Parents -- could you do this?

[midjd]

fox59.com/2014/11/26/dad-turns-teen-son-in-after-finding-nude-photos-of-neighborhood-women-on-memory-card/

I can't c/p the article from my phone, but essentially the father was doing laundry and found an SD card in his 15yo son's pocket with images of nude women from their neighborhood. He contacted the police.

What would you do?

I'm pretty torn on it. On one hand, I would be furious if DD was breaking the law. On the other hand, particularly in situations like this where there may be a risk of ending up on the sex offender registry, I might be reluctant to bring in law enforcement before I tried to handle it myself...

[Deleted]

That's a tough one. I'd be inclined to keep it quiet and get him therapy (a 15-year old looking at photos of nude women is normal, peeping-Tom behavior to get them is not) but wouldn't the therapist have to report him?

[Opti]

Since he's 15, would he even be put on a registry given its peeping behavior

versus something more awful? Maybe Dad did it in hopes he would be scared

into good behavior now before he turned 18.

[Shooby]

If my son was committing criminal acts, then mostly yes, I would call the Police. I would rather my son be in jail and learn the consequences of criminal behavior earlier in life rather than later depending on the circumstances. If my child harmed anyone in any way or was having addiction issues and driving, etc I would contact the Police.
However, this is a bit more grey to me. Looking through windows and snapping photos of women is creepy and disturbing but I am not sure any real harm has ensued from that per se. I would certainly bring it to his attention and seek the services of a counselor immediately. I mean teen boys are known for doing a boatload of stupid. And, yes the sex offender registry is something that will haunt him for the rest of his life. So, this is a tough one.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I had a response almost completed and Firefox ate it. 

Short version: I'd talk to kid, I'd talk to DH and I'd wander over the cop side of my building and have a chat with the Duty Sargent to get his/her/their take on it.  It the agreement is that it's mostly going to be a slap on the wrist and a 1st hand look at why staying away from the attention of the law is a good thing; I'd probably report it. 

[Deleted]

Well, after just a quick search seeing what some 9-17 yr olds have been put on the registry for, I'm going to have to say most likely not. Too bad. I can see wanting to scare a 15 yr old strait, and the evidence shows adolescents are more likely to respond to intervention and not reoffend or escalat, so it's too bad the system would discourage reporting.

In one instance though, well, we've all met a kid who had the potential to be a violent offender I think. Or saw something in someone that just made you more wary. Those people have parents. If I thought there was a great chance a kid, even my kid, would end up in that category, if I felt I could do nothing else to help, maybe then I'd get them in the system as soon as possible.

[Phoenix84]

It would mostly come down to whether he'd go on the sex offender register or not. I'm not sure of someone under 18 can go on it or not, or for how long. If that wasn't an issue, I would seriously consider it. As others said, it's better to learn the consequences sooner rather than later, but not in such a way that will cause permanent damage.

[Deleted]

Nov 26, 2014 9:32:08 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

I had a response almost completed and Firefox ate it. 

Short version: I'd talk to kid, I'd talk to DH and I'd wander over the cop side of my building and have a chat with the Duty Sargent to get his/her/their take on it.  It the agreement is that it's mostly going to be a slap on the wrist and a 1st hand look at why staying away from the attention of the law is a good thing; I'd probably report it. 

The problem is you might not even have a choice if you mention it to law enforcement. Heck, my grandfather had a puppy once and I didn't realize till son told me the next day that it had nipped him in the ear, since I hadn't cleaned it because I didn't know I called the doc just to ask if there was anything I should watch for... And dealt with dog authorities and quarantines for the next month... Mandatory reporting is not a bad thing, and mostly helps... But it does have its issues.

[Ryan]

I wouldn't report him, but I'd let him know that I reserve the right to if I suspect him doing it again.  If your parents reported you for doing everything illegal, you'd be screwed!  Imagine if my parents would've contacted the cops everytime I came home smelling like booze when I was underage.

[mmhmm]

This really is a difficult scenario for me. For one thing, I don't have enough information. Much would depend on the kid's behavior history. Has he been an ongoing problem? The article doesn't say. I'd think that would contribute to any decision I might make.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Nov 26, 2014 9:41:07 GMT -5 oped said:

Nov 26, 2014 9:32:08 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

I had a response almost completed and Firefox ate it. 

Short version: I'd talk to kid, I'd talk to DH and I'd wander over the cop side of my building and have a chat with the Duty Sargent to get his/her/their take on it.  It the agreement is that it's mostly going to be a slap on the wrist and a 1st hand look at why staying away from the attention of the law is a good thing; I'd probably report it. 

The problem is you might not even have a choice if you mention it to law enforcement. Heck, my grandfather had a puppy once and I didn't realize till son told me the next day that it had nipped him in the ear, since I hadn't cleaned it because I didn't know I called the doc just to ask if there was anything I should watch for... And dealt with dog authorities and quarantines for the next month... Mandatory reporting is not a bad thing, and mostly helps... But it does have its issues.

True enough.  I suspect there are ways around that "this kid in my son's class..." type of ways. 

