muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 19, 2014 11:06:59 GMT -5
DD doesn't like to sleep in the car and wakes up as soon as the car stops. So on road trips, once she falls asleep, we go as long as she is still sleeping. I think my bladder still hates me from our Alabama trip. On the way home we'd been in the car for an hour and a half when she finally fell asleep. I was like ok, I guess i'm holding it as long as I can. She was sleeping great until we reached the last town before the road became limted access. I only 3 more stop lights to get through and then it would be smooth sailing for 100 miles. Yeah, we get stopped at a stop light and it wakes her up. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/headbang.gif) I was ready for a break (we still had 2 hours until we got home), but man we were almost through. It was probably a good thing since the next town wasn't for 20 miles, but still.
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sunbee
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Post by sunbee on Nov 19, 2014 11:16:41 GMT -5
10 am seems to me like a pretty decent time for a home school party, actually. (Tomorrow is home school skate at 10 am.) The kids who need a morning nap still can take it in their stroller. The rest, well, those who are old enough to do other activities, when else are you going to get them together? The big downside is that morning activities mess with schoolwork, which irritates me, not the kids, so I try to remind myself that we don't have inservice and all the other part and no school days and we don't take the school breaks--just camps, vacation, holidays, and fair week, so the kids are still getting plenty of school time even if we drop a few subjects once or twice a month for home school activities.
But then, the main reason to be involved with the local home school group is for my sanity. That the kids meet other kids who are like them is a side-benefit. Hanging out with adults who don't ask "But what about socialization?" or ask questions about whether or not we are allowed to do what we're doing is good for my brain.
A schedule ought to be a tool, so the kids know what they should be doing when Mom's not able to tell them, not a dictator that doesn't let the needs of the family come first. My observation is that the people who have trouble with small kids not taking naps out and about are the people who provide a silent environment at home for them. Whether this is because those kids can't sleep in a noisy environment or because they're accustomed to a quiet one, I have no idea, bit I suppose those folks just have to wait for their kids to stop napping to be able to do things. The older kids, at least in our group, have a wide variety of extra curricular activities in the afternoons and evenings, so days are our best bet to get together.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Nov 19, 2014 11:23:53 GMT -5
I thought about posting but then I realized if I posted my kids schedule/lack of back in the dark ages a lot of monitors would probably explode. Or worse yet, some folks here might kill over with heart failure and I don't want to be responsible for that
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Nov 19, 2014 11:59:35 GMT -5
Enh, we probably wouldn't explode. With very few exceptions, I generally dont have a problem with the way other people raise their kids. They are their kids. If your kids work well with no schedules, more power to you.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Nov 19, 2014 12:01:15 GMT -5
I didn't schedule weekends around nap time and don't remember problems. I have one friend that for 2 years scheduled her entire life around her child - weekends/evenings - it gets old hearing oh I can't do that, it's nap time.
also, how are you guys getting your kids to sleep at 6 or 7 pm - I was barely getting home from work at that time and once the kids got older they had practice until 7 or so? Wow, that must have been tough for you. I imagine her life during that time was a delight to her, but screw her for disappointing you.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Nov 19, 2014 12:22:31 GMT -5
When DS was little- I put him on a routine, not a schedule. Sleep- eat-play repeat. It gave us a lot of flexibility as he could easily adjust (even at a young age).
