Cutting Off the Nose To Spite the Face?

[Tennesseer]

How hard would it have been to add the one Muslim holy day to the school calendar? Insteading of adding it, the school board eliminated all reference to Christian and Jewish holy days too.


After Muslims seek equity, Christmas stricken from school calendar

Christmas and Easter have been stricken from next year’s school calendar in Montgomery County. So have Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah.

Montgomery’s Board of Education voted 7 to 1 Tuesday to eliminate references to all religious holidays on the published calendar for 2015-2016, a decision that followed a request from Muslim community leaders to give equal billing to the Muslim holy day of Eid al-Adha.

In practical terms, Montgomery schools will still be closed for the Christian and Jewish holidays, as in previous years, and students will still get the same days off, as planned.

Board members said Tuesday that the new calendar will reflect days the state requires the system to be closed and that it will close on other days that have shown a high level of student and staff absenteeism. Though those days happen to coincide with major Christian and Jewish holidays, board members made clear that the days off are not meant to observe those religious holidays, which they say is not legally permitted.

The main and most noticeable difference will be that the published calendar will not mention any religious holidays by name.

But Tuesday’s outcome was not at all what Muslim leaders intended. They called the decision a surprise — and a glaring mistake.

“By stripping the names Christmas, Easter, Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, they have alienated other communities now, and we are no closer to equality,” said Saqib Ali, a former Maryland state delegate and co-chair of the Equality for Eid Coalition. “It’s a pretty drastic step, and they did it without any public notification.”

Zainab Chaudry, also a co-chair of the coalition, expressed dismay, too, contending the school board’s members were willing to “go so far as to paint themselves as the Grinch who stole Christmas” to avoid granting equal treatment for the Muslim holiday.

“They would remove the Christian holidays and they would remove the Jewish holidays from the calendar before they would consider adding the Muslim holiday to the calendar,” she said.

Rest of article here: After Muslims seek equity, Christmas stricken from school calendar

[billisonboard]

Wow. 

[sesfw]

How hard would it have been to add the one Muslim holy day to the school calendar? Insteading of adding it, the school board eliminated all reference to Christian and Jewish holy days too.

Hindu?  Confucius?  Buddhist?  Catholic Saint Days?  Al Qaeda?  Where do you stop?  In this instance, this decision saves a lot of discussion and grief later.  The days haven't been eliminated, just the names have been changed.

The article also states the Muslim community encouraged their families to keep the kids home from school for the one day and the absentee rate of 5.6% for students increased just slightly.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 12, 2014 18:45:31 GMT -5 sesfw said:

How hard would it have been to add the one Muslim holy day to the school calendar? Insteading of adding it, the school board eliminated all reference to Christian and Jewish holy days too.

Hindu?  Confucius?  Buddhist?  Catholic Saint Days?  Al Qaeda?  Where do you stop?  In this instance, this decision saves a lot of discussion and grief later.  The days haven't been eliminated, just the names have been changed.

The article also states the Muslim community encouraged their families to keep the kids home from school for the one day and the absentee rate of 5.6% for students increased just slightly.

But the Muslim parents don't want their children missing a day of school while Christians and Jews are in class on the Muslim holy day. Everyone is off from school, including Muslim students, on school system recognized Christian and Jewish holy days.

I Imagine someone here might reply the Muslim parents should send their children to school on the Muslim holy day if they don't want their children to fall behind in class.  But why should they?  It is a holy day in their religion.

I wonder if some parents may get upset with Christmas break now called winter break (not acknowledging Christ) and Easter break now called Spring Break (again, not acknowledging Christ).  Some adults get angry regarding the use of Happy Holidays Instead of Merry Christmas.

[sesfw]

I wonder how many Christian families living in non-Christian (Asia?) areas are demanding Christian holidays be included in the school calendar.

[djAdvocate]

this reminds me of that state that banned marriage rather than complying with the district court order to allow gays to marry.