[Shooby]

I really don't understand the "i wouldn't turn my own family in" thing. If one of my relatives was committing crimes, I would most certainly turn them in.

[Lizard Queen]

It depends on if I thought the kid was being insidious with his intentions, or just curious.  I would hesitate to turn him in because the punishment can be way > the crime.  Could he be put on the sex offender registry for the rest of his life?  I've heard of underage kids that had sex with their underage girlfriend being stuck on the registry.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Nov 26, 2014 9:57:25 GMT -5 Shooby said:

I really don't understand the "i wouldn't turn my own family in" thing. If one of my relatives was committing crimes, I would most certainly turn them in.

I'm not saying I wouldn't turn in family.  I'd be trying to get a handle on likely consequences first.  THEN DH and I would decide together.  Teenagers do stupid things at times. 

Now, if the kid was sharing those images with others, this is a completely different scenario.  Or if he got them from another kid.  Because that's distributing porn of images taken without consent.  Bet your ass I'd be calling the cops in that scenario. 

[Deleted]

15 year olds have been on the registry for kiddie porn because they took and distrupibuted their own nude photos (ie texted them to a friend). 12 and 13 yr olds having sex with each other both registered. 8 and 9 year olds experimenting with kids of other gender have been put on the list. 

There are definite issues with how underage 'offenders' are classified.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I also trying to figure out what I would want to have happen if I was one of the women whose pictures were found.  If it's limited to just the kid, I think I'd be good with assurances that all images were removed; nothing was posted online or shared and I got a sincere apology from the kid.  But I do realize that not all women would feel that way and some may want the police involved. 

I do think the kid needs to apologize to the women which means admitting it to them.  What they do with that info is another stage in this. 

[mmhmm]

Nov 26, 2014 10:06:39 GMT -5 @tbird said:

Nov 26, 2014 9:42:50 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

This really is a difficult scenario for me. For one thing, I don't have enough information. Much would depend on the kid's behavior history. Has he been an ongoing problem? The article doesn't say. I'd think that would contribute to any decision I might make.

yep - is he a budding true sex offender? or what is going on?

but then - again - therapy would seem to be a better option - not only for the kid - but for society.

If it turns out there is a real issue with risk involved, the therapist is likely the one best able to make that determination. they are required to report any known dangers.

Agreed. I was thinking more in terms of a kid who's already mucked stuff up enough to have been in therapy. Most responsible parents will get therapy for a troubled child who's acting out. If that's already been done, or ongoing, and something like this happens, that would put me in a position to consider whether legal intervention might be the right way to go. Just a really difficult decision, I'd think.

[andi9899]

I have a lot of family in law enforcement. I think I would talk to them to find out the consequences first and then decide. If someone didn't have that, I'd probably contact a lawyer and ask. You don't want to potentially cause legal issues for your child, but at the same time, that's not ok.

[milee]

My kids are apparently more scared of me than they are of the police, anyways.    I have direct evidence of this from the one time my older son got in trouble for punching a bully on the bus - he appealed to the School Resource Officer (who is 6' tall, carries a gun and is IMHO pretty scary tough) to punish him without telling me...

So that being said, I'd first talk to a therapist to get him counseling and figure out how likely he was to re-offend and/or perpetrate other crimes.  I'd also immediately work with DH to ensure that DS no longer had the unsupervised time to be out doing anything we aren't aware of.  He would re-earn that free time as he demonstrated he was no longer a risk to others.  All this would happen regardless of whether I contacted the police or not.

I'd also talk to an attorney about the likely consequences and weigh those consequences with the attorney before deciding if I would turn him over to law enforcement. 

My response would probably be different if the son had harmed a person or if I knew that the victims were aware of the peeping, so had been emotionally harmed.  I'm assuming that the peeping victims are unaware that they were violated, so although they were victimized they are unaware of it as of now.

[billisonboard]

... found a camera memory card ...

It seems that it is significant that it was just a card. Not pictures on a phone. Not the card in a camera. Just the card. Not sure what it means, but seems significant. Did it to anyone else? Any thoughts about it?

[midjd]

Seems to imply that he was either sharing with or receiving the pictures from others...

I'd definitely want to confront my child with the information before going to the police or an attorney. The answers (along with past behavior) would probably determine where I'd go from there.

[Firebird]

I am not sure but there's a good chance I would, yes.  It would break my heart but I don't think I could sweep a nonconsensual sex crime under the rug just because my own kid committed it.  It's not who I am.  If I've raised a child who thinks that it's okay to take/share nude photos of neighborhood women, that means I've failed both him and myself on such a massive scale that I would need to reevaluate everything. 

15 is (IMO) old enough to take responsibility for a criminal act.  If this kid was photographing women nude without their permission, he is a criminal.  I know it's not that straightforward - just thinking about this happening in my own family is seriously depressing - but at the end of the day, I have to remember that sex offenders tend to escalate.  Today it's nude photos, tomorrow it could be rape.  (And it's not like he has to escalate to rape in order for there to be a victim - the women he photographed are already victims.) 

