Saudi Council Reportedly Recommends Letting Some Women Drive

[Deleted]

Saudi Council Reportedly Recommends Letting Some Women Drive
November 07, 2014 3:56 PM ET



A Saudi woman poses in this picture to illustrate driving a car in Jiddah as part of a June 2011 protest. An advisory council has recommended for the first time lifting a ban on female drivers.

In an unprecedented move, a Saudi advisory council says it approves of lifting a ban on female drivers. The Shura Council proposes that certain restrictions be applied, however: Women must be at least 30, have permission from their male guardian, not wear makeup and drive only in daylight hours, The Associated Press reports.

For years, the kingdom has refused to review the ban on female drivers, which is unique to Saudi Arabia, where conservative Muslim clerics have expressed concerns that female drivers could spread "licentiousness."

The AP reports:

"The Shura Council's recommendations are not obligatory on the government. But simply making the recommendation was a startling shift after years of the kingdom's staunchly rejecting any review of the ban.

"The council member told The Associated Press that the Shura Council made the recommendations in a secret, closed session held in the past month. The member spoke on condition of anonymity because the recommendations had not been made public."

NPR

[Deleted]

Laws like women not being allowed to drive is why Religion and Government should never mix.

If the ban actually does get lifted, I shall be happier for the women that live there than I am now... but I still won't be "completely happy" until they are seen as equals to men... in everything.

[mmhmm]

Nov 7, 2014 22:45:53 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Laws like women not being allowed to drive is why Religion and Government should never mix.

If the ban actually does get lifted, I shall be happier for the women that live there than I am now... but I still won't be "completely happy" until they are seen as equals to men... in everything.

Frankly, Richard, the "women that live there" don't give a flip whether you're happy, or not.  Furthermore, many of them don't wish to be "seen as equals to men". They're happy with the lives they live. It's not your culture. It's theirs. You don't understand it? Big deal. Many Saudi women want to drive. I'm glad the strictures are loosening, but I've been expecting this. This is only the first, baby step. It'll take awhile. There are still many, many Saudi women who don't wish to drive. The Bedouin women have been driving their water trucks right along. We in the West need to mind our own damned business in things like this. We do not understand them.

[Tennesseer]

No makeup.

[mmhmm]

Nov 7, 2014 22:54:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

No makeup.

LOL!  I chuckled when I saw that, Tenn. Like I said, this is just the first, tentative baby step and it has to be accompanied by a pacifier. 

[Tennesseer]

Nov 7, 2014 22:56:09 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Nov 7, 2014 22:54:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

No makeup.

LOL!  I chuckled when I saw that, Tenn. Like I said, this is just the first, tentative baby step and it has to be accompanied by a pacifier. 

It's a start for sure and about time. But do they really think bright red lipstick will send all the male drivers crashing into each other?

[Deleted]

Nov 7, 2014 22:54:33 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

No makeup.

[mmhmm]

Nov 7, 2014 22:58:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Nov 7, 2014 22:56:09 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

LOL!  I chuckled when I saw that, Tenn. Like I said, this is just the first, tentative baby step and it has to be accompanied by a pacifier. 

It's a start for sure and about time. But do they really think bright red lipstick will send all the male drivers crashing into each other?

Nah. At least, the ones making these decisions don't. They know better. That, however, isn't who needs to be convinced. They've been convinced for years. We're talking about a change to the culture here, and one that will impact everyone - including the totally uneducated, rural, backward folk. It's going to take some doing, some negotiating, some capitulation, and some outright lies to make it happen.  It's going to happen, though. This is actually about a year sooner than I expected to see even a smoke signal.

[EVT1]

Damn liberals- what's next?  Voting?

[mmhmm]

Nov 7, 2014 23:10:41 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Damn liberals- what's next?  Voting?

Yep. The King has already approved that. Starts next year.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 7, 2014 23:09:25 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Nov 7, 2014 22:58:57 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

It's a start for sure and about time. But do they really think bright red lipstick will send all the male drivers crashing into each other?

