Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 2, 2014 17:30:54 GMT -5
48% of adults approved of the decision not to indict the police officer who shot and killed an unarmed black teenagerAmericans are evenly split on a recent grand jury decision not to indict the Ferguson, Mo. police officer who shot and killed unarmed black teenager Michael Brown, but answers varied along racial and partisan lines, according to a new poll. The poll, conducted by the Washington Post, shows that 48% of American adults approved of a Missouri grand jury’s decision not to indict Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson while 45% said they disapproved of it. These figures varied dramatically between racial groups and party affiliation. Fewer than 10% of African Americans said they approved of the decision, while nearly 60% of white Americans said the same. More than three-quarters of Republicans agreed that Wilson shouldn’t have been charged, while 27% of Democrats agreed. Still, the poll suggests that there is less of a divide on police handling of the protests that erupted after the shooting and the subsequent grand jury decision: just under 40% of all Americans approved of law enforcement’s handling of the situation. Poll: Americans Evenly Divided on Ferguson Grand Jury Decision
Link to interative poll results below. Washington Post - ABC News Poll Polls are meaningless. What matters is what is true. The fringe agitator's Ferguson narrative fell apart- some people know this, some don't. If they don't then whether they approve or disapprove of the grand jury decision is irrelevant. We don't put people on trial by a public poll. Your polls and analysis are meaningless if I recall the 2012 election. But the above is not about politics. Why not go into the African-American neighborhoods (without your guns of course) where you live and ask them their opinion of the Ferguson case, the shooting of unarmed young black men and why their lives matter. Then get back to us.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 2, 2014 17:41:39 GMT -5
If anyone gave a shit about black lives, and in particular the lives of young black males- we would address the economic woes of blacks, the catastrophic failure of government run education, the worst cases of which are concentrated in poor, mostly minority communities, and the absolute pandemic of black on black crime. A young black man is 794% more likely to be shot by another young black male than to be shot by the police.
The problems for the black community are complex, but not unsolvable. We need to liberate the poor minority communities from the government education monopoly and guarantee school choice; we need to reduce taxes, and regulations which price low skilled victims of failed government schools out of the job market, and chase private sector businesses from urban poor and minority communities. We need to end the war on drugs, and phase out welfare.
We fix failed government run schools, welfare, and the war on drugs- we'll put an end to a government system which churns out Trayvon Martins and Michael Browns as if by design.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 2, 2014 17:56:45 GMT -5
If anyone gave a shit about black lives, and in particular the lives of young black males- we would address the economic woes of blacks, the catastrophic failure of government run education, the worst cases of which are concentrated in poor, mostly minority communities, and the absolute pandemic of black on black crime. A young black man is 794% more likely to be shot by another young black male than to be shot by the police. The problems for the black community are complex, but not unsolvable. We need to liberate the poor minority communities from the government education monopoly and guarantee school choice; we need to reduce taxes, and regulations which price low skilled victims of failed government schools out of the job market, and chase private sector businesses from urban poor and minority communities. We need to end the war on drugs, and phase out welfare. We fix failed government run schools, welfare, and the war on drugs- we'll put an end to a government system which churns out Trayvon Martins and Michael Browns as if by design. Do you have any type of source for your claim "A young black man is 794% more likely to be shot by another young black male than to be shot by the police."?
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 2, 2014 20:03:08 GMT -5
No kidding- just when you thought they were at the end of their rope along comes the business assholes with a new way to exploit the poor. Certainly no shortage of that in the USA- probably once of the few metrics we rank at the top on.