I would try to keep him off the sex offender registry and get him treatment.  I'd do everything I could to help him.  I would likely have our entire family in therapy trying to get a handle on what went wrong and how.  But I do not believe I would "save" him from facing criminal prosecution. 

[Firebird]

Looking through windows and snapping photos of women is creepy and disturbing but I am not sure any real harm has ensued from that per se.

Are you serious?  No real harm has ensued?  He's filming women naked without their permission.  You'd be okay with him doing that to you?  Or your daughter? 

[milee]

Nov 26, 2014 11:06:17 GMT -5 midjd said:

Seems to imply that he was either sharing with or receiving the pictures from others...

I'm not sure I'd assume that. My guess was that he used a camera to take the pictures and then wiped the pictures off the camera, just storing them on an SD card which he put in his pocket so he could plug it in his computer later.

But I'm guessing that because I'm not a techie and that's how I'd do it, so maybe there's a better way to do it that most 15 year olds would know so that's why you think the card implies he's sharing or receiving?

[Firebird]

15 year olds have been on the registry for kiddie porn because they took and distrupibuted their own nude photos (ie texted them to a friend). 12 and 13 yr olds having sex with each other nothing registered. 8 and 9 year olds experimenting with kids of other gender have been put on the list.

I agree that some of the things young kids end up on the registry for are suspect and should be subject to reevaluation (perhaps when they turn 18), but let's not pretend that what this kid did is in any way a gray area the way an 18 year old having consensual sex with a 17 year old girlfriend, or two 8 year olds playing doctor might be. 

Taking photos of someone without their consent, whether you share them or not, is a completely different animal from a consensual sex crime such as texting a nude photo of yourself to a friend when you're underage. 

[Deleted]

Nov 26, 2014 11:15:42 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Looking through windows and snapping photos of women is creepy and disturbing but I am not sure any real harm has ensued from that per se.

Are you serious?  No real harm has ensued?  He's filming women naked without their permission.  You'd be okay with him doing that to you?  Or your daughter? 

I am not OK with him doing it. I think there need to be consequences. I don't think this automatically classifies the kid as a Sexual predator who needs to be remanded to a watch list for life...

[mmhmm]

Nov 26, 2014 10:54:31 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

... found a camera memory card ...

It seems that it is significant that it was just a card. Not pictures on a phone. Not the card in a camera. Just the card. Not sure what it means, but seems significant. Did it to anyone else? Any thoughts about it?

It passed through my mind; however, the boy admitted to his father having taken the pictures. That, for me, made the point moot.

[Firebird]

I am not OK with him doing it. I think there need to be consequences. I don't think this automatically classifies the kid as a Sexual predator who needs to be remanded to a watch list for life...

That's a completely different argument than saying that "no harm ensued" from what he did.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Nov 26, 2014 11:15:42 GMT -5 Firebird said:

Looking through windows and snapping photos of women is creepy and disturbing but I am not sure any real harm has ensued from that per se.

Are you serious?  No real harm has ensued?  He's filming women naked without their permission.  You'd be okay with him doing that to you?  Or your daughter? 

People have different levels/views of nudity, privacy in one's home and curtains.  What's offensive to you is not necessarily the same thing as what's offensive to me.  Or Mmhmm (sorry, I needed a name.)  And that's ok.  But if 2 of the women don't feel violated and the 3rd one does, the cops/justice system/whatever needs to operate for the 3rd woman.  Which is why apologies are important because then they know. 

The article said that the Dad apologized to the women, so they know.  Maybe that's the reason he called the cops.  I don't know.  It didn't say if the kid had apologized or not either. 

[greeniis10]

Nov 26, 2014 11:13:19 GMT -5 Firebird said:

I am not sure but there's a good chance I would, yes.  It would break my heart but I don't think I could sweep a nonconsensual sex crime under the rug just because my own kid committed it.  It's not who I am.  If I've raised a child who thinks that it's okay to take/share nude photos of neighborhood women, that means I've failed both him and myself on such a massive scale that I would need to reevaluate everything. 

15 is (IMO) old enough to take responsibility for a criminal act.  If this kid was photographing women nude without their permission, he is a criminal.  I know it's not that straightforward - just thinking about this happening in my own family is seriously depressing - but at the end of the day, I have to remember that sex offenders tend to escalate.  Today it's nude photos, tomorrow it could be rape.  (And it's not like he has to escalate to rape in order for there to be a victim - the women he photographed are already victims.) 

I would try to keep him off the sex offender registry and get him treatment.  I'd do everything I could to help him.  I would likely have our entire family in therapy trying to get a handle on what went wrong and how.  But I do not believe I would "save" him from facing criminal prosecution. 

Not necessarily.  Teenage boys are a whirlwind of out-of-control hormones that over-take any common sense they may have.  I'm NOT saying what this kid did was right, but I don't think it means his parents are terrible or to blame.

I'm trying to figure out why there are so many women getting undressed with open curtains or blinds in this neighborhood?  Really?  I'm thinking about my neighborhood right now and can't think of a single female you'd catch a glimpse of nude through window...