Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Nov 12, 2014 21:57:00 GMT -5
That's what they are doing. No holiday observances. So it's just a coincidence Christmas falls during winter break, eh? It's no coincidence at all and I never said it was. It's simply the time with most of the students are going to be gone because, yes, its the Christmas holiday season. It makes practical sense.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Look inna eye! Always look inna eye!
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Nov 12, 2014 21:58:34 GMT -5
So it's just a coincidence Christmas falls during winter break, eh? Yup. Just a miraculous coincidence! (especially considering that Jesus wasn't even born on Dec 25th!) Is this your contribution to a civil debate? Smart ass, ignorant remarks?
If you have something resembling intelligence to contribute, send out a flare and I'll unblock you.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 12, 2014 22:09:26 GMT -5
So it's just a coincidence Christmas falls during winter break, eh? It's no coincidence at all and I never said it was. It's simply the time with most of the students are going to be gone because, yes, its the Christmas holiday season. It makes practical sense.
I never said you did say it. It was really a rhetorical question. If you took it as a personal question to you, I apologize.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Nov 12, 2014 22:12:08 GMT -5
December 25, 2014 -> Thursday December 25, 2015 -> Friday
yom Kippur 2014 -> started at sun down on Friday 10/3 (no problem) Yom Kippur 2015 -> starts at sundown on 9/22/15 (a Tuesday OOOOOPS!)
We really should just celebrate Xmas thhis year on the 12/27 and next year we can use 12/26 right? And that fasting thingy and going to congregation on Yom Kippur? Come on you can always go to religious observations after school etc, right? Just so we are all equal and not just pretending that we are.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Nov 12, 2014 22:19:14 GMT -5
It's no coincidence at all and I never said it was. It's simply the time with most of the students are going to be gone because, yes, its the Christmas holiday season. It makes practical sense.
I never said you did say it. It was really a rhetorical question. If you took it as a personal question to you, I apologize. I surely didn't. I respect your opinion and, in theory, agree with it. Practically, it's different. I have no issues with the break being in January - especially since it's the end of the semester and makes sense. The problem is, kids still aren't going to be there. The parents will just call in an excuse them. My sister took my nephew out of school for two weeks in February for a trip to Florida. It was perfectly ok. People will just do that during Christmas and you won't have any kids there.
I ask that people respect my beliefs. In turn, I owe them the same. I have no issues with the Muslim community asking for equal treatment for their religions observance. I just feel it's been done in the most practical way possible.
ETA: I did take it as a personal question to me since you quoted my post, but I didn't take it personally!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2014 23:14:57 GMT -5
Yup. Just a miraculous coincidence! (especially considering that Jesus wasn't even born on Dec 25th!) Is this your contribution to a civil debate? Smart ass, ignorant remarks?
If you have something resembling intelligence to contribute, send out a flare and I'll unblock you.
While "Just a miraculous coincidence!" was (admittedly) a smart ass remark, it was meant tongue in cheek. However there's no need to call facts ignorant. It's an accepted truth that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. He wasn't even born anywhere near then. There's not a specific date ever mentioned, but it's fairly apparent that Jesus was born (According to Biblical record, anyway) in a non-Winter time (scholars argue whether it was Spring, Summer or Fall... but they all agree it WASN'T Winter) period. December 25 was picked by the Church to help annex non-believers into the fold by taking over Saturnalia (the Winter Solstice).
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Nov 13, 2014 6:56:55 GMT -5
It's not a slap in the face unless one is determined to see it as such.
![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif)
If someone is looking for something to object to they will find it. Not everyone is happy with what the majority rules.
Wonder how many people in all walks of the business world are willing to work Christmas Day. And I'm not talking about emergency and health fields.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 13, 2014 10:57:30 GMT -5
This is apparently the reason why Muslims wanted their holy day on the 2015-2016 school calendar. Would it really have been that difficult for the school calendar to note it? "Muslim leaders had for years requested that Montgomery’s schools be closed for at least one of the two major Muslim holy days. They had not succeeded, but in the 2015-2016 academic year, Eid al-Adha falls on the same day as Yom Kippur, which is a day off in Montgomery. So Muslim leaders asked for equal billing on the calendar." Backlash over Montgomery decision to strip Christmas from school calendar
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 13, 2014 11:03:56 GMT -5
I wasn't sorry when my old school system moved from Easter vacation to spring break. First of all, flights were cheaper to go elsewhere which we always did. I did feel bad for those who take Good Friday seriously because that became a work day.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Nov 13, 2014 11:05:08 GMT -5
It's not a slap in the face unless one is determined to see it as such.
![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif)
If someone is looking for something to object to they will find it. Not everyone is happy with what the majority rules. .