Nah. At least, the ones making these decisions don't. They know better. That, however, isn't who needs to be convinced. They've been convinced for years. We're talking about a change to the culture here, and one that will impact everyone - including the totally uneducated, rural, backward folk. It's going to take some doing, some negotiating, some capitulation, and some outright lies to make it happen.  It's going to happen, though. This is actually about a year sooner than I expected to see even a smoke signal.

It's a start. Baby steps.

[EVT1]

Nov 7, 2014 23:12:34 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Nov 7, 2014 23:10:41 GMT -5 EVT1 said:

Damn liberals- what's next?  Voting?

Yep. The King has already approved that. Starts next year.

I saw that- running for office too. But:

     In an unprecedented move, a Saudi advisory council says it approves of lifting a ban on female drivers. The Shura Council proposes that certain restrictions be applied, however: Women must be at least 30, have permission from their male guardian, not wear makeup and drive only in daylight hours, The Associated Press reports.

Permission from their male guardian, no makeup- sounds like something the GOP could get behind   

[Deleted]

Nov 7, 2014 22:53:38 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Nov 7, 2014 22:45:53 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Laws like women not being allowed to drive is why Religion and Government should never mix.

If the ban actually does get lifted, I shall be happier for the women that live there than I am now... but I still won't be "completely happy" until they are seen as equals to men... in everything.

Frankly, Richard, the "women that live there" don't give a flip whether you're happy, or not.  Furthermore, many of them don't wish to be "seen as equals to men". They're happy with the lives they live. It's not your culture. It's theirs. You don't understand it? Big deal. Many Saudi women want to drive. I'm glad the strictures are loosening, but I've been expecting this. This is only the first, baby step. It'll take awhile. There are still many, many Saudi women who don't wish to drive. The Bedouin women have been driving their water trucks right along. We in the West need to mind our own damned business in things like this. We do not understand them.

I understand that they don't care about what I think, and my happiness for them isn't a "they should do it how I want them to" thing. It's a "they should be able to choose for themselves" thing. If subservience and being "less than a man" is working for them, and they are happy with it... AWESOME!

I understand that it's their culture. But can you, with your experience of having actually been there, say that 100% of the women that live in that culture are happy? If not, then my point has merit.

[Deleted]

Nov 7, 2014 23:44:44 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 7, 2014 22:53:38 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Frankly, Richard, the "women that live there" don't give a flip whether you're happy, or not.  Furthermore, many of them don't wish to be "seen as equals to men". They're happy with the lives they live. It's not your culture. It's theirs. You don't understand it? Big deal. Many Saudi women want to drive. I'm glad the strictures are loosening, but I've been expecting this. This is only the first, baby step. It'll take awhile. There are still many, many Saudi women who don't wish to drive. The Bedouin women have been driving their water trucks right along. We in the West need to mind our own damned business in things like this. We do not understand them.

I understand that they don't care about what I think, and my happiness for them isn't a "they should do it how I want them to" thing. It's a "they should be able to choose for themselves" thing. If subservience and being "less than a man" is working for them, and they are happy with it... AWESOME!

I understand that it's their culture. But can you, with your experience of having actually been there, say that 100% of the women that live in that culture are happy? If not, then my point has merit.

100% of women at USA are happy?

[EVT1]

I side with Mr. Richard- sure they have their ups and downs and are relatively happy- BUT that is like having a caged pet that smiles when you feed it.   

I remember one show that went into what it takes to deprogram a person from North Korea- fucking sad- and I think the same thing applies to these bullshit terrorists- they offer something to people faced with nothing-  and blame that nothing on the USA. 

Sad thing is the USA is far less free than those 'European Socialists'  We have our own bunch of programmed idiots- and I deal with them all the time.  My last encounter was about the election- my coworker informed me he voted 100% R- and I asked why- his answer he is tired of working his ass off while the government pays the n(^**^rs and s98cs to sit and home and do nothing.  And added- if it wasn't for ni&^ars there would be no need for welfare. And he doesn't even watch Fox. 