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Nov 19, 2014 12:38:52 GMT -5
Once again I give great thanks to the parenting gods who deemed it necessary to shove a horseshoe up my a$$. We are people of a routine. DD appeared to like the routine. If we made sure she had a nap at roughly the same time and went to bed at the same time, then we could almost always count on her never getting cranky. We never tempted fate by testing what would happen if we tried to change our routine (well for the most part not - when taking long road trips we knew the times we could count on her to take a nap). Hell, even now that she's 12 we don't have to argue about bedtimes. The kids likes her sleep, needs her sleep, and almost always knows that she needs to go the bed at a certain time to get enough of it! (Only 6 more years of ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/pray.gif) for the kid to remain reasonable!!!)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 14:29:51 GMT -5
Lol. Always fun to discuss kids and parenting FYI, I wasn't one of the eye rollers/giggles. I know that faction thinks the strict nappers are coddling, or something of the sort. I was actually trying not to assume it was a parent imposed behavior, wondering if in at least some cases it wasn't child inspired. Like I said, it never occurred to me when I had littles. Mine didn't need that structure. I didn't ignore them, it just wasn't something on my radar. I have friends whose older kids (9 at least) still go to bed at 7. Not just babies. As for this specific item, Homeschool events are usually at varied times. I know gymnastics was scheduled at noon Monday, Tuesday Children Museum was at 10, Ice Skating tomorrow is 11:30-2, Friday teen meet starts at 1. Playground or library dates usually start at lunch or right after. Book Club at 11. I personally would have done a Christmas part in the evening so dads could come too..no biggie though. I asked my kids if they wanted to skip normal Friday lessons to go, but they declined.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Nov 19, 2014 14:40:57 GMT -5
Thank you!!
DD did the same thing. I remember crying to DH, "We have to take her to the doctor, there's something wrong with her, the books say she's supposed to sleep 22 hours a day!" when she was a few weeks old and sleeping 12-14 hours a day. She has "sleepy" windows of time -- and if you don't get her to sleep within one of those windows (and OMG they are short), she just stays awake until the next one, even if it means staying up for 10-12 hours straight.
That being said, we don't have a strict schedule -- but if we're traveling or aren't going to be home for her bedtime/naptime, I will try like hell to get her to sleep wherever we are. Otherwise she just stays up. She's already getting way less sleep than is recommended for her age (and has since birth), I don't want to make it worse.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 14:44:45 GMT -5
My daughter was like that when she had red dye.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 19, 2014 14:51:53 GMT -5
My daughter was like that when she had red dye. You gave your newborn red dye?? You know a brand new baby straight out of the womb just being breastfed and you think oh red dye. Really? I'm sorry but my response is a to that. I'm trying to be joking about it, but I just can't. do you think about what we are actually talking about? Not a kid, a BABY. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/headbang.gif) Sometimes I wish i could make other people live a week in my life (or DH's) when DS was a baby. There is a reason the wall had a hole in it one day when I came home from work. DS had not slept all freakin day. So we coslept - great, except he would not fall asleep until I DID. Sleep training, cosleeping, NONE OF IT MADE A F#$King DIFFERENCE. (yes I have some PTSD from that year that is now almost 5 years ago). ETA: Sticking to a strict schedule helped. Which is why we did it. But everything else, forget about it.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Nov 19, 2014 14:58:35 GMT -5
My daughter was like that when she had red dye. You gave your newborn red dye?? You know a brand new baby straight out of the womb just being breastfed and you think oh red dye. Really? I'm sorry but my response is a big ole f#$K you to that. I'm trying to be joking about it, but I just can't. do you think about what we are actually talking about? Not a kid, a BABY. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/headbang.gif) Sometimes I wish i could make other people live a week in my life (or DH's) when DS was a baby. There is a reason the wall had a hole in it one day when I came home from work. DS had not slept all freakin day. So we coslept - great, except he would not fall asleep until I DID. Sleep training, cosleeping, NONE OF IT MADE A F#$King DIFFERENCE. (yes I have some PTSD from that year that is now almost 5 years ago). Hey, easy there. I didn't read it as a snark. You'd be surprised at how many people don't know about that connection with red dye. I had a friend who thought it was perfectly ok to give her baby hawaiin punch because it had 10% fruit juice...we had some pretty epic disagreements about how processed foods could actually impact behavior. She's now swung 180 degress and won't even let her poor kids eat hot dogs. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/melancholy.png) I have a close friend who came very close to giving up one of her newborns because of bonding/colic issues. It took a strong support network of grandparents, other moms/friends, and a saint of a husband to get them through the first few years. I'm sorry you had to go through something like that as well.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 15:18:16 GMT -5
Most baby liquid medications are pink.