Screwing the poor, screwing the workers, jailing, shooting and executing our citizens- on that we kick ass- USA USA USA!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 2, 2014 20:33:18 GMT -5
This is why Wilson, and for that matter Zimmerman, were well within their rights to use deadly force. If you attack someone who is armed- .................................................................... you are liable to be shot because that person has not only the right, but a duty to make sure your thug ass doesn't end up with their gun. conservativetribune.com/cop-murdered-with-own-gun/i see. so, if you are unarmed then you have the right to be shot if you engage someone is armed because.....they are armed? what a beautiful world y'allz live in.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 2, 2014 20:35:23 GMT -5
If anyone gave a shit about black lives, and in particular the lives of young black males- we would address the economic woes of blacks, . i think it starts by caring, which starts by understanding. but white people don't understand blacks, in my experience. they figure that we are all the same, and that we all have the same values, which is a very superficial way of looking at things.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 2, 2014 22:10:44 GMT -5
If anyone gave a shit about black lives, and in particular the lives of young black males- we would address the economic woes of blacks, . i think it starts by caring, which starts by understanding. but white people don't understand blacks, in my experience. they figure that we are all the same, and that we all have the same values, which is a very superficial way of looking at things. What a lot of people of all colors don't understand is the black chip-on-their-shoulder subculture. I'll be the first to admit that I don't understand people that don't understand that if you commit a violent felony, and subsequently assault the police when they show up, try to disarm the police officer, flee the police officer, then turn and charge the police officer that you're going to be shot and you deserve it. I get that there are real problems with the police. I get that there is such a thing as "driving while black" (or putting your hands in your pockets on a cold winter day while black), but the fact of the matter is that there is an angry, rebellious, entitled, violent subculture of African Americans that if they aren't actual gang members, seem to aspire to build a criminal or at least quasi-criminal empire and/or sympathize and glorify those that have. Fucked up as it is, we still live in the greatest country in human history- let alone currently on planet earth. And the solution to the problems that remain is not "burning this bitch down".
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 2, 2014 22:33:26 GMT -5
This is why Wilson, and for that matter Zimmerman, were well within their rights to use deadly force. If you attack someone who is armed- .................................................................... you are liable to be shot because that person has not only the right, but a duty to make sure your thug ass doesn't end up with their gun. conservativetribune.com/cop-murdered-with-own-gun/i see. so, if you are unarmed then you have the right to be shot if you engage someone is armed because.....they are armed? what a beautiful world y'allz live in. Um, no. The word is not engage, but attack. If you attack someone you always run the risk of grievous bodily harm or death. However, what is crystal clear is that Michael Brown had already attacked and attempted to disarm Wilson. When he charged at him again before he was killed, Wilson had his gun drawn and was shouting stop, stop, stop, stop!!! One might call what Brown did crazy, even suicidal. I'm not going to pass judgment on who "deserves" what, but we can observe that this was a natural consequence that Brown knew or should have known was coming, and that most of us looking at the utter absurdity that is the Ferguson narrative don't have any problem doing the math on. The problem is truth. We live in a country where a significant portion of the population is committed to a political narrative on race relations and when the circumstances don't fit the narrative, the narrative is supported and defended at all costs- and no matter how obvious the truth is, these kinds of people will continue to make fun of themselves. If it weren't for all the racially motivated assaults, murders, and destruction of property going on, they'd be entertaining to watch. As it stands, if they're worried about black stereotypes and living in a militarized or "occupied" community-- congratulations assholes. The way these things play out- the thing you fear comes upon you. They are going to manifest their fantasy world because those agitating for a 'race war' aren't black people- the black 'leaders' are just the useful idiots. Those agitating for 13% of the population to make "whitey" afraid- are setting the black community up for a holocaust. If the day ever comes when white people are genuinely afraid of black people (and FWIW, I think we're a LONG way off from that, and I continue to hope and pray these efforts to divide us fall flat), black people are seriously screwed.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 2, 2014 23:52:47 GMT -5
You are the 13% of whitey afraid- just go ahead and join the oath keepers or whatever the hell else nut show is in your town- I think we lost the rational PBP about a year ago- if there ever was one.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 3, 2014 0:17:53 GMT -5
You are the 13% of whitey afraid- just go ahead and join the oath keepers or whatever the hell else nut show is in your town- I think we lost the rational PBP about a year ago- if there ever was one. The what, now? What's a rational PBP? Never heard of such a thing.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2014 1:46:32 GMT -5
i see. so, if you are unarmed then you have the right to be shot if you engage someone is armed because.....they are armed? what a beautiful world y'allz live in. Um, no. The word is not engage, but attack. If you attack someone you always run the risk of grievous bodily harm or death.. you say that a lot, but i don't agree with that at all. i don't think that people are thinking when they attack others, quite often. it is not a rational choice. it is not planned. it just happens. bar fights, spousal conflicts, parent/teen arguments. stuff gets out of hand. people should not have to die for that. my opinion. i know, not yours. that's fine. i can live with that. so long as we keep our friendship digital.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2014 1:50:52 GMT -5
incidentally, this is the last time i say this- but what we have is Wilson's word on how the conflict went down. nobody actually saw that part of the argument. so, on the one hand, we have a recently resigned officer who stood to lose a great deal if he started that conflict. and on the other hand, we have 290 lbs of dead black dude. insufficient evidence makes perfect sense.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 3, 2014 8:52:38 GMT -5
Yes we don't have full info so its good to be a bit dubious.