[billisonboard]

Nov 12, 2014 19:41:25 GMT -5 sesfw said:

I wonder how many Christian families living in non-Christian (Asia?) areas are demanding Christian holidays be included in the school calendar.

Not sure about Asia, but it seems like a lot of them in the non-Christian area called the United States demand them.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 12, 2014 19:41:25 GMT -5 sesfw said:

I wonder how many Christian families living in non-Christian (Asia?) areas are demanding Christian holidays be included in the school calendar.

Those non-Christian (Asia?) areas probably do not have the following in their nations' constitutions:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

We do.

[Green Eyed Lady]

When we were little, my mom used to just confiscate whatever we were fighting over if we couldn't come to an agreement.  Simple as that. Play fair or nobody plays.

[billisonboard]

Nov 12, 2014 20:27:33 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

When we were little, my mom used to just confiscate whatever we were fighting over if we couldn't come to an agreement.  Simple as that. Play fair or nobody plays.

If only that were what happened here.

[Green Eyed Lady]

That is what happened here. There are no religious holidays being represented. 

[saveinla]

Nov 12, 2014 19:41:25 GMT -5 sesfw said:

I wonder how many Christian families living in non-Christian (Asia?) areas are demanding Christian holidays be included in the school calendar.

I know in India at least -  Christmas, Diwali & Eid are all national holidays.

[Deleted]

Dropping the name but still getting the days off is a slap in the face to non-Christians and non-Jews that were looking for equality.

I can kind of understand the school system not wanting to add another day off (they get too many days off during the school year, already)... how about having the Muslim kids register with the office as "Observant of {Muslim Holiday}" and they that day is not counted against them as being absent.

Probably makes too much sense for a governmental entity (School Board) to understand.

[billisonboard]

Nov 12, 2014 20:35:25 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

That is what happened here. There are no religious holidays being represented. 

Yeah. "I am taking away the toy. Here Blue, have this thingamigig. Oh no, Green,that isn't the toy I just took from you two. That is now a thingamigig."

[Tennesseer]

Nov 12, 2014 20:38:19 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Dropping the name but still getting the days off is a slap in the face to non-Christians and non-Jews that were looking for equality.

I can kind of understand the school system not wanting to add another day off (they get too many days off during the school year, already)... how about having the Muslim kids register with the office as "Observant of {Muslim Holiday}" and they that day is not counted against them as being absent.

Probably makes too much sense for a governmental entity (School Board) to understand.

If I remember correctly, the article stated the day the Muslims took off to celebrate their holy day was considered an excused absence.

[billisonboard]

... how about having the Muslim kids register with the office as "Observant of {Muslim Holiday}" and they that day is not counted against them as being absent.

...

how about having the Christian kids register with the office as "Observant of Christmas" and then that day is not counted against them as being absent.

how about having the Jewish kids register with the office as "Observant of Rosh Hashanah" and then that day is not counted against them as being absent.

Of course, teachers would do the same.

[Green Eyed Lady]

Nov 12, 2014 20:41:39 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 12, 2014 20:35:25 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

That is what happened here. There are no religious holidays being represented. 

Yeah. "I am taking away the toy. Here Blue, have this thingamigig. Oh no, Green,that isn't the toy I just took from you two. That is now a thingamigig."

Sorry.  That makes no sense to me.

It's not a slap in the face. It's practical. There will be almost no kids in attendance if they hold school on Christmas day. In case you haven't noticed, Christians aren't the only people that celebrate Christmas. You might be missing 3 kids on the Muslim holiday. I'd be fine with them having the days off in....February...whatever....but you still aren't going to have any students (or teachers) during the Christian holidays. It's simply not practical to do it any other way.


The argument that missing one day of school is going to doom their child's school career is ridiculous. No sure how anybody expects to be taken seriously with arguments like that. It wasn't satisfactory to excuse the absence. It's only satisfactory if everybody else is required to stay home. So? No holidays observances. Fair to everyone.

[NastyWoman]

Nov 12, 2014 20:35:25 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

That is what happened here. There are no religious holidays being represented. 