I found out when daughter, who I didn't know had a double ear infection till we were in for a checkup, was given meds and didn't sleep for 24 hours. I called because I thought the ear infection must be getting worse, but they said, oh, it's probably the dye, take her off it, and I did and no problem... Had to ask for and pay extra for white meds.
After her surgery at 10 months I told everyone in that hospital no red. The doc still prescribed red meds. She didn't sleep except for a few hours when I rocked her hard for a few hours. I couldn't wait to get home, call my doc and have him prescribe me something else... No one in the hospital would.
As soon as she could get off any kind of liquid med we did. I have no idea why they put Red dye in baby meds.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Nov 19, 2014 15:56:34 GMT -5
Most baby liquid medications are pink. I found out when daughter, who I didn't know had a double ear infection till we were in for a checkup, was given meds and didn't sleep for 24 hours. I called because I thought the ear infection must be getting worse, but they said, oh, it's probably the dye, take her off it, and I did and no problem... Had to ask for and pay extra for white meds. After her surgery at 10 months I told everyone in that hospital no red. The doc still prescribed red meds. She didn't sleep except for a few hours when I rocked her hard for a few hours. I couldn't wait to get home, call my doc and have him prescribe me something else... No one in the hospital would. As soon as she could get off any kind of liquid med we did. I have no idea why they put Red dye in baby meds. I (knock on wood) never had to give DD medicine as an infant or even as a very young child. I would not have made this connection even knowing what I know about red dye. One time when we gave her prescription cough syrup the pharmacist looked at me like I had a third eye when I asked if the optional flavoring (cherry) had red dye.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 19, 2014 16:10:05 GMT -5
You gave your newborn red dye?? You know a brand new baby straight out of the womb just being breastfed and you think oh red dye. Really? I'm sorry but my response is a big ole f#$K you to that. I'm trying to be joking about it, but I just can't. do you think about what we are actually talking about? Not a kid, a BABY. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/headbang.gif) Sometimes I wish i could make other people live a week in my life (or DH's) when DS was a baby. There is a reason the wall had a hole in it one day when I came home from work. DS had not slept all freakin day. So we coslept - great, except he would not fall asleep until I DID. Sleep training, cosleeping, NONE OF IT MADE A F#$King DIFFERENCE. (yes I have some PTSD from that year that is now almost 5 years ago). Hey, easy there. I didn't read it as a snark. You'd be surprised at how many people don't know about that connection with red dye. I had a friend who thought it was perfectly ok to give her baby hawaiin punch because it had 10% fruit juice...we had some pretty epic disagreements about how processed foods could actually impact behavior. She's now swung 180 degress and won't even let her poor kids eat hot dogs. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/melancholy.png) I have a close friend who came very close to giving up one of her newborns because of bonding/colic issues. It took a strong support network of grandparents, other moms/friends, and a saint of a husband to get them through the first few years. I'm sorry you had to go through something like that as well. I know she didn't intend to be snarky, and I wouldn't say it comes off snarky but my knee jerk reaction is that her response is flippant when you are talking about a newborn baby who hadn't had anything but breastmilk not sleeping - "Oh my kid acted that way on red dye". I guess i can't explain it. I mean she went through it for 24 hours. I went through it for 9 months. She had an easy solution. DS didn't have any red dye at birth. I don't even remember when he actually got any meds for the time. He was born right before the tylenol recall and we ended up not giving him meds even after the shots the first couple times because we didn't have any acetaminophen. He has never had an antibiotic. He's been one healthy kid (at least I got lucky there). Obviously I have some pretty strong reactions to this. It caused some PPD that I left untreated for too long. I finally got it treated, but I still had a lot of guilt that I let the PPD go as long as I did. It wasn't until I had DD that I finally felt like I felt like I should have after having DS. With DS, I was such a mess. Obviously DD came with her own challenges with DH having back surgery and she had her own sleep issues, but my experience and research with DS certainly made things easier to manage. But she really did (and still does) heal me.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Nov 19, 2014 16:22:29 GMT -5
I have always specifically sought out dye/flavor-free medication for DD. She was exclusively breastfed for the first 9-10 months, and I wasn't as careful with my diet as I was when I was pregnant, but she has been pretty much only formula-fed for the last month (and everything else in her diet is all-organic, primarily fruits and veggies) and there has been no change. If it's a food intolerance it's a pretty sneaky one.