I am annoyed by the usual talking points by the conservatives and others who totally believe the police version of events. When I see the 90% stat for blacks killing blacks I figure it shouldn't be a huge surprise given poverty and who lives by who.
Yet the disturbing truth, according to the FBI's most recent homicide statistics, is that the United States is in the wake of an epidemic of white-on-white crime. Back in 2011, the most recent year for which data is available, a staggering 83 percent of white murder victims were killed by fellow Caucasians.
This is not to say that white people are inherently prone to violence. Most whites, obviously, manage to get through life without murdering anyone.
On the other hand, although people often see criminal behavior as a symptom of poverty, the quantity of murder committed by white people specifically in the United States casts some doubt on this. Per capita GDP is considerably higher here than in France — and the white population in America is considerably richer than the national average — and yet we have more white murderers.
To understand the level of cultural pathology at work here, it's important to understand that 36 percent of those killed by whites are women — a far higher share than you see with black murderers.
Clearly, the social disaster of white violence has complicated roots www.vox.com/2014/8/21/6053811/white-on-white-murder
Not sure where this originates. I read it on a few different sites. Better schools aren't going to fix the whites on whites violence nor black on black violence. Just like social mores about attending church, marrying etc. are more influenced by upbringing local social mores than schooling through high school.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 3, 2014 8:53:16 GMT -5
Um, no. The word is not engage, but attack. If you attack someone you always run the risk of grievous bodily harm or death.. you say that a lot, but i don't agree with that at all. i don't think that people are thinking when they attack others, quite often. it is not a rational choice. it is not planned. it just happens. bar fights, spousal conflicts, parent/teen arguments. stuff gets out of hand. people should not have to die for that. my opinion. i know, not yours. that's fine. i can live with that. so long as we keep our friendship digital. isn Well, I can agree with you that it's not a rational choice to charge a police officer after you've already been shot, but that doesn't mean it isn't an attack. Call it ill-conceived, irrational, insane, or suicidal-- it's still an attack.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 3, 2014 8:59:09 GMT -5
There's no proof he charged him. On this I think witness testimony converges. He may have advanced towards him. He may have started falling forward after being shot the first time, but there is only Wilson really saying MB charged at him.
Well, I can agree with you that it's not a rational choice to charge a police officer after you've already been shot, but that doesn't mean it isn't an attack. Call it ill-conceived, irrational, insane, or suicidal-- it's still an attack.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 3, 2014 9:22:03 GMT -5
Yes we don't have full info so its good to be a bit dubious.
I am annoyed by the usual talking points by the conservatives and others who totally believe the police version of events. When I see the 90% stat for blacks killing blacks I figure it shouldn't be a huge surprise given poverty and who lives by who.
Yet the disturbing truth, according to the FBI's most recent homicide statistics, is that the United States is in the wake of an epidemic of white-on-white crime. Back in 2011, the most recent year for which data is available, a staggering 83 percent of white murder victims were killed by fellow Caucasians.
This is not to say that white people are inherently prone to violence. Most whites, obviously, manage to get through life without murdering anyone.
On the other hand, although people often see criminal behavior as a symptom of poverty, the quantity of murder committed by white people specifically in the United States casts some doubt on this. Per capita GDP is considerably higher here than in France — and the white population in America is considerably richer than the national average — and yet we have more white murderers.
To understand the level of cultural pathology at work here, it's important to understand that 36 percent of those killed by whites are women — a far higher share than you see with black murderers.
Clearly, the social disaster of white violence has complicated roots www.vox.com/2014/8/21/6053811/white-on-white-murder
Not sure where this originates. I read it on a few different sites. Better schools aren't going to fix the whites on whites violence nor black on black violence. Just like social mores about attending church, marrying etc. are more influenced by upbringing local social mores than schooling through high school.
