Why do colleges think they are exempt from the law?

[ken a.k.a OMK]

(CNN) -- The University of Virginia is suspending all fraternities and associated parties until January 9 following a Rolling Stone magazine article that described a student's account of being gang raped and her frustration at trying to bring her alleged attackers to accountability.

I went to college and was in a fraternity. Met my wife there. She became fraternity sweet heart and was respected be everyone.

Colleges act like they are a special community with their own security force, but suppress violence against women. I say local law enforcement should enforce the law.

[gooddecisions]

The problem is, universities circumvent the issue before it makes it to law enforcement. People (not just women and not just students) victimized need it drilled in their heads to call the police, not a friend, not a family member, not a crisis hotline, not campus security- THE POLICE.

I was absolutely disgusted by the Rolling Stones article, right on the heals of the Cosby issues too. I can't take the comments anymore either. There are just too many with no compassion or empathy at all.

[gooddecisions]

This is the Rolling Stones article if anyone is curious: www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119?page=2

After the article was published, a group vandalized the frat house and left a list of demands. There was a "slut walk" rally last night as well: wtvr.com/2014/11/21/slut-walk-at-university-of-virginia/

[NastyWoman]

Two words: money talks 

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

It's aboninable this is still happening on campuses. I agree - call POLICE - not the college security, who'll no doubt sweep cases under the rug.

What appalls me more, the link states U of Virginia (and possibly other colleges) called the march a "Slut Walk". That doesn't help any.

Why couldn't they call it a "March Against College (or Frat Party) Rape"?

[Deleted]

Nov 23, 2014 0:36:16 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

It's aboninable this is still happening on campuses. I agree - call POLICE - not the college security, who'll no doubt sweep cases under the rug.

What appalls me more, the link states U of Virginia (and possibly other colleges) called the march a "Slut Walk". That doesn't help any.

Why couldn't they call it a "March Against College (or Frat Party) Rape"?

Average attention span of the average college partier would be my guess...

"Slut Walk" = 2 words, 8 letters total
"March Against College Rape" = 4 words, 23 letters total
"March Against Frat Party Rape" = 5 words, 25 letters total

[gooddecisions]

Nov 23, 2014 0:36:16 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

It's aboninable this is still happening on campuses. I agree - call POLICE - not the college security, who'll no doubt sweep cases under the rug.

What appalls me more, the link states U of Virginia (and possibly other colleges) called the march a "Slut Walk". That doesn't help any.

Why couldn't they call it a "March Against College (or Frat Party) Rape"?

The "university" didn't call it that. The students who organized the walk did. It's become a world wide movement, similar to "take back the night." It's aim is to raise awareness about victim blaming and slut shaming in regards to sexual assault. The people who organize the event have most likely been called sluts instead of victims.

Even in a progressive 2014- people are still slut shaming. I've read 1000's of comments now about how the women who have come forward about Cosby are just a bunch money hungry, lying sluts. Never mind that it's more likely that they are telling the truth. There are strength in numbers and it doesn't surprise me at all that this snowballing. Regardless, since an actor played a nice guy on t.v. he couldn't possibly do that.

It does not surprise me that university administration keeps crime, and make no mistake- this is criminal, as quiet as possible. It's in their best interest to maintain the university's reputation. University is not your friend when it comes to crime.

[Waffle]

Nov 22, 2014 23:42:10 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Two words: money talks 

Sad, but true.

 
There were so many disgusting things in that article.  One that really struck me is how her friends were debating about whether or not to take her to the hospital.  The passage below is from the RS article that Gooddecisions linked to earler.

"We have to get her to the hospital," Randall said.