If I wasn't before, I'm now convinced that some kids just don't sleep. And it is hard to explain the effect that a year of sleeping in 2-3 hour chunks has on your mental state to those who haven't been through it. But it fucking sucks, seriously sucks, and it is very easy to take "oh, well my kid did X" as an attack or judgment, even if it's not meant that way.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Nov 19, 2014 16:27:32 GMT -5
I mean she went through it for 24 hours. I went through it for 9 months. She had an easy solution. DS didn't have any red dye at birth. I don't even remember when he actually got any meds for the time. He was born right before the tylenol recall and we ended up not giving him meds even after the shots the first couple times because we didn't have any acetaminophen. He has never had an antibiotic. He's been one healthy kid (at least I got lucky there). Obviously I have some pretty strong reactions to this. It caused some PPD that I left untreated for too long. I finally got it treated, but I still had a lot of guilt that I let the PPD go as long as I did. It wasn't until I had DD that I finally felt like I felt like I should have after having DS. With DS, I was such a mess. Obviously DD came with her own challenges with DH having back surgery and she had her own sleep issues, but my experience and research with DS certainly made things easier to manage. But she really did (and still does) heal me. In my experience most parents impart much more guilt on themselves then would most objective observers. Kids are resilient and most (including my DD) don't remember much before the age of 5. I think that's by design to give inexperienced parents a buy on their mistakes ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) . What I'm saying is don't be too hard on yourself - there's plenty of other stuff to be guilty about.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 16:38:39 GMT -5
Kids can be allergic to stuff in breast milk. I couldn't have dairy or soy with son. His reactions were more physical, eczema and vomiting.
As Mid suggested, I do think kids have different sleep patterns. Thus why if someone in my house slept 12 hours I'd assume they were sick... We just don't sleep that long under normal circumstances.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 19, 2014 16:44:49 GMT -5
You aren't even trying to get my point. But whatever. Good for you. Your kids rocked their socks off.
In seriousness, obviously your kids were happy and content with the amount of sleep they were able to get on their own schedule and whim and that is. Mine were not. Not even close.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Nov 19, 2014 16:52:40 GMT -5
Sometimes I wish i could make other people live a week in my life (or DH's) when DS was a baby. There is a reason the wall had a hole in it one day when I came home from work. DS had not slept all freakin day. So we coslept - great, except he would not fall asleep until I DID. Sleep training, cosleeping, NONE OF IT MADE A F#$King DIFFERENCE. (yes I have some PTSD from that year that is now almost 5 years ago). ETA: Sticking to a strict schedule helped. Which is why we did it. But everything else, forget about it. I had a friend whose daughter was like that. She was born one day after my DS. She had a full head of hair at birth and within a couple months had rubbed off a ring of it and had a rash on her scalp from turning her head to see what was going on. She was up most of the day, and only slept like 6 hours a night. It was so bad, the ended up putting her (the daughter) on some medication to try and get her to sleep more. It was so hard on my friend, so I can completely sympathize. Did it get better?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 16:54:13 GMT -5
Your point seems to be your kid didn't sleep at all. I guess I don't see how your schedule helped then? I'm not trying to be snarky. I understand it was hard. The first three months of trying to feed daughter with a cleft palate weren't awesome either. Shit happens. I'm sorry you had it bad. Did you want me to give you a medal or something? I'm really not sure what I did to you to deserve the vitriol?
