whoami
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Post by whoami on Nov 10, 2014 21:08:35 GMT -5
Circumstances according to who?
Funny thing about these stories is that they often seem to feature a poor misunderstood father and shrew of a mother....you know, the one who ended up doing all the actual work.
Im guessing if dear ole dad decided to "gift" his long forgotten offspring with his entire inheritance the make up for the fact that he chose to be a "sperm donor" and nothing more, the ones he raised would NOT be so understanding of his choosing to exclude them from present time.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 10, 2014 21:17:25 GMT -5
No one has the right to expect anything from an inheritance, regardless of circumstances.
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 10, 2014 22:39:28 GMT -5
No one has the right to expect anything from an inheritance and the person who earned the money has the right to decide how their money is distributed.
That said, the choices of the person who makes a will do send a message.
These aren't mutually exclusive ideas, IMHO. As a parent, it's absolutely my right to decide if I want to leave a single penny to my kids but I also think it would be really, really hurtful to send a last message by not being fair with how whatever I choose to leave is distributed. So it's not exactly that I think they should expect an inheritance, but I think it's reasonable that I not send a final FU or other hurtful message from the grave. An example would be it would be very reasonable if I left all of my money to charity; I earned it and that's an OK choice. But it would be really hurtful to one of the boys if I didn't leave all my money to charity and for some reason left one of them more money or an unequal share of whatever I decided to leave them.
I'm not commenting on the situation of the other poster and the dad, just noting that the idea that the two things (absolute right to decide who/what to leave in a will, the idea that unequal distributions can and do send a message) are not mutually exclusive.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 11, 2014 0:33:38 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I do not agree with you. If you knew all the circumstances you might feel the same way. Did you read that she is doing the same thing to her drug addicted son. Would you leave money to a drug addict? It's my dad's money to do with what he chooses. If he lives as long as his siblings, there will be no money and the problem will be solved. It's not mean. It is a fact of life. This is an adult child with whom he has never had a relationship. Just because he was her sperm donor, why does he have to leave her an inheritance? He isn't telling her to F off in his eyes. He is acknowledging that they have no relationship and they don't. I don't think he should leave her a dime! Don't get me wrong. But leaving her a dollar is MEAN and a horrible thing to do to a person, let alone a child. He shouldn't acknowledge her at all or mention her and wish her well. Not a giant middle finger that will be with her the rest of her life. I can't believe anyone can justify that. Don't leave her a cent. But what you are condoning is cruel.
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quince
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Post by quince on Nov 11, 2014 2:44:59 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I do not agree with you. If you knew all the circumstances you might feel the same way. Did you read that she is doing the same thing to her drug addicted son. Would you leave money to a drug addict? It's my dad's money to do with what he chooses. If he lives as long as his siblings, there will be no money and the problem will be solved. It's not mean. It is a fact of life. This is an adult child with whom he has never had a relationship. Just because he was her sperm donor, why does he have to leave her an inheritance? He isn't telling her to F off in his eyes. He is acknowledging that they have no relationship and they don't. I don't think he should leave her a dime! Don't get me wrong. But leaving her a dollar is MEAN and a horrible thing to do to a person, let alone a child. He shouldn't acknowledge her at all or mention her and wish her well. Not a giant middle finger that will be with her the rest of her life. I can't believe anyone can justify that. Don't leave her a cent. But what you are condoning is cruel. He's not doing it to be a dick. Maybe leaving .02 would be. He's doing it to show she is acknowledged in the will so it isn't contested as an oversight or something along those lines.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 11, 2014 9:35:30 GMT -5
I have and will continue to help my kids along the way of their lives. Whatever I don't spend on caring for myself is being left to two charities. If I die at a normal time, I'd be pissed if my "children" grown adults in their50's by then probably, were looking for a handout from me at that age.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Nov 11, 2014 10:24:44 GMT -5
I'm sorry but I do not agree with you. If you knew all the circumstances you might feel the same way. Did you read that she is doing the same thing to her drug addicted son. Would you leave money to a drug addict? It's my dad's money to do with what he chooses. If he lives as long as his siblings, there will be no money and the problem will be solved. It's not mean. It is a fact of life. This is an adult child with whom he has never had a relationship. Just because he was her sperm donor, why does he have to leave her an inheritance? He isn't telling her to F off in his eyes. He is acknowledging that they have no relationship and they don't. I don't think he should leave her a dime! Don't get me wrong. But leaving her a dollar is MEAN and a horrible thing to do to a person, let alone a child. He shouldn't acknowledge her at all or mention her and wish her well. Not a giant middle finger that will be with her the rest of her life. I can't believe anyone can justify that. Don't leave her a cent. But what you are condoning is cruel. My father was given similar advice by his estate attorney. I'd have to double-check but the language is something along the lines that he acknowledges his son and specifically dis-inherits him.
Both my father and brother have behaved badly towards each other. I have tried to talk to both of them but neither thinks they did anything wrong and feel no need to apologize to each other. Frankly I think they both enjoy the battle because it deflects from their part in the drama.