Their other two friends, however, weren't convinced. "Is that such a good idea?" she recalls Cindy asking. "Her reputation will be shot for the next four years." Andy seconded the opinion, adding that since he and Randall both planned to rush fraternities, they ought to think this through. The three friends launched into a heated discussion about the social price of reporting Jackie's rape, while Jackie stood beside them, mute in her bloody dress, wishing only to go back to her dorm room and fall into a deep, forgetful sleep. Detached, Jackie listened as Cindy prevailed over the group: "She's gonna be the girl who cried 'rape,' and we'll never be allowed into any frat party again."

[Tennesseer]

Nov 23, 2014 8:29:36 GMT -5 gooddecisions said:

Nov 23, 2014 0:36:16 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

It's aboninable this is still happening on campuses. I agree - call POLICE - not the college security, who'll no doubt sweep cases under the rug.

What appalls me more, the link states U of Virginia (and possibly other colleges) called the march a "Slut Walk". That doesn't help any.

Why couldn't they call it a "March Against College (or Frat Party) Rape"?

The "university" didn't call it that. The students who organized the walk did. It's become a world wide movement, similar to "take back the night." It's aim is to raise awareness about victim blaming and slut shaming in regards to sexual assault. The people who organize the event have most likely been called sluts instead of victims.

Even in a progressive 2014- people are still slut shaming. I've read 1000's of comments now about how the women who have come forward about Cosby are just a bunch money hungry, lying sluts. Never mind that it's more likely that they are telling the truth. There are strength in numbers and it doesn't surprise me at all that this snowballing. Regardless, since an actor played a nice guy on t.v. he couldn't possibly do that.

It does not surprise me that university administration keeps crime, and make no mistake- this is criminal, as quiet as possible. It's in their best interest to maintain the university's reputation. University is not your friend when it comes to crime.

Correct on the origin of 'Slut Walk'.

[Deleted]

What is wrong with boys who join gang rape? What kid ever think that is okay? Something sick and wrong with the boys that do this.

[Opti]

That was a tough article to read and horrible finding out UVA is pro cover up

on issues like this.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

The "university" didn't call it that. The students who organized the walk did. It's become a world wide movement, similar to "take back the night."

Yes, I know it's become wide-spread. I read about the one in Chicago last year.

I'm also aware of "Take Back the Night" - I've participated.

What I was getting at, was that by naming it a "Slut Walk", it sends out the wrong message - or at least a mixed message.

Why does the word "Slut" even have to be used? It's like branding all college or university co-eds as "loose", for lack of better words.

[Deleted]

It is the problem that girls don't report when incident happens. How anyone to do anything a year or two later. Fact is that kid drinks and don't report because they get arrested for underage drinking at same time other crime reported. This girl only tell and take advice from other young kids that don't know law or anything. Now she can tell her story because what happened is wrong. Still too late for anyone to get proof. I still think it sick that anyone think okay for boys to behave this way. Who raises boy to think gang rape okay? I think noone!

[gooddecisions]

Nov 23, 2014 13:06:49 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

Colleges have a vested interest in not helping victims report these crimes.  What parent would send their daughter to some of these schools if they knew how widespread these problems are?

I read in a different article that men who had been accused of campus rape had, on average, committed 6 previous rapes on campus.

RAPE is the most common violent crime on American college campuses.

1 in 4 college women will be the victim of sexual assault during her academic career.

3 percent of college men report surviving rape or attempted rape as a child or an adult.

Survivors of rape or sexual assault are 4 times more likely to be victimized by someone they know than by a stranger?

It is estimated that almost 25 percent of college women have been victims of rape or attempted rape since the age of 14.

Every 21 hours there is a rape on an American college campus.

College women are most vulnerable to rape during the first few weeks of their freshman and sophomore years.

1 in 12 college-age men admit having fulfilled the prevailing definition of rape or attempted rape, yet virtually none of these men identify themselves as rapists.

75 percent of the men and 55 percent of the women involved in acquaintance rapes were drinking or taking drugs just before the attack.

Men are more likely than women to assume that a woman who drinks alcohol on a date is a willing sex partner. 40% of men who think this way also believe it is acceptable to force sex on an intoxicated woman.

