Woman Harrassed Simply By Walking in New York

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Nov 5, 2014 13:56:14 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Nov 5, 2014 13:21:12 GMT -5 siralynn said:

OK. So let's take the word harassment out of it.

...

That is what I have been calling for the whole time.

As have I. I've also suggested they start to focus on the fact that this is NOT the typical day-to-day behavior of the adult male population overall. An eye-dropper full of men acting like asses in a concentrated area where this seems to be the norm and accepted, out of a male population in the US of over 158.5 MILLION.

countrymeters.info/en/United_States_of_America_(USA)

It's an unrealistic, and very unfair depiction of behavior of men in general.

Some of the women here are still clutching their pearls with outrage and saying that *men* (in the general sense) have to learn a lesson from this. Most men in this big bad world, and those who've posted here, learned the lesson when they were still young boys that behavior such as that displayed in the video is unacceptable.

The men in the video apparently didn't get that lesson taught to them - and they've become a product of their tight-knit environment by witnessing their peers or fathers or brothers being jerks.

The problem isn't as rampant everywhere as it is in this one concentrated area - and it's not typical of men in general.

[Opti]

Except for the quibble contingent, I don't think anyone was saying the video

was representative of all street harassment and had been normalized to

some quibbler standard.

It was a video done to highlight the street harassment issue. Given the method and

possibility it had a one day shooting schedule, when you hit the edit room you use

what you can use.

It was not meant to be what the quibblers whine it isn't-

it was not supposed to accurately represent all areas of the city - it was hoped to

be more representative; but apparently 125th st in Harlem had the best acoustic characteristics

coupled with filmable approaches.

I missed Harlem = ghetto. I guess I missed it because

unlike some quibblers I took my cues from buildings etc. and not the prevalence of black men.

To me ghetto doesn't mean just a place where there are lots of black people, its a place where

there are lots of poorer people whatever their color and it is usually reflected in the buildings,

streets, businesses, etc. around them. Jimmy Jazz(& Apollo Theater) and Starbucks aren't things

I expect in what I'd term ghetto.

FWIW, the actress reminds me more of a Hispanic woman or someone with Spanish ethnicity

and frankly the first name Shoshana Roberts sounds more like a black woman being mainstream

than a whitebread woman sowing her wild oats. The truth is likely in between. Unlike quibblers

I don't believe I'd be "all how cute" when confronted with the same behavior from white or

lighter skinned males.

Apparently there is an issue with street harassment and

black males both. Apparently you must be ghetto just because you live around too many black people.

[Green Eyed Lady]

So....those who don't agree with you are "quibblers" and "whiners"...yet you've said the very same thing like 9000 times in this thread.  And you aren't a "quibbler" or a "whiner"?  It's just everybody who doesn't agree?

It's quite simple.  You want this video to be taken seriously for the reasons you've outlined.  Others don't see it as a helpful or accurate tool to address what has been agreed upon almost universally to be a real problem...for the reasons they've outlined.   Still others, like me, are somewhere in the middle.  Nobody is "quibbling" or "whining" - at least not any more than the next poster.

Seems to be a great solution to 26 pages of civilized and very interesting debate.  Do some name-calling, toss in a little "you are racists" innuendo,  take your ball and go home. 

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Except for the quibble contingent, I don't think anyone saying the video
was representative of all street harassment and had been normalized to
some quibbler standard.

It was a video done to highlight the street harassment issue. Given the method and
possibility it had a one day shooting schedule, when you hit the edit room you use
what you can use.

it was not supposed to accurately represent all areas of the city - it was hoped to
be more representative; but apparently 125th st in Harlem had the best acoustic characteristics
coupled with filmable approaches.

The only harassment highlighted was the 2 men following too closely. The other people talking or cat-calling were irritating and annoying, but not threatening or harassing.

The producers didn't choose that street to focus on because of the acoustics either - it was chosen because there's a high concentration of men hanging around outside being a nuisance. They weren't out there working - doing street maintenance or washing windows, or directing traffic, or street vending, etc They were just out there loitering and bothering passers-by.

They may have even been bothering male passers-by - but the video only focuses on this one lady's journey.