And it's a family tradition. Dad didn't speak to his father for years. Now my brother's two oldest children (mid 20s) do not speak to him.
Not my circus, not my monkey.
ETA: And it's a moot point. Unless my dad wins the lottery there will be nothing to inherit.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 11, 2014 10:57:56 GMT -5
It's hard to say what is fair when divying up estates. Is it fair to divide equally among the children when 1 gives up a lot to care for an aging relative, while another does a minimal amount and yet another child does absolutely nothing? I really don't know the answer.
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raeoflyte
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Post by raeoflyte on Nov 11, 2014 11:51:48 GMT -5
It's hard to say what is fair when divying up estates. Is it fair to divide equally among the children when 1 gives up a lot to care for an aging relative, while another does a minimal amount and yet another child does absolutely nothing? I really don't know the answer. If there is some substantial amount of money involved - then the care should be hired out for the most part - use up the money if needed and that is the end of it. Making a martyr of one of the offspring is not the way to go.... I understand your point, but I want my grandmother to leave more to my cousin who lived with and cared for my grandparents for a few years before going into the assisted living, and still does 90% of her laundry almost 8 years later. She saved my grandparents a lot of money by not having to hire out help, and spends her own time, energy, and the actual costs of doing their laundry. If there is money leftover I see no problem with compensating her for that.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 11, 2014 12:00:06 GMT -5
If there is some substantial amount of money involved - then the care should be hired out for the most part - use up the money if needed and that is the end of it. Making a martyr of one of the offspring is not the way to go.... I understand your point, but I want my grandmother to leave more to my cousin who lived with and cared for my grandparents for a few years before going into the assisted living, and still does 90% of her laundry almost 8 years later. She saved my grandparents a lot of money by not having to hire out help, and spends her own time, energy, and the actual costs of doing their laundry. If there is money leftover I see no problem with compensating her for that. A caretaker can save an estate 10's and even 100's of thousands of dollars. That shouldn't be ignored.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Nov 11, 2014 12:09:34 GMT -5
It's hard to say what is fair when divying up estates. Is it fair to divide equally among the children when 1 gives up a lot to care for an aging relative, while another does a minimal amount and yet another child does absolutely nothing? I really don't know the answer. I think this is a special circumstance, in which a person could easily say "In recognition of X's help during our final years, we leave them $100,000. The remainder of the estate should be divided equally between X, Y, and Z."
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 11, 2014 12:25:32 GMT -5
It's hard to say what is fair when divying up estates. Is it fair to divide equally among the children when 1 gives up a lot to care for an aging relative, while another does a minimal amount and yet another child does absolutely nothing? I really don't know the answer. I think this is a special circumstance, in which a person could easily say "In recognition of X's help during our final years, we leave them $100,000. The remainder of the estate should be divided equally between X, Y, and Z." Actually, from what I hear, it's pretty much par for the course for one child to take on most of the care-taking of a parent. I have a friend whose mother practically moved back in with her grandmother to take care of her for years. (She did move in, but kept her own home throughout.) Yet the grandmother left the house to her aunt (friend's mom's sister) who helped out only a few hours on a Saturday or Sunday. I'm hoping it was actually more fair than that (this is all I know about it), but I doubt it.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Nov 11, 2014 12:49:18 GMT -5
I think this is a special circumstance, in which a person could easily say "In recognition of X's help during our final years, we leave them $100,000. The remainder of the estate should be divided equally between X, Y, and Z." Actually, from what I hear, it's pretty much par for the course for one child to take on most of the care-taking of a parent. I have a friend whose mother practically moved back in with her grandmother to take care of her for years. (She did move in, but kept her own home throughout.) Yet the grandmother left the house to her aunt (friend's mom's sister) who helped out only a few hours on a Saturday or Sunday. I'm hoping it was actually more fair than that (this is all I know about it), but I doubt it. I meant to say that I see this as a special circumstance in which division should not be equal, not that this is a rare circumstance. I think, by default, division should be equal to all children. Even if that division is 0% and you leave all your money to the I Love Monkies fund. This would be one of the cases I would see as a special circumstance where division shouldn't be equal - existence of a minor child would be another easy one.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 11, 2014 13:05:41 GMT -5
It's hard to say what is fair when divying up estates. Is it fair to divide equally among the children when 1 gives up a lot to care for an aging relative, while another does a minimal amount and yet another child does absolutely nothing? I really don't know the answer. If there is some substantial amount of money involved - then the care should be hired out for the most part - use up the money if needed and that is the end of it. Making a martyr of one of the offspring is not the way to go.... We'll be helping DH's parents as they age. No one is being a martyr about anything. I know the difference.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Nov 11, 2014 13:22:53 GMT -5
No one has the right to expect anything from an inheritance and the person who earned the money has the right to decide how their money is distributed.
That said, the choices of the person who makes a will do send a message.