I'm hardly a conservative that spouts the "usual talking points" or one that "totally believes the police version of events". That being said, "statistics" are not relevant to the matter at hand. What really concerns me as a conservative is that because of this and the Trayvon Martin cries of "wolf!" when there is no wolf, we have missed out on addressing more important legitimate issues than a couple of wannabe gang bangers that got themselves killed in response to their initiation of violence. It's going to be very difficult to get actual adults to take criminal justice reform, welfare reform, cessation of the war on drugs, and other important matters seriously when you have people from the President on down repeatedly hyping non-events, confusing fact with fiction, and committing to a false narrative of middle aged white men, especially in law enforcement, on the hunt for young black youths to murder them. I'll say it again- these people are making fun of themselves. You don't have to parody them, they're doing that to themselves. Here's what I think- I don't think we should just ignore the extraordinarily high rate of violent crime in the black community, or the black homicide rates which are astronomical. I don't think we should walk away from the fact that progressive public policy has created the catastrophe that is the black community. I think we've seen the pattern, and it is clearly not white people gunning down blacks in the street. Two high profile cases- Trayvon Martin, and Michael Brown- highlight the real trend- idle young black men turning to violent crime and other self destructive behavior. However, by blaming these tragic events on the specific respondents to their decisions, we are avoiding the relevant question of why these two would do such a thing to themselves? As a conservative, I'm sensitive to the fact that no matter how incentivized, baited, entrapped, or otherwise enticed a person is to do evil, it is the individual that is ultimately responsible for their own behavior. Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown are responsible for their own deaths. We can discuss whether deadly force was justified, but what is not up for discussion is that they both set in motion the events that led to deadly force being used against them. That being said, these two young men are examples of systemic problems, which are: 1. The general moral decay of society at large which accepts as art and freedom of expression the most vile and reprehensible representations of a culture of drug, prostitution, rape, and other violent crime in every form of entertainment, and on reality television. Garbage in, garbage out. 2. The breakdown of the traditional family in the black community in particular, especially illegitimacy and fatherlessness. 3. The Welfare state which has illustrated once and for all that idle hands really are the devil's workshop. 4. The failed government run school system. 5. The war on drugs. When you add it altogether, you can see that if someone wanted to come up with a recipe for disaster- they could hardly do any better than this. Replace traditional family with a check from the government, creating a generation of children who grow up without a traditional family, put them into a failing school system with as close to zero hope of learning anything so that they grow up ignorant, illiterate, and with few if any marketable skills. Give them a government check perpetuating dependency on the state, and the no-family model. Tax, regulate, and otherwise price these low skilled workers out of the job market, and chase businesses away from their communities. Create a demand for drugs and alcohol, drive up the price of these items which incentivizes the addicts to commit crimes to obtain them, and which offers the more industrious of the culture who do not have traditional marketable skills a chance to make a fortune in an illicit trade. But we're not going to talk about any of this because it's easier just to say, "Fuck whitey" and distract people.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 3, 2014 9:27:54 GMT -5
"I'm hardly a conservative that spouts the "usual talking points""
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Dec 3, 2014 9:29:48 GMT -5
There's no proof he charged him. On this I think witness testimony converges. He may have advanced towards him. He may have started falling forward after being shot the first time, but there is only Wilson really saying MB charged at him.
Well, I can agree with you that it's not a rational choice to charge a police officer after you've already been shot, but that doesn't mean it isn't an attack. Call it ill-conceived, irrational, insane, or suicidal-- it's still an attack. Over 60 eyewitnesses testified, and the grand jury discerned by the physical evidence which ones were credible. The forensics combined with the credible eyewitnesses- those that were not found to have been mistaken, and that did not deliberately perjur themselves- makes the fact that Michael Brown charged Officer Wilson incontrovertible. Like I keep saying- we're never going to have a chance to discuss the important legitimate issues facing the black community as long as there are people like yourself who insist on questioning the unquestionable facts. We know now after the grand jury evidence was released, if you look at it, that officer Wilson's account is unassailable. We know what happened. This isn't like Trayvon where we can infer what happened- we KNOW what happened.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Dec 3, 2014 13:14:40 GMT -5
There's no proof he charged him. On this I think witness testimony converges. He may have advanced towards him. He may have started falling forward after being shot the first time, but there is only Wilson really saying MB charged at him.