Nor were the Founding Fathers. Why else do you think the Senate has 2 seats for each state, independent of the number of people living there? democracy is not the same as tyranny by the masses.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 13, 2014 11:27:56 GMT -5
I wasn't sorry when my old school system moved from Easter vacation to spring break. First of all, flights were cheaper to go elsewhere which we always did. I did feel bad for those who take Good Friday seriously because that became a work day. Having attended Catholic schools, we were told we should not talk and remain silent between the hours of noon and 3 p.m. on Good Friday out of respect for Christ and his crucifixtion. For some reason, my employers never thought it was a good idea for me to remain silent beteeen the hours of noon and 3 p.m. on Good Friday.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 13, 2014 11:30:09 GMT -5
Yup, and I taught PE. Trust me, neither I or my students were quiet!
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Nov 13, 2014 14:32:33 GMT -5
I think it's smart to take religious holidays off the school calendar and hope more schools follow suit. While this country originated as Christian, the United States was always supposed to be a "melting pot." We haven't been a melting pot for a really long time. Every one now wants to celebrate diversity. That sounds great in theory, but if we're not able to melt together and we can't accommodate every tradition based on their country of origin or belief, then this reaction is the best course of action.
I also think it's smart to put breaks on the calendar when the majority of students and teachers will be out and calling it fall, winter and spring breaks to maintain neutrality. If they find the majority of students are out other days, maybe they can rethink the placement of fall, winter and spring breaks.
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Nov 13, 2014 15:22:56 GMT -5
While I can see why the Muslim population might not like this decision, I can see why it is necessary. If only 5.6% of the student/teacher population observes this holiday, it seems pointless to require it to be a closed holiday for the school. And if 5.6% of the student/teacher population is all it takes to add another day off to a school calendar that already takes many days off, what is to stop lesser populations of differing religions to request additional days off to observe their religion? This is a slippery slope, and I think the school is just trying to protect itself from the situation getting out of hand. Our school systems simply cannot observe every holiday of every religion as a day off from school unless they wanted to do away with summer break, and I have a feeling that wouldn't go over well.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Nov 13, 2014 16:01:10 GMT -5
Who says anything you have to take an additional day outof the schedule to do this? They could take "saint" Columbus day out of the vacation schedule or any of the other random days off. Or alternatively they could shorten one of the regular breaks to accomodate the extra days ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/idunno.gif)
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 13, 2014 16:06:05 GMT -5
... I also think it's smart to put breaks on the calendar when the majority of students and teachers will be out and calling it fall, winter and spring breaks to maintain neutrality. If they find the majority of students are out other days, maybe they can rethink the placement of fall, winter and spring breaks. The majority of students are out on the days that the school is closed because the school is closed. Schools are not closed because a majority of the students "will be out". Cause and effect.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 13, 2014 16:41:48 GMT -5
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hurley1980
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Post by hurley1980 on Nov 13, 2014 18:58:25 GMT -5
Where do you draw the line? I know a few Pagans. Should their holidays be recognized by the school system? Satanists, you know if a school announces equal billing for all religions they'll send at least one guy to raise hell about the Satanists being excluded. Buddhists? Hindus? Native American traditions? There were over 200 native tribes in this country before we wiped most of them out. That's a shitload of extra holy days to work into the calendar right there. African tribal belief systems? Their descendants are still living here. More Americans call in "sick" the day after Superbowl Sunday than any other non holiday day on the calendar. Should the church of football get that Monday as a recognized recovery day? It's apparently celebrated by more Americans than any non mainstream religious holiday. Honestly they might have a better case than the Muslims in the OP. This is what I was trying to get at....you just stated it much better.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 13, 2014 22:35:05 GMT -5
he's like a magician that only knows four tricks.
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Green Eyed Lady
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Post by Green Eyed Lady on Nov 13, 2014 23:01:18 GMT -5
He's just the start. I can't imagine anyone is surprised. I certainly wasn't. This outcome wasn't a possibility, it was an absolute certainty. What could be better to fan the flames of mistrust and hate? I surely don't understand it, but I'm not one bit surprised.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Nov 13, 2014 23:41:50 GMT -5
OK, here are a few random facts.....
Where we lived in MD, schools were closed on Rosh Hashana bc there was a large Jewish population and there were a lot of students that would have been absent on those two days.
Where we live right now, I am not sure if many people even know when Rosh Hashana is. May be they get an idea from grocery store flyers. May be not. But Christmas and Easter is a HUGE deal. And it's everywhere.
I, and many people I know, always had to take off on Rosh Hashana as a personal day from work, while I was pretty much forced to take off on Christmas. While I could always use a free cleaning day, I would have rather have the opposite. When I worked for a bank, we were closed on Good Friday too. Again, I didn't need the day off, but was forced into it.
My parents live not too far from a Mosque. Every Friday afternoon, there are local police officers safeguarding the place. And yes, it comes out of the tax payers money.
After 9-11 there was a religious service held, which was televised, that included POTUS and all other govt officials.