College rape victims receive external physical injuries in over 47% of all rapes

www.clevelandrapecrisis.org/resources/statistics/sexual-violence-on-college-campuses

Excellent point. Just like drunk drivers (hardly comparable, but I'm throwing it out there because it's another no big deal crime, unless they actually get arrested)- rarely is the time they got caught, the only time they've done it.

And it's not just a women's issue. I was shocked when I watched the episode of Oprah with 200 men in her audience who were molested. They discussed some very alarming statistics as well.

[weltschmerz]

Nov 23, 2014 11:18:01 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

The "university" didn't call it that. The students who organized the walk did. It's become a world wide movement, similar to "take back the night."

Yes, I know it's become wide-spread. I read about the one in Chicago last year.

I'm also aware of "Take Back the Night" - I've participated.

What I was getting at, was that by naming it a "Slut Walk", it sends out the wrong message - or at least a mixed message.

Why does the word "Slut" even have to be used? It's like branding all college or university co-eds as "loose", for lack of better words.

It has to be called Slutwalk. That's the whole point....that how we dress is NOT an invitation to rape.

When a Toronto police officer made the off-the-cuff remark that women shouldn’t ‘dress like sluts’ to avoid being sexually victimized, he probably didn’t expect the worldwide wave of indignation his comment would unleash. From Canada to Australia, an international series of marches known as “SlutWalks” are being organised by women protesting for the right to wear what they like and behave how they choose without facing sexual harassment.

observers.france24.com/content/20110510-sluts-world-unite-against-sexual-violence-slutwalks-toronto-boston

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Yes, but back to the OP, colleges have to start taking more responsibility that "Frat Pary" or campus rape is real - and stop masking it or sweeping it under the rug, or blaming the victim.

If a girl goes to a college party, should it just be assumed that if she's drinking, or wearing a mini-skirt, low shirt, she's asking for it? Or she's there looking for action?

It seems like it's almost a Frat "right-of-passage" - to become one of the good-old-boys of "Delta Phi Whatever", prove you're a player or stud.

Since some of the incidents in frat houses are 'gang rapes', these young men think it's cool and okay - and nothing's being done to stop it or teach them otherwise.

Time for colleges to stop masking the problem - which they don't do to protect the victim - they do it to protect the college's "good name".

[NastyWoman]

Nov 23, 2014 13:06:49 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

Colleges have a vested interest in not helping victims report these crimes.  What parent would send their daughter to some of these schools if they knew how widespread these problems are?

I read in a different article that men who had been accused of campus rape had, on average, committed 6 previous rapes on campus.

.

Let me re-iterate: money talks. And in more ways than one: if rapes were reported with their real prevalence parents might not be willing to send their daughters (and money) to schools like UVA, donors might not send big checks to these schools to avoid getting their names linked to this situation.  And than there are the perpetrators and their parents who threaten to sue schools if the guilty are kicked out of school. WTF!

I think there is a real case for taking anything that classifies as more than a misdemeanor out of the jurisdiction of campus police.  There is too much conflict of interest! 

[Bluerobin]

We enabled the colleges, when we gave them their own police forces.  Time to change that and have all such police forces report to the city first.  The colleges can bear the cost of providing the policing, but the force reports to the city.  That may make the police more responsible.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 24, 2014 11:04:17 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

The college police force should stick to being more like security guards, and hand it over to the city police once a crime has been committed.

Edit:  And where was the campus police while the party was going on?  Seems like it would be pretty easy to find a frat party on a college campus, and do a walk through every once in awhile.

I would think an indoor frat party is a private party. Do you want campus security or the local police to walk through private parties if no complaints have been called in? An outside party where a permit was required and issued is a different matter.

[NancysSummerSip]

It happens because it's easy to cover up. Frat houses basically seem to answer to no one. They are their own little kingdoms, and the privilege of belonging means you must be loyal to the cause, no matter how vile the cause may be. And the "boys will be boys" part of our culture has never really changed. The mere idea that the girls show up at the frathouse door is carte blanche for rape. Never mind that the girls don't see it that way.

