Woman Harrassed Simply By Walking in New York

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 20:14:51 GMT -5 Bonny said:

Nov 1, 2014 20:11:21 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nope. Didn't miss the point at all. She wasn't showing that she was "obviously not in the mood". She was showing "I'm a timid, low-self esteem, sour-puss". That's a look that's bound to get MORE reaction... not less.

So in your book it's o.k. to bully timid people with low self-esteem?

No. I never said that. (interesting that you misinterpreted it that way though... kind of shows your bias).

I said it's a look that's bound to get more reaction... not less. Nowhere in that statement is approval of poor behavior.

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 20:15:20 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Nope. Didn't miss the point at all. She wasn't showing that she was "obviously not in the mood". She was showing "I'm a timid, low-self esteem, sour-puss". That's a look that's bound to get MORE reaction... not less.

This should be good, how are women supposed to look while in public?  I have two daughters, I need to know these things so I can teach them.

It's not just women. People (men AND women) should look (and be) confident and proud of who they are.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

I wasn't trying to minimalize anything, Opti.

I've said it happens - and happens far too often - the larger the city, the more often it might happen to you or me (and it has). I live in a city with a population of over 1 million.

But having this happen to a woman that many times over over a 10 hr period would not happen.

Certainly not to the extent they're trying to portray in this doctored video and not every couple of feet as she walked down the street - except possibly due to the location they chose.

This is a street (pedestrian mall) in our downtown core here. Below it is another picture of a rather seedy hotel which stood until recently, not many blocks away from the first pic.   The rooms used to be rented out by the hour, day or week. Yes, it even had people hanging around outside on the street all day as you can see. In the first pic, there's also people meandering/walking around or sitting on benches.

If the people who made the video in the OP had filmed here, which street do you think they'd have chosen to get the same result?







.

[ZaireinHD]

that's the video causing the problem

[Opti]

Nov 1, 2014 20:12:48 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 1, 2014 20:05:28 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

I think there are serious gender issues in our society that need to be addressed. I think that much of what is shown in the video as harassment trivializes the term. 

I agree with this.

So Richard what counts as harassment in your book?

[billisonboard]

Nov 1, 2014 20:22:56 GMT -5 Opti said:

...

The problem I have is almost every co-worker that has been interested in me has generally been too smart to actually directly ask for a date, because they generally won't explicitly ask unless they are assured of a yes. Those that I have gone out with briefly usually ask about lunch or something easy so it isn't actually a dating thing until both parties decide it will go there.
But because they don't explicitly ask ' do you want to go on a date and do X', the persistent ones never give up entirely. ...

So I am confused. What exactly are these people doing? If they aren't willing to ask you to go on a date due to fear of rejection, I find it hard to believe they are asking you to have sex with them. So what is it?

[ZaireinHD]

Nov 1, 2014 20:38:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

So I am confused. What exactly are these people doing? If they aren't willing to ask you to go on a date due to fear of rejection, I find it hard to believe they are asking you to have sex with them. So what is it?

got confused myself

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 20:37:46 GMT -5 Opti said:

Nov 1, 2014 20:12:48 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I agree with this.

So Richard what counts as harassment in your book?

It's not "my" book... it's the Oxford English Dictionary.

Harassment: NOUN - Aggressive pressure or intimidation

"good morning" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
"nice dress" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
"want to get a drink?" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
heck... even "nice b**bs" or "nice a$$" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)

They are all comments or opinion.

"Pressure" or "intimidation" are situations of "do {whatever} or else {bad consequence, with some form of 'will happen'}"

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 20:56:02 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 1, 2014 20:37:46 GMT -5 Opti said:

So Richard what counts as harassment in your book?

It's not "my" book... it's the Oxford English Dictionary.

Harassment: NOUN - Aggressive pressure or intimidation

"good morning" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
"nice dress" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
"want to get a drink?" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
heck... even "nice b**bs" or "nice a$$" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)

They are all comments or opinion.

"Pressure" or "intimidation" are situations of "do {whatever} or else {bad consequence, with some form of 'will happen'}"

1 a :  exhaust, fatigue b (1) :  to annoy persistently (2) :  to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct 2 :  to worry and impede by repeated raids <harassed the enemy

i.word.com/idictionary/harassment

[ZaireinHD]

Nov 1, 2014 20:56:02 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

It's not "my" book... it's the Oxford English Dictionary.