So....we have no separation of "church and state". None. Not in any kind of practical sense.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 14, 2014 0:15:10 GMT -5
He's just the start. I can't imagine anyone is surprised. I certainly wasn't. This outcome wasn't a possibility, it was an absolute certainty. What could be better to fan the flames of mistrust and hate? I surely don't understand it, but I'm not one bit surprised. GEL, you are becoming one of my favouritest posters. you are just full of pleasant surprises.
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Nov 17, 2014 22:07:33 GMT -5
Here is the root of the problem.
Our forefathers put G-d in the schools and our generation has kicked him out. And people wonder why there is so much evil going on.
Jesus's birth is celebrated on December 25. I apologize for not knowing the source document but I read somewhere his birth was researched in Jewish scrolls and found to be on June 7.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2014 22:32:38 GMT -5
Here is the root of the problem. Our forefathers put G-d in the schools and our generation has kicked him out. And people wonder why there is so much evil going on. Jesus's birth is celebrated on December 25. I apologize for not knowing the source document but I read somewhere his birth was researched in Jewish scrolls and found to be on June 7. Courtesy of the First Amendment, our Forefathers (at least the FOUNDING Fathers, of the U.S., if that's to whom you are referring) took "Sanctioned, and Required" faith/belief/worship in/of God out of our schools (and rightly so).
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 17, 2014 22:42:15 GMT -5
Here is the root of the problem. Our forefathers put G-d in the schools and our generation has kicked him out. And people wonder why there is so much evil going on. Jesus's birth is celebrated on December 25. I apologize for not knowing the source document but I read somewhere his birth was researched in Jewish scrolls and found to be on June 7. God never left the schools. He is there if you call upon Him. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is stopping students and teachers from silently praying to themselves.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Nov 18, 2014 9:55:24 GMT -5
No it isn't. That would only be true if Xmas, Easter, Yom Kippur, etc. would be mandatory school days too for which the child would not be held responsible if it missed class. However, if there was a test the day after one of those holidays and the child had missed the instructions, tough titty... Not holding something against the child for missing a day of instructions is NOT he same as having the day off for all kids. Besides, it's not like they couldn't have shortened time of around Xmas, in February, or add a day at the end of the school year would be that difficult to do. Never mind how many excuses anyone comes up with: this is in fact a slap in the face of the muslims (and no, I am not a muslim) Easter in on a Sunday. Do you wish to hold school on Sundays so Muslims aren't offended? Good luck with that one. There is no such thing as a "mandatory" school day - only a "mandatory" number of school days. If there were "mandatory" school days, you wouldn't be allowed to call in sick, have a doctor's appointment, etc. If your absence is excused, it is counted as one of those "mandatory" number of school days. Shorten the time around Christmas? Fine with me, but you aren't going to have any students in attendance. You are going to have teachers required to be there with nobody to teach. That doesn't make sense in any way.
And it isn't a simple case of adding a day at the end of the year. If the next 100 religions want a day off (and want everybody else to stay home, too, when are you going to get those "mandatory" number of school days in? Now throw in the Atheists and Agnostics that want their day off. Just when, exactly, are the kids going to go to school.
It's not a slap in the face unless one is determined to see it as such.
Just to be a pain in the ass, The Easter Celebration actually starts on Thursday night. Holy Thursday begins the first of the three days of the Easter Triduum, which ends on Sat. night. It's actually 1 Mass spread out over Thursday night, Friday and ends with the sunset Mass on Sat. night. And personally, as a parent, I like seeing the reason why my kids are off of school. Because I'm not going to be too snarky over religious holidays but I do get snarkier over days just listed as off. ONe last comment, I don't have a problem with adjusting the Christmas break to accommodate a different day off but last winter we had at least 4 days where schools were closed due to cold and/or snow. 2 days were built into the school calendar and the other 2 were made up by cancelling other days off. So I want a plan in place, preferably before the start of the school year when the calendar comes out.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Nov 18, 2014 11:22:03 GMT -5
I developed a calender for a small town public school district I worked in that was roughly 9 weeks on and three\four weeks off, accounting for standard break times, three day weekends, etc in which even our traditional community celebration was accommodated. Absolutely a non-starter.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Nov 20, 2014 14:40:54 GMT -5
Christmas break is one of the most important and formative parts of childhood? You're shitting me. you are such a Loser. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Nov 20, 2014 16:48:16 GMT -5
Getting a new game system when it came out was pretty awesome, but I'm not sure it would make the top 100 most formative events of my first 18 years on the planet. Don't get me wrong, presents are cool, but we still would have gotten them whether the day after Christmas is a school day or not. OK, I get that.
don't care about presents
don't care about the religious undertones
DO care about the time of reflection and time with extended family that isn't really possible by taking a day or two off
Thanksgiving?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 20, 2014 16:58:50 GMT -5
Christmas break is only 10 days here.
Summer is nearly three months. If the issue is having time with extended family wouldn't it make more sense to do it when the kids have three months to devote to it?
Not getting why Christmas break in particular is so important if you don't care about the religious undertones and it's just about spending time with family.
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