These aren't mutually exclusive ideas, IMHO. As a parent, it's absolutely my right to decide if I want to leave a single penny to my kids but I also think it would be really, really hurtful to send a last message by not being fair with how whatever I choose to leave is distributed. So it's not exactly that I think they should expect an inheritance, but I think it's reasonable that I not send a final FU or other hurtful message from the grave. An example would be it would be very reasonable if I left all of my money to charity; I earned it and that's an OK choice. But it would be really hurtful to one of the boys if I didn't leave all my money to charity and for some reason left one of them more money or an unequal share of whatever I decided to leave them.
Yes, but it's it also unreasonable to expect money even if your whole relationship was hurtful. Or we should expect people to change when they don't have a reason to? If a person has been hurtful for 50-60 years, should we really expect them to be nice from the grave? Generally, when the same behavior has been working for a person for 20, 30, 40 +years, they won't change. And, just because we have some really thoughtful posters here doesn't mean that this is everyone's experience IRL.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Nov 11, 2014 18:03:04 GMT -5
I don't think he should leave her a dime! Don't get me wrong. But leaving her a dollar is MEAN and a horrible thing to do to a person, let alone a child. He shouldn't acknowledge her at all or mention her and wish her well. Not a giant middle finger that will be with her the rest of her life. I can't believe anyone can justify that. Don't leave her a cent. But what you are condoning is cruel. He's not doing it to be a dick. Maybe leaving .02 would be. He's doing it to show she is acknowledged in the will so it isn't contested as an oversight or something along those lines. This is what his attorney said to do. The reason I told my dad was that he had already said he didn't want to leave her anything. When she said she expected 1/3 of the estate, I felt dad should know as she said if she didn't get that she would contest the will. He made an appointment with his attorney and this was the result of the discussion with his attorney. They are both at fault for not trying to reconcile, but I have tried and tried. I can't force them, especially now that he is 90. It's not going to change as any will he wrote now could be contested because he is probably not of sound mine. At least nobody did what my cousin did and go and change his mother's will while she had Ahlzheimer's so that his late brother's child got $5,000 from an estate worth millions. He did it because since his brother died, she was no longer family. When their father passed, my aunt and changed her will so the two brothers were to inherit 50-50 and the spouse if either one was deceased. My aunt tried. I will not be visiting this thread again. My dad is 90 years old and grieving the loss of my mother. Let him live his life without worrying about his will. I never should have shared here and I'm sorry I did. Some of you do not understand a toxic family and this was certainly one. I do not know everything that happened between him and his 1st wife nor between him and his daughter. Only they do, so please stop judging someone you don't even know. He is 90 years old and definitely in his last years.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 11, 2014 18:59:04 GMT -5
No judging from me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 19:40:12 GMT -5
Your first time ever? LOL
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Ombud
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Post by Ombud on Nov 12, 2014 3:37:37 GMT -5
It is OP who is trying to arrange their Trust and Will in a way that passes money to the step kids - - but DH is balking. As a result, their future financial planning is stalled/in limbo right now. She's in California so the state has a plan .... she gets it.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 12, 2014 9:08:35 GMT -5
I don't judge people who work and are trying to do the best thing tax wise as well as trying to balance fairness. The OP is trying to make up for something she has no fault in and can't fix no matter what she does. Her best bet is to care for herself and her child. At some point, she can leave it all equally or however she chooses. Those stepkids should blame the judge not her or their father.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Nov 12, 2014 13:51:02 GMT -5
I have a DN who is a drug addict. His GF and expectant babymomma is also an addict. She inherited about $125,000 from her Dad about a year ago. It is all gone. $$ used for partying and stupid crap. If the step kids are not real responsible now, I would not be handing them a pile of cash. This girl's Dad knew her history, why he did not leave her an annuity idk. I agree with the suggestions that this is your $$ and you should be left the bulk of the $$ with a token amount to the steps. My Dad passed away in Janurary, honestly I am worried that my Mom is not too lonely, that the manitenance on the house is up to date and that she has enough $$ that she call live comfortably for the rest of her life. Those steps should not only be concerned about what they get financially if their Dad passes, they should worry about taking care of their step Mom and step sister without regard to what they will get for doing so. He probably didn't for the same reason a friend of mine's dad didn't.he didn't want the other two siblings to be hassled for money. He left his money equally to all three kids. The one has blown through hers, the brothers knew she would and then come asking them for money. By the dad giving them equal shares, he prevented this. The boys were able to say we all got our share, too bad so sad. My friend was smart enough to invest his so was able to say he didn't have it any more to even "loan" her any. The other one was more blunt. Zib, from what I understand she was an only child. Sometimes there is not a right answer, I guess this is one of those times.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 12, 2014 15:13:21 GMT -5
Oh dear, well, yup, I'm at a loss about that. I suppose if I had a druggie child, they'd have been long gone out of my life. So no longer an issue. Except for that dollar bequest maybe!
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