Harassment: NOUN - Aggressive pressure or intimidation

"good morning" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
"nice dress" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
"want to get a drink?" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
heck... even "nice b**bs" or "nice a$$" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)

They are all comments or opinion.

"Pressure" or "intimidation" are situations of "do {whatever} or else {bad consequence, with some form of 'will happen'}"

exactly
how are compliments harassment?
how is the second, third, fourth, and so on as it goes on and on guy to know how many times another man has said something to this attractive woman?

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 21:00:25 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Nov 1, 2014 20:56:02 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

It's not "my" book... it's the Oxford English Dictionary.

Harassment: NOUN - Aggressive pressure or intimidation

"good morning" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
"nice dress" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
"want to get a drink?" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
heck... even "nice b**bs" or "nice a$$" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)

They are all comments or opinion.

"Pressure" or "intimidation" are situations of "do {whatever} or else {bad consequence, with some form of 'will happen'}"

1 a :  exhaust, fatigue b (1) :  to annoy persistently (2) :  to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct 2 :  to worry and impede by repeated raids <harassed the enemy

i.word.com/idictionary/harassment

Yay... another word getting diluted by abuse and misuse. I'll wait until the OED screws up their definition.


ETA: Kind of like the whole harassment issue... where REAL harassment is being lumped in with this imaginary crap.

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 21:11:20 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 1, 2014 21:00:25 GMT -5 @tiki said:

1 a :  exhaust, fatigue b (1) :  to annoy persistently (2) :  to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct 2 :  to worry and impede by repeated raids <harassed the enemy

i.word.com/idictionary/harassment

Yay... another word getting diluted by abuse and misuse. I'll wait until the OED screws up their definition.

It is from a dictionary. You picked out part that you like and only posted it. Sorry you don't like the other part except its not for you to tell all us what part we better use or don't use.

[Opti]

Nov 1, 2014 20:38:54 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 1, 2014 20:22:56 GMT -5 Opti said:

...

The problem I have is almost every co-worker that has been interested in me has generally been too smart to actually directly ask for a date, because they generally won't explicitly ask unless they are assured of a yes. Those that I have gone out with briefly usually ask about lunch or something easy so it isn't actually a dating thing until both parties decide it will go there.
But because they don't explicitly ask ' do you want to go on a date and do X', the persistent ones never give up entirely. ...

So I am confused. What exactly are these people doing? If they aren't willing to ask you to go on a date due to fear of rejection, I find it hard to believe they are asking you to have sex with them. So what is it?

The tough thing is for things like these it isn't easy to be concise and simple generally.

Its usually lots of behaviors, not just one. Some are easier to deal with than others.

I'll give you a piece of an old example. The very first day I started work, a guy who was

a senior UNIX admin, intentionally slid to sit next to me with his entire thigh smack up

against mine. The table was big enough it was unnecessary and he didn't need to sit there.

Over the years he'd give me the eye and systematically talked down and got rid of any

guy who was interested in me or nice to me. On the very last day I worked due to a layoff,

he sent three people(spaced out one by one over the day) by my cube basically singing his praises. The show was all for me.

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 21:14:00 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Nov 1, 2014 21:11:20 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Yay... another word getting diluted by abuse and misuse. I'll wait until the OED screws up their definition.

It is from a dictionary. You picked out part that you like and only posted it. Sorry you don't like the other part except its not for you to tell all us what part we better use or don't use.

No. I didn't. Check my link. (here it is again, if you don't want to scroll up: Harassment - per the OED) Here's their entire entry for the word (it's formatted prettier on their web page though):

Definition of harassment in English:
harassment
Syllabification: ha·rass·ment
Pronunciation: /həˈrasmənt , ˈherəsmənt /
NOUN

Aggressive pressure or intimidation:
they face daily harassment by the police
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
SYNONYMS
Definition of harassment in:

The British & World English dictionary
The English Synonyms
The US English Synonyms

[Opti]

Nov 1, 2014 21:08:17 GMT -5 ZaireinHD said:

Nov 1, 2014 20:56:02 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

It's not "my" book... it's the Oxford English Dictionary.

Harassment: NOUN - Aggressive pressure or intimidation

"good morning" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
"nice dress" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
"want to get a drink?" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
heck... even "nice b**bs" or "nice a$$" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)

They are all comments or opinion.