No it isn't.  That would only be true if Xmas, Easter, Yom Kippur, etc. would be mandatory school days too for which the child would not be held responsible if it missed class.  However, if there was a test the day after one of those holidays and the child had missed the instructions, tough titty...

Not holding something against the child for missing a day of instructions is NOT he same as having the day off for all kids.

Besides, it's not like they couldn't have shortened time of around Xmas, in February, or add a day at the end of the school year would be that difficult to do. 

Never mind how many excuses anyone comes up with: this is in fact a slap in the face of the muslims (and no, I am not a muslim)

[Tennesseer]

If they are now going to call Christmas break Winter Break, why not move that time off to January.  No need to have it around Christmas.  They can have regular school days before and after Christmas and New Years Day.

[Tiny]

I wonder if some parents may get upset with Christmas break now called winter break (not acknowledging Christ) and Easter break now called Spring Break (again, not acknowledging Christ). Some adults get angry regarding the use of Happy Holidays Instead of Merry Christmas.

If it's a Christian Private School - then I would think parents would be upset. They don't have to cater to the non-Christians who attend the school. If it's a Public School I can't see why they would be upset.
I don't see what the big deal is with Winter and Spring Break. Most colleges/universities (and High Schools) call it that. I'm not sure how a Christian kid in a public school NOT seeing the days off at the end of the year labeled as "Christmas break" is gonna be traumatized or have a "Faith shattering" experience. I also don't think the non-Christian kids are religiously 'traumatized' by seeing it call "Christmas Break" but it most certainly sends a 'message' that they are the odd man out - IN A PUBLIC SCHOOL.

[Tiny]

Nov 12, 2014 21:13:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If they are now going to call Christmas break Winter Break, why not move that time off to January.  No need to have it around Christmas.  They can have regular school days before and after Christmas and New Years Day.

That's what sometimes happens with college schedules. Been there done that. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Nov 12, 2014 19:41:25 GMT -5 sesfw said:

I wonder how many Christian families living in non-Christian (Asia?) areas are demanding Christian holidays be included in the school calendar.

The point is that there is supposed to be NO religious observance at schools is the US.  This is the basis for religious freedom in the US, something the Constitution is based upon.

No other country has this claim, so this move essentially makes the school district (and the government that supports it) a hypocrite.

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Nov 12, 2014 21:01:31 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Nov 12, 2014 20:41:39 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Yeah. "I am taking away the toy. Here Blue, have this thingamigig. Oh no, Green,that isn't the toy I just took from you two. That is now a thingamigig."

Sorry.  That makes no sense to me.

It's not a slap in the face. It's practical. There will be almost no kids in attendance if they hold school on Christmas day. In case you haven't noticed, Christians aren't the only people that celebrate Christmas. You might be missing 3 kids on the Muslim holiday. I'd be fine with them having the days off in....February...whatever....but you still aren't going to have any students (or teachers) during the Christian holidays. It's simply not practical to do it any other way.


The argument that missing one day of school is going to doom their child's school career is ridiculous. No sure how anybody expects to be taken seriously with arguments like that. It wasn't satisfactory to excuse the absence. It's only satisfactory if everybody else is required to stay home. So? No holidays observances. Fair to everyone.

So why should Muslim kids have to miss any?  If you are going to have religious parity, it has to be fair across the board.  Christian and Jewish holy days are observed, why not Muslim?  

[Green Eyed Lady]

Nov 12, 2014 21:05:22 GMT -5 NastyWoman said:

Nov 12, 2014 20:35:25 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

That is what happened here. There are no religious holidays being represented. 

No it isn't.  That would only be true if Xmas, Easter, Yom Kippur, etc. would be mandatory school days too for which the child would not be held responsible if it missed class.  However, if there was a test the day after one of those holidays and the child had missed the instructions, tough titty...

Not holding something against the child for missing a day of instructions is NOT he same as having the day off for all kids.