[Opti]

Oct 30, 2014 16:11:59 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I think what bothers me is that how little the men here seem to even realize or care that they are being asses and actually are scary. Are we still raising men to act like this and think it's okay? I would have loved for a guy to have gone up to some of these sick punks and actually talked to them about their behavior and what it says about them and what it says to a woman.

What bothers me most is I don't think there's been much learning on any side

or view of the issue. I don't expect men necessarily to do anything about it nor

women necessarily. For me its making things more civil and I hope that  these

organizations try to find root causes so they are more successful.

Given the extreme high level of quibbling its going to been awhile for things to

percolate and change. And some of it is likely cultural. I remember being in shock

from that video posted possibly on EE of women in a knock down drag out fight

over some issue with kindergartner graduation. I would not have ever expected

a brawl like that to break out, but seeing the video enlightened me to the fact that

it had happened, which means it may happen again or be more common than I think.

[Opti]

Nov 5, 2014 15:58:28 GMT -5 Green Eyed Lady said:

So....those who don't agree with you are "quibblers" and "whiners"...yet you've said the very same thing like 9000 times in this thread.  And you aren't a "quibbler" or a "whiner"?  It's just everybody who doesn't agree?

It's quite simple.  You want this video to be taken seriously for the reasons you've outlined.  Others don't see it as a helpful or accurate tool to address what has been agreed upon almost universally to be a real problem...for the reasons they've outlined.   Still others, like me, are somewhere in the middle.  Nobody is "quibbling" or "whining" - at least not any more than the next poster.

Seems to be a great solution to 26 pages of civilized and very interesting debate.  Do some name-calling, toss in a little "you are racists" innuendo,  take your ball and go home. 

I didn't want to post any names so I chose quibbler to denote someone who keeps

saying this is not a representative video...

this is not filmed everywhere ...

I'm tired of it.

Its like And...?

I didn't say anyone was racist either(you went there). So please be accurate and less rude in the future.

I said I now understand why some here and other people online I've read

jumped to the ghetto conclusion. I do think some posters are stronger and more vocal

in their opinions than others. I'm not seeing universal agreement at all. I'm seeing a spectrum

and its unclear to me if some posters are even willing to concede stalking behavior be called

street harassment.

Frankly I'm missing the universal agreement there is a problem.

What I am reading is a huge, why do anything, tally ho status quo.

[Opti]

If there is an ball left in the EE closet, I should take it home and leave.

I don't think my posting on this thread has been that helpful except to those who

may have found it supportive.

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Nov 5, 2014 16:45:09 GMT -5 Opti said:

Oct 30, 2014 16:11:59 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

I think what bothers me is that how little the men here seem to even realize or care that they are being asses and actually are scary. Are we still raising men to act like this and think it's okay? I would have loved for a guy to have gone up to some of these sick punks and actually talked to them about their behavior and what it says about them and what it says to a woman.

What bothers me most is I don't think there's been much learning on any side or view of the issue. I don't expect men necessarily to do anything about it nor women necessarily. For me its making things more civil and I hope that  these organizations try to find root causes so they are more successful.[/p

Given the extreme high level of quibbling its going to been awhile for things to percolate and change.

I've stated repeatedly (re: the first bolded text above), that none of the other men on that street - their family members, friends or peers bothered to tell the punks who were acting like punks, that they were being jerks and to knock it off. Neither did any of the few women in the background who happened to be out there.


This is why I said they've become a product of their own environment, because apparently people on that street behave this way all the time - from the number of things I saw going on.

"We" aren't still raising men to act like this. Their parents probably didn't intentionally raise them to act like this either. They've learned from their peers - and followed suit - possibly wanting to be "one of the crowd".

What extreme level of quibbling? If someone disagrees with you or sees what's going on in a different light, we're quibblers, or being difficult because we don't agree with you and what you consider to be harassment and threats? Someone here (can't remember who - might have been you, Opti, and I'm not going to re-read nearly 30 pages to find it), said she'd been threatened with bodily harm.

The only place in the link where there was even a mention of harm or rape was was in the comments section - and we don't even know if that's an accurate statement, since we've only seen 2 minutes of a 600 minute taping. We also don't know for sure she was "threatened or harassed" over 100 times either - because some of you are saying that a mere "hello" from a stranger in passing is considered threatening and intimidating to you, and the majority of us are seeing a "hello" or "god bless you" in passing as just what it is - a greeting.