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Nov 19, 2014 16:56:52 GMT -5
They make sleeping pills for babies??
(Does she have any left??)
I'm kidding. I think.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 19, 2014 17:00:33 GMT -5
Sometimes I wish i could make other people live a week in my life (or DH's) when DS was a baby. There is a reason the wall had a hole in it one day when I came home from work. DS had not slept all freakin day. So we coslept - great, except he would not fall asleep until I DID. Sleep training, cosleeping, NONE OF IT MADE A F#$King DIFFERENCE. (yes I have some PTSD from that year that is now almost 5 years ago). ETA: Sticking to a strict schedule helped. Which is why we did it. But everything else, forget about it. I had a friend whose daughter was like that. She was born one day after my DS. She had a full head of hair at birth and within a couple months had rubbed off a ring of it and had a rash on her scalp from turning her head to see what was going on. She was up most of the day, and only slept like 6 hours a night. It was so bad, the ended up putting her (the daughter) on some medication to try and get her to sleep more. It was so hard on my friend, so I can completely sympathize. Did it get better? Yeah. At 9 months it was like a switched flipped (which is the only reason he got a sibling ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) ). He immediately started sleeping through the night on alternating nights. Then on the other nights he would be up only once (instead of 3 or 4 times). He would fall asleep easily (which was always his main problem). It was crazy. He's good now. He still has some issues fall asleep at night, but mostly he does good and sleeps 10-11 hours at night. But those first 9 months. I was beyond the end of my rope. DD was not quite as bad, but she still struggled to sleep and then 9 months, she suddenly slept really well. She's so funny now about bedtime ... although she still gets a bottle ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/shucks2.png) , she'll sit for her bottle on your lap and then she puts her bottle down and takes her babies and stuffed animals and throw them in her crib then try to climb into her crib. Bedtime with her is just so cute.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 17:04:03 GMT -5
They make sleeping pills for babies?? (Does she have any left??) I'm kidding. I think. At the hospital stay I discussed earlier the nurses offered to give her Benadryl to maybe counteract the dye... I was like, clear? No... Orange (or purple? )... Nah... Thanks anyway.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Nov 19, 2014 17:04:27 GMT -5
Your point seems to be your kid didn't sleep at all. I guess I don't see how your schedule helped then? I'm not trying to be snarky. I understand it was hard. The first three months of trying to feed daughter with a cleft palate weren't awesome either. Shit happens. I'm sorry you had it bad. Did you want me to give you a medal or something? I'm really not sure what I did to you to deserve the vitriol? Do you honestly not see how you are being dismissive of people with kids with sleep problems? That your comments come across that it was something I did. The red dye, the well my kid didn't sleep 12 hours, the allergies in breastfeeding. Every time I turn around you come across as saying it was something else. If we kept DS on a schedule/routine, he did much better. 1 or 2 nightwakings, actually taking a nap. It did help. I know because I know what it was like before we were able to get him on some sort of schedule and I know what it was like when it got blown to hell.