Besides, it's not like they couldn't have shortened time of around Xmas, in February, or add a day at the end of the school year would be that difficult to do. 

Never mind how many excuses anyone comes up with: this is in fact a slap in the face of the muslims (and no, I am not a muslim)

Easter in on a Sunday. Do you wish to hold school on Sundays so Muslims aren't offended? Good luck with that one.   There is no such thing as a "mandatory" school day - only a "mandatory" number of school days. If there were "mandatory" school days, you wouldn't be allowed to call in sick, have a doctor's appointment, etc.   If your absence is excused, it is counted as one of those "mandatory" number of school days.  Shorten the time around Christmas?  Fine with me, but you aren't going to have any students in attendance.  You are going to have teachers required to be there with nobody to teach.  That doesn't make sense in any way.

And it isn't a simple case of adding a day at the end of the year.  If the next 100 religions want a day off (and want everybody else to stay home, too, when are you going to get those "mandatory" number of school days in?   Now throw in the Atheists and Agnostics that want their day off.  Just when, exactly, are the kids going to go to school. 

It's not a slap in the face unless one is determined to see it as such. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

Nov 12, 2014 21:13:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If they are now going to call Christmas break Winter Break, why not move that time off to January.  No need to have it around Christmas.  They can have regular school days before and after Christmas and New Years Day.

Because you aren't going to have any students there to teach during Christmas. As already stated, it's not only Christians who celebrate Christmas.  Nobody is going to come to school during the Christmas season.  ("Nobody" being an exaggeration but not much of one.)

[Green Eyed Lady]

Nov 12, 2014 21:25:10 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Nov 12, 2014 21:01:31 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Sorry.  That makes no sense to me.

It's not a slap in the face. It's practical. There will be almost no kids in attendance if they hold school on Christmas day. In case you haven't noticed, Christians aren't the only people that celebrate Christmas. You might be missing 3 kids on the Muslim holiday. I'd be fine with them having the days off in....February...whatever....but you still aren't going to have any students (or teachers) during the Christian holidays. It's simply not practical to do it any other way.


The argument that missing one day of school is going to doom their child's school career is ridiculous. No sure how anybody expects to be taken seriously with arguments like that. It wasn't satisfactory to excuse the absence. It's only satisfactory if everybody else is required to stay home. So? No holidays observances. Fair to everyone.

So why should Muslim kids have to miss any?  If you are going to have religious parity, it has to be fair across the board.  Christian and Jewish holy days are observed, why not Muslim?  

That's what they are doing.  No holiday observances. 

[Green Eyed Lady]

I do understand what people are saying. It's the timing of the days off. But that's for practical purposes.  For argument's sake, though, which month should be chosen? Because I bet I can find a reason to be offended by whatever month is chosen.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 12, 2014 21:30:29 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Nov 12, 2014 21:13:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

If they are now going to call Christmas break Winter Break, why not move that time off to January.  No need to have it around Christmas.  They can have regular school days before and after Christmas and New Years Day.

Because you aren't going to have any students there to teach during Christmas. As already stated, it's not only Christians who celebrate Christmas.  Nobody is going to come to school during the Christmas season.  ("Nobody" being an exaggeration but not much of one.)

If the days before and after Christmas are regular school days, then kids better show up for school. It will take a bit of adjust for the parents but they will just have to get used to it.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 12, 2014 21:32:18 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

Nov 12, 2014 21:25:10 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

So why should Muslim kids have to miss any?  If you are going to have religious parity, it has to be fair across the board.  Christian and Jewish holy days are observed, why not Muslim?  

That's what they are doing.  No holiday observances. 

So it's just a coincidence Christmas falls during winter break, eh?

[Deleted]

Nov 12, 2014 21:41:30 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 12, 2014 21:32:18 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

That's what they are doing.  No holiday observances. 

So it's just a coincidence Christmas falls during winter break, eh?

Yup. Just a miraculous coincidence! (especially considering that Jesus wasn't even born on Dec 25th!)