"Pressure" or "intimidation" are situations of "do {whatever} or else {bad consequence, with some form of 'will happen'}"

exactly
how are compliments harassment?
how is the second, third, fourth, and so on as it goes on and on guy to know how many times another man has said something to this attractive woman?

If you actually want to pick some one up for a quality relationship

you should never use nice boobs and only use nice ass rarely.

Want to get a drink once? Is generally not a problem.

When the person you ask says No the first, second and third time. Likely problem.

When they follow that up with weekly whining about how nice it would be

if they had someone to go out drinking with them and only one woman gets

the treatment. Real Problem.

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 21:20:06 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 1, 2014 21:14:00 GMT -5 @tiki said:

It is from a dictionary. You picked out part that you like and only posted it. Sorry you don't like the other part except its not for you to tell all us what part we better use or don't use.

No. I didn't. Check my link. (here it is again, if you don't want to scroll up: Harassment - per the OED) Here's their entire entry for the word (it's formatted prettier on their web page though):

Definition of harassment in English:
harassment
Syllabification: ha·rass·ment
Pronunciation: /həˈrasmənt , ˈherəsmənt /
NOUN

Aggressive pressure or intimidation:
they face daily harassment by the police
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
SYNONYMS
Definition of harassment in:

The British & World English dictionary
The English Synonyms
The US English Synonyms

How many dictionary's you went to so you can find what you liked?

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 21:25:13 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Nov 1, 2014 21:20:06 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

No. I didn't. Check my link. (here it is again, if you don't want to scroll up: Harassment - per the OED) Here's their entire entry for the word (it's formatted prettier on their web page though):

How many dictionary's you went to so you can find what you liked?

One. I only use the OED. It's the standard source for academia. I figure if it's good enough for them... it's good enough for me.

ETA: and I wasn't looking for "what {I} liked"... I was looking for what they had.

[Deleted]

Synonyms
annoy, trouble, bother, worry, harry, disturb, devil, plague, bait, hound, torment, hassle, badger, persecute, exasperate, pester, vex, breathe down someone's neck, chivvy, give someone grief, be on your back, beleaguer

[billisonboard]

Nov 1, 2014 21:15:40 GMT -5 Opti said:

... I'll give you a piece of an old example. The very first day I started work, a guy who was a senior UNIX admin, intentionally slid to sit next to me with his entire thigh smack up against mine. The table was big enough it was unnecessary and he didn't need to sit there. Over the years he'd give me the eye and systematically talked down and got rid of any guy who was interested in me or nice to me. On the very last day I worked due to a layoff, he sent three people(spaced out one by one over the day) by my cube basically singing his praises. The show was all for me.

The touching was clearly inappropriate. Was there ever any repeating  of the touching? Having to look away when someone looks at you doesn't seem that difficult. Removing those who you have indicated harass you seems like a good thing. And you had to hear positive things about someone you dislike. 

[ZaireinHD]

women constantly change their minds constantly and have different reactions to the same situation for different guys. so attractive women will have to go through such harassment throughout the day.

example my x-girlfriend:
she has a v-neck sweater she wears to work. it doesn't show cleavage when standing up or sitting down.
she was at the file cabinet looking through the drawers, leaning over, sweater drops down. a male (unattractive to her) co-worker sees this as an opportunity to look down her sweater. she caught him and said to him to stop or she will take this to HR. I got annoyed and said to her but if it were the attractive guy from IT, this wouldn't have been a problem.

if sexy women walking down the street was being approached by a bunch of attractive, rich guys, in suits, would this still be considered harassment? 

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 21:30:34 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Synonyms
annoy, trouble, bother, worry, harry, disturb, devil, plague, bait, hound, torment, hassle, badger, persecute, exasperate, pester, vex, breathe down someone's neck, chivvy, give someone grief, be on your back, beleaguer

Nice try!

Synonyms for Harassment: persecution, intimidation, pressure, force, coercion (Source- OED)

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 21:33:58 GMT -5 ZaireinHD said:

women constantly change their minds constantly and have different reactions to the same situation for different guys. so attractive women will have to go through such harassment throughout the day.

example my x-girlfriend:
she has a v-neck sweater she wears to work. it doesn't show cleavage when standing up or sitting down.
she was at the file cabinet looking through the drawers, leaning over, sweater drops down. a male (unattractive to her) co-worker sees this as an opportunity to look down her sweater. she caught him and said to him to stop or she will take this to HR. I got annoyed and said to her but if it were the attractive guy from IT, this wouldn't have been a problem.

if sexy women walking down the street was being approached by a bunch of attractive, rich guys, in suits, would this still be considered harassment? 