I'm not going to base my opinion about the behavior of society, or more importantly, the behavior of male society, on a short video that only used 2 minutes of 600, and chose the little parts they felt would get a stronger reaction - and there were only 2 instances where the woman could have *possibly* met with potential danger - the two who'd trailed closely and being persistent to get her attention.

Do I think that this example and experiment is going to help bring the right awareness to, or help solve the actual issue?

No because it's not even close to accurate since they're trying to portray the behavior of these men as being the typical behavior of society (or more specifically, men) overall.

And that couldn't be farther from the truth.

[Deleted]

Nov 5, 2014 17:01:09 GMT -5 Opti said:

If there is an ball left in the EE closet, I should take it home and leave.

I don't think my posting on this thread has been that helpful except to those who

may have found it supportive.

What does it mean EE closet?

[wyouser]

I have to hand it to New York City. Another world entirely from here in the boondocks. Filming 10 hours of walking in the city? We have 26 pages of comments in just 7 days? Wow! Do that here and one would have a 9 hours 45 minutes recording of passing coal trains intermixed with the sounds of crickets. The only catcalls would come from real cats. And, the filmmaker would  find himself about 118 streets shy of ever reach a 125th street. The biggest harassment threat would come from the 12 to 1500 deer who wisely move into town during hunting season. (the bucks get a tad aggressive if a person is wandering about near the groups of does) A word of caution to any filmaker, check you shoes before getting back into the car. Parks here are heavily frequented not only by deer but flocks of Canadian geese who do not carry their own pooper scoopers

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Did you view the video wyouser? I'd be interested in reading what you think about it, from another males point of view. Were the comments such as hello, god bless, or god bless Miami threatening or harassment? Other than the 2 rather creepy pedestrian tailgaters, a few men commented to her in passing and continued on their way or said something (which wasn't even close to being a threat or harassment) as they stood outside a building she walked by. None of them approached her either.

Some of the women here are saying it's up to the men to correct other men, or that men should be the ones to change. None of them volunteered to say that they'd be willing to change and do their part proactively by telling off an ignorant boor if they said something inappropriate in passing, or if someone started to encroach too far into their personal space.

And then they complain that the problem continues. Do they expect everyone else to solve all the things they think are wrong or inappropriate? Most of them said they wouldn't have spoken to any of those men or told them to back off if in a similar situation.

How does that help get anything solved or changed?

Posting about it on a message board isn't going to reach the ones who really need the lesson. You *might* enlighten a few people here who possibly DO need the enlightenment, but it doesn't fix the overall problem or encounters they face every day. They have to take a stand to do that themselves when interacting or facing situations such as this.

[billisonboard]

Nov 5, 2014 19:31:36 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

...

Some of the women here are saying it's up to the men to correct other men, or that men should be the ones to change. None of them volunteered to say that they'd be willing to change and do their part proactively by telling off an ignorant boor if they said something inappropriate in passing, or if someone started to encroach too far into their personal space.

...

How about women increasing their willingness to initiate relationship contacts (and face the possibility of rejection) so that males do not feel it is all on them?  This also includes responsibility for pushing relationships to greater intimacy levels. 

[Deleted]

Nov 5, 2014 7:49:58 GMT -5 Shooby said:

You keep couching this as if this is only about someone saying "Hi" when she was in fact followed closely by some idiot along with other stupid random comments.

Wrong. We keep saying that the fact that only showed one... out of TEN hours of tape... is very telling that it's NOT the problem it's being made out to be.

Oh... and what he did wasn't harassment. Creepy, yes. Harassment, no.

[Deleted]

Woman Drug To Car, Police Looking For Her Abductor.

notmsnmoney.proboards.com/thread/42222/woman-drug-police-looking-abductor

Possibly he is a "commenter" and he liked to give her a "friendly greeting"

[billisonboard]

Nov 5, 2014 20:08:56 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Woman Drug To Car, Police Looking For Her Abductor.

notmsnmoney.proboards.com/thread/42222/woman-drug-police-looking-abductor

Possibly he is a "commenter" and he liked to give her a "friendly greeting"

Totally irrelevant to this thread.

