/different religions' ideas and themes into his sermons, but they never lean heavily on god or the bible - the point is usually some relevant societal or moral thing or how we frame things and view things and what we can do to be good and help others and live a spiritual life, no matter what that means individually for anyone. He's also my age, wears Chucks to church once in a while, has long hair and goes to the gaming convention in Boston because he's into Magic and other tabletop games, so he's ok by us.

I don't know if I would consider it good that a pastor at a church doesn't lean heavily on God or the Bible during a sermon.  I mean, if you're a Christian and you can't even talk about that in your own church, then what are you even doing?  Go out and be a motivational speaker somewhere.  

I don't know, the comment just struck me as funny.  If you just want a feel-good message, then just stay home and watch the hallmark channel.  

[swamp]

I'm a recovering catholic. I love midnight mass. The songs, the decoration, the ritual, the candles. You don't have to believe to see the beauty and feel comfort in a ritual. 

And I think it's stupid we have to talk about religion in a tucked away little corner. 

[swamp]

Dec 10, 2014 8:27:33 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Maybe from now on we will skip Christmas and just celebrate Festivus.  

You just wait for the airing of the grievances!!!  

[Green Eyed Lady]

Dec 10, 2014 15:23:07 GMT -5 Tiny said:

Dec 10, 2014 14:55:04 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

I do. I attend services both on Christmas eve and on Christmas morning.   Obviously, I know lots of people who do because they are there with me.  As to their motivation, I can't say!  Maybe their mom's make them go.  Christmas should be about what it means to you.  I really don't think it matters what anyone else thinks.

Yes.  I attend church on other occasions, as well - mostly every Sunday.  I also know lots of people who don't.  Of course, I know people who only attend on special days.  To each his own.

Isn't it the numinous/sacred parts of the Holiday  that are most important for the religious?   I dont' think a tree, and gifts, and a dinner (without specially blessed food) are considered numinous/sacred.  Although those things  can be made into the sacred or holy by the way a family treats their traditions - but for things like a tree, gifts and dinner -- I'd think that that woudl be more specific to a family versus a religious tenent. 

Kinda the way the Bowl of Mashed Rutabega is "sacred" and must be present at Thanksgiving Dinner - even though no one eats it - at my 'traditional' family Thanksgiving.   

I can only speak for myself, Tiny, but my most wonderful, magical childhood memories of Christmas had nothing to do with the religious significance of the holiday.  My dad loved Christmas so much.  My memories are of him coming to get us on Christmas morning (we couldnt get out of bed until he came for us - mostly because he spent all night putting together toys and he didn't want us to see).  They were of the family and of the love.  Of the smells and the sights.  I do recall going to candlelight services the first time and I was in awe of the beauty.  But mostly, the magical memories are of family.  I unashamedly admit that.

I give thanks for all my blessing all year long.  I'm in awe of His creations all year long.  I do my best to live His word all year long.  And yes.  I attend services on Christmas.  But mostly, it's about enjoying what I've been blessed with that I celebrate on Christmas Day. 

[mmhmm]

Dec 10, 2014 17:50:41 GMT -5 swamp said:

I'm a recovering catholic. I love midnight mass. The songs, the decoration, the ritual, the candles. You don't have to believe to see the beauty and feel comfort in a ritual. 

And I think it's stupid we have to talk about religion in a tucked away little corner. 

I couldn't agree more. However, the collective "you" haven't been able to discuss this topic without insulting, or making fun of one another's beliefs. The collective "you" seems unable to discuss certain subjects without doing that. Most of those subjects are connected, in one way or another, to religious beliefs. That's why this forum is here and why it has special rules.

[Deleted]

New Topics... No 'little corners' .... Although you might occasionally end up on a PM thread by mistake

[weltschmerz]

Dec 10, 2014 15:34:47 GMT -5 cael said:

I do go to the Christmas eve service at my church - not so much for what the minister has to say, but for the atmosphere, and decorations, and candles we light for Silent Night, and music, and to see the nice folks I've grown up with.

I will add (and I don't quite know how to word this, so I may not be saying what I'm trying to say) that our minister does a great job of bringing religion/different religions' ideas and themes into his sermons, but they never lean heavily on god or the bible - the point is usually some relevant societal or moral thing or how we frame things and view things and what we can do to be good and help others and live a spiritual life, no matter what that means individually for anyone. He's also my age, wears Chucks to church once in a while, has long hair and goes to the gaming convention in Boston because he's into Magic and other tabletop games, so he's ok by us.

I'd go to Easter midnight mass to catch up with old friends and have a nice chat with Aleksandr  Solzhenitsyn. He loved to talk about his garden; it was his pride and joy.

Otherwise, I don't go at all, except if it's for a wedding or funeral.

[uncle23]

.......


Atheist celebrating Christmas for whatever personal reasons is nice and they are always welcome at my Christmas eve party.