For me yes

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 21:34:32 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 1, 2014 21:30:34 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Synonyms
annoy, trouble, bother, worry, harry, disturb, devil, plague, bait, hound, torment, hassle, badger, persecute, exasperate, pester, vex, breathe down someone's neck, chivvy, give someone grief, be on your back, beleaguer

Nice try!

Synonyms for Harassment: persecution, intimidation, pressure, force, coercion (Source- OED)

Sorry I am not limited to use only your special dictionary. It is not officially approved by the queen. Nice try.

[Deleted]

If one works hard enough, they can make ANYTHING synonymous with anything else. Synonyms are NOT equals, they are approximations or simply similar.

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 21:37:31 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

If one works hard enough, they can make ANYTHING synonymous with anything else. Synonyms are NOT equals, they are approximations or simply similar.

Sorry you don't like the rest of the definition. Not my problem.

[Opti]

Nov 1, 2014 21:32:17 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 1, 2014 21:15:40 GMT -5 Opti said:

... I'll give you a piece of an old example. The very first day I started work, a guy who was a senior UNIX admin, intentionally slid to sit next to me with his entire thigh smack up against mine. The table was big enough it was unnecessary and he didn't need to sit there. Over the years he'd give me the eye and systematically talked down and got rid of any guy who was interested in me or nice to me. On the very last day I worked due to a layoff, he sent three people(spaced out one by one over the day) by my cube basically singing his praises. The show was all for me.

The touching was clearly inappropriate. Was there ever any repeating  of the touching? Having to look away when someone looks at you doesn't seem that difficult. Removing those who you have indicated harass you seems like a good thing. And you had to hear positive things about someone you dislike. 

This is easier to explain than the current one. It was a professional environment

so thankfully the touching happened only once. But like a few video clips where the

guy came up with a comment to get her attention and then followed up with 'what

don't you like me' 'aren't I good enough for you' ... I also got the hate treatment from

time to time. And at least a couple times it was to show me he knew how to deep six

my job.

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 21:37:10 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Nov 1, 2014 21:34:32 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nice try!

Synonyms for Harassment: persecution, intimidation, pressure, force, coercion (Source- OED)

Sorry I am not limited to use only your special dictionary. It is not officially approved by the queen. Nice try.

Interesting you would go there... it actually IS approved by the Queen!

(The OED was originally approved by Queen Victoria)

[Deleted]

Nov 1, 2014 21:38:35 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Nov 1, 2014 21:37:31 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

If one works hard enough, they can make ANYTHING synonymous with anything else. Synonyms are NOT equals, they are approximations or simply similar.

Sorry you don't like the rest of the definition. Not my problem.

I like the real definition just fine.

[ZaireinHD]

Nov 1, 2014 21:21:27 GMT -5 Opti said:

If you actually want to pick some one up for a quality relationship

you should never use nice boobs and only use nice ass rarely.

Want to get a drink once? Is generally not a problem.

When the person you ask says No the first, second and third time. Likely problem.

When they follow that up with weekly whining about how nice it would be

if they had someone to go out drinking with them and only one woman gets

the treatment. Real Problem.

I had to tell and show my x-girlfrind this as well.
women at first will say NO. men have to keep asking and keep asking and keep asking over and over and over again, keep coming around keep going until that time when she finally gives in and will say ok.

also when a guy sees a women in the street this is his chance to say something to her. it's different if this was in a bar, nightclub.

has anyone considered saying to a woman hey nice ass, look'n good ma, actually works!
that some pick up lines actually work and the guy gets her number.
some women do respond to this.

[Bonny]

Nov 1, 2014 20:56:02 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 1, 2014 20:37:46 GMT -5 Opti said:

So Richard what counts as harassment in your book?

It's not "my" book... it's the Oxford English Dictionary.

Harassment: NOUN - Aggressive pressure or intimidation

"good morning" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
"nice dress" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
"want to get a drink?" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)
heck... even "nice b**bs" or "nice a$$" is not "pressure" or "intimidation" (aggressive or otherwise)

They are all comments or opinion.

"Pressure" or "intimidation" are situations of "do {whatever} or else {bad consequence, with some form of 'will happen'}"

So you wouldn't have any response to a perfect stranger saying to your wife or/and daughter "Nice boobs or nice ass" while you were walking next to her because that's a compliment.