[Deleted]

Nov 5, 2014 12:16:02 GMT -5 zibazinski said:

Oh, well, I guess that makes you right and all of us wrong. How special. Have a nice day. Btw, I guess you should never walk in Harlem. Funny, that's been touted as an up and coming area. Guess not. Really? She walked the same street for 10 hours? I call BS on that. The fact that more people see it for what it is as opposed to those trying to excuse it in one fashio or another doesn't get away from the fact that there's a real problem but burying head in sand and pretending these creeps are just being friendly makes it okay to some people.

In this particular thread anyway more people see it as harassment... which it most definitely isn't... so... was the bolded a mistake... or a lie?

[Deleted]

I wonder... where's the security camera footage of "female stalker, follows man around New York for 10 hours"...



I mean... it was evil for one guy to do it to a woman for a few minutes... how much MORE evil to follow someone for 10 hours! 

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

Nov 5, 2014 20:21:55 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

I wonder... where's the security camera footage of "female stalker, follows man around New York for 10 hours"...

That's precisely what I said in one of my previous posts, @richardintn - she followed (in very close proximity) the man who had the camera in his backpack. Nobody except you and me have brought up the fact that she was trailing after HIM for a full 10 hours as opposed to the men who happened to make a comment in passing or got into her space for a few minutes.

If he wasn't her co-assistant in the produotion of the video, do you think he would not have found it odd that she was dogging closely behind him up and down every street he walked?

In the full 10 hours there were only two men who tailed after her, and too closely, just to get her attention with their persistence for a response - which she rebuked by ignoring them. They didn't follow HER for 10 hours and they didn't say or do anything to imply they meant her any harm.

They were creepy just by getting into her personal space too closely, and their continued demands for attention - and I've already agreed with that.

I also said that they probably would have backed-off if she'd let them know determinedly that she was not interested either with words or facial language. She didn't speed up her pace to create more distance, and just continued ambling along. If this had been a very secluded area, with no street traffic, it would be a different matter - but the street was packed with people. She could speak up loudly and say to back off but she didn't. She could have stepped aside a bit and said something like "you seem to be in a hurry - I must be blocking your way - please pass" while giving him a determined stare-down for him to not say anything more and to keep walking.

Some of the women here will say that's inviting danger. It's more dangerous to allow the man to stay behind you, where you can't see what he may or may not do next.

She also could have turned around and started walking in the direction she just came from. He would have no excuse to do the same.

[Virgil Showlion]

Oh she's the type of gal who likes to roam around
Where there's assin' and harrassin', well you know that she'll be found
They beg 'er and they flatter, they holler and they sing
They praise 'er, it don't matter, she don't ever say a thing

They her the wanderer
The guys 'll come on to her,
As she goes around, around, around, around...

Oh well, there's Creepy on her left side and there's Dopey on her right
And Sleazy's in the background kind of trailin' like a kite
And when they ask her which one she loves the best
She stares blankly ahead so now they're starin' at her chest

'Cause she's the wanderer
And New York is fond of her,
as she goes around, around, around...

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

[siralynn]

Nov 5, 2014 19:31:36 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

 god bless Miami

BTW, since you've repeated "god bless Miami" a couple of times, I just wanted to point out that the actual comment was "god bless you, mami" with mami being Spanish slang for "sexy" or "baby"

[Deleted]

Nov 5, 2014 22:52:42 GMT -5 siralynn said:

Nov 5, 2014 19:31:36 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

 god bless Miami

BTW, since you've repeated "god bless Miami" a couple of times, I just wanted to point out that the actual comment was "god bless you, mami" with mami being Spanish slang for "sexy" or "baby"

So now a blessing to her instead of the City of Miami is a bad thing?

Wow...

[Deleted]

Nov 5, 2014 22:58:29 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 5, 2014 22:52:42 GMT -5 siralynn said:

BTW, since you've repeated "god bless Miami" a couple of times, I just wanted to point out that the actual comment was "god bless you, mami" with mami being Spanish slang for "sexy" or "baby"

So now a blessing to her instead of the City of Miami is a bad thing?

Wow...

Your for real or else you are trolling us??