If one of the girls mentioned in the Rolling Stone article was my daughter, I would not be interested in merely shutting down the frat. I'd be waging war on the entire damned campus. And God help him if one of the rapists was my son. Anything the justice system meted out as punishment would be playtime compared to what he'd get from me.

[imanangel]

Nov 23, 2014 11:18:01 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

The "university" didn't call it that. The students who organized the walk did. It's become a world wide movement, similar to "take back the night."

Yes, I know it's become wide-spread. I read about the one in Chicago last year.

I'm also aware of "Take Back the Night" - I've participated.

What I was getting at, was that by naming it a "Slut Walk", it sends out the wrong message - or at least a mixed message.

Why does the word "Slut" even have to be used? It's like branding all college or university co-eds as "loose", for lack of better words.

It is called Slut Walk because those of us that have been raped have been called sluts.  We have been told that it is our fault.  If we would just have not had any alcohol, if we just didn't dress that way... we have been accused of sending our rapist mixed messages

You may not agree with the wording, but it is to make a stand.  It is done to draw attention to the issue.  Sometimes you have to use bold, vulgar words to draw attention to a serious issue.

[justme]

The college I went to had legit police. They had a mini holding cell before you get shipped off to the actual jail, and once the campus police get you, you are arrested and have to go through the justice system. I witnessed this play out. I don't recall seeing any campus security that wasn't police. 911 calls are routed specifically to the campus police for short response time, but they're still 911 calls. (This system helped the school thwart a campus shooting before the guy hurt anyone). The on-campus frats didn't have as crazy of parties (most saved that for off campus hosing) but on the weekends at least one cruiser was parked on frat row. Also, there was at least one cruiser at the apartments associated with the school. I can't recall if it was college or regular police at the non-associated student apartments on the weekend, but they were there.

Now, I'm sure sexual assault happened there even with the police (though all the friends that I know that were during college went to another school) but I never witnessed a culture that covered it up. During orientation they talked about the emergency lights and how fast police response and to use them. They had a service that would escort anyone who called around campus at night. The one frat that had a bad reputation was thrown out my second year for hazing and other violations (never heard what those were). The school also axed a couple more frats while  I was there also for hazing (didn't hear about assault issues with them).

I hope my school is still like there and if my experience was the norm I hope maybe other schools will start operating like that. 

[mmhmm]

Nov 23, 2014 14:15:31 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

Yes, but back to the OP, colleges have to start taking more responsibility that "Frat Pary" or campus rape is real - and stop masking it or sweeping it under the rug, or blaming the victim.

If a girl goes to a college party, should it just be assumed that if she's drinking, or wearing a mini-skirt, low shirt, she's asking for it? Or she's there looking for action?

It seems like it's almost a Frat "right-of-passage" - to become one of the good-old-boys of "Delta Phi Whatever", prove you're a player or stud.

Since some of the incidents in frat houses are 'gang rapes', these young men think it's cool and okay - and nothing's being done to stop it or teach them otherwise.

Time for colleges to stop masking the problem - which they don't do to protect the victim - they do it to protect the college's "good name".

Delta Phi Rapere, perhaps?

I'm so sorry this happened to the poor girl; however, I'm glad to see this kind of thing coming to light, going viral, and bringing attention to what's been going on for far too long. There's absolutely no excuse for it, and no excuse for the perpetrators not being apprehended, tried and convicted if guilty. Campus police should most definitely not have any say in what is a violent crime.

[NancysSummerSip]

Nov 24, 2014 12:58:06 GMT -5 @anne81 said:

I find it even stranger that they are having faculty and students adjudicate these cases. In no way are faculty and students equipped to determine if a crime happened or what the punishment should be.