[mmhmm]

Nov 7, 2014 23:44:44 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 7, 2014 22:53:38 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

Frankly, Richard, the "women that live there" don't give a flip whether you're happy, or not.  Furthermore, many of them don't wish to be "seen as equals to men". They're happy with the lives they live. It's not your culture. It's theirs. You don't understand it? Big deal. Many Saudi women want to drive. I'm glad the strictures are loosening, but I've been expecting this. This is only the first, baby step. It'll take awhile. There are still many, many Saudi women who don't wish to drive. The Bedouin women have been driving their water trucks right along. We in the West need to mind our own damned business in things like this. We do not understand them.

I understand that they don't care about what I think, and my happiness for them isn't a "they should do it how I want them to" thing. It's a "they should be able to choose for themselves" thing. If subservience and being "less than a man" is working for them, and they are happy with it... AWESOME!

I understand that it's their culture. But can you, with your experience of having actually been there, say that 100% of the women that live in that culture are happy? If not, then my point has merit.

Oh, c'mon, Richard! For Pete's sake! Let's not get ludicrous! We can't say 100% of  the women that live in ANY culture are happy. Furthermore, I didn't say anything like that and you know it. What I said (in a nutshell) was:  You have no business deciding what's right and fair and wunnerful for Saudi women! You ain't one! Your point has no merit and you're only making it worse.

[MarleyKeezy78]

I dunno, I am a total bitch if I get slightly oppressed in my household. I can't imagine being oppressed to the point of not driving, voting, wearing makup if I choose or going out for a girls night (maybe two or three times a year), I may murder your ass in your sleep    I don't mind being a SAHM and wife but I don't live to serve and need some me time as well! It is one thing to be a good wife, but quite another when you are forced to be a slave.

[mmhmm]

*chuckle* Okay, I'll tell you a little bit that I know about the "oppression" of not driving. Saudi woman announces she must go shopping for the household (she runs that house with an iron glove, just in case you weren't aware). Any male not smart enough to be out wasting time where he can't be found is enlisted into service (unless there's a driver employed). He will drive her where she wishes to go (even if she wishes to go 15 places many miles apart), wait while she shops, schlep the bags, packages, and other paraphernalia out of the store and into the car at each stop, while escorting her to and from the store and seeing she's safely in the car before the next foray begins. When all's done, he gets to take her home. Then, and only then can he do what he should have done in the first place and get the F lost!

PS - He was also graciously allowed to pay for it all. 

[mmhmm]

Nov 8, 2014 2:03:06 GMT -5 MarleyKeezy78 said:

I dunno, I am a total bitch if I get slightly oppressed in my household. I can't imagine being oppressed to the point of not driving, voting, wearing makup if I choose or going out for a girls night (maybe two or three times a year), I may murder your ass in your sleep    I don't mind being a SAHM and wife but I don't live to serve and need some me time as well! It is one thing to be a good wife, but quite another when you are forced to be a slave.

In addition to my previous post, Saudi women have girls' nights as often as they like. So much of what the West believes to be true is so much hogwash. Does it happen in the more primitive, rural areas. Yep. It happens here, too.

[ArchietheDragon]

USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

[OldCoyote]

Wait a minute let's rethink this,  If we were to stop women from driving that would mean 50% fewer cars on the road,  no traffic jams, woo hoo.

What's the downside to this??  ( just don't tell my wife I wrote this)  

[zibazinski]

Nov 8, 2014 2:22:47 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

*chuckle* Okay, I'll tell you a little bit that I know about the "oppression" of not driving. Saudi woman announces she must go shopping for the household (she runs that house with an iron glove, just in case you weren't aware). Any male not smart enough to be out wasting time where he can't be found is enlisted into service (unless there's a driver employed). He will drive her where she wishes to go (even if she wishes to go 15 places many miles apart), wait while she shops, schlep the bags, packages, and other paraphernalia out of the store and into the car at each stop, while escorting her to and from the store and seeing she's safely in the car before the next foray begins. When all's done, he gets to take her home. Then, and only then can he do what he should have done in the first place and get the F lost!

PS - He was also graciously allowed to pay for it all. 

DF wanted to know what the difference was. 