[Deleted]

Nov 5, 2014 23:00:02 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Nov 5, 2014 22:58:29 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

So now a blessing to her instead of the City of Miami is a bad thing?

Wow...

Your for real or else you are trolling us??

Quite "for real".

[Deleted]

Nov 5, 2014 23:01:41 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 5, 2014 23:00:02 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Your for real or else you are trolling us??

Quite "for real".

Truly you thought it is a blessing to say sexy and baby to a woman you donno?

Probably I found out whats the problem.

[Deleted]

Nov 5, 2014 23:04:21 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Nov 5, 2014 23:01:41 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Quite "for real".

Truly you thought it is a blessing to say sexy and baby to a woman you donno?

Probably I found out whats the problem.

What was said was "God Bless you mami"... not baby... not sexy... but mami.

I found the problem a long time ago in this thread... women that ignore reality.

[Deleted]

Nov 5, 2014 23:12:58 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 5, 2014 23:04:21 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Truly you thought it is a blessing to say sexy and baby to a woman you donno?

Probably I found out whats the problem.

What was said was "God Bless you mami"... not baby... not sexy... but mami.

I found the problem a long time ago in this thread... women that ignore reality.

Nov 5, 2014 22:52:42 GMT -5 siralynn said:

Nov 5, 2014 19:31:36 GMT -5 ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ said:

 god bless Miami

BTW, since you've repeated "god bless Miami" a couple of times, I just wanted to point out that the actual comment was "god bless you, mami" with mami being Spanish slang for "sexy" or "baby"

If you thought is is a blessing its gonna explain ALL your posts.

Murkha is "fool" word in Bengali. If I call you murkha its same as I call you fool. If you are upset because I called you fool I can say I didn't call you fool I called you murkha? Please stop playing child games.

It is more spin from you but it told how is your mind.

[Deleted]

Nov 5, 2014 23:17:12 GMT -5 @tiki said:

Nov 5, 2014 23:12:58 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

What was said was "God Bless you mami"... not baby... not sexy... but mami.

I found the problem a long time ago in this thread... women that ignore reality.

Nov 5, 2014 22:52:42 GMT -5 siralynn said:

BTW, since you've repeated "god bless Miami" a couple of times, I just wanted to point out that the actual comment was "god bless you, mami" with mami being Spanish slang for "sexy" or "baby"

If you thought is is a blessing its gonna explain ALL your posts.

It is more spin from you but it told how is your mind.

Actually all I did was ignore the biased misrepresentation of "mami".

It's actually slang for any female (including but not limited to the "sexy" ones), because females can be mommies. Just like "papi" is slang for any male (because males can be pappies).


ETA: Not sure how you edited this part in or if it just didn't appear previously... but... I'll comment on it below

Murkha is "fool" word in Bengali. If I call you murkha its same as I call you fool. If you are upset because I called you fool I can say I didn't call you fool I called you murkha? Please stop playing child games.

Proper use of a different language word is much different than improper use of it.

If I were to call you Murkha when I actually meant to call you Nari, THEN you MIGHT have a point... however since "mami" can mean ANY female... your point is moot.

[Deleted]

Nov 5, 2014 23:26:11 GMT -5 @richardintn said:

Nov 5, 2014 23:17:12 GMT -5 @tiki said:

If you thought is is a blessing its gonna explain ALL your posts.

It is more spin from you but it told how is your mind.

Actually all I did was ignore the biased misrepresentation of "mami".

It's actually slang for any female (including but not limited to the "sexy" ones), because females can be mommies. Just like "papi" is slang for any male (because males can be pappies).

Mamí, Is spanish slang for baby, sexy,
Other names used ... Chula, Mamacita, Mamita, Nena etc.

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Mami

[ՏՇԾԵԵʅՏɧ_LԹՏՏʅҼ]

siralynn, I live in a large city. I've had random men I don't know say things to me in passing like "Hey Babe, how's it hangin'?" or a simple Good Morning, or "Lookin' Good".

Those aren't threats or harassment.

"God Bless Miami" isn't a threat or intimidating or harassment either. And the word "Miami" isn't reflecting on her being "sexy" or  someone's "baby" so I don't know why you even brought that into the discussion.