Agreed, on two counts: too close to the situation, and nowhere near the training required.

[justme]

Yes, because people are always of sound mind after they've been attacked. Or, they get over it really quickly so when they're discussing it months later there's no way they're still affected by the trauma. And society doesn't pressure and try to mold females into being "good girls" and not wanting to hurt anyone.

ARGH! You'd think it'd make more sense to have a psychologist or someone more experienced with what happens to people after a sexual attack in charge of helping them.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

What kool-aid is that woman drinking?

So according to her pea brain the rapist hanging his head and saying "I'm sorry" is good enough punishment?

The victim isn't "satisfied" you've intimidated her into silence by making it clear this is all she will get and if she pushes for more she'll be torn apart in front of her fellow students and faculty members in a joke of a hearing.

I always "love" the attitude of people that if you were really raped that you would do more to make sure your rapist is punished.

Uh. .. considering what I have seen on these boards and then witnessed in my own community (the victim was a FOUR YEAR OLD) I can totally understand why these crimes go un-reported.   You've already been a victim once, why would you want to subject yourself to those kinds of comments/humiliation on top of it?  

[hoops902]

Nov 24, 2014 11:55:01 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 24, 2014 11:04:17 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

The college police force should stick to being more like security guards, and hand it over to the city police once a crime has been committed.

Edit:  And where was the campus police while the party was going on?  Seems like it would be pretty easy to find a frat party on a college campus, and do a walk through every once in awhile.

I would think an indoor frat party is a private party. Do you want campus security or the local police to walk through private parties if no complaints have been called in? An outside party where a permit was required and issued is a different matter.

I would think it's not a private party if it happens at a frat house registered as part of the university.  It's a university event.

The hard part is many uppercassmen in these frats rent out houses together that are not the official frat houses, and have parties there. 

[hoops902]

I think the hard part of many of these frat party binge-drinking "rapes" is that often the determination of a rape seems to be made because the woman woke up, couldn't remember what happened, knew something sexual occurred, and therefore she was raped.  If a guy wakes up, can't remember what happened, and remembers something sexual happened, it's determined that he blacked out and had a good time.

You can't just put the responsibility on the guy to make sure the woman is coherent, of sound mind, etc...when often the guy is the same way.  If 2 wasted people hook up and have blackouts of the night, that isn't rape.  But if you're blacked out, how do you ever know?  There also seems to often be a presumption (separate from the rape issue, but with females in general in my experience) that once you stop remembering what happened last night, the answer is that you passed out and were unconscious.  Guys seem much more prone to the "I can't remember last night, what did I do".  Women in my experience seem more prone to "I passed out early last night" (when the reality is, no you didn't, you were up and active most of the night, you just don't remember).  Again, just my experience with a relatively limited scope.  I do think that feeds into the idea that if you're a woman and you can't remember, it must have been a rape as opposed to a blackout (further complicated by whether you were blacked out, unconscious from drinking, unconscious from something being slipped into your drink, etc).  How is someone who can't remember the night going to competently remember if they were active but blacked out, or actually unconscious?  It's a far more complicated issue than what a lot of people commonly think of when they hear "rape" (she was coherent, she said no, the guy forced himself on her, she knows exactly what happened).

[Opti]

Hoops, you didn't read the article at all did you? She was assaulted right when

she entered the room and was apparently conscious for all of it. It was a planned

gang rape.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 24, 2014 18:37:02 GMT -5 Ratchets said:

Nov 24, 2014 11:55:01 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

I would think an indoor frat party is a private party. Do you want campus security or the local police to walk through private parties if no complaints have been called in? An outside party where a permit was required and issued is a different matter.

I would think the frat house is on the college campus? Maybe they aren't...I don't know for sure. If it's on the campus and the college gives a crap, they could have the security walk through once an hour or so. And normally I would say it's none of their business and let the kids be kids, but it seems like things have gotten out of control.

Many college and university frat houses are off campus too.