Well, I can agree with you that it's not a rational choice to charge a police officer after you've already been shot, but that doesn't mean it isn't an attack. Call it ill-conceived, irrational, insane, or suicidal-- it's still an attack. Over 60 eyewitnesses testified, and the grand jury discerned by the physical evidence which ones were credible. The forensics combined with the credible eyewitnesses- those that were not found to have been mistaken, and that did not deliberately perjur themselves- makes the fact that Michael Brown charged Officer Wilson incontrovertible. Like I keep saying- we're never going to have a chance to discuss the important legitimate issues facing the black community as long as there are people like yourself who insist on questioning the unquestionable facts. We know now after the grand jury evidence was released, if you look at it, that officer Wilson's account is unassailable. We know what happened. This isn't like Trayvon where we can infer what happened- we KNOW what happened. Paul, the Grand Jury convened to see if there should be an indictment of Wilson or not, actually whether there was enough of a case to try him if the evidence pointed that way.
It was not a rubber stamp of Wilson's testimony any more than the acquittal of Zimmerman or Casey meant they were 100% not guilty. I'm beginning to think these non government run schools are dangerous. They apparently don't teach enough about what trials really mean or don't.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Dec 3, 2014 14:22:41 GMT -5
ROTFLMAO!!!
That's EXACTLY what you are! Thanks for the laugh.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 15:19:06 GMT -5
There's no proof he charged him. On this I think witness testimony converges. He may have advanced towards him. He may have started falling forward after being shot the first time, but there is only Wilson really saying MB charged at him.
Well, I can agree with you that it's not a rational choice to charge a police officer after you've already been shot, but that doesn't mean it isn't an attack. Call it ill-conceived, irrational, insane, or suicidal-- it's still an attack. Over 60 eyewitnesses testified, and the grand jury discerned by the physical evidence which ones were credible. No Of the 20 or so eyewitnesses who appeared before the grand jury, most of those who spoke to the issue said they believed Mr. Brown had his hands up. mobile.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/us/raised-hands-and-the-doubts-of-a-grand-jury-.html?referrer=&_r=0
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 3, 2014 15:37:19 GMT -5
I don't go after anyone holding a gun or a badge.
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PK Bucko
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Post by PK Bucko on Dec 3, 2014 15:40:50 GMT -5
I don't go after anyone holding a gun or a badge. A wise policy.
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PK Bucko
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Post by PK Bucko on Dec 3, 2014 15:41:38 GMT -5
So now that the shit is hitting the fan in New York, I wonder if it will spill back to the mid-west and re-ignite the firestorm...
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Dec 3, 2014 15:44:33 GMT -5
But did he stop moving toward the officer as ordered? He could have thrown down the cop and taken his gun.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Dec 3, 2014 16:07:01 GMT -5
And most were not deemed credible witnesses. They either changed their story, and one witness wasn't even there!
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2014 20:02:09 GMT -5
I don't go after anyone holding a gun or a badge. i will go after anyone who is a threat to me, thanks. if it costs me my life, sobeit.
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EVT1
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Post by EVT1 on Dec 3, 2014 20:54:43 GMT -5
And most were not deemed credible witnesses. They either changed their story, and one witness wasn't even there! A lot of bad witnesses for sure. But only one backs Wilson as far as 'charging'. The rest of the deemed credible witnesses said he was either walking or stumbling back.
The evidence- he did go back as shown by blood spatter. So he was injured and approaching the officer- that is the ONLY indisputable fact. Whether he was a threat or not was not decided and in no way was it a vindication of Wilson's actions, no determination that the force used was reasonable, nada, squat. The ONLY thing that can be gleaned from the grand jury is that at least 4 out of 12 people thought there was not sufficient evidence to charge Wilson with a crime. Didn't help that the prosecutor was playing defense attorney at the same time either- he should have just not charged him at all instead of trying to put the decision on other people.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Dec 3, 2014 21:02:34 GMT -5
It isn't worth my life to be a hero or a nut job. Someone with a gun when I'm unarmed puts me at an insurmountable disadvantage I have too much to live for
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 3, 2014 21:43:31 GMT -5
It isn't worth my life to be a hero or a nut job. Someone with a gun when I'm unarmed puts me at an insurmountable disadvantage I have too much to live for not me. i have had enough life, and i have a good insurance policy.
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