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Nov 19, 2014 17:10:53 GMT -5
Sometimes I wish i could make other people live a week in my life (or DH's) when DS was a baby. There is a reason the wall had a hole in it one day when I came home from work. DS had not slept all freakin day. So we coslept - great, except he would not fall asleep until I DID. Sleep training, cosleeping, NONE OF IT MADE A F#$King DIFFERENCE. (yes I have some PTSD from that year that is now almost 5 years ago). ETA: Sticking to a strict schedule helped. Which is why we did it. But everything else, forget about it. I had a friend whose daughter was like that. She was born one day after my DS. She had a full head of hair at birth and within a couple months had rubbed off a ring of it and had a rash on her scalp from turning her head to see what was going on. She was up most of the day, and only slept like 6 hours a night. It was so bad, the ended up putting her (the daughter) on some medication to try and get her to sleep more. It was so hard on my friend, so I can completely sympathize. Did it get better? That sounds just like DD. I have to put her down in a completely dark room and basically bore her to sleep. If there is anything at all going on, she has to be a part of it. Please tell me your friend's daughter turned out to be some sort of super genius or musical prodigy or something. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2014 17:11:23 GMT -5
I'm not dismissive. What I said was that it wasn't on my radar, the idea of having to be on a strict schedule. I said it comes up frequently lately in group, and I noticed on another thread, that some people really seem to stick to a schedule. I wondered if that was generally parent or child led. You are telling me in your case it was child led... Did I say that was wrong? As as for what can cause sleep disturbances, I do know that allergies can. I have some limited experience with that, so is brought it up. My kid doesn't sleep 12 hours...? I don't know why that is a bad thing to say? I'm not sure how I suggested you caused your child's sleep problems? Do you mean the chicken or the egg thing? Obviously your son's behavior was the inciting event, ie. His issues caused your schedule. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif)
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Nov 19, 2014 17:13:27 GMT -5
I had a friend whose daughter was like that. She was born one day after my DS. She had a full head of hair at birth and within a couple months had rubbed off a ring of it and had a rash on her scalp from turning her head to see what was going on. She was up most of the day, and only slept like 6 hours a night. It was so bad, the ended up putting her (the daughter) on some medication to try and get her to sleep more. It was so hard on my friend, so I can completely sympathize. Did it get better? Yeah. At 9 months it was like a switched flipped (which is the only reason he got a sibling ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/tongue.png) ). He immediately started sleeping through the night on alternating nights. Then on the other nights he would be up only once (instead of 3 or 4 times). He would fall asleep easily (which was always his main problem). It was crazy. He's good now. He still has some issues fall asleep at night, but mostly he does good and sleeps 10-11 hours at night. But those first 9 months. I was beyond the end of my rope. DD was not quite as bad, but she still struggled to sleep and then 9 months, she suddenly slept really well. She's so funny now about bedtime ... although she still gets a bottle ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/shucks2.png) , she'll sit for her bottle on your lap and then she puts her bottle down and takes her babies and stuffed animals and throw them in her crib then try to climb into her crib. Bedtime with her is just so cute. I'm glad it got better.
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Abby Normal
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Post by Abby Normal on Nov 19, 2014 17:17:14 GMT -5
I had a friend whose daughter was like that. She was born one day after my DS. She had a full head of hair at birth and within a couple months had rubbed off a ring of it and had a rash on her scalp from turning her head to see what was going on. She was up most of the day, and only slept like 6 hours a night. It was so bad, the ended up putting her (the daughter) on some medication to try and get her to sleep more. It was so hard on my friend, so I can completely sympathize. Did it get better? That sounds just like DD. I have to put her down in a completely dark room and basically bore her to sleep. If there is anything at all going on, she has to be a part of it. Please tell me your friend's daughter turned out to be some sort of super genius or musical prodigy or something. ![](//images.proboards.com/v5/smiley/tongue.png) Unfortunately for her, it never got "better". She's 13 now and still doesn't sleep much. At age 7 she was diagnosed with ODD (oppositional defiant disorder). So every day is still a struggle.
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Pants
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 27, 2010 19:26:44 GMT -5
Posts: 7,579
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Post by Pants on Nov 19, 2014 17:20:50 GMT -5
That sounds just like DD. I have to put her down in a completely dark room and basically bore her to sleep. If there is anything at all going on, she has to be a part of it. Please tell me your friend's daughter turned out to be some sort of super genius or musical prodigy or something. ![]() Unfortunately for her, it never got "better". She's 13 now and still doesn't sleep much. At age 7 she was diagnosed with ODD (oppositional defiant disorder). So every day is still a struggle. I don't know if you know, but now is the time to lie to MidJD.
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