[Deleted]

Always women at America had total freedom? Probably no i think. American women were so unhappy then?

I don't say it better be so but you better learn a culture little bit before you assume.

[zibazinski]

Well, doggone it, if I had someone to drive my butt all over town, carry my packages, wait on me hand and foot, pay for everything, and protect me from evil harassers, dang, that sounds pretty good. I have to drive myself, get wet or cold or hot, pay for things myself. I've been had!!

[Opti]

Nov 8, 2014 2:22:47 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

*chuckle* Okay, I'll tell you a little bit that I know about the "oppression" of not driving. Saudi woman announces she must go shopping for the household (she runs that house with an iron glove, just in case you weren't aware). Any male not smart enough to be out wasting time where he can't be found is enlisted into service (unless there's a driver employed). He will drive her where she wishes to go (even if she wishes to go 15 places many miles apart), wait while she shops, schlep the bags, packages, and other paraphernalia out of the store and into the car at each stop, while escorting her to and from the store and seeing she's safely in the car before the next foray begins. When all's done, he gets to take her home. Then, and only then can he do what he should have done in the first place and get the F lost!

PS - He was also graciously allowed to pay for it all. 

Sounds like well off Saudi women. I have read issues for women who don't have households

with male members, their husband has died. Not sure about there, but in parts of India sometimes

 widowed women get folded into other households. Since they are not in charge, their

treatment varies from good to can expect to be fed and must wearing mourning garments for

the rest of her life.

[MarleyKeezy78]

Just to clarify, I was trying to be funny! I don't know much about this particular culture but some of the things I have heard seem very backwards to me. I am open minded about things, but you have to admit seperating the men and women they way they do seems very odd to me. As to who is happier, I guess we women all have our issuse no matter where we are from. 

[mmhmm]

Nov 8, 2014 9:49:11 GMT -5 Opti said:

Nov 8, 2014 2:22:47 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

*chuckle* Okay, I'll tell you a little bit that I know about the "oppression" of not driving. Saudi woman announces she must go shopping for the household (she runs that house with an iron glove, just in case you weren't aware). Any male not smart enough to be out wasting time where he can't be found is enlisted into service (unless there's a driver employed). He will drive her where she wishes to go (even if she wishes to go 15 places many miles apart), wait while she shops, schlep the bags, packages, and other paraphernalia out of the store and into the car at each stop, while escorting her to and from the store and seeing she's safely in the car before the next foray begins. When all's done, he gets to take her home. Then, and only then can he do what he should have done in the first place and get the F lost!

PS - He was also graciously allowed to pay for it all. 

Sounds like well off Saudi women. I have read issues for women who don't have households

with male members, their husband has died. Not sure about there, but in parts of India sometimes

unmarried or widowed women get folded into other households. Since they are not in charge, their

treatment varies from good to can expect to be fed and must wearing mourning garments for

the rest of her life.

As I said, in more primitive areas things can be very different but that has been changing for years. Among educated Saudis (and there are more and more of those, including women) you don't see that and it's definitely frowned upon.

[Tennesseer]

Nov 8, 2014 2:22:47 GMT -5 mmhmm said:

*chuckle* Okay, I'll tell you a little bit that I know about the "oppression" of not driving. Saudi woman announces she must go shopping for the household (she runs that house with an iron glove, just in case you weren't aware). Any male not smart enough to be out wasting time where he can't be found is enlisted into service (unless there's a driver employed). He will drive her where she wishes to go (even if she wishes to go 15 places many miles apart), wait while she shops, schlep the bags, packages, and other paraphernalia out of the store and into the car at each stop, while escorting her to and from the store and seeing she's safely in the car before the next foray begins. When all's done, he gets to take her home. Then, and only then can he do what he should have done in the first place and get the F lost!

PS - He was also graciously allowed to pay for it all. 

Sweet! "Home, James."

[zibazinski]

I know. I read this to DF. He didn't seem nearly as excited about the idea as I was. Go figure.

[billisonboard]

My aunt quit driving. I watched how it controlled my uncle's life. I think that was the intent.